sportzhead
Member
Amadeus said:framebuffer:
final output:
I would have sex with that car if I could.
Amadeus said:framebuffer:
final output:
Indeed. Though it's a shame that's not the same car...Amadeus said:yup.
good taste
Which just confirms my thoughts that XBLA will be the best reason to own a X360 early onhadareud said:it seems the only games that 360 can actually play at 60 fps and at 720p are xbox live arcade games.
Redbeard said:So they're creating the game with distorted dials and text so that when it gets stretched it looks normal?
mrklaw said:Shog, you mentioned non 16:9 output options. Care to mention some? AFAIK there are some VGA 4:3 options mentioned, and dash grabs of those.
But that doesn't detail what the 'active' image area will be. Eg if its a 1280x1024 4:3 VGA resolution, will it actually create a 4:3 game image, or just letterbox the 1280x720 inside a 1280x1024 box? I thought it was the latter?
Somebody has it backwards.Remember when PS2 came out? Remember the hype surrounding it? Remember when its games started coming out at thirty frames?
terrene said:I call bullshit on those pics. I think they were resized without bicubic resampling, which makes them look unblurry and "in native res."
Why is the text on the corners of the screen all warped and of differing widths? Looks just like text that has a row of pixels missing, to me.
Yeah, but they ARE outputting at 720p.to be telling developers they have to output everything in 720p
eso76 said:you're right...for example those "1" 's on the speedo-tach are all different from each other: if you look closer, some are thinner, some lack pixels, some are a slightly different colour...it definately looks like this screenshot has undergone some downscaling.
dark10x said:Somebody has it backwards.
PS2 came out. It's games were coming out at 60 fps (for the most part)...but they were all field rendered and jaggy as hell. PS2 was bringing us 60 fps like no other machine before. It remains the king of 60 still today (for 3D consoles).
eso76 said:you're right...for example those "1" 's on the speedo-tach are all different from each other: if you look closer, some are thinner, some lack pixels, some are a slightly different colour...it definately looks like this screenshot has undergone some downscaling.
Jerkface said:I must have a different kind of PS2 then, because high profile first party games like Killzone, Shadow of the Colossus and The Getaway have nothing like 60 frames per second.
What the hell? Could you have picked worse examples? I think not. I mean, Killzone has THE worst framerate on the system.Jerkface said:I must have a different kind of PS2 then, because high profile first party games like Killzone, Shadow of the Colossus and The Getaway have nothing like 60 frames per second.
dark10x said:What the hell? Could you have picked worse examples? I think not. I mean, Killzone has THE worst framerate on the system.
I'm looking at the library as a whole here. The system has the highest percentage of 60 fps titles of any system yet released. Of this there is NO doubt. Do we need to begin a list war?
XMonkey said:Ok, so assuming that these screens were downsized and this guy is blowing smoke up our asses, why hasn't Bizarre come out and put this crap to rest?
dark10x said:What the hell? Could you have picked worse examples? I think not. I mean, Killzone has THE worst framerate on the system.
I'm looking at the library as a whole here. The system has the highest percentage of 60 fps titles of any system yet released. Of this there is NO doubt. Do we need to begin a list war?
antipode said:Well, remember that this is a JPEG compressed picture, and that the HUD is alpha-blended with the road.
As I said in some of previous posts, it could be that their text renderer is simply not perfect. The same thing happened to many games this gen.eso76 said:yep, i've considered all that, but that's not the kind of artifacts that come with jpg compression or transparencies. If you have the chance, save the picture and zoom in on any letter for example, no way this is a 1:1 pixel exact reproduction of what was originally on screen (edit: not on screen, rather in the frame buffer)
I don't think this guy did anything on purpose, though, maybe there's some strange processing involved.
The thing i dont understand is that if this is true and that PGR3 is closer to 576p than 720p, why is the frame rate still an issue ? Why are they only able to reach 30 fps ? its not exactly boding well for the xbox 360 in terms of power.
Ryudo said:The thing i dont understand is that if this is true and that PGR3 is closer to 576p than 720p, why is the frame rate still an issue ? Why are they only able to reach 30 fps ? its not exactly boding well for the xbox 360 in terms of power.
Shogmaster said:Actually, this whole 600p thing is not about the amount of power but about the amount of EDRAM. The argument that's happening at B3D about this is that 1024x600 with AA is what exactly fits into the 10MB of EDRAM on daughter die without using frame buffer tiling. And the argument (using this mysterious post as "proof") is that according to some rumors, none of the launch games are using tiling, and that this is what Bizzare had to do without tiling to acheive the game visuals.
Of course it's kind of unbelievable to me that what basically amounts to a first party developer is not using tiling (which is a major design element of Xeno's EDRAM). Seems like if anyone, MGS efforts will be one taking full advantage of all Xeno's major design elements.
Shogmaster said:Actually, this whole 600p thing is not about the amount of power but about the amount of EDRAM. The argument that's happening at B3D about this is that 1024x600 with AA is what exactly fits into the 10MB of EDRAM on daughter die without using frame buffer tiling. And the argument (using this mysterious post as "proof") is that according to some rumors, none of the launch games are using tiling, and that this is what Bizzare had to do without tiling to acheive the game visuals.
Of course it's kind of unbelievable to me that what basically amounts to a first party developer is not using tiling (which is a major design element of Xeno's EDRAM). Seems like if anyone, MGS efforts will be one taking full advantage of all Xeno's major design elements.
beermonkey@tehbias said:So since it appears that RR6 is likely to be rendering at triple the fillrate of PGR3, I'm assuming that nobody is going to bitch that RR6 doesn't have the graphical detail of PGR3? :lol
beermonkey@tehbias said:So since it appears that RR6 is likely to be rendering at triple the fillrate of PGR3, I'm assuming that nobody is going to bitch that RR6 doesn't have the graphical detail of PGR3? :lol
op_ivy said:sounds like a good time for me to chime in again...
what exactly is tiling? what are the benefits?
how is xenos designed for tiling?
Shogmaster said:It's like this:
Xenos has 10MB of EDRAM on the daughter die, and it's sole purpose is to be used as a rendering scratch pad (much like PS2 and GC). But 10MB is not quite big enough for 1280x720 with AA and HDR. Infact IIRC, with 4xAA and 32bit HDR (10, 10, 10, 2), you need about 30MB of EDRAM to render the frame. But 30MB of EDRAM would be way too big and would have been too expensive to manufacture (even 10MB was too big to be cost effective in 90nm process that they had to split the GPU into Xenos the rendering core and the daughter die that houses the EDRAM to minimise the expense).
So MS and ATi decided that 10MB is the ideal cost point, and to get around the lack of frame buffer space, they designed Xenos so that it can tile the frame buffer into multiple parts that can be reassembled into full frame in the main RAM, and then sent out to the video out chip. This function is specifically designed into Xenos. So 1280x720 with AA and HDR will take 3 tiles to complete the full frame.
And that's Xenos and frame buffer tiling in a nutshell.
Mr. Lemming said:Does tiling, as it is implemented on the 360, have any major performance disadvantages?
Shogmaster said:Well, to get true 720p with AA and HDR would take 3 clock cycles and that's not good as doing it in a single clock so I guess that's one. But keep in mind there are 500,000,000 cycles Xenos does per second, and it's not like rest of the GPU will be doing nothing in those other two cycles, right?
Shogmaster said:Well, to get true 720p with AA and HDR would take 3 clock cycles and that's not good as doing it in a single clock so I guess that's one. But keep in mind there are 500,000,000 cycles Xenos does per second, and it's not like rest of the GPU will be doing nothing in those other two cycles, right?
It only takes one clock-cycle per tile? That seems awfully cheap.Shogmaster said:Well, to get true 720p with AA and HDR would take 3 clock cycles and that's not good as doing it in a single clock so I guess that's one. But keep in mind there are 500,000,000 cycles Xenos does per second, and it's not like rest of the GPU will be doing nothing in those other two cycles, right?
Striek said:It only takes one clock-cycle per tile? That seems awfully cheap.
Gek54 said:Is PAL HD resolution different?
Ryudo said:PAL HD is 720P and up. 576p is considered "ED" whereas 480P is considered "SD".
Shadow Moses said:Any "HD" is from 720p up.. 420p isn't
Shadow Moses said:Any "HD" is from 720p up.. 420p isn't
Ryudo said:I dunno where you get 420p from ?
sportzhead said:I would have sex with that car if I could.