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[ResilientBanana]

Do I believe the Switch 2 will be a leap over switch? Yes. Will it have enough power to produce visuals that the PS4 or PS4 Pro will be capable of? No. Simply because it most likely won’t have the bandwidth to be as great.

I reasonably think it will be more like the Xbox One or lower. If anyone thinks it will compete with the ROG Ally, you’ll be sorely be disappointed. Nintendo won’t want their machine to cost $600-$700. If anything the Steam Deck will be the closest competitor. But AMD SOCs and nVDIA SOCs are at different price points. So, sub Steam Deck power makes sense.

 

[CrustyBritches]

The $700 ASUS Ally with a “customized” version of AMD latest 7840U running at 25-30W just barely hits PS4 performance(1080p/30fps+) vs the uncapped version of God of War. 15W mode puts into the 25-29fps range and that’s not even in the more intense areas. I wouldn’t be surprised if Nintendo shoots for even lower power consumption than 15W in handheld mode. I don’t expect them to use as good cooling as the Ally, and I’d be surprised if they brought 7840U performance to the table even in “docked” mode.

 

[zeldaring]

What if.... What if Covid 2 is also released at launch ?

lol great the fed can do more money printing and give us more wonderful inflation.

 

[Ceallach]

This is ridiculous. Nintendo are gonna use what nVidia will be able to supply at the price point they want. Nintendo aren't in the business of making fantastic hardware.

 

[tkscz]

This is ridiculous. Nintendo are gonna use what nVidia will be able to supply at the price point they want. Nintendo aren't in the business of making fantastic hardware.

Well, they didn't make it, nvidia did.

 

[Klosshufvud]

The $700 ASUS Ally with a “customized” version of AMD latest 7840U running at 25-30W just barely hits PS4 performance(1080p/30fps+) vs the uncapped version of God of War. 15W mode puts into the 25-29fps range and that’s not even in the more intense areas. I wouldn’t be surprised if Nintendo shoots for even lower power consumption than 15W in handheld mode. I don’t expect them to use as good cooling as the Ally, and I’d be surprised if they brought 7840U performance to the table even in “docked” mode.

Exactly. High-end handheld PCs using cutting-edge gaming chips and sold for $700-1000 barely outperform PS4. And these are power hungry devices, with huge batteries and big form factor. Nintendo will opt for smaller form factor, smaller battery, smaller fans etc etc. I believe Switch had like a 7W TDP in handheld mode. If Switch 2 has a similar TDP, then you can kiss "PS4 Pro" performance goodbye. And no, DLSS is not a magic wand solution. It's still a resource intensive processing solution and IMO also produces ton of motion artifacts that some people can't stand. Nintendo platform specific design will always mean their games punch way above their weights but you can't escape basic physics and economics. Nintendo is not the business of benchmarks and high-end hardware. They're in the business of selling Animal Crossing and Mario. Get realistic, folks.

 

[Kataploom]

Exactly. High-end handheld PCs using cutting-edge gaming chips and sold for $700-1000 barely outperform PS4. And these are power hungry devices, with huge batteries and big form factor. Nintendo will opt for smaller form factor, smaller battery, smaller fans etc etc. I believe Switch had like a 7W TDP in handheld mode. If Switch 2 has a similar TDP, then you can kiss "PS4 Pro" performance goodbye. And no, DLSS is not a magic wand solution. It's still a resource intensive processing solution and IMO also produces ton of motion artifacts that some people can't stand. Nintendo platform specific design will always mean their games punch way above their weights but you can't escape basic physics and economics. Nintendo is not the business of benchmarks and high-end hardware. They're in the business of selling Animal Crossing and Mario. Get realistic, folks.

While I mostly agree on the price/performance part, I'll add that none of those competitor have the economy of scales and possibly not even the same access to deals or suppliers that Nintendo have, that could play an big factor. Also Nintendo might be able to accept a small loss for the first few months this time around, they're not strangers to loss leading and Switch alone have made enough money to afford risks which is a luxury they didn't have after Wii U

 

[frahko]

The rumors say the chip is capable of ray tracing, if Nintendo pulls this off, they'll be selling brand new Mario 64 Raytracing Edition for 49 bucks and you will buy it


Switch 2 won't be capable of that maybe...

 

[Buggy Loop]

I believe Switch had like a 7W TDP in handheld mode. If Switch 2 has a similar TDP, then you can kiss "PS4 Pro" performance goodbye. And no, DLSS is not a magic wand solution.

Handheld mode TDP and then going for "kiss PS4 pro" performance goodbye. PS4 for handheld, PS4 pro for docked. It's not same TDP.

DLSS is a magic wand solution



It should not even resolve from 540p yet it does. Its perfect for handheld.

ROG ally sometimes even bottoms out near Steam deck performances even with the much newer chipset because its software limited, even Valve manages that better with steam OS than slapping windows on a ROG ally. That's a far fucking cry from a tailored made API/sofware for the chipset ala NVN.
Take a PS4 and slap windows on it, see how God of War runs on it. Oh its shit too? Without Sony's metal API? (you can't but i hope you get the idea)

PS3 2006 vs Switch 2017
PS4 2013 vs Switch 2 2024-25

Do peoples even have the fucking notion of time? Is anyone doubting that Switch is more powerful than a PS3? Why is this so shocking to peoples. Especially since PS4 was kneecap'd by Jaguar.

 

[mrcroket]

Exactly. High-end handheld PCs using cutting-edge gaming chips and sold for $700-1000 barely outperform PS4. And these are power hungry devices, with huge batteries and big form factor. Nintendo will opt for smaller form factor, smaller battery, smaller fans etc etc. I believe Switch had like a 7W TDP in handheld mode. If Switch 2 has a similar TDP, then you can kiss "PS4 Pro" performance goodbye. And no, DLSS is not a magic wand solution. It's still a resource intensive processing solution and IMO also produces ton of motion artifacts that some people can't stand. Nintendo platform specific design will always mean their games punch way above their weights but you can't escape basic physics and economics. Nintendo is not the business of benchmarks and high-end hardware. They're in the business of selling Animal Crossing and Mario. Get realistic, folks.

The most power hungry part is the cpu of these "PC consoles". The nvidia chip use ARM cpu and PS4 gpu power is archived right now by the lastest mobile chipsets from qualcomm and surpases by large for the lastest apple mobile chipsets. The AMD gpu tech for mobile devices was always worse than nvidia's one.

And the tegra x1 used on switch was (gpu side) more powerful that all smartphones and tablets launched of their era (except tegra based), repeat, GPU side.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

I'll be shocked if surpass the Steam Deck in raw performance. By the virtue to be a console and not a computer enveloped as a portable design, I believe the output will be on par or better than the Deck, specially because they will have access to the DLSS. My fear is the RAM config, Nintendo has a history of not putting enough RAM on their consoles and here it can cripple the console support from third parties.
Ideally 16Gb should be the minimum, but knowing Nintendo, 8Gb is more likely.

 

[Woopah]

3DS was a generational leap over DS and Switch was a generational leap over 3DS. I expect a similar leap.

 

[onnextflix5]

Half of this looks completely made up, sad nvidia has no apu designed around 5nm or 3nm, as they have left mobile apu business a while ago. who knows what Nintendo will end up with, but it will underperform compared to its competitors no doubt.

 

[lughnasadh123]

Now you're playing with power!

Cost effective current gen Nintendo power!

 

[Klosshufvud]

While I mostly agree on the price/performance part, I'll add that none of those competitor have the economy of scales and possibly not even the same access to deals or suppliers that Nintendo have, that could play an big factor. Also Nintendo might be able to accept a small loss for the first few months this time around, they're not strangers to loss leading and Switch alone have made enough money to afford risks which is a luxury they didn't have after Wii U

Nintendo chose to charge like $100 more for Switch than Nvidia did for Shield despite having the same chip with some Joy Cons attached.

The most power hungry part is the cpu of these "PC consoles". The nvidia chip use ARM cpu and PS4 gpu power is archived right now by the lastest mobile chipsets from qualcomm and surpases by large for the lastest apple mobile chipsets. The AMD gpu tech for mobile devices was always worse than nvidia's one.

And the tegra x1 used on switch was (gpu side) more powerful that all smartphones and tablets launched of their era (except tegra based), repeat, GPU side.

Pretty sure the most power hungry part of these PC handhelds is the GPU. I know for Deck atleast, the GPU consumes 10W of the 15W SoC budget. What Nvidia mobile GPU can compete with the latest RDNA3 chips that AMD has? Nvidia has been pretty AWOL on this front for a while. Even Samsung switched to RDNA2 for its internal GPU a while ago.

The Tegra X1 was the most powerful, a decade ago, long before all these massive advancements in low wattage processing.

 

[Boy bawang]

All I'm saying is that I don't believe that whatever chip ends up in the next Switch, will have PS4 pro performance, or DLSS. Regardless of hacks, leaks and what Nvidia have been working on.

Then your opinion is not rooted in anything tangible. That's fine, we still have religions in 2023 after all.

 

[Buggy Loop]

All I'm saying is that I don't believe that whatever chip ends up in the next Switch, will have PS4 pro performance, or DLSS. Regardless of hacks, leaks and what Nvidia have been working on.

No DLSS? An Nvidia chip to be released in 2024~25 without DLSS??

Why do peoples love to make quotes that will age like milk

That’s THE most predictable thing to happen out of any rumours

 

[iHaunter]

a ps4 pro power level with dlss3 would be nuts

How would that be nuts?

 

[TLZ]

The series s is not constrained by a portable battery

Of course. But it'll still be 4 years old by the time the Switch launches. And the "PS4 pro" part isn't when portable running on battery anyway, it's when Switch 2 is docked so it's fine.

When portable it's "PS4" power levels, which the Steam Deck already does since Feb 2002, for $399. And by the time Switch 2 releases, it'll be 2.5 years old.

So these power levels aren't farfetched imo. They should be expected.

 

[existensmaximum]

Then your opinion is not rooted in anything tangible. That's fine, we still have religions in 2023 after all.

Cute I feel so hot after your sick burn!

I'm happy for you that you can believe everything you read on the Internet. My opinion is rooted in 30 years of experience with Nintendo, their philosophy and business decisions. Whatever dude, we'll see.

 

[ckaneo]

Of course. But it'll still be 4 years old by the time the Switch launches. And the "PS4 pro" part isn't when portable running on battery anyway, it's when Switch 2 is docked so it's fine.

When portable it's "PS4" power levels, which the Steam Deck already does since Feb 2002, for $399. And by the time Switch 2 releases, it'll be 2.5 years old.

So these power levels aren't farfetched imo. They should be expected.

Maybe I'm mistaken but Nintendo didn't attempt to let the portable and docked mode have vastly different targets and I don't think they will do so here.

 

[TLZ]

Maybe I'm mistaken but Nintendo didn't attempt to let the portable and docked mode have vastly different targets and I don't think they will do so here.

If I'm not mistaken, Switch portable runs at 157gflops (307mhz) and docked at 393 GFLOPS (768mhz). So docked runs at 2.5x portable. If Switch 2 runs the same way, say 1.6tf portable, then 2.5x that is 4tf. See what I mean? Even at 2x it's still doing 3.2tf.

 

[Buggy Loop]

If I'm not mistaken, Switch portable runs at 157gflops (307mhz) and docked at 393 GFLOPS (768mhz). So docked runs at 2.5x portable. If Switch 2 runs the same way, say 1.6tf portable, then 2.5x that is 4tf. See what I mean? Even at 2x it's still doing 3.2tf.

Get out of there with that logic, pulease

 

[Silver Wattle]

It's perfectly reasonable. 5nm node will be over 4 years old when Switch 2 ships (first commercial chip was Apple A14 back in 2020). Apple will be more or less fully transitioned to 3nm by fall of 2024 and 3nm CPUs/GPUs will be either released or right around the corner.

The thing you are not considering is, what are the future die shrink options? 3nm is a half node improvement at best, 2nm is another half node and it's not even being used now.

In 2-3 years time Nintendo NEEDS to die shrink for either revenue increase or to cut prices, and at most they can jump to 3nm.

5nm(4nm)>3nm will not give Nintendo the die shrink they typically go for.

So no, they won't be using 4nm, but I would love to be proved wrong.

 

[Trilobit]

So just for fun and dreaming I looked up some of the best looking PS4 games to dream about what the next 3D Mario or Zelda could look like:

 

[Gamer79]

One of those pie-in-the-sky threads.

First of all, XB1s (1.2 fp32 TF) is more along what anyone should expect from the SWitch 2. The steam deck doesn't even have PS4 TF. And there is no amount of docking that is going to take a handheld from 1.2TF all the way up to 4TF. Shit just doesn't that way.

A more realistic optimistic expectation would be 1.2TF (XB1s) in handheld mode and 1.8TF (PS4 perf) in docked mode.

Just thinking outside the box here. Couldn't Nintendo add another SOC and RAM to the dock? Something like an old sli setup?

 

[Deerock71]

Lol, not gonna happen.

Famous last words.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

bloodborne for switch 2 thread when?

 

[TLZ]

Get out of there with that logic, pulease

 

[Beechos]

Switch 2 will be lucky if it outperforms the steamdeck.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Also to note here, TSMC 4N is Nvidia's custom node. It's not really a 4nm node per say, its 5nm+ process. Same confusion happened with Ada. TSMC's next step after 5nm lithography is 3nm. The node names are a mess.

Even Nvidia had to clarify this after the media ran with the story that it's 4nm.

Nvidia clarifies: The TSMC 4N used by the RTX 40 GPU is a 5nm process - TechGoing

According to Hong Kong media HKEPC, Nvidia clarified today that the RTX 40 GPU uses TSMC’s 4N 5nm process, not the 4nm process, due to a large number of media writing errors. According to reports, the Nvidia RTX 40 GPU is based on the 5nm TSMC 4N process, the N in “4N” should stand for […]

www.techgoing.com

Media didn't listen.

It's basically a slightly improved 2020 node. Just mentioning this because this forum isn't really tech-savy, as seen already in posts in this thread, users running with the idea that 4nm TSMC is some expensive withcraft and Nintendo wouldn't afford it. Its nothing special. By 2024 standards, picking that node is like picking 7nm process today.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Just thinking outside the box here. Couldn't Nintendo add another SOC and RAM to the dock? Something like an old sli setup?

Technically, it's possible. even brilliant. but, you know... Nintendo.

 

[Raploz]

Since we're talking about 2 year old leaks let's post the update:



1024 Cuda cores seems more likely for Switch 2, though kopite didn't seem sure about that.

 

[alucard0712_rus]

1024 Cuda cores seems more likely for Switch 2, though kopite didn't seem sure about that.

Man. Even 512 is too much. Look at Tegra wiki. There are NO suitable chips except Tegra X2 if we assume that Switch Too will have backwards compatibility. And X2 have dual operating mode - 7.5 and 15w. It's perfect for handheld/docked mode. Especially if main bottleneck was always memory bandwidth. Look at OC'ed Switch OLED - it have up to 5x performance of normal Switch and can run EVERY Switch game at 720p and 60fps without DRS in handheld mode. By every I mean TOTK, Doom, Xenoblade 2,3, Bioshock Collection etc (more demanding '30'fps-only games). I really meant EVERY game.

Switch OLED IS the Switch PRO but instead of rising gpu/cpu clocks and memory speed Nintendo decided to ensure console parity and just underclocked Mariko even more to add a battery life. Not so many people will see improved graphics but every one will notice and benefit from larger battery life.

 

[sinnergy]

Man. Even 512 is too much. Look at Tegra wiki. There are NO suitable chips except Tegra X2 if we assume that Switch Too will have backwards compatibility. And X2 have dual operating mode - 7.5 and 15w. It's perfect for handheld/docked mode. Especially if main bottleneck was always memory bandwidth. Look at OC'ed Switch OLED - it have up to 5x performance of normal Switch and can run EVERY Switch game at 720p and 60fps without DRS in handheld mode. By every I mean TOTK, Doom, Xenoblade 2,3, Bioshock Collection etc (more demanding '30'fps-only games). I really meant EVERY game.

Switch OLED IS the Switch PRO but instead of rising gpu/cpu clocks and memory speed Nintendo decided to ensure console parity and just underclocked Mariko even more to add a battery life. Not so many people will see improved graphics but every one will notice and benefit from larger battery life.

This. They will probably benefit from a node shrink enormously, they could even put a tegra 1 in but it’s probably tegra 2.

 

[Forth]

I'm just glad that this confirms they're going with a hybrid system again.
Imagine how many games from the third parties this opens up for Nintendo?
Games like RDR2 etc.

 

[sinnergy]

I'm just glad that this confirms they're going with a hybrid system again.
Imagine how many games from the third parties this opens up for Nintendo?
Games like RDR2 etc.

Why wouldn’t they , imo this is a design for the coming 15 years, maybe even longer

 

[REDRZA MWS]

Do you want me to go get a couple of action figures you can bash together?

This is that weird fanboyism that plagues these boards. What the duck does that even mean? Im a grown ass man. Worked my whole life and have a great pension. Id love to buy a current power level level Nintendo home console , I grew up with them. You are on the other hand get called out how “well” Nintendo is doing a do bring Sony up, and you talk about smashing toys together? Psychotherapy and meds bro. Just some advice.

 

[Reallink]

Also to note here, TSMC 4N is Nvidia's custom node. It's not really a 4nm node per say, its 5nm+ process. Same confusion happened with Ada. TSMC's next step after 5nm lithography is 3nm. The node names are a mess.

Even Nvidia had to clarify this after the media ran with the story that it's 4nm.

Nvidia clarifies: The TSMC 4N used by the RTX 40 GPU is a 5nm process - TechGoing

According to Hong Kong media HKEPC, Nvidia clarified today that the RTX 40 GPU uses TSMC’s 4N 5nm process, not the 4nm process, due to a large number of media writing errors. According to reports, the Nvidia RTX 40 GPU is based on the 5nm TSMC 4N process, the N in “4N” should stand for […]

www.techgoing.com

Media didn't listen.

It's basically a slightly improved 2020 node. Just mentioning this because this forum isn't really tech-savy, as seen already in posts in this thread, users running with the idea that 4nm TSMC is some expensive withcraft and Nintendo wouldn't afford it. Its nothing special. By 2024 standards, picking that node is like picking 7nm process today.

TSMC N4 wafers are around double the price of Samsung 8N (which is in large part responsible for current gen GPU pricing) and 4-5x higher than launch era Switch's 20nm. No it's not a cutting edge "leading" node (all of which is literally owned by Apple for the first year or two), but it's the best and most contemporary node any company that's not Apple can be using for a product on Switch 2's expected release schedule. Switch 2 launching on N4 would be like the Switch 1 launching with the Mariko revision SoC, as in 2017 16/12nm was mainstream and 20nm was badly outdated.

 

[FunkMiller]

This is that weird fanboyism that plagues these boards. What the duck does that even mean? Im a grown ass man. Worked my whole life and have a great pension. Id love to buy a current power level level Nintendo home console , I grew up with them. You are on the other hand get called out how “well” Nintendo is doing a do bring Sony up, and you talk about smashing toys together? Psychotherapy and meds bro. Just some advice.

so transparent.

You came in here to shit post about Nintendo needing to 'grow some balls' and then YOU brought up Sony, which nobody else had. And then you complain about other people's 'weird fanboyism'?

If you're a grown ass man, why do you feel the need to come into a thread and troll?

 

[DenchDeckard]

Another generation behind...

But a generation ahead in game quality and consistency!

 

[daclynk]

I'm just glad that this confirms they're going with a hybrid system again.
Imagine how many games from the third parties this opens up for Nintendo?
Games like RDR2 etc.

yes i want GTA V on the successor but first Take Two/RockStar give me GTAIV on switch.

 

[Woopah]

yes i want GTA V on the successor but first Take Two/RockStar give me GTAIV on switch.

In Europe the Switch version of the GTA Trilogy was the 2nd best selling version. So I definitely think we'll see more GTA on Switch 2.

 

[TheTony316]

But technically the current Nintendo Switch has the power similar to a PS4... It can run Doom Eternal, Hellblade and The Witcher 3​

No. The Switch is basically a portable Wii U. Just because it can run (very) downgraded versions of these games, doesn't mean it's comparable to a PS4.

 

[Thaedolus]

No. The Switch is basically a portable Wii U. Just because it can run (very) downgraded versions of these games, doesn't mean it's comparable to a PS4.

It’s not comparable to a PS4 but it smokes a Wii U docked. 720p Wii U games run at 1080p on Switch no problem with better performance. It could easily do more if it weren’t so aggressively downclocked, likely for battery considerations.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

The thing you are not considering is, what are the future die shrink options? 3nm is a half node improvement at best, 2nm is another half node and it's not even being used now.

If it uses Samsung 5 nm, that is the shrink.

 

[FireFly]

Nintendo chose to charge like $100 more for Switch than Nvidia did for Shield despite having the same chip with some Joy Cons attached.

Pretty sure the most power hungry part of these PC handhelds is the GPU. I know for Deck atleast, the GPU consumes 10W of the 15W SoC budget. What Nvidia mobile GPU can compete with the latest RDNA3 chips that AMD has? Nvidia has been pretty AWOL on this front for a while. Even Samsung switched to RDNA2 for its internal GPU a while ago.

The Tegra X1 was the most powerful, a decade ago, long before all these massive advancements in low wattage processing.

Ampere was not far off RDNA 2 in performance per watt, despite being on an inferior process. And the RDNA 3 architecture only delivers a modest boost as you can see with the 7600.

 

[Ozriel]

Ps4 perf mobile
Ps4 pro perf docked

Most likely what it means.

The power difference between docked and undocked cant be enough to pull off a jump from 1.8tf to 4.3tf.

Nintendo will never join the arms race. Accept it.

Do they have a choice? NVIDiA doesn’t have any outdated crap to give them, and they’d certainly want something capable of DLSS and some AI tricks.

Not to mention that they need at least some respectable power levels and decent amount of VRAM to continue to be guaranteed third party ports from the flagship consoles.

Pull off a decent Switch 2 and automatically it becomes a mega seller and the priority target for tons of multiplatform developers.

 

[sinnergy]

The power difference between docked and undocked cant be enough to pull off a jump from 1.8tf to 4.3tf.



Do they have a choice? NVIDiA doesn’t have any outdated crap to give them, and they’d certainly want something capable of DLSS and some AI tricks.

Not to mention that they need at least some respectable power levels and decent amount of VRAM to continue to be guaranteed third party ports from the flagship consoles.

Pull off a decent Switch 2 and automatically it becomes a mega seller and the priority target for tons of multiplatform developers.

Nintendo always has a way .. better be prepared for years old tech .. and hope for the best . I would say Tegra X2 anything above would be amazing .

And why wouldn’t they ? Their switch sells with an ancient Tegra .. even when released it was old.

 

[Onironauta]

The $700 ASUS Ally with a “customized” version of AMD latest 7840U running at 25-30W just barely hits PS4 performance(1080p/30fps+) vs the uncapped version of God of War. 15W mode puts into the 25-29fps range and that’s not even in the more intense areas. I wouldn’t be surprised if Nintendo shoots for even lower power consumption than 15W in handheld mode. I don’t expect them to use as good cooling as the Ally, and I’d be surprised if they brought 7840U performance to the table even in “docked” mode.

Rog Ally is much more powerful than (base) PS4. The reason why they run GoW similarly is because PC games have much worse optimization.