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[AlexxKidd]

No, I don’t have proof. That is true. Anecdotally though, people here seem to prefer the 30 so it seems a fair bet that most people willin general. At the very least, the lacklustre 60 fps mode doesn’t seem to have hurt sales.

As for the PC thing - anyone (or the vast majority at least) capable of playing Starfield on PC at 60 fps will be doing so, regardless of the performance on XSX. So, again, Starfield’s 30 fps mode will not affect sales.

I don't know if 30fps will hurt Starfield's sales or not, I'm just pointing out that your Final Fantasy XVI comparison is faulty. No. 1, Final Fantasy XVI has 60 fps, and it's perfectly fine. I'm playing through the entire game in performance mode. No. 2, even if it didn't have 60 fps, you don't have a choice on where to play that game - unlike Starfield.

Maybe it will hurt sales, maybe it won't. Just telling you FFXVI is a bad example to use.

 

[killatopak]

Huge enough for me. Day 1 baybeee

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

Maybe it will hurt sales, maybe it won't. Just telling you FFXVI is a bad example to use.

It’s an example that shows people are willing to pay to play at 30 fps. If you don’t like it, there are plenty of other examples.

 

[kiphalfton]

About 350%

 

[{insert code here}]

Would've bought an Xbox for Starfield, might of held onto it for the '24 lineup. Thanks to Gamepass I can just throw down a 10 and get my fix. I imagine there are many others like me (80% of PS5 owners) who are going to do the same. I don't think this is going to move the needle for the box.

 

[Kenshin775]

Maybe a few million more consoles. I bet this game alone will add 10 million more Game Pass subs for MS in the first year mostly on PC.

 

[AlexxKidd]

It’s an example that shows people are willing to pay to play at 30 fps. If you don’t like it, there are plenty of other examples.

Then you should use a game that doesn't have a 60 fps option to make such a point. Unless you're going to provide data showing that everyone buying FFXVI is doing so to play at 30 fps.

 

[The Fuzz damn you!]

Then you should use a game that doesn't have a 60 fps option to make such a point. Unless you're going to provide data showing that everyone buying FFXVI is doing so to play at 30 fps.

I used the example that I used, under the clear-stated premise - based on anecdotal evidence - that the majority of people are playing it at 30 fps. I stand by that, along with FFXVI’s utility as an analogue to Starfield for the purposes of my stated argument. You disagree with my example, and that’s okay. I’m sure you’ll find a way to cope.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Mentioning Final Fantasy is classic console wars.

Starfield will feel like an event - it'll get marketed so heavily that normal people will be aware of it. Final Fantasy may be popular, but it's just another entry in a long running series, comparatively it won't move the needle at all, unlike Starfield. That's what I'm expecting, anyway.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

Devs should actually make games smaller, lighter and maybe with a tiny bit leas detail to lock them to 60.

Sure, let’s hold back gaming in general because consoles haven’t got quite enough power to reach 60fps all the time!

This is a crazy take, the majority of gamers don’t give a shit about 30fps and just want to play the game. Remember that forums and Twitter fanboys are still in the vocal minority.

 

[Stare-Bear]

I think it will break records in active players because it’s free on gamepass. Will anybody buy a console for it? I don’t think so.

Target audience will have a pc or already have a series S/X.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Will anybody buy a console for it? I don’t think so.

Some people already have and people will, definitely.

I'm really surprised that people can't remember the buzz the showcase created for Starfield. It'll be that, but much, much more.

If the game reviews well, it will be a giant hit.

 

[Mahavastu]

Games like starfield will gain them a few percent at most, I think 25% of the market share is the absolute most xbox will ever achieve without Activision.

If xbox buy Activision then 35% is the most they will have.

Have you seen the other thread were we for the first time got hard numbers for the number of sales for the Xbox One?
Despite being a horrible generation for them, they sold 58mio XBox One units, about half what Playstation did. This generation the same, they sold about 21mio units, Playstation was at 38mio a few months ago, so XBox should be again at around half of Playstation.
So if you ignore Nintendo, Xbox already has about 1/3rd of the market, which means 33%. Yes, I was suprised too, because here in Europe XBox does not really exist, and that is way more than I expected for them.

1/3rd means, one party sells twice as much as the other party, which has 2/3rd of the market.

 

[Fredrik]

Yes, I was suprised too, because here in Europe XBox does not really exist

What country? Europe is big. Here in Sweden I think PS5 is selling more but among friends there is no real difference, many are actually still on PS4 and Xbox One, and PC is king. Switch has had a boost after TOTK within the same group of people, lots of new console purchases.

 

[kyussman]

I predict a lot of bragging from Xbox after release featuring lots of large numbers and the word GamePass.

 

[Mahavastu]

What country? Europe is big.

Germany

 

[Fredrik]

Germany

That’s a big market, 2nd after UK in Europe I think, surprised to hear Xbox is dead there. Are there any numbers?

 

[mdkirby]

It’ll help “a bit”. Will it grow gamespass and hardware sales equal the loss of revenue it would have made on PlayStation or as a regular £70 release? Not even remotely anywhere close.

 

[Mahavastu]

That’s a big market, 2nd after UK in Europe I think, surprised to hear Xbox is dead there. Are there any numbers?

I only found these:
https://de.statista.com/statistik/d...satz-der-playstation-5-und-xbox-xs-pro-monat/

Sadly only very limited, no ps4 / xbox one numbers

EDIT: thats world wide numbers, so useless for Germany

 

[Proteus Maximus]

Well, I've ordered a phisical copy for my Xbox Series X, so, that helps.

 

[AlexxKidd]

I used the example that I used, under the clear-stated premise - based on anecdotal evidence - that the majority of people are playing it at 30 fps. I stand by that, along with FFXVI’s utility as an analogue to Starfield for the purposes of my stated argument. You disagree with my example, and that’s okay. I’m sure you’ll find a way to cope.

Ok so you're just talking out of your ass, good to know.

 

[PeteBull]

Are you okay?
I’m legitimately worried about you after this reply.

Nothing wrong with having standards, bro, thats the reason ppl rather play CEMU- switch emulator where zelda looks like this instead of how it looks like on switch(aka somewhere in the middle between ps360 gen games and ps4/xbox one games
Some of us are more techsavy than others, and cant unsee really terrible image quality or framerate anymore, its not late 90s

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Starfield looks amaaaaaaazing but Xbox is doing pretty crud hardware sales

Will the new games shown help move lotsa hardware and gamepass or is it only going to have a small effects like the couples time when Wii U got big games?

It will not, ES6 might. In general sci-fi has a fraction of pull than fantasy.

 

[Tams]

Nothing wrong with having standards, bro, thats the reason ppl rather play CEMU- switch emulator where zelda looks like this instead of how it looks like on switch(aka somewhere in the middle between ps360 gen games and ps4/xbox one games
Some of us are more techsavy than others, and cant unsee really terrible image quality or framerate anymore, its not late 90s

Honestly, that doesn't look that much different to playing it on the Switch...

 

[cash_longfellow]

Nothing wrong with having standards, bro, thats the reason ppl rather play CEMU- switch emulator where zelda looks like this instead of how it looks like on switch(aka somewhere in the middle between ps360 gen games and ps4/xbox one games
Some of us are more techsavy than others, and cant unsee really terrible image quality or framerate anymore, its not late 90s

I was talking more about the language and way you replied. Definitely sounded like you were drunk and/or buzzed . Not mad at you, just legit wanted to make sure you were okay

 

[RoboFu]

|——————| this much.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Not much, but I think it should be a really cool game at least.

 

[PeteBull]

I was talking more about the language and way you replied. Definitely sounded like you were drunk and/or buzzed . Not mad at you, just legit wanted to make sure you were okay

Im not native english speaker, learned the laungage mostly from playing games, reading bodybuilding magazines and watching holywood movies/mtv, so bear with me, bro, still im perfectly communicative and can understand 100% from DF videos so its not too terrible, i would say =P

 

[cash_longfellow]

Im not native english speaker, learned the laungage mostly from playing games, reading bodybuilding magazines and watching holywood movies/mtv, so bear with me, bro, still im perfectly communicative and can understand 100% from DF videos so its not too terrible, i would say =P

I’m just messing with you! I understood it fine, typically on Friday and Saturday nights I’m probably more sarcastic than I should be here. Don’t take offense, and if you did, I definitely don’t mean any disrespect by it

 

[PeteBull]

I’m just messing with you! I understood it fine, typically on Friday and Saturday nights I’m probably more sarcastic than I should be here. Don’t take offense, and if you did, I definitely don’t mean any disrespect by it

no worries, we cool ^^

 

[Pop]

It'll get more people on game pass than it will sell consoles

Winner Winner

I'll be playing on GP much like 90% of others

 

[Fredrik]

Winner Winner

I'll be playing on GP much like 90% of others

And miss out on unrestricted modding in a game even the devs say will be a modder’s paradise?
Nah. Steam is where it’s at. Gamepass version will likely not give you full exe-file access.

 

[TrueGrime]

It will help a bit.

People will buy Series S and gamepass for a month, then collect dust for 7 years until TES6 and another month of gamepass.

People will play Bethesda's biggest RPG in more than a decade for only a month? LMAO.

 

[Fredrik]

People will play Bethesda's biggest RPG in more than a decade for only a month? LMAO.

Lol yeah can you play any RPG for just a month?
This was the year of Elden Ring for me:

So what happened in July?
A No Man’s Sky update

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I voted a little. Even if Starfield turns out to be the game of the generation I don’t think it’ll help them all that much.

They need to release more good/great games that gather hype consistently to really get the ball rolling imo.

Keep telling people that the N64 had GoldenEye, Ocarina of Time, Mario 64, Mario Kart 64, and Smash Bros... and the N64 largely failed...

Not sure a system had as good a lineup as the N64 and lost significant market share from the previous generation. They lost even more market share with the Gamecube despite getting better 3rd party support.

So no, Starfield isn't going to tangibly help Xbox. There is now a mind-share problem that needs to be resolved. July will be a bad month with NPD/Circana and the Q4 2023 Fiscal Earnings for Xbox. Will be very interesting to see what happens with this July 18th deadline and Activision. It looks like they'll prevent the preliminary injunction, but the hearings for the CAT don't start until after the deadline has passed. It will be interesting to see what the CAT thinks if Microsoft closes despite being blocked.

If the deal with Activision doesn't go through, I don't see any avenue for Microsoft to make any tangible in-roads in mind-share.

I think their model is sufficiently broken and almost purpose-built to prevent mind-share growth. By supporting PC day and date, the Xbox platform is diminished. Anyone with interest in any of these individual games can get them on PC and there is no push to buy either a Series S or Series X to play them.

GamePass on PC makes it worth even less since you don't even have to buy the games on PC, you just subscribe until you beat the games you want and then unsubscribe for considerably less money. For 30 dollars you can play Starfield for 3 months on PC. That's extremely destructive.

They've made an argument that if you even like Microsoft games or Bethesda games, the place to play them is on PC.

You get higher framerates and resolutions, it's cheaper, AND you can play non-Xbox games like FF16 and ultimately many SIE games.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Have you seen the other thread were we for the first time got hard numbers for the number of sales for the Xbox One?
Despite being a horrible generation for them, they sold 58mio XBox One units, about half what Playstation did. This generation the same, they sold about 21mio units, Playstation was at 38mio a few months ago, so XBox should be again at around half of Playstation.
So if you ignore Nintendo, Xbox already has about 1/3rd of the market, which means 33%. Yes, I was suprised too, because here in Europe XBox does not really exist, and that is way more than I expected for them.

1/3rd means, one party sells twice as much as the other party, which has 2/3rd of the market.

Your mistake is assuming current rates of adoption will persist, but we already know the rate of adoption for Xbox has DECREASED in year 3 while the rate of adoption for PS5 has INCREASED in year 5.

They were much more in line early in the cycle due to the pandemic and supply chain issues. Now that supply has opened up, Sony has distanced itself from Microsoft in key regions.

XSX supply HAS improved as has demand compared to the rest of the year, but it won't be enough and I don't see it having the legs needed to match the Q4 momentum of the PS5, especially with a slim model, especially if that slim model ends up being cheaper.

So to say they already have 1/3rd of the market as if they've reached the 3rd marker and have solidified 33% of the market, it just isn't true.

If PS5 has sold 40 million and Series has sold 20 million, you're right that is a 3rd of the market, but what happens when PS5 reaches 80 million and the Series is still sitting at 30 million? That's barely over 25% of the market. The cumulative market penetration in the US combined with complete market dominance in Europe and Asia are going to lead to these types of numbers.

For Microsoft to maintain 33 percent of the market, they need to run largely in line with Sony in the US and that just isn't happening. Unless Spider-Man 2 comes out as a total flop, I don't see the momentum shifting.

 

[Shiny Pepe]

A little,starfield is not TES. 30 fps is no bueno.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Mentioning Final Fantasy is classic console wars.

Starfield will feel like an event - it'll get marketed so heavily that normal people will be aware of it. Final Fantasy may be popular, but it's just another entry in a long running series, comparatively it won't move the needle at all, unlike Starfield. That's what I'm expecting, anyway.

Final Fantasy is one of the most established franchises in all of gaming. It doesn't need half the advertising that Starfield needs in order to reach mass attention.

Starfield will probably get the largest media budget for a video game this generation and even if it wins GOTY, it's still going to struggle to hit B2P numbers because of GamePass. As a result Microsoft will wheel out total players, which is always misleading.

In a perfect scenario, Starfield still won't move the needle because its presence on PC and GamePass and that is on Microsoft. They are going to spend millions advertising the game but it's going to have a ceiling.

It's not a family game like Mario Kart. Elden Ring sold 20 million copies across PC, Xbox Series, Xbox One, PS4, and PS5... and it was GOTY. Remove PS4 and PS5 and what happens? That's at least 7-8 million units removed from the equation. If Starfield matches Elden Ring minus PlayStation, you still have the majority of those sales and experiences probably happening on PC rather than Xbox...So if this does 6 million on Xbox that only puts it in the ballpark of Halo 5 and Witcher 3 on Xbox One...

FF16 has already sold 3 million units...

 

[Fabieter]

It will have a bigger impact on gamepass than on hardware.

 

[Fredrik]

By supporting PC day and date, the Xbox platform is diminished. Anyone with interest in any of these individual games can get them on PC and there is no push to buy either a Series S or Series X to play them.

If that’s true then why the concern over potential exclusives if they buy Activision Blizzard?

Having the games on PC day 1 is fantastic but let’s not pretend that everyone interested want or can go out and buy a gaming PC. That was not true last gen when that started and it’s even less true now with the current prices on PC hardware. There are people even here on this board that say they’ll never buy a PC, or think it’s too complicated, core gamers. Imagine how it is for mainstream gamers who normally buy maybe 1-2 games per year and only buy consoles at Black Friday years into the generation.

The upside is that it makes any exclusivity deal less problematic among those who already have a PC, no waiting for the often improved PC versions and PS and Nintendo fans with PCs can enjoy the games same time as everyone else. It’s great. And the games will have a big core gamer audience even at the start of a console generation.

 

[Robb]

I think their model is sufficiently broken and almost purpose-built to prevent mind-share growth. By supporting PC day and date, the Xbox platform is diminished. Anyone with interest in any of these individual games can get them on PC and there is no push to buy either a Series S or Series X to play them.

I think there’s many pieces to this puzzle, and I’m not even sure if supporting PC is necessarily a problem. But with both Sony and Nintendo there’s a strong Identity and excitement behind/around the brand.

Sony can just show a controller emerging from white dust and fans will go crazy. Nintendo can release vague concept art of the next Zelda and fans will discuss it for years. And with both Sony and Nintendo you roughly know what you’re in for when it comes to software, and you know it’ll be pretty freaking good.

I don’t really get any of that brand excitement with Xbox. It’s kind of just ‘there’.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I think there’s many pieces to this puzzle, and I’m not even sure if supporting PC is necessarily a problem. But with both Sony and Nintendo there’s a strong Identity and excitement behind/around the brand.

Sony can just show a controller emerging from white dust and fans will go crazy. Nintendo can release vague concept art of the next Zelda and fans will discuss it for years. And with both Sony and Nintendo you roughly know what you’re in for when it comes to software, and you know it’ll be pretty freaking good.

I don’t really get any of that brand excitement with Xbox. It’s kind of just ‘there’.

When you have a platform (that you don't make money selling) and you're actively pushing for revenue in a separate market that doesn't generate royalties for you, you're absolutely hurting yourself.

It's why Nintendo doesn't sell games on other platforms and why Sony only does it after a period of time. Nintendo makes money on Switch hardware sales, they don't want to depress that by supporting PC, even if their games would sell like gangbusters. I think you might see Switch ports to PC at some point though. Once the hardware is EOL.

Microsoft has actively diminished its brand by pushing its fanbase and potential new fanbase to PC. There is a quick return that helps potentially with the losses incurred from GamePass, but long term it is devastating to their brand.

With 3rd parties supporting PC more consistently these days, 1st party exclusivity matters even more in the console segment and Microsoft is going the other way on it.

The XSX isn't the best Xbox, PC is.

You might be able to play Spider-Man Miles Morales at better frames and resolution than PS5, but you had to wait 2 years to get it.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

If that’s true then why the concern over potential exclusives if they buy Activision Blizzard?

Having the games on PC day 1 is fantastic but let’s not pretend that everyone interested want or can go out and buy a gaming PC. That was not true last gen when that started and it’s even less true now with the current prices on PC hardware. There are people even here on this board that say they’ll never buy a PC, or think it’s too complicated, core gamers. Imagine how it is for mainstream gamers who normally buy maybe 1-2 games per year and only buy consoles at Black Friday years into the generation.

The upside is that it makes any exclusivity deal less problematic among those who already have a PC, no waiting for the often improved PC versions and PS and Nintendo fans with PCs can enjoy the games same time as everyone else. It’s great. And the games will have a big core gamer audience even at the start of a console generation.

Millions of people play ABK games on PlayStation consoles. Regulators have a duty to those consumers to ensure Microsoft isn't using unfair competitive practices to ensure foreclosure.

What I'm saying is that anyone remotely interested in Xbox is better suited BY FAR in buying a PC. With the exception of cost there isn't a single advantage to owning an XSX. It's basically a mid tier Xbox with PC being upper tier. There are A LOT of configurations you can make to create a better console than XSX on PC, you don't even have to get crazy with cost.

Microsoft has gifted Sony the mindshare battle more than any platform holder I've seen since Sega announced the Dreamcast less than 3 years after the Saturn.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Final Fantasy is one of the most established franchises in all of gaming. It doesn't need half the advertising that Starfield needs in order to reach mass attention.

Starfield will probably get the largest media budget for a video game this generation and even if it wins GOTY, it's still going to struggle to hit B2P numbers because of GamePass. As a result Microsoft will wheel out total players, which is always misleading.

In a perfect scenario, Starfield still won't move the needle because its presence on PC and GamePass and that is on Microsoft. They are going to spend millions advertising the game but it's going to have a ceiling.

It's not a family game like Mario Kart. Elden Ring sold 20 million copies across PC, Xbox Series, Xbox One, PS4, and PS5... and it was GOTY. Remove PS4 and PS5 and what happens? That's at least 7-8 million units removed from the equation. If Starfield matches Elden Ring minus PlayStation, you still have the majority of those sales and experiences probably happening on PC rather than Xbox...So if this does 6 million on Xbox that only puts it in the ballpark of Halo 5 and Witcher 3 on Xbox One...

FF16 has already sold 3 million units...

Since it seems unclear to you, what I'm saying is that Starfield will be something that will be talked about and will likely reach mass market conscience in a way that the latest installment of Final Fantasy has not.

There's no need to cry about that and to start reaching for sales figures so you can defensively console war some more.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Since it seems unclear to you, what I'm saying is that Starfield will be something that will be talked about and will likely reach mass market conscience in a way that the latest installment of Final Fantasy has not.

There's no need to cry about that and to start reaching for sales figures so you can defensively console war some more.

Reach for objective metrics? So much for being Mr. Reasonable.

Yeah, let's pretend Xbox fans talking about the only game worth talking about on the platform makes this game a larger success than what appears to be the best Final Fantasy game in 20 years...

You're clearly the one console warring here...

 

[Fredrik]

Millions of people play ABK games on PlayStation consoles. Regulators have a duty to those consumers to ensure Microsoft isn't using unfair competitive practices to ensure foreclosure.

What I'm saying is that anyone remotely interested in Xbox is better suited BY FAR in buying a PC. With the exception of cost there isn't a single advantage to owning an XSX. It's basically a mid tier Xbox with PC being upper tier. There are A LOT of configurations you can make to create a better console than XSX on PC, you don't even have to get crazy with cost.

Microsoft has gifted Sony the mindshare battle more than any platform holder I've seen since Sega announced the Dreamcast less than 3 years after the Saturn.

Better suited, yes if they have the money, but you said everybody interested could just play on PC.
”Anyone with interest in any of these individual games can get them on PC”

Again, not everyone want to have or can buy a PC. It’ll never be a valid solution for everyone.
The reality is that for a mainstream console gamer who just want to play a great MS exclusive it’s a big ass mountain to climb. Even a Series S is at least a hill to crawl over just because they’re forced to do it over one game, but maybe they’ll do that anyway on some sale we’ll see.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Reach for objective metrics? So much for being Mr. Reasonable.

Yeah, let's pretend Xbox fans talking about the only game worth talking about on the platform makes this game a larger success than what appears to be the best Final Fantasy game in 20 years...

You're clearly the one console warring here...

Ok, have a nice day.