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Opinion Cringe Retro Is Alien vs. Predator Jaguar open-world or nahh?

Is Alien vs. Predator Jaguar open-world or nahh?

  • yeah, absolutely.

    Votes: 2 3.1%
  • nahh, not at all, it is still the same key hunting.

    Votes: 23 35.4%
  • It's Metroidvania-esque

    Votes: 7 10.8%
  • more open than most FPS back then, but not enough to be called open-world

    Votes: 30 46.2%
  • I have another opinion that will write in the comments

    Votes: 3 4.6%

  • Total voters
    65
Dec 12, 2018
1,805
2,003
435

The Jaguar game was often regarded as an innovative killer app for the system. There were some more mixed and even bad reviews for the game even back then, but the vast majority thought this game was very good. It's definitely a game with a dense atmosphere and it allows for several playstyles. In this day and age though, it would be fair to say it aged poorly compared to titles like Doom or Duke Nukem 3D. The quality of the game isn't the point of this topic though, so yeah, the title explains it all. Have fun and discuss!
 
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hybrid_birth

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Very Funny Puppy GIF
 

Havoc2049

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I wouldn't call it open world. Staying old school, it's nothing like Pirates!, Ultima series, Daggerfall, etc. It's a self contained area, in this case a space station. It's much like the self contained dungeons in dungeon crawlers like Eye of the Beholder, Dungeon Master, Towers II, etc. AVP on the Jag is slower paced than most FPS games and has a strong survival horror vibe. AVP on the Jag is a great game, IMO. I actually like Jag AVP better than the reboot of AVP that Rebellion did for the PC.
 
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Rock And Roll

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What's the state of Jaguar emulation these days? Always wanted to play this and a few other Jaguar games but never pulled the trigger on tracking down a console. It looks like such a unique game
 

molasar

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I wouldn't call it open world. Staying old school, it's nothing like Pirates!, Ultima series, Daggerfall, etc. It's a self contained area, in this case a space station. It's much like the self contained dungeons in dungeon crawlers like Eye of the Beholder, Dungeon Master, Towers II, etc. AVP on the Jag is slower paced than more FPS games and has a strong survival horror vibe. AVP on the Jag is a great game, IMO. I actually like Jag AVP better than the reboot of AVP that Rebellion did for the PC.

It is 5 level military space station which is interconnected by two shaft elevators and air duct systems. Also two ET space crafts are docked to it. There is no progress system in it based on levels or order of tasks.
 
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Cravis

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I always wanted to get a Jaguar just for this game. Whew, thankfully I did not. Dodged a bullet with that one.

It was impressive at the time but time has not been kind to it. Finally got to play it in the 2000s and it was too late. Still looking at it through the lends on mid 90s, it was hella cool.
 
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MiguelItUp

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I owned this game and played it like a mad man.

I guess I never thought about it as an adult, but I guess in a weird way it was kind of "open world" but at the time I never thought anything about it because there are moments that feel like the beginning and end of a level. But each race can access the same areas from their own perspectives, which continues to make you think that it really is the same "big" environment.

Game was great, I loved it so much. It was honestly the only game I owned aside from another Jaguar game that I got on clearance, lmao. I just borrowed a bunch of games from another friend of mine.
 

Rob_27

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Still waiting for this to be playable properly.
Loved the game on Jag but didn't notice how slow it ran at the time.
 

Vae_Victis

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Open World usually implies that you can just go anywhere and access most of the content in whatever order you wish (even though the main plot and individual quests will obviously follow their internal order). If a game has a single interconnected world, but the progression is still sort of pre-determined and you are railroaded into new areas a few at a time and in a somewhat pre-determined order, I think it's better to just call it non-linear or a Metroidvania (even though I think Metroidvania implies a very specific way of progression, that consists of you backtracking to older areas but being able to access new routes from them thanks to the acquisition of new traversal abilities).

Just so we're clear, I'd call Dark Souls non-linear, not open world. Open world = no order of progression to reach different areas of the map. Non-linear = areas still follow an "order" and force you to "play" them before you can reach the next, even though you can pick multiple directions and they may interconnect in a complex way.

Skyrim's map:



Dark Souls' map:



There are also "hub-based" games where you have "levels" in practice, even though they are not presented as such, and you simply access the various areas of the world from a single central hub that connects all of them, but each one of them is self-contained and they don't connect with each other. (I think Strife from 1996 pretty much worked like that).

I didn't play this game and just glancing at the longplay it's hard to get a good idea of the world structure, but the hunch I'm getting is more non-linear than open world.
 
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molasar

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I absolutely love the "you didnt play it back then" argument, as if playing a game at a later time makes it change its engine or genre.

Do you suggest that playing more newer, more advanced games on newer, more advanced hardware does not affect one's perception? For example are Killer Instinct and Donkey Kong Country as impressive as they were in 1994?
 

molasar

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Open world = no order of progression to reach different areas of the map. Non-linear = areas still follow an "order" and force you to "play" them before you can reach the next, even though you can pick multiple directions and they may interconnect in a complex way.

Based on your description Jag's AvP is an open world game.
 

nkarafo

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Do you suggest that playing more newer, more advanced games on newer, more advanced hardware does not affect one's perception? For example are Killer Instinct and Donkey Kong Country as impressive as they were in 1994?
Thats not what i said.
 

Havoc2049

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It is 5 level military space station which is interconnected by two shaft elevators and air duct systems. Also two ET space crafts are docked to it. There is no progress system in it based on levels or order of tasks.
Yes, it is an open world game.
Sadly most of you who never played it in '94/95 think that it is some Doom clone FPS.
You yourself described a small self contained world. And yes, each character has a specific goal and that goal has to be completed in a specific order. The Alien has to save the Alien Queen, the Predator has to kill the Alien Queen and the Marine has to set the self destruct sequence for the base overrun by xenomorphs and escape in an escape pod. Each character has to complete a specific task to open up new areas of the base so they can reach their final specific goal.
 

molasar

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You yourself described a small self contained world. And yes, each character has a specific goal and that goal has to be completed in a specific order. The Alien has to save the Alien Queen, the Predator has to kill the Alien Queen and the Marine has to set the self destruct sequence for the base overrun by xenomorphs and escape in an escape pod. Each character has to complete a specific task to open up new areas of the base so they can reach their final specific goal.

Yes, self contained world is still an open world.
Nope.
There is only one main task for each character.
Alien - free the Queen from Predator's prison. It is up to you if you will be killing, avoiding or cocooning Marines and Preds. If you will go straight to the ship. Or what order you will destroy energy wall generators. You are only not allowed to use elevators.
Pred - kill the Queen. It is up to you where and how you will be hunting. Obviously you need to acquire enough honor points to be granted a shoulder cannon and deal with your ultimate prey. You are only not allowed to use air duct systems.
Marine - activate a self destruct mechanism and acquire an access card #10 to do this. There are people who just got only Pulse Rifle and the card without doing any other stuff.
Not to mention that the escape is not necessary. You will still get a bad ending without it.

@SpongebobSquaredance
 

T8SC

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It's an FPS in 2021 as much as it was in 1994.

Not that it makes any difference, but I played it in 1994 also.
 

molasar

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It's an FPS in 2021 as much as it was in 1994.

Not that it makes any difference, but I played it in 1994 also.

And classic Resident Evil 1-3 a TPS with a fixed camera system. Lol.
 
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T8SC

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No, it has elements of FPS. And it is hardly to call Alien and Predator sharp weapon moves as shooting weapons.

However I agree that this is a first person perspective game.

Also here you can find in definition that FPS element was mixed with elements of other genres.


It's a FPS.

Guess what Rebellion call it? A FPS.

Wanna know why? Because it's a FPS.

It may have aspects of horror, doesnt make it a survival horror game. It may have a map/world, doesnt make it open world. It may have items to pick up, doesn't mean it's an RPG.

It's a FPS.
 

molasar

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@ SpongebobSquaredance SpongebobSquaredance

It does not change a thing that an FPS element in Jag's AvP is not the only one.

If you like Wikipedia then you can start reading a definition part here:
" but critics have since identified similar, though less advanced, games developed as far back as 1973.[8] There are occasional disagreements regarding the specific design elements which constitute a first-person shooter. For example, titles like Deus Ex or BioShock may be considered as first-person shooters, but may also fit into the role-playing games category, as they borrow extensively from that genre.[13] Other examples, like Far Cry and Rage, could also be considered adventure games, because they focus more on exploration than simple action, they task players with multiple different objectives other than just killing enemies, and they often revolve around the construction of complex cinematic storylines with a well defined cast of secondary characters to interact with. "
 
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No, it has elements of FPS. And it is hardly to call Alien and Predator sharp weapon moves as shooting weapons.

However I agree that this is a first person perspective game.

Also here you can find in definition that FPS element was mixed with elements of other genres.

If I get you right, your point is that a third of the game (marines) is an FPS?
If that's the case, the Predator race can also shoot projectiles. Only the Aliens are entirely dependent on melee attacks.

...and if we look at the Wikipedia definition of FPS, Alien vs. Predator certainly fits the description.
First-person shooter (FPS) is a sub-genre of shooter video games centered on gun and other weapon-based combat in a first-person perspective, with the player experiencing the action through the eyes of the protagonist and controlling the player character in a three-dimensional space.[


It does not change a thing that an FPS element in Jag's AvP is not the only one.
T8SC T8SC already said it. Those are FPS' with elements of other genres. They are still very much FPS games.
 
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nkarafo

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But this is what happens. Have not you tried to portray it as a Doom clone or FPS game? Is Alien: Isolation an FPS too for example?
I don't really care about the discussion of what kind of game this is. I'm not interested in the game itself. Don't have an opinion about it being open world or not. I also don't care about it being a good game or not, that's a matter of taste.

When it comes to DOOM vs AVP, on the same system, the only discussion i'm interested about is the graphics/tech comparison. Both games released very close to each other and both exist on the same system. One has a very aging engine with a horrible frame rate and view distance and the other has a state of the art engine by 1993-94 standards that allows complex architecture and limitless view distance. Plus the port was made by Carmack himself so it also has a great frame rate. I didn't compare them with today's games or anything. So it doesn't matter when i played it or even if i played it at all.

And that's not a matter of opinion. It's a FACT that DOOM is a far more advanced game, technically, than AVP. It has a more modern engine, what else is there to discuss? You may like AVP's artistic direction more, sure, but the TECH is inferior. It's not hard to grasp.
 
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molasar

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Season 1 Yes GIF by Rick and Morty

Maybe not on paper, but there’s a lot of first person shooting in that game if you get tired of sneaking.

Jaguar‘s AVP is an FPS.

Nope. It has an element of FPS. But it has a first person view point. Not to mention Alien does not have any guns and Predator can acquire a shoulder cannon only.
 
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TheMay30thMan

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Nope. It has an element of FPS. But it has a first person view point. Not to mention Alien does not have any guns and Predator can acquire a shoulder cannon only.
Do you believe that Rebellion’s AVP isn’t an FPS as well?
 

molasar

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If I get you right, your point is that a third of the game (marines) is an FPS?
If that's the case, the Predator race can also shoot projectiles. Only the Aliens are entirely dependent on melee attacks.

...and if we look at the Wikipedia definition of FPS, Alien vs. Predator certainly fits the description.

What I said that the game is not a dedicated shooter like Wolf3D and Doom. It just has an element of FPS mixed with others.

Also this again if you love Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-person_shooter
 

T8SC

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Nope. It has an element of FPS. But it has a first person view point. Not to mention Alien does not have any guns and Predator can acquire a shoulder cannon only.

Marine - Shoots a gun.
Predator - Shoots shoulder cannon.
Alien - Small mouth shoots out of it's bigger mouth.

FPS.
 

molasar

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It's a FPS.

Guess what Rebellion call it? A FPS.

Wanna know why? Because it's a FPS.

It may have aspects of horror, doesnt make it a survival horror game. It may have a map/world, doesnt make it open world. It may have items to pick up, doesn't mean it's an RPG.

It's a FPS.

Nope. It has an element of FPS only.

Rebellion can call it whatever they want to.

Wanna know why? Because it is not a dedicated FPS.

It is a survival horror game. And it is an open world game. You are not forced to pick up all items or use them.

It is a game witch mixes genres. An RPG, open world, FPS, survival horror (from Marine perspective), etc.

Not a dedicated FPS.
 

nkarafo

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What I said that the game is not a dedicated shooter like Wolf3D and Doom. It just has an element of FPS mixed with others.

Also this again if you love Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-person_shooter
If we are going to be pedantic, then DOOM isn't an FPS either. It has elements of FPS but it also relies a lot on exploration. Solving the levels themselves is a game in itself, no scratch that, the main objective it to solve the levels. Find the keys and your way out. The monsters are just obstacles. Even without the enemies, you still have a challenge. Heck, you don't even need to kill a single monster to beat most of the levels, see "pacifist" runs.

So there. Doom is not an FPS after all.
 
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T8SC

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Nope. It has an element of FPS only.

Rebellion can call it whatever they want to.

Wanna know why? Because it is not a dedicated FPS.

It is a survival horror game. And it is an open world game. You are not forced to pick up all items or use them.

It is a game witch mixes genres. An RPG, open world, FPS, survival horror (from Marine perspective), etc.

Not a dedicated FPS.

Ridge Racer Revolution is a space shoot 'em up game then.



That's a screenshot of Ridge Racer Revolution. Clearly a space shoot 'em up game.
 
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molasar

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Ridge Racer Revolution is a space shoot 'em up game then.



That's a screenshot of Ridge Racer Revolution. Clearly a space shoot 'em up game.

Is it an integral part of main game or a loading screen bonus?

Are classic Resident Evil games third person shooters or a TPS is one of their elements?