• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

I Think Disney (Marvel Entertainment & LucusFilms) is slowly realizing the magnitude and potential of Marvel and Star Wars in Gaming.

MegaZoneEX

Member
May 30, 2013
573
896
820
soundcloud.com
Let's clear the air first on a recurring misconception: SPIDER-MAN, SPIDER-MAN: Miles Morales, and the upcoming SPIDER-MAN 2 being exclusive to Playstation is a coincidence. In my off-topic thread, i go into more details on the subject.
it was Marvel Entertainment who approached Sony Interactive Entertainment to publish a game and SIE turned to Insomianc to make said games.
It is Sony Pictures, through Columbia Pictures, that owns the film rights to SPIDER-MAN films: however, video games are Merchandise meaning all rights to SPIDER-MAN games are owned by Marvel Entertainment, not Sony.

Because Disney now owns Marvel Entertainment, they in some way get a % the all MArvel video games.

now

---

Like the title explains, i think Disney right now is testing who in the industry can produce AAA games. obviously, Insomniac Studios has a head start with Marvel Characters like SPIDER-MAN and the upcoming WOLVERINE, while Respawn Entertainment (EA) has Start Wars Fallen Order and Aspyr Media has the upcoming KOTORR.

Single-player, online, mobile, and games as service will appeal to a certain crowd but nonetheless, it will be a great time to be a Marvel / Star Wars fan in the coming years in gaming.
 

killatopak

Member
Aug 29, 2013
14,945
5,437
915
I’m guessing they’re 50-50 still considering how SE handled their ip. No doubt they’re slowly encroaching on gaming though.

Whether that’s good or bad, that’s up in the air.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Amiga and NahaNago

VAVA Mk2

Member
Jun 11, 2018
1,572
2,950
510
Makes you wonder if Disney does end up buying Sony Pictures to get the rights back to it's Spider Man properties and characters so they can do what they want with it in MCU as well as publish to multiple platforms to make more money. They can always spin off what is left of Sony Pictures after they get what they want.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: Bryank75

Catphish

Member
Jan 13, 2017
2,655
4,319
700
Chicago, IL, USA
I’d like to see a team-based Star Wars shooter like Destiny. Imagine a squad with a smuggler, heavy soldier, and a couple of Jedis working together to take shit down in exotic Star Wars locales, with a generous combo of pew pew and Force shit…

Do it. And let the Empire see you do it. 👉
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Rheon

yurinka

Member
Jan 19, 2007
13,801
5,783
1,745
Barcelona, Spain
www.capcom-town.es
MegaZoneEX MegaZoneEX

We had plenty of Star Wars or Marvel games since the 8 bits age, it isn't new. Disney bought Star Wars and Marvel because of being very popular, profitable IPs with a lot of potential to continue milking them in many ways, being games only one of them.

Disney tries to milk their IPs in the best way they can, so they choose who they think can give them the most profitable products. In the case of Sony, they saw a big potential after realizing their great sales and reviews of their single player AAA narrative games, which was a great fit for them. For Sony a Spider-Man game was a big potential to crosspromote their Spider-Man movies and a giant IP. Between their teams, Insomniac was the best fit after looking at Sunset Overdrive gameplay, their humor and tradition of including many weapons.

Spider-Man was an insane hit, so both Disney, Marvel, Sony and Insomniac wanted more. So they agreed to make a sequel, a spin-off and to give them another top Marvel IP.

Somebody please fucking realize e the potential of new original IP.
Sony has over 25 big and small games under development and around half of them are new IPs.

And in the last couple of years or so they published Death Stranding, Dreams, Ghost of Tsushima, Destruction All Stars or Returnal.

They are probably the big publisher that invests more in new IP followed by Ubisoft.
 
Last edited:
Jun 2, 2017
1,436
1,611
505
I believe so as well, and I think the Avengers/Guardians of the Galaxy will be something look back on and learn from - I hope - wishful thinking lol.

MegaZoneEX MegaZoneEX if you were highlighting things they've put out since Disney got over the brands, then you also forgot to mention Jedi Fallen Order..a really solid game in my opinion.

Going forward I just hope they do a good job of matching talent with the brands so we get some good content.
 

Stuart360

Member
Sep 9, 2018
10,056
24,440
770
To be fair there have been something like 28 Star Wars games over the years, a lot of good ones too.
Less so for Marvel but Marvel is prime videogame material.
 

Stuart360

Member
Sep 9, 2018
10,056
24,440
770
Star wars is garbage

 

Fbh

Member
Dec 6, 2013
16,854
13,881
1,070
I'm just glad that while Avengers under performed and Battlefront 2 had a lot of drama on release, games like Spiderman and Jedi Fallen Order did great.
It has opened the path for more fun single player projects like Wolverine, KOTOR Remake and Midnight Suns instead of a never ending wave of GaaS garbage.
 

AlexxKidd

Member
May 23, 2018
1,064
2,628
525
when you say potential u mean giving the IP's to sony? yeah sure. but to EA, Eidos etc no thanks.

This is where I'm at. Marvel/Disney games have been around for years, but something Insomniac's doing just took Marvel into the stratosphere. I don't think they're the only ones capable, I think Rockstar for example could make a great Marvel game, but I just think Insomniac is the only capable studio who actively wants to. This is because, prior to being bought by Sony, Insomniac didn't own any IP (Sunset yes, but that didn't set the world on fire).

Not owning their own IP and being a top notch creme de la creme developer was the perfect storm for Sony/Marvel.

The problem? There's 50 million great comics and only one Insomniac. Based on their production I think it's clear Insomniac could at least get 25 million of those games out in the next five years or so, but who's doing the other half?
 
  • Like
Reactions: fersnake

CamHostage

Member
Sep 30, 2004
6,998
2,139
1,660
I’m guessing they’re 50-50 still considering how SE handled their ip. No doubt they’re slowly encroaching on gaming though.

Whether that’s good or bad, that’s up in the air.

The flop of Avengers (though I think it recovered in sales?) is what it is, but Marvel handing the successful Square Enix an IP to have esteemed Crystal Dymanics create an ambitious concept for a multicharacter brand made sense at the time. It just didn't work perfectly.

Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 is kind of the weird one. It's a little ambitious in scope (and Nintendo did reach out to Team Ninja to sweeten the pot for the pitch,) but it's not the homerun swing attempt that Spider-Man and Avengers were.

(It also exasperates the question... "wtf Xbox can't get a Hulk game?!" They did land the Indiana Jones game, but that's LucasGames, not Marvel, plus it was Bethesda forging that relationship and having the clout for it; Indy was announced before MS/Zenimax was closed, unknown what state the negotiation was before that deal solidified.)
 
Last edited:

RCU005

Member
Nov 9, 2016
642
1,161
540
I believe that Disney is actually making better decisions in gaming division. The first one was to remove the Star Wars exclusivity from EA. Also, I think that Spider-Man 2018 helped them realize they can make great games with huge financial success.

Of course not all games will be great as with any developer or publisher, but they are doing an amazing job lately.
 
Sep 19, 2015
3,110
767
580
Disney is just realizing a changing market. They know the power of their IPs in merchandise, but kids are mainly playing with electronic games instead of toys. They can still sell the latter, but not in numbers like it used to. The former is selling much higher than it used to, especially if it's a well received (i.e.85+ MC score) product.

I don't think it's only Disney realizing this though. Game developers and publishers are also realizing that if it's a new story, AAA game with the care it deserves and not a crappy movie tie-in made by interns then the game will sell gangbusters. Sony realizes this and they had their litmus test with Spider-Man and Miles Morales. It seems the partnership is expanding.

I’m guessing they’re 50-50 still considering how SE handled their ip. No doubt they’re slowly encroaching on gaming though.

Whether that’s good or bad, that’s up in the air.

I have to guess Disney is unhappy with SE. Much like they were with EA and Star Wars. However, they still got paid. There's a minimum guarantee in the tens of millions that the licensee (SE) had to pay regardless how the game sells. That's why SE lost 60+ million and Disney still got paid.

It varies from game to game (I'm sure the minimum guarantee for a Strategy game based on the Midnight Sons is lower than a 3rd person Action Adventure game based on the Avengers).

Somebody please fucking realize e the potential of new original IP.

And is there someone not fed up with fucking Marvel?

New original IPs is higher risk, higher reward. That's a fact.

Returnal would have undoubtedly sold way better if it was called Marvel's Ironman.
Marvel's Spider-Man would have sold way worse if it was called Sunset Overdrive 2.

The higher reward of developing a new TLOU or Uncharted is that you fully control, but even well developed AAA originals sometimes won't sell as much as a licensed game. It's a fine line. I'm guessing the reason SIE is expanding so much and so fast is to be able to still give people original games and sequel to their original IPs as well as handle licensed games from huge franchises.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SynTha1

Roufianos

Member
May 14, 2015
3,117
2,402
645
The thought of getting a constant flow of Star Wars games from studios who've earned it on merit is 😋😋
 
Sep 19, 2015
3,110
767
580
Makes you wonder if Disney does end up buying Sony Pictures to get the rights back to it's Spider Man properties and characters so they can do what they want with it in MCU as well as publish to multiple platforms to make more money. They can always spin off what is left of Sony Pictures after they get what they want.

I don't think Disney will buy Sony Pictures. They need to lower their debt and they're about to owe Comcast a few billion dollars as soon as they reach an agreement based on the arbitration of Hulu's valuation and CMCSA's equity on the JV. It'd be a hard pill for shareholders to swallow if Disney was spending tens of billions to buy SPE at this time.

I don't think they need to buy SPE to get those Marvel rights back from Sony either. All they'd need to do, IMO, is offer Sony a long, favorable term first look to develop games for their franchises. That'd be a win win scenario for both and the numbers are there to make it a worthy venture for both companies, especially since Sony's superhero movies outside the MCU have left a lot to be desired. Venom's net profit was ~250MM, Homecoming was 200MM, FFH was 339MM. NWH net profit will probably be similar to BP if we are back to pre covid level (480MM. 360MM to Sony, 120MM to Disney). Those numbers include home sale.

For games it's nearly impossible to calculate the exact profit without auditing the sales, but using numbers that are common, maybe even conservative, in the game industry we can have an educated guess. Sony doesn't pay console royalty so that's in their pocket. 50% Digital sales. 50% of games sold at $60, 25% sold at $40, 15% sold at 20, 10% sold at $10. Royalty rate of 20%. Game budget for 100MM for Spider-Man 2018, 80MM for Miles Morales. Estimated sales of 20MM for Spidey, 10MM sale for MM by end of year. Using the below figure from onlive that should still be relevant today where it shows the publisher gets 45% of a physical media sale and the split of that take should be 45% to the publisher's coffers/55% to ads/marketing then we get net profits of 306MM and 123MM for SM and MM respectively. If the royalty rate is lowered to 5% then the take would be 431MM and 186MM respectively.



If I use the more realistic number of 70% digital to 30% physical game sales, with 20% royalty rate

Then Sony's profit (including PSN's 30% take) would be 425MM and 183MM. At 5% royalty rate we get 553MM and 247MM profit. I feel pretty confident that Wolverine, Spider-Man 2, KOTOR remake will each sell over 10MM each, likely over 15MM each. Spidey 2 will go over 20MM for sure.

As a reminder, only looking at Sony's physical SW vs digital SW we have 79% digital for FY20 and 81% digital for Q121, so even 70% is conservative.

Again a lot of these numbers are crude estimates. Royalty rates can slide depending on certain things. A game can sell 90% of its copies at 1/10th of the original MSRP and so on. Sony would be tempted on such a deal, but Disney may just want to get 30% royalty for their games or whatever. You get the point though, I don't think Disney will spend $$$ to acquire SPE or even the movie rights back from Sony.
 

VAVA Mk2

Member
Jun 11, 2018
1,572
2,950
510
I don't think Disney will buy Sony Pictures. They need to lower their debt and they're about to owe Comcast a few billion dollars as soon as they reach an agreement based on the arbitration of Hulu's valuation and CMCSA's equity on the JV. It'd be a hard pill for shareholders to swallow if Disney was spending tens of billions to buy SPE at this time.

I don't think they need to buy SPE to get those Marvel rights back from Sony either. All they'd need to do, IMO, is offer Sony a long, favorable term first look to develop games for their franchises. That'd be a win win scenario for both and the numbers are there to make it a worthy venture for both companies, especially since Sony's superhero movies outside the MCU have left a lot to be desired. Venom's net profit was ~250MM, Homecoming was 200MM, FFH was 339MM. NWH net profit will probably be similar to BP if we are back to pre covid level (480MM. 360MM to Sony, 120MM to Disney). Those numbers include home sale.

For games it's nearly impossible to calculate the exact profit without auditing the sales, but using numbers that are common, maybe even conservative, in the game industry we can have an educated guess. Sony doesn't pay console royalty so that's in their pocket. 50% Digital sales. 50% of games sold at $60, 25% sold at $40, 15% sold at 20, 10% sold at $10. Royalty rate of 20%. Game budget for 100MM for Spider-Man 2018, 80MM for Miles Morales. Estimated sales of 20MM for Spidey, 10MM sale for MM by end of year. Using the below figure from onlive that should still be relevant today where it shows the publisher gets 45% of a physical media sale and the split of that take should be 45% to the publisher's coffers/55% to ads/marketing then we get net profits of 306MM and 123MM for SM and MM respectively. If the royalty rate is lowered to 5% then the take would be 431MM and 186MM respectively.



If I use the more realistic number of 70% digital to 30% physical game sales, with 20% royalty rate

Then Sony's profit (including PSN's 30% take) would be 425MM and 183MM. At 5% royalty rate we get 553MM and 247MM profit. I feel pretty confident that Wolverine, Spider-Man 2, KOTOR remake will each sell over 10MM each, likely over 15MM each. Spidey 2 will go over 20MM for sure.

As a reminder, only looking at Sony's physical SW vs digital SW we have 79% digital for FY20 and 81% digital for Q121, so even 70% is conservative.

Again a lot of these numbers are crude estimates. Royalty rates can slide depending on certain things. A game can sell 90% of its copies at 1/10th of the original MSRP and so on. Sony would be tempted on such a deal, but Disney may just want to get 30% royalty for their games or whatever. You get the point though, I don't think Disney will spend $$$ to acquire SPE or even the movie rights back from Sony.
It isn't just about video games. Disney wants full control of all Marvel characters again for MCU in film, TV, and other media. Aside from Spiderman, Sony Pictures has shit to offer anyways.
 
Feb 18, 2019
1,348
1,020
490
Let's clear the air first on a recurring misconception: SPIDER-MAN, SPIDER-MAN: Miles Morales, and the upcoming SPIDER-MAN 2 being exclusive to Playstation is a coincidence. In my off-topic thread, i go into more details on the subject.
it was Marvel Entertainment who approached Sony Interactive Entertainment to publish a game and SIE turned to Insomianc to make said games.
It is Sony Pictures, through Columbia Pictures, that owns the film rights to SPIDER-MAN films: however, video games are Merchandise meaning all rights to SPIDER-MAN games are owned by Marvel Entertainment, not Sony.

Because Disney now owns Marvel Entertainment, they in some way get a % the all MArvel video games.

now

---

Like the title explains, i think Disney right now is testing who in the industry can produce AAA games. obviously, Insomniac Studios has a head start with Marvel Characters like SPIDER-MAN and the upcoming WOLVERINE, while Respawn Entertainment (EA) has Start Wars Fallen Order and Aspyr Media has the upcoming KOTORR.

Single-player, online, mobile, and games as service will appeal to a certain crowd but nonetheless, it will be a great time to be a Marvel / Star Wars fan in the coming years in gaming.
I just need a new game based on the sequel trilogy

Nostalgy is so hard I can't stand it anymore, those games where an absolute blast back in the days

Phantom Menace on ps1, Clone Wars on NGC and Revenge of the Sith are three of the best Star Wars games ever made
 

Corgi1985

Banned
Dec 31, 2020
1,274
2,098
370
In 2003 we got KOTOR, Jedi Academy, and star wars galaxies. That was in a single year while EA continues to give mediocre garbage TRASH when they can even be bothered. Also fallen order sucks.
 

Represent.

Member
Jun 22, 2010
3,491
4,290
1,120
Imagine if DC gave a shit about Superman.

What an embarrassment thats theres no good Supes game. Like what the FUCKK
 
  • Like
Reactions: Amiga

ReBurn

Member
Dec 6, 2008
13,288
4,631
1,240
SC USA
I wish Midnight Suns wasn't card-based strategy whatever and was just straight up action adventure.
 

ReBurn

Member
Dec 6, 2008
13,288
4,631
1,240
SC USA
Imagine if DC gave a shit about Superman.

What an embarrassment thats theres no good Supes game. Like what the FUCKK
Superman is hard to do because he's so overpowered that games based on the character don't make sense unless the enemies are as strong or stronger than him, but if they're stronger than him you don't feel like Superman. It's like him being a ringer in the original cut of the Justice League movie. Once he was in the fight with the bad guy it was an easy victory and the whole thing felt hollow. It's either hollow victories or getting killed by enemies a fraction as powerful as you.
 
Jul 25, 2014
1,361
853
590
Somebody please fucking realize e the potential of new original IP.

And is there someone not fed up with fucking Marvel?


Are you conflating your MCU burnout / fatigue over to games?

There hasn't been 15 Marvel games set in one universe and 3 team up games to boost it's revenue even more.

There's one successful Spider-Man game with a standalone DLC.

Apart from that, there has been Avengers, which is okay at best, and has really terrible gaas model.

The last Marvel game that had any significance in the console/PC space that I could think of was MUA3 (Switch exclusive), MvC Infinite and Deadpool, with years apart from them at release, and two of them multiplatform.

There are 4 upcoming Marvel games, Spider-Man 2, Wolverine, Guardians of the Galaxy and Midnight Suns.

If you consider this being a reason for fans of Marvel (or Sony first party) to be "fed up with fucking Marvel", you're either misguided or chosen to ignore what the competition has been doing for the past decade.

WB/DC has released 2 Injustice games, Arkham Knight, The Telltale Batman QTE games, and are releasing Gotham Knights and Suicide Squad soon, with another secret project at Montreal and another at Rocksteady heavily rumored to be Superman.

It's like saying "too much Halo, because of Halo Wars 2, Halo 5 and MCC, so Infinite shouldn't release! Please work on a new IP, 343i!".

They have a fanbase who consume these titles, and if you don't like it, don't buy it.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Mar 22, 2017
18,280
29,633
1,075
I don’t play or watch any Marvel related media but I’m already sick of them, they like Minions, it’s fucking everywhere.
 

TidusYuna

Member
Apr 3, 2021
265
471
265
I'd love a Captain America game by

Insomniac Games!​

Anything INSOMNIAC touches in the Marvel universe will be great. I want them to make an Iron Man with an arsenal of upgradeable weapons like like Ratchet and different Iron Man Suits like in Spiderman with different abilities. Maybe one day.
 

bender

Candy Corn Aficionado
Apr 12, 2010
11,921
20,777
1,480
Imagine if DC gave a shit about Superman.

What an embarrassment thats theres no good Supes game. Like what the FUCKK

Superman 64 is indicative of the quality of that comic book property.
 

schaft0620

Member
Oct 16, 2013
2,882
487
570
It's really just the new leadership at both Marvel and Lucasarts. John Drake is leading Lucasarts/LucasFilm's game division. Bill Roseman at Marvel knows what people want. These two are fans just like us.
 
Last edited:
Sep 19, 2015
3,110
767
580
It isn't just about video games. Disney wants full control of all Marvel characters again for MCU in film, TV, and other media. Aside from Spiderman, Sony Pictures has shit to offer anyways.
Right. Disney is not really hiding that they want all the rights in house. Marvel also had seller's remorse in the early 2000s. Point is by doing an attractive, long term deal with Sony on the gaming side they could regain those rights while not having to pay a dime out of pocket. Matter of fact they'd be making money too.

SPE has a good TV production side, but it would be better as an Amazon, Apple, or Netflix subsidiary. Either way I'm not sure that's what's happening, but Sony getting exclusive KOTOR and Wolverine on top of what they already got from Disney has perked my curiosity. We know Disney is not giving them to Sony out of the goodness of their hearts. It might still just be good ol' cash. We'll see.
 

MegaZoneEX

Member
May 30, 2013
573
896
820
soundcloud.com
I don't think Disney will buy Sony Pictures. They need to lower their debt and they're about to owe Comcast a few billion dollars as soon as they reach an agreement based on the arbitration of Hulu's valuation and CMCSA's equity on the JV. It'd be a hard pill for shareholders to swallow if Disney was spending tens of billions to buy SPE at this time.

I don't think they need to buy SPE to get those Marvel rights back from Sony either. All they'd need to do, IMO, is offer Sony a long, favorable term first look to develop games for their franchises. That'd be a win win scenario for both and the numbers are there to make it a worthy venture for both companies, especially since Sony's superhero movies outside the MCU have left a lot to be desired. Venom's net profit was ~250MM, Homecoming was 200MM, FFH was 339MM. NWH net profit will probably be similar to BP if we are back to pre covid level (480MM. 360MM to Sony, 120MM to Disney). Those numbers include home sale.

For games it's nearly impossible to calculate the exact profit without auditing the sales, but using numbers that are common, maybe even conservative, in the game industry we can have an educated guess. Sony doesn't pay console royalty so that's in their pocket. 50% Digital sales. 50% of games sold at $60, 25% sold at $40, 15% sold at 20, 10% sold at $10. Royalty rate of 20%. Game budget for 100MM for Spider-Man 2018, 80MM for Miles Morales. Estimated sales of 20MM for Spidey, 10MM sale for MM by end of year. Using the below figure from onlive that should still be relevant today where it shows the publisher gets 45% of a physical media sale and the split of that take should be 45% to the publisher's coffers/55% to ads/marketing then we get net profits of 306MM and 123MM for SM and MM respectively. If the royalty rate is lowered to 5% then the take would be 431MM and 186MM respectively.



If I use the more realistic number of 70% digital to 30% physical game sales, with 20% royalty rate

Then Sony's profit (including PSN's 30% take) would be 425MM and 183MM. At 5% royalty rate we get 553MM and 247MM profit. I feel pretty confident that Wolverine, Spider-Man 2, KOTOR remake will each sell over 10MM each, likely over 15MM each. Spidey 2 will go over 20MM for sure.

As a reminder, only looking at Sony's physical SW vs digital SW we have 79% digital for FY20 and 81% digital for Q121, so even 70% is conservative.

Again a lot of these numbers are crude estimates. Royalty rates can slide depending on certain things. A game can sell 90% of its copies at 1/10th of the original MSRP and so on. Sony would be tempted on such a deal, but Disney may just want to get 30% royalty for their games or whatever. You get the point though, I don't think Disney will spend $$$ to acquire SPE or even the movie rights back from Sony.

Im trying to wrap my head around why any anyone would think Sony would even consider selling Sony Pictures (which is the Parent company of both Columbia and Tristar Pictures and Recently acquired Crunchrolly Funimation).

Why on earth would Sony sell Disney their motion pictures for x amount of money JUST for SPIDERMAN when Sony is CONCURRENTLY trying to build their own MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE!?!?

no.... forget marvel rights, what about all of the move franchises like BAD BOYS, GHOSTBUSTER, Hotel Transylvania, I'm only listing the few i know but their an entire list on live-action game films like Uncharted and Metal Gear in the works.