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PLAYSTATION 6: Potential Innovations, Features, Business Strategies & More (Speculation)

What THREE things are YOU looking most forward to from a PS6 in 10th Gen?

  • Large visual fidelity jump over PS5 & PS5 Pro

    Votes: 101 61.2%
  • Big 1P superhero games (Spiderman, X-Men etc.)

    Votes: 10 6.1%
  • New 1P AAA and AA original IP

    Votes: 79 47.9%
  • Return of 1P classic/legacy IP

    Votes: 43 26.1%
  • Immersive innovation in UI (user interface)

    Votes: 25 15.2%
  • Immersive innovation & standardization in I/O (VR/AR, controller etc.)

    Votes: 51 30.9%
  • Innovative technologies (AI, PNM/PIM, chiplets scalability etc.)

    Votes: 87 52.7%
  • Expanded user experience (console, mobile, cloud/streaming, PC)

    Votes: 20 12.1%

  • Total voters
    165
  • Poll closed .
PlayStation Home for UI option, embedded, zero load time.

Come on SONY, stop being fucking cowards.

IKR? And imagine having the option to use a VR interface with that, too. It'd be amazing.

But for those who want a more traditional UI, they can opt for that version as well. Think of it like how you can customize the desktop environment in Windows or other OSes.

Wasted potential of not even considering PS Home for their GAAS initiatives.

Yeah. Also IMO not having a MLB The Show F2P on mobile. That would be massive in places like Japan and Korea. Also maybe they can get the FIFA license for a soccer/football game on mobile, while EA does the FC stuff on console & PC side.

Sony could've/could even integrate fantasy league stuff & bets tied to it in the mobile games, for those old enough to do that legally.

VR will never take off…

Quest 2 sold 10 million units in one year. To put that in perspective, they sold more in one year than Xbox Series has sold through the entirety of 2023.

So there is definitely a market for VR. But I agree in a sense, it won't take off truly until it becomes cost-effective to both produce and buy, and it's given a big push by a leading gaming brand. Outside of Oculus/Meta, the only other real option here is Sony & PlayStation, but they have to work on the costs-production side of things first.

Thankfully, tech like PS.Link and improvements to Remote Play, among other things, such as mini-LED as potential material for cheaper lenses in cheaper headset models, could make it very possible. To have some cheap & relatively performant VR headset as standard in the package as a controller, would open up many doors.
 
The only improvements:
Better CPU
Better GPU
AI (upscaling)
V Cache
Faster memory/memory bandwith
Could also go with PCI 5.0

But why?? Harder to cool and most devs haven't utilizied 4.0 for games.

Why the hell are we stuck with analog sticks for FPS and third person shooters??

Bring on the trackball controllers.
 
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The only improvements:
Better CPU
Better GPU
AI (upscaling)
V Cache
Faster memory/memory bandwith
Could also go with PCI 5.0

But why?? Harder to cool and most devs haven't utilizied 4.0 for games.

Why the hell are we stuck with analog sticks for FPS and third person shooters??

Bring on the trackball controllers.

Honestly I don't know if significantly faster SSDs would be worth the upgrade for next-gen. Even better compression/decompression tech would be more valuable IMO, but a nominal bump say, for example, 12 GB/s SSD with decompression up to 5:1 and even better means of simulating byte-level addressability with some buffer cache would be a really great thing to see, and help with a modest (2x) jump in RAM capacity.

Maybe instead of trackballs, they could make the d-pad into a circular segmented mesh that can function either digitally or in analog mode with haptics. In the latter it'd basically act like a trackball or maybe even a mouse pointer by registering the last thumb position mapped to some space. I've never been a big fan of the segmented cross d-pad on PS controllers anyway, TBH.

I feel bad for those thinking there are going to be big jumps in visuals. Probably be nominal at this point. As more TVs are supporting 120 hz now I think the framerate push will larger.

Ultimately I hope for more innovations though.

Yeah, that's a reason I was looking to focus more on things like VR, UI, the controller, and innovations with those. Less focused on the specs; I feel whatever specs are arrived at for performance will be more than good enough, and certain baseline (like at least 32 GB of RAM) should just be a given at this point.
 

Hudo

Member
I feel bad for those thinking there are going to be big jumps in visuals. Probably be nominal at this point. As more TVs are supporting 120 hz now I think the framerate push will larger.

Ultimately I hope for more innovations though.
The visual jumps will also be minimized by the existence of a PS5 Pro. The jump between a PS4 Pro and a PS5 was also not really impressive.

But then again, games looking good is getting boring quite fast. I'd rather see some heavily needed innovations when it comes to AI and general gameplay systems and design. Better graphics is like the lowest hanging fruit at this point.
 

farmerboy

Member
I feel bad for those thinking there are going to be big jumps in visuals. Probably be nominal at this point. As more TVs are supporting 120 hz now I think the framerate push will larger.

Ultimately I hope for more innovations though.

We'll see a jump, but it'll be the jump we didn't see this gen.

Backwards compatibility means the gens go forward but the games stay a gen behind.
 
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Audiophile

Gold Member
I expect we'll be on Zen 7/7c for PS6, so we could even jump PCIe 5.0 and see PCIe 6.0; with conservative clocks that'd put us at 20-24GB/s before compression. Paired with something like 32GB of GDDR7 @ 1.5TB/s and it'd be absurdly fast on the I/O. You could have entire levels/immediate areas loaded into RAM in a split second, resident alongside the framebuffer.

The only issue with this might be the cost of upgradability as PCIe 6.0 drives will likely be necessitated, but then it'll once again be for native titles, plus I believe the PS6 'll likely launch with 4TB of storage; drastically reducing most peoples' requirements for core storage upgrades early in the lifecycle (if at all); when drives those drives will be pricier.

If however we see PCIe 5.0 @ ~12GB/s [and/or GDDR6X with it] then the idea of a small, ultra-fast ReRAM pool that devs can either leave as an Automated L4 Cache or activate as a Programmable Scratchpad sounds cool..

Even with extensive developments I don't see ReRAM being possible as main storage though as they'd have to hit a bare minimum of 2TB for it to be a viable default storage solution in PS6. In addition, it'll limit upgradability options or require proprietary add-ons (which would go against their ethos this gen).


My guess as the most balanced option with two (by-then) maturer standards will be:

4TB PCIe 6.0 @ 22GB/s
32GB GDDR7 @ 1.2-1.5TB/s
Plenty of cache on the CPU/GPU.

I expect we see heavy AI & RT acceleration this time round; requiring lots of bandwidth across the board.

I'd still love to see HBM; they could probably use underclocked HBM3 Gen I/II chips -- which'll be the relative bargain basement option within the HBM space by then -- and still perform great with excellent efficiency. If they take a partial chiplet route they might be more inclined, but I still doubt it.

On the subject of chiplets. A single APU has always made sense up till now as it's a more bespoke design and the chiplet approach made more sense for off-the-shelf dies. But at this point (and with Infinity Fabric as an enabler) a bespoke chiplet design might gain more performance as a result of cost savings vs the efficiencies of a bespoke APU.


Here's a mockup logo set in the mean-time:



(clicky) :messenger_sunglasses:
 
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Loxus

Member
Haven't seen much talk about cooling but I'll like to see them invest in some kind of liquid cooling, in conjunction with liquid metal.

Below image for reference, consist of a fan, radiator, pump and reservoir.
UH40WnL.jpg


Along with quick disconnect tubing for repairability.
X1AUlmd.jpg
 
Last edited:
I expect we'll be on Zen 7/7c for PS6, so we could even jump PCIe 5.0 and see PCIe 6.0; with conservative clocks that'd put us at 20-24GB/s before compression. Paired with something like 32GB of GDDR7 @ 1.5TB/s and it'd be absurdly fast on the I/O. You could have entire levels/immediate areas loaded into RAM in a split second, resident alongside the framebuffer.

The only issue with this might be the cost of upgradability as PCIe 6.0 drives will likely be necessitated, but then it'll once again be for native titles, plus I believe the PS6 'll likely launch with 4TB of storage; drastically reducing most peoples' requirements for core storage upgrades early in the lifecycle (if at all); when drives those drives will be pricier.

If however we see PCIe 5.0 @ ~12GB/s [and/or GDDR6X with it] then the idea of a small, ultra-fast ReRAM pool that devs can either leave as an Automated L4 Cache or activate as a Programmable Scratchpad sounds cool..

Even with extensive developments I don't see ReRAM being possible as main storage though as they'd have to hit a bare minimum of 2TB for it to be a viable default storage solution in PS6. In addition, it'll limit upgradability options or require proprietary add-ons (which would go against their ethos this gen).


My guess as the most balanced option with two (by-then) maturer standards will be:

4TB PCIe 6.0 @ 22GB/s
32GB GDDR7 @ 1.2-1.5TB/s
Plenty of cache on the CPU/GPU.

I expect we see heavy AI & RT acceleration this time round; requiring lots of bandwidth across the board.

I'd still love to see HBM; they could probably use underclocked HBM3 Gen I/II chips -- which'll be the relative bargain basement option within the HBM space by then -- and still perform great with excellent efficiency. If they take a partial chiplet route they might be more inclined, but I still doubt it.

On the subject of chiplets. A single APU has always made sense up till now as it's a more bespoke design and the chiplet approach made more sense for off-the-shelf dies. But at this point (and with Infinity Fabric as an enabler) a bespoke chiplet design might gain more performance as a result of cost savings vs the efficiencies of a bespoke APU.


Here's a mockup logo set in the mean-time:



(clicky) :messenger_sunglasses:

Lot of good speculation here on the tech side of things. There are a few I'd add to this:

RAM: 32 GB GDDR7 is most likely, and the bandwidth looks realistic. However, I think (well, hope) Sony go with a GDDR7W variant. Doubles density and bandwidth per chip without doubling the physical size & footprint.

SSD: I can see Sony doing 2 different SKUs with the SSDs, but none having as much as 4 TB of storage. Probably 1 with 2 TB and another with 1 TB or maybe even 512 GB. But with even better compression and decompression, you get more out of that storage, plus users can upgrade to larger capacities if they need to. As for speed, well they will probably provide support for PCIe 6.0 drives, but I can see them including PCIe 5.0 type drives by default instead.

Honestly I'd be more interested in the I/O subsystem for SSD data and data in general, including what way if any they could get the SSD data to act more granular. Maybe replicating the amount of parallel channels with some type of cache buffer system, for example, while using industry-standard m.2 interfaces.

ReRAM: vivftp vivftp was talking about this earlier, and it would be great to have. But how commercially ready would it be for a mass-produced console launching in 2027 or 2028? I think if Sony can have a fast-enough SSD included by default (say, 12 GB/s or 16 GB/s) and robust enough decompression I/O (around 48 GB/s - 64 GB/s), and a way to replicate channel parallelism access with a cache buffer and localized/PNM processing for it, you really wouldn't need ReRAM at all.

The SSD would be pretty fast, the decompression even faster and the cache much faster than ReRAM. So maybe just 2 MB - 3 MB of a cache buffer operating at a very fast frequency could get the job done, as long as you have fast enough decompression and a fast enough SSD.

HBM: I'd love to see it, too. Actually, I'd love to see some type of HBM-PIM. It would be more energy-efficient than GDDR7. But if GDDR7W is available, it'd be relatively cheap like GDDR7, and be more power-efficient than it, so it'd give some good mix of GDDR7 and say HBM3.

Realistically there's prob a slim chance HBM will be present but it'd be a present surprise.

Chiplets: In some way I think the PS6 is going to be chiplet-based, because the scalability and flexibility that could bring on the production & manufacturing end of things is just too good to pass up, especially if Sony want to continue making variant/peripheral devices adjacent to the console itself in the ecosystem like, say, a next-gen PS Portal. Being able to source all that to the same wafers cuts down on waste from underutilization of any given wafer.

And of course there are the other benefits for energy efficiency. Latency and bandwidth could be issues but sufficient cache would help with that, plus any innovations with cache management of course. PS5 already has some of that like with the cache scrubbers.

Also: neat logo mockups. They remind me a bit of the PS3's logo with the Italic stylization, but with a color scheme more in line with PS2, PS5 & PS5.

Haven't seen much talk about cooling but I'll like to see them invest in some kind of liquid cooling, in conjunction with liquid metal.

Below image for reference, consist of a fan, radiator, pump and reservoir.
UH40WnL.jpg


Along with quick disconnect tubing for repairability.
X1AUlmd.jpg

Could be interesting if they'd require it. How much do these usually cost for end-customers?
 

LordOfChaos

Member
I'd imagine the absolute explosion in machine learning and inferencing accelerators going on right now is going to be a huge part of where next gen is going. This can be from upscaling to actually intelligent AI to generative lines and animations and so much more.
 
Would development have already started on this?

For sure. Sony usually start planning & designing their next console before the current one even launches. I remember them doing that for PS5 at around the time the PS4 was about to launch, for example.

Does that matter for an APU design?

It does if PCIe 4.0 does, since that's how PS5 is able to support current SSDs on the market (most modern SSDs are PCIe 4.0-based m.2 drives).

Even if the default SSD itself wouldn't require PCIe 5.0 for some reason, the system should still support it so that customers can get the most out of the aftermarket SSDs which'd be available for upgrading.

I'd imagine the absolute explosion in machine learning and inferencing accelerators going on right now is going to be a huge part of where next gen is going. This can be from upscaling to actually intelligent AI to generative lines and animations and so much more.

Yeah. I also feel that way; AMD are probably cooking up some of that in their roadmaps and what isn't there, I can imagine Sony adding customizations to accomplish.

Not to sure about that one.

But this one is around $112.
High performance slim All-In-One liquid cooler
itKFiiK.jpg


Sony should be able to make these themselves for much cheaper.

Guess if they could get it made for half that price it would be worth considering. But it also depends on if it's even needed. Ideally Sony'd want to design the PS6 so they can get as much performance as possible at a sensible budget at as power-efficient a means as possible.
 
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Loxus

Member
Guess if they could get it made for half that price it would be worth considering. But it also depends on if it's even needed. Ideally Sony'd want to design the PS6 so they can get as much performance as possible at a sensible budget at as power-efficient a means as possible.
Around 20W for the pump and 2W for the fan. Those watts are max watts, I would assume it would be less in a console.

I would believe Sony would incorporate those watts into the budget if clocking the GPU/CPU extremely high is a must.
 

Mahavastu

Member
Would development have already started on this?
yes, most likely the basic design with what should be included (e.g. the IO decompression and the SSD on the PS5) and how it will be done (chiplets yes/no, how much cache) should be done by now. Not sure about details like will it be zen X or Zen X+1, or RDNA Y or RDNA Y+1, more like the feature set they would like to have...

Sony does "interviews" with the devs about what the problems with their consoles are and what the devs wish for the next gen. I guess those interviews are done by now.

60 FPS STANDARD ACROSS THE BOARD.

Single player
Multiplayer
Fidelity mode
Performance mode

NO EXCEPTIONS!!!!
We already see on the current gen, that pretty much all games have a 60fps performance mode and in most cases this is the default. And for those 30fps only games like Gotham Knights or Starfield it seems to be more the time used for optimizations then the performance of the consoles.

I do not see a problem with adding an additional 30fps fidelity mode, even if I probably wont use it that often. Never forget, no matter how fast your GPU is, with 30fps you have twice the time per frame as with 60fps, such allowing better graphics and higher base resolutions.
And we know that no matter how fast the PS6 will be, there will be PC graphics cards with several times more performance, because they do have a larger budget (price, die size, energy use).
 
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Audiophile

Gold Member
Even on PS6; I think mandating a true 60fps is out of the question but I think mandating a fixed 40fps mode for any game targeting 30fps (read: "not targeting a fixed 60fps") would be a much nicer compromise.

In addition to likely providing a more solid 30fps mode as well as a 40fps/120Hz frame-tripled mode; this could then be paired with a system-wide, system-level universal HW-accelerated frame generation feature that the user can easily toggle off/on. In turn providing an effective ~60fps+ for all titles. I suspect by then frame-gen (which is already surprisingly good) will be much, much better. Naturally, framerates could be unlocked for VRR displays adding more flexibility.

I'd also like to see some mandates in terms of native, internal pixel counts. I never would have gone for this in the past, but I think we're at a point now with large 4K displays that even with excellent upscaling implementations, dropping below the 35-40% region in terms of native pixel counts just looks bad; making for a poor technical impression for the brand.

I'm all for giving devs freedom but there comes a point where you have to maintain a certain standard of quality for your platform's player base, having games dropping to sub-1080p with poor TU/TAA and sub-30fps on a flagship console is just unacceptable and shouldn't be an option; especially in ~2028 on the first console gen in >20yrs unlikely to have a bump in the primary target output resolution. I'd like to think it'd be more than fair to mandate devs hit these eg. standards below:

- Mandatory/Fixed 30fps (w/ >97% consistency in general play testing) @ a minimum 3,600,000 internal/native pixel count (equivalent to ~2560*1440p)

- Mandatory/Fixed 40fps (w/ >97% consistency in general play testing) @ a minimum 3,000,000 internal/native pixel count (equivalent to ~2304*1296p)

Of course, the benefit for devs by hitting these standards is that they'll get the aforementioned system-wide frame-gen feature; in addition to a system-wide HW-accelerated upscaling feature. These could be circumvented entirely or used only in part by devs who wish to implement their own truly custom functionality in these respects, but minimum native pixel counts and framerates mandates should still be in place to an extent to maintain some degree of guaranteed quality for players. Should upscaling tech drastically improve within the generation, then Sony could adjust/relax these minimum bounds on a case-by-case basis.

Some devs making competitive fast paced games or first person titles will still likely want to go for a native 60fps upfront to completely maximise IQ, consistency/reliability and latency; in which case a lower bound of 1080p or the equivalent pixel count could be mandated. And perhaps in the case of a 40-60fps VRR window, something like 1152p or equivalent.

One last mandate should be a forward compatibility "Future Proof Mode" built-in to all games' settings menus at launch on the PS6. Relying on devs to patch titles isn't, well.....reliable; a lot of devs just don't bother patching their games and so they languish at low framerates and resolutions on newer platforms when they could easily be updated. This should be fully enabled/available at launch and buried at the bottom of a settings menu with a warning that enabling it on current platforms may lead to issues; forward compatible flags will then be in place that bring this option to the forefront as well as prompt users on future platforms (PS6 Pro, PS7 etc.).

The min-max features for this would be unlock the framerate to native 60fps and unlock the resolution to native 4K with a simple toggle; and then there'd be an advanced drop down to enable alternative native resolutions, alternative native fps caps up to/including 120fps, VRR, higher resolution alpha fx, max texture filtering and ai upscaling of textures with real-time retrieval and reinjection. These forward compatibility contingencies would have to be built in to the game with flags that future platforms will know to take advantage of. Just think, you could be running launch PS6 games on a PS6 Pro or PS7 with a native render of 4K @ 120FPS; and playing them in 8K @ 240FPS with the future systems' advanced, universal frame gen and upscaling functionality; with alpha/texture fx scaling reasonably with the res bump too.

I think platform holders [especially Sony] really need to start thinking forward rather than just doing a bunch of half-arsed patch work later on with relatively poor coverage. Some basic forward compatibility contingencies now will maintain backward compatibility better in the future and make it easier. The sooner they get this done, the more platforms will be covered for as time goes by.
 
Last edited:

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Even on PS6; I think mandating a true 60fps is out of the question but I think mandating a fixed 40fps mode for any game targeting 30fps (read: "not targeting a fixed 60fps") would be a much nicer compromise.

In addition to likely providing a more solid 30fps mode as well as a 40fps/120Hz frame-tripled mode; this could then be paired with a system-wide, system-level universal HW-accelerated frame generation feature that the user can easily toggle off/on. In turn providing an effective ~60fps+ for all titles. I suspect by then frame-gen (which is already surprisingly good) will be much, much better. Naturally, framerates could be unlocked for VRR displays adding more flexibility.

I'd also like to see some mandates in terms of native, internal pixel counts. I never would have gone for this in the past, but I think we're at a point now with large 4K displays that even with excellent upscaling implementations, dropping below the 35-40% region in terms of native pixel counts just looks bad; making for a poor technical impression for the brand.

I'm all for giving devs freedom but there comes a point where you have to maintain a certain standard of quality for your platform's player base, having games dropping to sub-1080p with poor TU/TAA and sub-30fps on a flagship console is just unacceptable and shouldn't be an option; especially in ~2028 on the first console gen in >20yrs unlikely to have a bump in the primary target output resolution. I'd like to think it'd be more than fair to mandate devs hit these eg. standards below:

- Mandatory/Fixed 30fps (w/ >97% consistency in general play testing) @ a minimum 3,600,000 internal/native pixel count (equivalent to ~2560*1440p)

- Mandatory/Fixed 40fps (w/ >97% consistency in general play testing) @ a minimum 3,000,000 internal/native pixel count (equivalent to ~2304*1296p)

Of course, the benefit for devs by hitting these standards is that they'll get the aforementioned system-wide frame-gen feature; in addition to a system-wide HW-accelerated upscaling feature. These could be circumvented entirely or used only in part by devs who wish to implement their own truly custom functionality in these respects, but minimum native pixel counts and framerates mandates should still be in place to an extent to maintain some degree of guaranteed quality for players. Should upscaling tech drastically improve within the generation, then Sony could adjust/relax these minimum bounds on a case-by-case basis.

Some devs making competitive fast paced games or first person titles will still likely want to go for a native 60fps upfront to completely maximise IQ, consistency/reliability and latency; in which case a lower bound of 1080p or the equivalent pixel count could be mandated. And perhaps in the case of a 40-60fps VRR window, something like 1152p or equivalent.

One last mandate should be a forward compatibility "Future Proof Mode" built-in to all games' settings menus at launch on the PS6. Relying on devs to patch titles isn't, well.....reliable; a lot of devs just don't bother patching their games and so they languish at low framerates and resolutions on newer platforms when they could easily be updated. This should be fully enabled/available at launch and buried at the bottom of a settings menu with a warning that enabling it on current platforms may lead to issues; forward compatible flags will then be in place that bring this option to the forefront as well as prompt users on future platforms (PS6 Pro, PS7 etc.).

The min-max features for this would be unlock the framerate to native 60fps and unlock the resolution to native 4K with a simple toggle; and then there'd be an advanced drop down to enable alternative native resolutions, alternative native fps caps up to/including 120fps, VRR, higher resolution alpha fx, max texture filtering and ai upscaling of textures with real-time retrieval and reinjection. These forward compatibility contingencies would have to be built in to the game with flags that future platforms will know to take advantage of. Just think, you could be running launch PS6 games on a PS6 Pro or PS7 with a native render of 4K @ 120FPS; and playing them in 8K @ 240FPS with the future systems' advanced, universal frame gen and upscaling functionality; with alpha/texture fx scaling reasonably with the res bump too.

I think platform holders [especially Sony] really need to start thinking forward rather than just doing a bunch of half-arsed patch work later on with relatively poor coverage. Some basic forward compatibility contingencies now will maintain backward compatibility better in the future and make it easier. The sooner they get this done, the more platforms will be covered for as time goes by.
If Steam Deck can do it, these consoles can too. If a game unlocks its framerate in its quality mode and the game hits at least 40 FPS consistently you should be able to lock the maximum refresh rate to whatever it is the minimum framerate you are happy with.

Best would be if the system supported system wide LFC for games or if all games were required to support it (all games published within 1 year of PS6 launching at the very least) which would make VRR min framerate a non issue.
 
Around 20W for the pump and 2W for the fan. Those watts are max watts, I would assume it would be less in a console.

I would believe Sony would incorporate those watts into the budget if clocking the GPU/CPU extremely high is a must.

That's the key part: if it's a must. Hopefully not, because the more exotic the cooling has to be, the more cooling would eat into the BOM.

I don't think it's too unrealistic to get a 40 - 50 TF PS6 in 2027 or 2028 that can hit the same or lower TDP as launch PS5. And 40 - 50 TF should be more than enough for expected visual gains and performance if the right silicon & ASIC customizations are done elsewhere, like for RT and AI. Also may be dependent on going with a chiplet APU design, which may introduce a few latency issues that can be resolved with proper cache and PNM buffers.

Even on PS6; I think mandating a true 60fps is out of the question but I think mandating a fixed 40fps mode for any game targeting 30fps (read: "not targeting a fixed 60fps") would be a much nicer compromise.

In addition to likely providing a more solid 30fps mode as well as a 40fps/120Hz frame-tripled mode; this could then be paired with a system-wide, system-level universal HW-accelerated frame generation feature that the user can easily toggle off/on. In turn providing an effective ~60fps+ for all titles. I suspect by then frame-gen (which is already surprisingly good) will be much, much better. Naturally, framerates could be unlocked for VRR displays adding more flexibility.

I'd also like to see some mandates in terms of native, internal pixel counts. I never would have gone for this in the past, but I think we're at a point now with large 4K displays that even with excellent upscaling implementations, dropping below the 35-40% region in terms of native pixel counts just looks bad; making for a poor technical impression for the brand.

I'm all for giving devs freedom but there comes a point where you have to maintain a certain standard of quality for your platform's player base, having games dropping to sub-1080p with poor TU/TAA and sub-30fps on a flagship console is just unacceptable and shouldn't be an option; especially in ~2028 on the first console gen in >20yrs unlikely to have a bump in the primary target output resolution. I'd like to think it'd be more than fair to mandate devs hit these eg. standards below:

- Mandatory/Fixed 30fps (w/ >97% consistency in general play testing) @ a minimum 3,600,000 internal/native pixel count (equivalent to ~2560*1440p)

- Mandatory/Fixed 40fps (w/ >97% consistency in general play testing) @ a minimum 3,000,000 internal/native pixel count (equivalent to ~2304*1296p)

Of course, the benefit for devs by hitting these standards is that they'll get the aforementioned system-wide frame-gen feature; in addition to a system-wide HW-accelerated upscaling feature. These could be circumvented entirely or used only in part by devs who wish to implement their own truly custom functionality in these respects, but minimum native pixel counts and framerates mandates should still be in place to an extent to maintain some degree of guaranteed quality for players. Should upscaling tech drastically improve within the generation, then Sony could adjust/relax these minimum bounds on a case-by-case basis.

Some devs making competitive fast paced games or first person titles will still likely want to go for a native 60fps upfront to completely maximise IQ, consistency/reliability and latency; in which case a lower bound of 1080p or the equivalent pixel count could be mandated. And perhaps in the case of a 40-60fps VRR window, something like 1152p or equivalent.

One last mandate should be a forward compatibility "Future Proof Mode" built-in to all games' settings menus at launch on the PS6. Relying on devs to patch titles isn't, well.....reliable; a lot of devs just don't bother patching their games and so they languish at low framerates and resolutions on newer platforms when they could easily be updated. This should be fully enabled/available at launch and buried at the bottom of a settings menu with a warning that enabling it on current platforms may lead to issues; forward compatible flags will then be in place that bring this option to the forefront as well as prompt users on future platforms (PS6 Pro, PS7 etc.).

The min-max features for this would be unlock the framerate to native 60fps and unlock the resolution to native 4K with a simple toggle; and then there'd be an advanced drop down to enable alternative native resolutions, alternative native fps caps up to/including 120fps, VRR, higher resolution alpha fx, max texture filtering and ai upscaling of textures with real-time retrieval and reinjection. These forward compatibility contingencies would have to be built in to the game with flags that future platforms will know to take advantage of. Just think, you could be running launch PS6 games on a PS6 Pro or PS7 with a native render of 4K @ 120FPS; and playing them in 8K @ 240FPS with the future systems' advanced, universal frame gen and upscaling functionality; with alpha/texture fx scaling reasonably with the res bump too.

I think platform holders [especially Sony] really need to start thinking forward rather than just doing a bunch of half-arsed patch work later on with relatively poor coverage. Some basic forward compatibility contingencies now will maintain backward compatibility better in the future and make it easier. The sooner they get this done, the more platforms will be covered for as time goes by.

This would be a good idea. With AI upscaling thrown into the picture there is no reason next-gen games should have to target internal resolutions big enough to the point those games can't provide a constant 30 FPS or 40 FPS experience. So it should be fair to provide that as a mandate; with frame generation thrown in those games could certainly offer 60 FPS with same or similar graphics settings to a Fidelity mode, too.

That type of future-proofing needs to be paramount now that BC is an expected standard for modern gaming consoles. It'd also help future consoles level some of the playing field with PC in terms of scalable stable performance of legacy titles.

All analyst agree on saying that despite being a relatively nascent market it already has been taking off and will continue growing the next years.

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It's good that the hardware revenue sees an explosion (if those estimates hold), but VR software revenue looks relatively flat.

Then again, outside of some of the Meta Quest stuff, the most popular VR gaming content seems to be VR modes in traditional (non-VR first) games, like GT7 or RE: Village. There isn't very much VR-specific gaming software console-side. So in a sense the VR software revenue estimates don't tell a full picture.

If Steam Deck can do it, these consoles can too. If a game unlocks its framerate in its quality mode and the game hits at least 40 FPS consistently you should be able to lock the maximum refresh rate to whatever it is the minimum framerate you are happy with.

Best would be if the system supported system wide LFC for games or if all games were required to support it (all games published within 1 year of PS6 launching at the very least) which would make VRR min framerate a non issue.

That should also probably be a mandatory requirement, but knowing how some 3P are when it comes to those sort of optimizations, probably better for Sony to do a system-wide approach as you suggested.

Important thing being: one way or another, it's there and a regular feature.
 
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Edgelord79

Gold Member
We'll see a jump, but it'll be the jump we didn't see this gen.

Backwards compatibility means the gens go forward but the games stay a gen behind.
Fully agree. I think many people are still expecting levels way beyond this. I just don’t see how that will be possible and not have consoles cost over $1000 or more.
 

Mahavastu

Member
LOLz, yea...no they fucking didn't.

Their goal had nothing to do with what we are talking about sir.
That might be, but they had a solution to the problem described:

XBox wanted to make a connection between your purchased disc game license by giving you a digital license for the Xbox app store. This would have enabled you to play the game without putting the game disc into the drive.
Since the disc license would have been registered in the Xbox online store, it would not have been possible to lend / sell the disc to others without losing the license yourself.

Anyway, we know how badly this idea ended, so we do not have to discuss it any further...
 

EDMIX

Member
That might be, but they had a solution to the problem described:

XBox wanted to make a connection between your purchased disc game license by giving you a digital license for the Xbox app store. This would have enabled you to play the game without putting the game disc into the drive.
Since the disc license would have been registered in the Xbox online store, it would not have been possible to lend / sell the disc to others without losing the license yourself.

Anyway, we know how badly this idea ended, so we do not have to discuss it any further...

Well...they didn't have a solution, we are literally trying to find a way for that to make sense.

As to why we didn't reference something like the XONE Launch...
 

RavageX

Member
I think this will be my last console generation. At this point they all seem too PC like, and its no longer a matter of convenience to play. Still downloading patches, large installs and all that jazz.

Not the same anymore.
 
I think the release of the PS6/Xbox Series Z in 2027 will be the start of the AI gaming era. It's only natural since AI is the upcoming big new tech just like how online/HD was in the 2000s. And it would save a shitton of work from developers to code NPC dialogue, attack patterns and whatnot.
 
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That might be, but they had a solution to the problem described:

XBox wanted to make a connection between your purchased disc game license by giving you a digital license for the Xbox app store. This would have enabled you to play the game without putting the game disc into the drive.
Since the disc license would have been registered in the Xbox online store, it would not have been possible to lend / sell the disc to others without losing the license yourself.

Anyway, we know how badly this idea ended, so we do not have to discuss it any further...

There were aspects about MS's intended approach back in 2013 that were feasible, but other aspects which weren't. Not to mention, their approach would have (heck, it still does when you consider how discs are just DRM keys for them now, and pushes like Game Pass) killed off the second-hand market for game sales which certain brick-and-mortar retailers rely on.

Actually the bigger problem with MS's approach was the messaging around it, and things outside of their control like the NSA leaks alongside bad messaging with other aspects of XBO in general. Also, they just tried pushing it too soon. If Sony were to implement something like that for next-gen, for starters they can't turn physical discs into DRM keys; the game data still needs to be on the disc. I also think they could allow someone with a disc to no longer require the disc installed to run the game, while still letting another person (with another user account) borrow the disc to play the game via requiring the disc installed.

And to ensure that other disc is just being loaned out to a family member or friend, and not say an entire group of people (or, sold for cash at a Gamestop while the original purchaser still has the digital license for that game on their console), on Sony's end if they detect someone other than the original purchaser of the disc has gone to use the disc, the original purchaser who installed the disc content to their system digitally is required to re-authenticate ownership of the disc within 14-30 days by re-inserting that specific disc in their system, or they lose the digital license.

Or maybe, whenever a PS6 detects a new game disc is installed, it affixes some system ID to the game disc ID that syncs and transfers over the server side. Meanwhile game discs create a log history of PS6 systems they've been installed in since the time of purchase (that info would have to be stored on servers). Those could be matched with the other IDs and whenever the server detects more than two unique PS6s have accessed the same game disc, the original one with the digital copy of the game installed on it (so that said user no longer has to have the game disc installed to play the game) gives a warning message when the user tries playing the game again to get that game disc back for re-authentication or that digital copy (that was installed from the game disc) gets encrypted and then that user basically has to delete it from their system.

I think this will be my last console generation. At this point they all seem too PC like, and its no longer a matter of convenience to play. Still downloading patches, large installs and all that jazz.

Not the same anymore.

Well, consoles are still much smoother and easy to jump into than PC, where you might have to spend a lot of time tinkering with settings to get optimal performance, especially with a lot of modern PC ports. Sometimes those settings may be simple, other times you might have to mess around with drivers or even registry files, or various system utilities and background processes.

If you're okay with potentially needing to do that, then maybe PC is best.

I think the release of the PS6/Xbox Series Z in 2027 will be the start of the AI gaming era. It's only natural since AI is the upcoming big new tech just like how online/HD was in the 2000s. And it would save a shitton of work from developers to code NPC dialogue, attack patterns and whatnot.

Guess it depends on how AI is implemented. A lot of what you're describing would be SDK/API-related things in the dev pipeline, which is potentially very interesting in itself but also raises some ethical concerns about human labor getting replaced with AI. Hopefully it doesn't become too egregious, and the industry can self-regulate on that before governments feel like they need to step in and do so.

IMO it's easier to think about AI in terms of what AI-centric silicon customizations the consoles themselves can provide. Some other people have mentioned things like AI-driven silicon for automatic LOD management and scaling of LOD settings at runtime (meaning devs don't have to make various types of LODs for each asset in the game; the system can adjust LOD detail on its own by inferencing the position and distance of objects in the framebuffer), which would be great to have.
 
With the ever inflating development time for games I wonder if we get maybe a release from Sucker Punch and Guerrilla on PS6 and then Naughty Dog and Santa Monica will focus on their PS7 title.

-_-
 

RavageX

Member
Well, consoles are still much smoother and easy to jump into than PC, where you might have to spend a lot of time tinkering with settings to get optimal performance, especially with a lot of modern PC ports. Sometimes those settings may be simple, other times you might have to mess around with drivers or even registry files, or various system utilities and background processes.

If you're okay with potentially needing to do that, then maybe PC is best.

For me this was one of the main factors. That and owning the games physically (I still prefer that). As of the past few years though, there haven't been too many games that I've had to mess with. If I want to play on the big screen I might have to mess with a few things but depending on the game I'm fine with playing at my desk or laptop anyhow.

The main reasons why I've slowly (and sadly) moved away from console gaming....all the games are pretty much on PC and almost always cheaper. I don't really have to wait around for sales. I still buy a few games at regular price to support (the new Like A Dragon...if its a physical copy) or if I only want to play the game on console (something like Rockband if it were still good like it used to be).

I want to be a console guy, I have been my whole life. It just hasn't made much since to me financially lately though.
 

Kumomeme

Member
i can see Playstation Portal could be next intergral accesory toward Playstation.

if they play it right, it could add more package value toward the console infuture. especially if they gearing toward streaming at same time.

ofcourse, with better design and price
 
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RavageX

Member
Not if you like Sony or Nintendo games.
That's the thing. Sony games as of late don't really do much for me. Ghosts of Tsushima and PSVR2 related items have been about it. Other games are appearing on PC and with the backlog I have, I don't need to do day one purchases. Nintendo, same deal. I'm not big on most of their first party games anymore. I haven't even finished or barely played BOTW and haven't bought TOTK. Mario stuff I might play when the whim hits me, but a lot of the games I own on the switch are third party. Xbox....Gamepass and the cheap deal they had last month is the only reason I have an X.

Any talk of next gen though doesn't excite me. The games aren't going to look much better, 60fps and the stuff people rant and rave about I don't care about either. It's all the same to me. The games certainly aren't going to get cheaper. If the big push keeps being GAAS and other stuff like Fortnite consider me a complete loss at that point. It could be age but it all feels to be drifting away from what interests me.

Or maybe I just need to step back for a while. Come back to it when its fresh.
 

Audiophile

Gold Member


Had some spare time earlier and got to thinking about chiplets, got a bit carried away with some mockups/concepts for the entire generation. Kind of out there with stacked HBM and all kinds of craziness..

Also, I know there's a strong aversion to the concept of a low-powered, budget system at launch due to the XSS, but I think that's just a matter of poor execution (~40% bandwidth rather than 65-75%, low absolute memory, 1/3 gpu power rather than 1/2-to-2/3 etc.) so I baked the idea of a well-executed lower power system into this, along with "midgen" consoles and a "twilight" console for the transition to the gen afterwards:





 
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sigmaZ

Member
Let reality sink in. A 4090 (Most likely the RTX 4000 series in general) is gonna beat out anything Sony puts out. They are gonna just keep pushing exclusives until their approach is no longer viable and most likely start to fail. I hate having to own a PS5 for exclusive titles. I much rather play the big games on my desktop. I imagine Sony is doing ALOT of R&D into AI upscaling right now to prolong things, so the next iterations of PS will probably be about that, VRR, and fake 8K maybe.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
The visual jumps will also be minimized by the existence of a PS5 Pro. The jump between a PS4 Pro and a PS5 was also not really impressive.

But then again, games looking good is getting boring quite fast. I'd rather see some heavily needed innovations when it comes to AI and general gameplay systems and design. Better graphics is like the lowest hanging fruit at this point.
Unfortunately, a "good-looking game" is easier to market. But the real issue is that you can only do one right now. Make a good-looking game or make a mechanically innovative game. 80% of the time is spent making a game look good with all the latest rendering tech and only like 20% is spent on gameplay/innovations/mechanics. And then the games that push gameplay innovations/mechanics, tend to always look like cartoons/heavily stylized/simplistic. That's not a coincidence. Games that do both a few and far in between.

Before we get to the point where we see devs focusing on things like AI/gameplay/design innovations...etc, we have to get past this visual splendor part. We have to get to a point where if a dev studio spends 20% of their dev time on visuals and presentation, they end up with games that look like CG movies and require very little time and effort to get there. At that point, a "good-looking game" becomes something anyone can do. So now, devs would need to spend that 80% of the dev time on mechanics and gameplay innovations/design to differentiate themselves.

So yeah, better graphics are and has always been the lowest-hanging fruit, and that is why it is what they all try and do.

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Had some spare time earlier and got to thinking about chiplets, got a bit carried away with some mockups/concepts for the entire generation. Kind of out there with stacked HBM and all kinds of craziness..

Also, I know there's a strong aversion to the concept of a low-powered, budget system at launch due to the XSS, but I think that's just a matter of poor execution (~40% bandwidth rather than 65-75%, low absolute memory, 1/3 gpu power rather than 1/2-to-2/3 etc.) so I baked the idea of a well-executed lower power system into this, along with "midgen" consoles and a "twilight" console for the transition to the gen afterwards:




You have even got a PS6pro and PS6 super slim in there... :messenger_open_mouth:
 
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