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[ninge]

welcome to the HD generation!

 

[gofreak]

One of your Italian speaking commenters on xboxyde, P40L0, translated part of the conversation in your recently posted "Italian presentation by ?" video. What was said was this:

"The third video has a beta PGR3 version (very recent) running no HD720p but with standard resolution upscaled in a SAMSUNG HDTV. The game is in debug mode and is launched from the console's hard-disk."

If that's true, it'd actually make me more worried that what this guy is saying is also true.

 

[Beer Monkey]

yeah, it's not quite 1280 horizontally, but i didn't want to change the proportions. Besides, maybe the game will be stretched to 1220whateverx720 with small black bars at both sides, who knows : )

When you do the non-proportional stretch to 1280x720, the speedo/tach dials become round...surprise, surprise.

 

[Rorschach]

One thing that's strange with this image is that you can very clearly see that the building's textures get blurry not so far from the viewpoint (so there would be a texture pop-in like in the X05 build). This is a problem that was said to be fixed by Bizarre so either they lied, or that guy is not playing the final build of the game.

Hopefully the latter...*crosses fingers*

If not, that's totally weaksauce.

 

[Bebpo]

Doh :\

At least it still looks better than the 480p games of this gen.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Doh :\

At least it still looks better than the 480p games of this gen.

It looks better than most of 720p Xbox360 too.

 

[op_ivy]

wow, if true, i'll be kind of pissed...

i seriously doubt i'd ever be able to tell the difference, so it really doesnt effect me, other then it would definitely be yet another case of where MS has kind of skirted around the truth and let people believe false information. if all games arent internally done at 720p, then i'll feel decieved (again) by MS. that sucks.

 

[Zer0]

Where's Shog and his followers :lol ?

trolling elsewhere...oh wait

 

[Andvary]

It's worrying if they have to resort to that in order to reach those visuals.

 

[Shogmaster]

trolling elsewhere...oh wait

I'm right here, with some interesting things to chew on for you guys:

Here's the 1024x600 image blown up 2X via nearest neighbor in PS, then I made a true circle (with oval selection tool, you hold down Shift and Alt before you drag) close to the dial size as possible, filled it in with translucent red, and then cropped the area in question.

The dials are thinner than a true circle in the 1024x600 pic. They become more circular if you skew the image up to 1280x720.

Of course the gauges could originally meant to be a bit oval....


edit: Fuck, I'm late as usual. Beer already said as much.

 

[GhaleonEB]

What irks me about this is MS has been pushing 720p as a minimum standard. I'm sure most people won't actually notice (I sure won't on my 27" 15-year old CRT). But the fact that MS has been pushing their standards hard then let an MS-published game cut that corner to make launch troubles me very much. What it basically says is, "We have minimum standards unless a big game could miss deadline to meet those standards."

On general principal, I'm disappointed.

But the game still looks wicked awesome.

*edit*

So basically what op_ivy said.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

The thing I take away from this thread is that the tracks look wide and I love the looks of the other cars ahead in the pic. Looks like great fun, and I am sure it will look awesome on my non-HDTV in 16:9 mode just as PGR2 and Rallisport Challenge 2 did (only much better with AA and better graphics).

 

[teepo]

What irks me about this is MS has been pushing 720p as a minimum standard. I'm sure most people won't actually notice (I sure won't on my 27" 15-year old CRT). But the fact that MS has been pushing their standards hard then let an MS-published game cut that corner to make launch troubles me very much. What it basically says is, "We have minimum standards unless a big game could miss deadline to meet those standards."

On general principal, I'm disappointed.

But the game still looks wicked awesome.

*edit*

So basically what op_ivy said.

does't this make you question the power of the xbox360 if ms can't even live up to their 720p standard?

 

[mrklaw]

what's your point Shog? 1024x576 (near as dammit 600) is 16:9, so they'd just blow that up. A tiny bit here and there wouldn't make any difference.

1024x576 is quite a step down though. 1024x768 anamorphically done (then stretched by the 360 scaler) I could perhaps live with, but this is losing detail in both axes.

 

[cybamerc]

On general principal, I'm disappointed.

But you shouldn't be surprised. Every Xbox 1 game was supposed to run at 60 fps... then reality set in.

 

[Borys]

What irks me about this is MS has been pushing 720p as a minimum standard. I'm sure most people won't actually notice (I sure won't on my 27" 15-year old CRT). But the fact that MS has been pushing their standards hard then let an MS-published game cut that corner to make launch troubles me very much. What it basically says is, "We have minimum standards unless a big game could miss deadline to meet those standards."

On general principal, I'm disappointed.

But the game still looks wicked awesome.

*edit*

So basically what op_ivy said.

Well it's still not confirmed... anyway I think they overdid with special effects and found out that the game runs @ 20 fps instead of the 30 they aimed at. So they had 2 choices: scale back on effects, polys, textures etc. or drop down the resolution. The second choice is of course much easier.

 

[Slurpy]

Wow. If true, then this system is looking more and more like a technical stopgap between the last generation, and the next (ps3). Something like what many considered th dreamcast. 30fps- that's fine I guess. But they shouldn't have to kill the resolution to achieve a 30fps framerate.

 

[Big Takeover]

If that's true, it'd actually make me more worried that what this guy is saying is also true.

Or you could deduce that since the comment about reduced res only applies to one video (track?, build?), that the others are 720p.

Look, I have no idea what the final build will be like, but if you take into consideration Blim's comment on some pretty serious popup (which was promised to be fixed) and at least 1 build in the wild that doesn't spit out 720p, it is certainly possible that "some guy" on "some board" doesn't have what he thinks he does.

 

[shpankey]

Isn't resolution pretty much purely a GPU thing? I thought that the ATI GPU in the X360 was supposed to be as, if not more powerful (err efficient), than the PS3's (?); and the PS3 is supposed to have its games running at 1080p. Now you're saying that the x360 can't even do 720p?

Something isn't making sense here.

 

[snatches]

Or you could deduce that since the comment about reduced res only applies to one video (track?, build?) that the others are 720p.

Look, I have no idea what the final build will be like, but if you take into consideration Blim's comment on some pretty serious popup (which was promised to be fixed) and at least 1 build in the wild that doesn't spit out 720p, it is certainly possible that "some guy" on "some board" doesn't have what he thinks he does.

PS3 version would be 1080p at 240 fps. Easy. And that muhfuckin grill KNOCKS OUT THE FAT!LOLZ

 

[hadareud]

it seems the only games that 360 can actually play at 60 fps and at 720p are xbox live arcade games. shitty hardware, a power supply that wont fit through the door, slideshow games.

man, I cannot wait till the next generation (ps3) finally starts!

 

[gofreak]

than the PS3's (?); and the PS3 is supposed to have its games running at 1080p

No it's not, it's simply an option if the dev chooses that. Few will, I would think.

I think if it is true, it's not a coincidence that this res fits into eDram with 2xAA without tiling. Tiling seems to be screwing devs over as far as launch titles go at least.

 

[Shogmaster]

what's your point Shog? 1024x576 (near as dammit 600) is 16:9, so they'd just blow that up. A tiny bit here and there wouldn't make any difference.

1024x576 is quite a step down though. 1024x768 anamorphically done (then stretched by the 360 scaler) I could perhaps live with, but this is losing detail in both axes.

But if you read the original comment by the poster that provided that pic as proof, he says that the frame buffer throws out 1024x600 pic in game while menus caps are in 1280x720. So 1024x576 is not even in the equation.

And I don't know if you guys been following this, but there's a PGR3 thread at B3D where someone called Powderkeg stated that his buddy told him that PGR3 is rendering 1024x600 internally and running at 30fps in the final version. Then naturally someone asks for proof, Powerderkeg says proof will come, then magically not too long later, a post apears from a brand new member that registered that same day in the official PGR3 site's forum that prooves those exact things.

As the other guy in that thread states, it seems more than a little too coincidental, and his proof picture has this little weird issue with dials that are a little too thin for a circle at 1024x600 while is fine resized at 1280x720......

 

[Warm Machine]

Well, something like this can always be patched in the future if they continue to improve the game after its release.

Because there is such a push to get games ready for launch and launch window I'm not surprised this sort of thing is happening.

 

[terrene]

One thing that's strange with this image is that you can very clearly see that the building's textures get blurry not so far from the viewpoint (so there would be a texture pop-in like in the X05 build). This is a problem that was said to be fixed by Bizarre so either they lied, or that guy is not playing the final build of the game.

Hmm. Does PGR3 allow you to install base files on the hard drive? I imagine that would help the pop-in.

 

[shpankey]

it seems the only games that 360 can actually play at 60 fps and at 720p are xbox live arcade games. shitty hardware, a power supply that wont fit through the door, slideshow games.

I hate to break this to you then bud... but the power supply issue is not going away on PS3. There simply is no "magic bullet" power supply technology that is going to solve that. The power both these systems will require is too great. I in fact have no doubts in my mind the PS3 PS will be even larger, believe it or not.

 

[hadareud]

I hate to break this to you then bud... the power supply issue is not going away on PS3. Their simply is no "magic" technology that is going to solve that. The power both these systems will require is to great. I in fact have no doubts in my mind the PS3 PS will be even larger, believe it or not.

it was a joke

edit: I wonder if bizarre are actually going to comment on this issue ...

 

[Lord Error]

and his proof picture has this little weird issue with dials that are a little too thin for a circle at 1024x600 while is fine resized at 1280x720......

If the game was always meant to render in 1024x600, the UI assets would be created appropriately so that they look correct (round and thick enough) when scaled to 1280x720.

 

[shpankey]

edit: I wonder if bizarre are actually going to comment on this issue ...

their silence is deafening... how long has it been since he posted this though? could be that they're totally unaware that this is being spread.

of course, if they do know about it and have chosen not to comment, that says volumes.

 

[Borys]

it seems the only games that 360 can actually play at 60 fps and at 720p are xbox live arcade games. shitty hardware, a power supply that wont fit through the door, slideshow games.

man, I cannot wait till the next generation (ps3) finally starts!

:lol

That's the spirit!

 

[Shogmaster]

If the game was always meant to render in 1024x600, the UI assets would be created appropriately so that they look correct (round and thick enough) when scaled to 1280x720.

Your theory doesn't work with the fact that the X360 has alot more than 1280x720 output available (not all of them 16:9).

 

[Striek]

Wow if true, that is pretty shitty and anyone saying anything else is nuts.

Whats interesting though, the screens IGN got of MGS4 were 1024*576...which seemed like a wierd, abitrary resolution at the time...

Spoiler

Sorry for bringing in MGS4 but this thread just got me thinking, will this be widespread next-gen?

 

[fse]

Ugh, so no true 720p?

 

[Big Takeover]

Does anyone else know where to find 1024x600 buffer caps? The only one I have seen is the one in question.

 

[terrene]

I call bullshit on those pics. I think they were resized without bicubic resampling, which makes them look unblurry and "in native res."

Why is the text on the corners of the screen all warped and of differing widths? Looks just like text that has a row of pixels missing, to me.

 

[Shogmaster]

Does anyone else know where to find 1024x600 buffer caps? The only one I have seen is the one in question.

That's the only one so far, but who knows.

If this guy supposedly has the review copy of the game, then someone like Che must have access to it as well. Maybe he can grab a frame buffer pic from the game and verify for us so we can move on in this discussion.

I call bullshit on those pics. I think they were resized without bicubic resampling, which makes them look unblurry and "in native res."

Why is the text on the corners of the screen all warped and of differing widths? Looks just like text that has a row of pixels missing, to me.

I mentioned the same thing at B3D but no one said anything yet.

 

[Lord Error]

Your theory doesn't work with the fact that the X360 has alot more than 1280x720 output available (not all of them 16:9).

Same thing with all the games that support both 4:3 and 16:9 ratios. UI has to be scaled accordingly, or otherwise it looks stretched.

 

[Shogmaster]

Same thing with all the games that support both 4:3 and 16:9 ratios. UI has to be scaled accordingly, or otherwise it looks stretched.

Yeah, but isn't it weird that the original frame buffer grab would have distorted dials instead of just some of the later scaled output pics?

 

[op_ivy]

Yeah, but isn't it weird that the original frame buffer grab would have distorted dials instead of just some of the later scaled output pics?

maybe i'm not following this properly, but wouldnt it make sense to have the rendered UI be out of whack a bit if the resulting scaled outputs looked normal and not vice versa?

 

[Zer0]

by the way the game still looks fucking awesome,some days ago i got my hands on the last beta and the photo mode is a godsend

 

[Shogmaster]

maybe i'm not following this properly, but wouldnt it make sense to have the rendered UI be out of whack a bit if the resulting scaled outputs looked normal and not vice versa?

I guess that's true but as I said, there are many none 16:9 output options for X360.

 

[Lord Error]

Yeah, but isn't it weird that the original frame buffer grab would have distorted dials instead of just some of the later scaled output pics?

No. Some PS2 games do the same thing, as their original frame buffer is 512x448. UI, and everything else would be a little squished in them so that when the game gets scaled to 640x448 (or 640x480) for a TV display, everything looks correct.

Btw, the text not looking perfectly smooth could also to do with their text renderer not being perfect. They could be using a vector font instead of bitmap font. There were games this gen that had simillar small problems with text rendering.

 

[momolicious]

if it is final hardware, how come it is having trouble pushing 60fps

 

[op_ivy]

if it is final hardware, how come it is having trouble pushing 60fps

um, just a guess, cause its a launch title? how long have they had final kits, a few months (tops)?

 

[open_mouth_]

I'm going to be playing this AAA game on my HDTV and enjoying the heck out of it while you bitches are still arguing over 30fps and 600p, or whatever else it is some of you guys do rather than play games.

 

[urk]

if it is final hardware, how come it is having trouble pushing 60fps

Because it is, quite simply put, one of the best looking racers ever published, pushing to make launch, and one of the first games for a brand spanking new platform?

Or we could go your way and just say Thr33 Sh1tty SuXXorZ!!!!lol!!!!!11

 

[Redbeard]

So they're creating the game with distorted dials and text so that when it gets stretched it looks normal?

 

[op_ivy]

I'm going to be playing this AAA game on my HDTV and enjoying the heck out of it while you bitches are still arguing over 30fps and 600p, or whatever else it is some of you guys do rather than play games.

some of us arent bitching about the game. i'm sure i would never have known, nor would i likely be able to spot the difference even if i got to see the two resolutions running side by side.

my beef is with MS and how the have mislead the public on a couple issues. this is the latest (if it proves to be true)

 

[Trustus Jones]

I'm going to be playing this AAA game on my HDTV and enjoying the heck out of it while you bitches are still arguing over 30fps and 600p, or whatever else it is some of you guys do rather than play games.

And I will enjoy It come launch day to, but It doesn`t change the fact that there`s a high chance we`ve been lied to regarding Microsofts "minimum 720P" promise. I brought a HDTV to view HD material on, not nearly HD material.

 

[Amadeus]

framebuffer:

final output: