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Horizon Forbidden West - Gameplay Trailer

DForce

Member
This is sadly the case, I'm just flabbergasted at some claiming Aloy is more detailed than Senua 🙄 even if you convinced yourself Aloy looks better the motion capture tech on Senua is leaps and bounds better.

It should be easy for people to offer a rebuttal to my claim, but I have yet to see one.

What's really flabbergasted is that people who think I'm delusional are likely the same people who think the new trailer from HB2 is of the same level of quality as the 2019 trailer.
 
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Haggard

Member
Not sure about that, I think that these console can handle this graphic in a small scope game.
I actually think that these graphics are entirely possible for open world using UE5 at least.
The whole point of Nanite is to keep Geometry-cost stable no matter how much you see on the screen.

The issue is the same as last gen, though. The performance cost rises exponentially the more dynamic a scene becomes, especially when it comes to lighting. Lumen, and especially the RT part of it will always be expensive.
I´expect we`ll get absolutely phenomenal looking worlds but they`ll once again be mostly static.
 

Markio128

Member
Well, at least every thread hasn’t become a pissing contest, that’s the main thing.
John Legend A Legendary Christmas GIF by NBC
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
The Matrix proves they can manage even better graphic in a large scale game
The matrix is a tech demo with limited interactions, not an open world.

But yeah when ue5 is gonna be used to create actual games i expect big things from it.

Not sure WHEN we are gonna see the first open world game with that engine tho.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
I actually think that these graphics are entirely possible for open world using UE5 at least.
The whole point of Nanite is to keep Geometry-cost stable no matter how much you see on the screen.

The issue is the same as last gen, though. The performance cost rises exponentially the more dynamic a scene becomes, especially when it comes to lighting. Lumen, and especially the RT part of it will always be expensive.
I´expect we`ll get absolutely phenomenal looking worlds but they`ll once again be mostly static.
Yeah like i said i expect big things from the ue5 but we are still far from seeing a full fledged ue5 open world game.

And when i say open world i don't mean something barren like forspoken but something more like horizon with dozens of high detailed enemies\characters on screen and locations with high polygon count\geometry.

Curious to see how horizon 3 with decima engine unshackled from the ps4 is gonna fair against an open world made with ue5.
 
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xPikYx

Member
The matrix is a tech demo with limited interactions, not an open world.

But yeah when ue5 is gonna be used to create actual games i expect big things.

Not sure when we are gonna see the first open world game with that engine tho.
Limited interaction? Once you can drive a car and make accidents I don't think there is heavier "interaction" with the world, also you can change various parameters and also fly with the camera
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Limited interaction? Once you can drive a car and make accidents I don't think there is heavier "interaction" with the world, also you can change various parameters and also fly with the camera
It is still limited because it's a tech demo, in an open world you can go wherever you want and do whatever you want.

You don't wanna really compare a tech demo to a full fledged open world game...stuff like just cause 4 has actual tornadoes that move and destroy hundreds of objects, cars etc.

Far cry has a lot of sandboxy stuff where you can create hell on screen between enemies and allies etc.

Matrix is a controlled environment and causing car crashes is nothing special.

I can admit that we don't know how good looking are gonna be the open world games made with ue5, but matrix is not the right example.
 
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It should be easy for people to offer a rebuttal to my claim, but I have yet to see one.

What's really flabbergasted is that people who think I'm delusional are likely the same people who think the new trailer from HB2 is of the same level of quality as the 2019 trailer.
There is no need for a rebuttal as you put it, both videos are available to watch. You posting a screenshot is silly when we can watch the trailers and the difference in fidelity is significant. I'm pretty sure this is you trolling if I'm perfectly honest, HB2 is a window to what we can expect as this generation moves forward (not a PS vs Xbox console BS). HFW is a very nice looking game but it's very much rooted in last gen tech, that's about as simple as I can put it for you friend.
 

DForce

Member
There is no need for a rebuttal as you put it, both videos are available to watch. You posting a screenshot is silly when we can watch the trailers and the difference in fidelity is significant. I'm pretty sure this is you trolling if I'm perfectly honest, HB2 is a window to what we can expect as this generation moves forward (not a PS vs Xbox console BS). HFW is a very nice looking game but it's very much rooted in last gen tech, that's about as simple as I can put it for you friend.
People see both the 2019 and 2021 HB2 trailers and think the only difference is the textures and lighting when it's clearly not. If it was clearly identifiable, then it would easily be pointed out in the trailer.


If it was a league or a generation ahead of HFW, then the character model would look much better than what was shown in the trailer. If you can't spot out the low-quality texture (which is probably the result of hardware limitations) then I really can't take you seriously.
 

The artful mincer

Gold Member
Here's my take on the whole cross gen thing regarding just Horizon

I'm not fussed about it I was a little bummed at first but after thinking about it's no big deal it maybe even a blessing in disguise. Considering when Zero dawn was released it's not real surprising, chance's are it was originally a PS4 release.( The same argument can not be made for Ragnarok) however It still looks incredible and more importantly it's coming out in 2 months.

Here's the thing the combat is the Centre of Horizon. My biggest concern is lack of new enemy variety. With the game being cross gen Guerilla can really make sure they will be enough new machines as well as new content in general. If the game had been a next gen exclusive it would have either lacked content or we would be waiting far longer for it. 3 to 5 years is about the sweetspot I like to wait. Familiarity breeds contempt (How many yearly release are you truly excited about?) and 6+ years is just too long that's one game a generation.

Fact is in February 2022 it will likely be one of if not the best looking console game and it will have WAY MORE content. Think of the other next gen exclusive's so far. Ratchet, Returnal, Demon souls remake etc. Forbidden West is gonna be a way bigger more ambitious game while looking just as good.

The UE5 engine matrix demo looks way better but there's been one game announced so far that that I 'am aware of (Dragon Quest 12) those games will come but I think 2023 at the earliest.

So that's my take on it admittedly it could just be Stockholm Syndrome.
 

xPikYx

Member
It is still limited because it's a tech demo, in an open world you can go wherever you want and do whatever you want.

You don't wanna really compare a tech demo to a full fledged open world game...stuff like just cause 4 has actual tornadoes that move and destroy hundreds of objects, cars etc.

Far cry has a lot of sandboxy stuff where you can create hell on screen between enemies and allies etc.

Matrix is a controlled environment and causing car crashes is nothing special.

I can admit that we don't know how good looking are gonna be the open world games made with ue5, but matrix is not the right example.
I think that in 2023 will come the real next generation of games released exclusively for the new hardware, and like hellblade 2 and the Matrix, these games will be on a different league, don't forget the Matrix despite the games you named, has ray tracing all over the place too which is heavy resources consuming, Horizon doesn't have that. Imagine now Death Stranding, how that game could be running on Unreal Engine 5? For me would be a real movie.
 

BbMajor7th

Member
What a stupid and pointless way to define it lmao

What the hell is capcom, or square then? They're making multiplats and exclusives simultaniously

I'm convinced you're just coming up with this on the fly. You've probably confused yourself

The missing distinction in this conversation is between publishing and development. Most major platform holders have first-party publishing and third-party relations (sometimes called 'partnership marketing'), but these are both separate from internal development studios (who often having their own marketing, PR and social teams). Games that a platform holder is publishing are handled by the first party publishing team and games that aren't, are not. It doesn't really matter who was developing the game or who has ownership of the intellectual property, these are additional goal posts only set up by people on the internet who want to indulge in list wars.
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
I think that in 2023 will come the real next generation of games released exclusively for the new hardware, and like hellblade 2 and the Matrix, these games will be on a different league, don't forget the Matrix despite the games you named, has ray tracing all over the place too which is heavy resources consuming, Horizon doesn't have that. Imagine now Death Stranding, how that game could be running on Unreal Engine 5? For me would be a real movie.
Yeah i can't wait to see proper next gen games.

But The real test is gonna be something with a less barren world than DS.
Let's see if they can handle something like a far cry or assassins creed, not because i like these games, but because they are usually the heaviest open world games between sheer number of npcs on screen or for their sandboxy gameplay where hell on screen can begin from nothing.
 

xPikYx

Member
Yeah i can't wait to see proper next gen games.

But The real test is gonna be something with a less barren world than DS.
Let's see if they can handle something like a far cry or assassins creed, not because i like these games, but because they are usually the heaviest open world games between sheer number of npcs on screen or for their sandboxy gameplay where hell on screen can begin from nothing.
They could start from lowering down the resolution and targeting 30fps, we'll see great results, with unreal engine 5 1440p@30fps should deliver great experiences on base consoles, then will come pro ones and they can try bumping up resolution, framerate and perhaps scale up the ray tracing
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
In hindsight, does anyone think that HZD was better than people gave it credit for?
It was always good, but you had people making moronic comparison with botw in every topic trying to shit on the game.

And the crowd with open world fatigue who enter in every topic about open world to let us know their feelings even if they hate the genre.

Not a perfect game in the slightest, it was my gotg but i onestly score the game an 8\10 with gigantic margin of improvements.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
They could start from lowering down the resolution and targeting 30fps, we'll see great results, with unreal engine 5 1440p@30fps should deliver great experiences on base consoles, then will come pro ones and they can try bumping up resolution, framerate and perhaps scale up the ray tracing
Yep, unlike some dreamers, i'm well aware that 4k and 60 frames are not gonna be a thing in the future if we want a jump in graphic on console.
 

SlimySnake

Member
The matrix is a tech demo with limited interactions, not an open world.
Let's not dismiss the Matrix as a linear tech demo like the first UE5 demo on the PS5 or even the Valley of the Ancient Demo on PC. This is a fully detailed open world with traffic and pedestrian sims. With chaos physics applied to every single car in the open world. The only thing missing is shooting, enemy A.I, and pedestrian interactions. And they do interact with each other and you when you stand in front of them, just not when you are in the car.

They have also said that they left a lot of CPU headroom on purpose to ensure they did not go over budget and allowed for devs to implement game logic without removing any features present here.
The team had a CPU, Graphics and performance budget when making the Experience. For example, when the CG characters are on white, there is no background and so that “allowed me to use more Ray-traced area lights,” Pete recalls. “Whereas when we got into the car, we had to budget for the complex background, so I had to use less lights.” When the project first came together it only ran at 15 fps but as things were optimized the frame rate rapidly shot up. “But when we started everything was way over budget, we used a lot of 4K textures, a lot of geometry, Lumen, – which had a cost of its own, a new shadow maps technique for the sunlight – originally we were basically pushing the limits of everything.” The final experience however is indicative of what is possible for a game, running on a PS5 or XBox Series X/S there is still a lot of CPU headroom that would allow a game designer to run the normal mechanics of a game. The team did not want to build a demo that was unrealistic for what a new AAA game would be able to achieve.
 

Tripolygon

Member
It should be easy for people to offer a rebuttal to my claim, but I have yet to see one.

What's really flabbergasted is that people who think I'm delusional are likely the same people who think the new trailer from HB2 is of the same level of quality as the 2019 trailer.
Neither game looks "better" than the other. They are stylistically different games, one is vibrant and colorful, the other is dark and gritty, one is open-world while the other is extremely linear. You make certain trade-offs with these.

Which character is more detailed you really can't say until you look at the underlying geometry. In the first game, Senua highest LOD was made of 125K triangles, Elena Fisher in Uncharted 4 was made of 139K triangles, Alloy's hair alone is 100K triangles and the thunderjaw is 500K triangles. What also plays a role in how good a character looks is lighting that is why Alloy in forbidden west now has a rim light following her.
 
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Damn who the fuck cares? HFW is coming out in two months, lets talk about the game.

I dont know what happened recently but everyone seems absolutely stuck on stupid with these two games, especially on twitter. They have absolutely nothing in common with each other, not one thing.

Go compare random games in another thread
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
Let's not dismiss the Matrix as a linear tech demo like the first UE5 demo on the PS5 or even the Valley of the Ancient Demo on PC. This is a fully detailed open world with traffic and pedestrian sims. With chaos physics applied to every single car in the open world. The only thing missing is shooting, enemy A.I, and pedestrian interactions. And they do interact with each other and you when you stand in front of them, just not when you are in the car.

They have also said that they left a lot of CPU headroom on purpose to ensure they did not go over budget and allowed for devs to implement game logic without removing any features present here.
I'm not dismissing anything by calling it a tech demo because the thing is a tech demo.

It is not a playable demo of an actual game, it is not an alpha or a beta of a complete game so what definition we have left?
 

Kev Kev

Gold Member
So judging from that trailer, this game revolves around combat? Not exploration and adventure?

I’ll wait for more trailers but judging from this one, no thanks, I’m kind of tired of combat in games, which is a weird take I know…

I just want to explore a world, have puzzles to do, collectibles to find and maybe a little combat sprinkled in there, but mostly just for hunting or resource gathering.

I was hoping this game was going to be like that but I don’t know yet, I’ll check out more gameplay videos.
 
So judging from that trailer, this game revolves around combat? Not exploration and adventure?

I’ll wait for more trailers but judging from this one, no thanks, I’m kind of tired of combat in games, which is a weird take I know…

I just want to explore a world, have puzzles to do, collectibles to find and maybe a little combat sprinkled in there, but mostly just for hunting or resource gathering.

I was hoping this game was going to be like that but I don’t know yet, I’ll check out more gameplay videos.

Just play the first game and you'll know what to expect
 

SlimySnake

Member
So judging from that trailer, this game revolves around combat? Not exploration and adventure?

I’ll wait for more trailers but judging from this one, no thanks, I’m kind of tired of combat in games, which is a weird take I know…

I just want to explore a world, have puzzles to do, collectibles to find and maybe a little combat sprinkled in there, but mostly just for hunting or resource gathering.

I was hoping this game was going to be like that but I don’t know yet, I’ll check out more gameplay videos.
They have a fantastic combat engine and they leaned on that for the first game. It was what set it apart from Zelda which focused on exploration and puzzles. So yeah, BOTW 2 is probably the game for you next year.
 

T0minator

Member
So judging from that trailer, this game revolves around combat? Not exploration and adventure?

I just want to explore a world, have puzzles to do, collectibles to find and maybe a little combat sprinkled in there, but mostly just for hunting or resource gathering.
Well judging a game based off of a new enemies and combat trailer that's what you're going to mainly see.

Of course there's going to be exploration and puzzles. It's going to have bits of everything in HFW. There's no issues there.

On a side note:
They actually went as far as having peach fuzz on her face... That's incredible 👌🏼
 
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Woggleman

Member
The combat against machines in the first game is among the best so why wouldn't they double down on it? It also had a lot of collectibles which added a lot to the lore and I expect the sequel to do the same.
 

Kev Kev

Gold Member
Of course there's going to be exploration and puzzles. It's going to have bits of everything in HFW. There's no issues there.

Sounds good but they isn’t show that in this trailer. Any trailer where they are showing that kind of stuff? Legit question I’m not being facetious…

I think this only the second trailer I’ve seen so far but I dunno, I’m not following the game close because it looks like there its more combat heavy than I’m interested in.

This particular trailer, for instance, shows nothing but combat, so there is no way I could think to myself “of course there will be exploration” based on what I saw. They didn’t show that.

I’ll keep looking out for more gameplay videos and stuff, but that trailer is dull and uninteresting to me, which is kind of a hot take. I’m probably in the minority there because most gamers enjoy combat, but I am just so over combat heavy games atm.
 

Punished Miku

Gold Member
Sounds good but they isn’t show that in this trailer. Any trailer where they are showing that kind of stuff? Legit question I’m not being facetious…

I think this only the second trailer I’ve seen so far but I dunno, I’m not following the game close because it looks like there its more combat heavy than I’m interested in.

This particular trailer, for instance, shows nothing but combat, so there is no way I could think to myself “of course there will be exploration” based on what I saw. They didn’t show that.

I’ll keep looking out for more gameplay videos and stuff, but that trailer is dull and uninteresting to me, which is kind of a hot take. I’m probably in the minority there because most gamers enjoy combat, but I am just so over combat heavy games atm.
The first trailer shows exploration. More emphasis on climbing. I think they're procedurally generating climb spots all over the world to kind of emulate the Breath of the Wild climb freedom. Glider also like Breath of the Wild.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
So judging from that trailer, this game revolves around combat? Not exploration and adventure?

I’ll wait for more trailers but judging from this one, no thanks, I’m kind of tired of combat in games, which is a weird take I know…

I just want to explore a world, have puzzles to do, collectibles to find and maybe a little combat sprinkled in there, but mostly just for hunting or resource gathering.

I was hoping this game was going to be like that but I don’t know yet, I’ll check out more gameplay videos.
Buy botw 2 for that.

Horizon 2 is probably gonna be combat centric like the first one.

Although they talked about small puzzles and better explorations for the sequel.

Like you can use the grapple hook not only for climbing but to move out some heavy stuff to discover loot and shit hided behind.
 
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T0minator

Member
Sounds good but they isn’t show that in this trailer. Any trailer where they are showing that kind of stuff? Legit question I’m not being facetious…

I think this only the second trailer I’ve seen so far but I dunno, I’m not following the game close because it looks like there its more combat heavy than I’m interested in.

This particular trailer, for instance, shows nothing but combat, so there is no way I could think to myself “of course there will be exploration” based on what I saw. They didn’t show that.

I’ll keep looking out for more gameplay videos and stuff, but that trailer is dull and uninteresting to me, which is kind of a hot take. I’m probably in the minority there because most gamers enjoy combat, but I am just so over combat heavy games atm.
They're expanding on what made the game great, and working on what opportunities they had, mainly combat with humans and traversal. Check out that original trailer from that Future of Gaming showcase. It shows different areas we'll explore. Obviously not showing any puzzles. But I don't see Herman Hulst the head of PlayStation letting this game be anything less than spectacular. He directed the original. It's a special IP for him. HFW is going to be everything x 100.. They're taking it all to the next level
 
...the difference in fidelity is significant.

It's not.

Remember during the early smartphone years when phone debates were all the rage? Those have fallen by the wayside because people don't appreciate the differences anymore. We've reached the point where very few people can see the differences between Aloy and Senua.

99/100 people would look at you funny if you said the difference in fidelity is significant.

The art style is what people now notice.
 
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Well judging a game based off of a new enemies and combat trailer that's what you're going to mainly see.

Of course there's going to be exploration and puzzles. It's going to have bits of everything in HFW. There's no issues there.

On a side note:
They actually went as far as having peach fuzz on her face... That's incredible 👌🏼 🍐

It’s crazy how overlooked something like this is but how much it adds to making the characters just a bit more lifelike. It’s not something i ever even thought about but seeing it now seems so obvious. Has any other game had that on their characters?

I think they’re showing the combat in the gameplay trailers and clips because it was one of the bigger weak points in the first game. The melee and human combat specifically. They’re trying to highlight the variety of bow/staff combos and increased traversal. It’s also makes it look more fun than just running across fields and climbing. I assume the open world exploration stuff will be highlighted whenever they do their big gameplay deep dive like Ghost of Tsushima’s state of play.

This is from the blog:

Building upon the foundation of Horizon Zero Dawn, we have added a number of new ways to move through the world,” says David McMullen, Lead Systems Designer at Guerrilla. “Aloy can climb freely on and across huge sections of rocky terrain; even more machine types can be used as mounts; grapple points can be found throughout the environment which allows agile vertical traversal; swimming underwater has opened up a whole new aspect of exploration; and gliding with the Shieldwing provides the ultimate view of the beautiful world of Horizon Forbidden West – not to mention a quick way down from great heights!”

Now that Aloy can climb freely, swim underwater, glide with her Shieldwing, and grapple certain sections of terrain, movement is more streamlined and fluid. Of course, this design choice was not made lightly. McMullen states that Guerilla Games wanted to empower the player in nuanced ways:

“Our traversal design decisions were always in service of increasing dynamic interactivity with the world around you. This could be to empower the player to manipulate and destroy their environment with a tool like the Pullcaster; or grapple-launching into a glide with the Shieldwing to set yourself up for a strike from above. What excites us most is how our mechanics, new and old, synergistically interact with each other to provide varied and dynamic approaches to any scenario.”
 
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T0minator

Member
It’s crazy how overlooked something like this is but how much it adds to making the characters just a bit more lifelike. It’s not something i ever even thought about but seeing it now seems so obvious. Has any other game had that on their characters?
I've never seen it before. Seeing this game on my OLED is going to be something special 👌🏼 I really appreciate their attention to detail
 

The artful mincer

Gold Member
In hindsight, does anyone think that HZD was better than people gave it credit for?
Yes best 3rd person shooter combat last generation. Not this backhanded best combat for an open world nonsense I hear people trot out. Best third person combat bar none.

I feel most people that complain about the combat likely played it on medium or easy.

It has issues for an open world but I rather they get the core combat right first. I don't care how interesting to explore or how "lively" your open world is. If you have weak combat I will get bored fast
 
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It's not.

Remember during the early smartphone years when phone debates were all the rage? Those have fallen by the wayside because people don't appreciate the differences anymore. We've reached the point where very few people can see the differences between Aloy and Senua.

99/100 people would look at you funny if you said the difference in fidelity is significant.

The art style is what people now notice.
Start a poll then, I think you'll find I'm right and you're wrong.
 
Yes best 3rd person shooter combat last generation. Not this backhanded best combat for an open world nonsense I hear people trot out. Best third person combat bar none.

I feel most people that complain about the combat likely played it on medium or easy.

It has issues for an open world but I rather they get the core combat right first. I don't care how interesting to explore or how "lively" your open world is. If you have weak combat I will get bored fast

Yeah, i mean if we’re being honest the first game sits at an 89 on metacritic so its properly rated.

It had glaring issues with some of the open world design, crafting/ui, NPCs with questing and animation, and the human combat which honestly felt like a last minute afterthought. Like they were thrown in just to satisfy having more combat outside of the machines.

So far this game has improved

  • The Human combat. The new combo system looks fun as hell
  • Supposedly they threw out the entire upgrade system and started over. You now have crafting benches a new skill progression
  • They added grappling hook AND a glider, two things that automatically make games better. It’s like bacon and avocado
  • Improved animations and what looks like storytelling (by the small clip in SoP)
  • Free climbing
I think the way they made the first game was they focused on creating a big world, with big concepts and gameplay mechanics but none of it felt really refined. It felt like a new big game that lacked a lot of life. This game feels like they went back in, and combed over all the areas the game lacked in and just threw everything they could to improve them.

The only thing left for me is whether or not the questing and supporting cast have also been upgraded to be far more interesting.
 

ANDS

Thought gaf was racist. Now knows better, honorary gaffer 2022
The outfits in HZD were good, but the stuff in this trailer looks off the chart (the red one in particular is really cool). I hope we get a transmog feature.

Horizon and Elden Ring within a week of each other... Oh my.

That. . .is unfortunate. I thought there was at least two weeks between the two. Looking up dates online it looks like a lot of people just got the hell out of the way from these two games.
 

Mr Hyde

Gold Member
This game looks absolutely fantastic. Definitely hyped for a second go at this franchise. Too bad Elden Ring releases in the same month. Aloy will have to wait since that game is top priority.
 
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