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[SlimySnake]

This is all that needs to be shown as commentary to some of the responses to this episode:

Like, it's totally fine if you weren't feeling the episode because it didn't go the way you were hoping from a narrative POV, but 24% of people didn't give it a 1/10 because of that. They did it because they're uncomfortable in their own skin and gay people make them feel icky.

Wait. So you are arguing that a game that has been out for 10 years and features a lesbian female lead with her own romance DLC has a fanbase that has finally turned homophobic TEN years later? So they had no issues with Ellie sticking her tongue down Dina's throat in one of the most memorable E3 demos, but now they find their inner homophobe? Or maybe just maybe this is a huge departure from the game and people didnt care for it.

I personally find it hilarious that 70% of the people thought this episode was a 9 or 10, but i dont go around accusing them of being heterophobes.

 

[Punished Miku]

Wait. So you are arguing that a game that has been out for 10 years and features a lesbian female lead with her own romance DLC has a fanbase that has finally turned homophobic TEN years later? So they had no issues with Ellie sticking her tongue down Dina's throat in one of the most memorable E3 demos, but now they find their inner homophobe? Or maybe just maybe this is a huge departure from the game and people didnt care for it.

I personally find it hilarious that 70% of the people thought this episode was a 9 or 10, but i dont go around accusing them of being heterophobes.

There's no reason to deny that the homophobia does exist on some level. There's a huge difference for many people between a lesbian romance with attractive women compared to two furry men going at it. One caters indirectly to straight men and the other doesn't.

 

[Represent.]

That's quite a "sell". Black Summer is now on my radar.

Season 2 is a zombie masterpiece. Season 1 is hit or miss. Its an Uncharted 1 > Uncharted 2 level jump.

WATCH IT

but you legit dont really have to watch season 1, youll get some more backstory but Season 2 stands up on its own

 

[Swift_Star]

Smh. Straight up the most underrated zombie show of all time. If you recall the masterful opening sequence of 28 Weeks Later, they basically made an entire show with that level of intensity. Its worth the watch for the cinematography and action sequences alone.

Do yourself a favor and go watch the first 10 minutes of Episode 1, Season 2 right now. You dont have to watch season 1. Its on Netflix

Will surely do it.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

good relationship/character dev eps.

poor tlou eps. majority of it felt like a waste

 

[SlimySnake]

Didn't you bring up the Metacritic score earlier? Let's check out some of the 0/10 reviews:
Etc etc.

There will always be homophobic people online. But the fans of this show are not. Fans of this game who have remained fans despite all the LGBT focus are not going to turn on the story because of homophobia. Needless romance? Sure. People had issues with Tess and Joel sleeping in the same bed. People like ambiguity.

The analog future guy is saying people hated this episode because everyone who rated it 1s did it because they are homophobic. Nonsense. This thread is roughly 50-50 on this episode and so far very few of the criticisms have been about hollywood gay propaganda.

This is exactly what I saw on era. Every criticism was just dismissed by people who view themselves as morally superior looking down upon anyone who dares to say hey this is NOTHING like the game.

 

[The Tourmaline Gorilla]

Ohhh, straight men find gay scenes repulsive. How very anti-progressive of them.

Give me a break. Not everyone cares for such imagery, and that's fine.

 

[VortexCortex]

Really good episode but not without issues.

My biggest issue was being completely dragged out the world and episode with the stupid 'government is nazi's' bullshit.

I don't think that line was aimed at pop/internet culture necessarily. FEDRA is a very totalitarian much like the Nazis in WW2.

The episode shows us and talks about how they were taking none infected people to QZs, but then executed them after making them believe all was okay because "no room" and piled their bodies in a mass grave.

Draws parallels to the death marches, executions and concentration camps the Nazis had ran during the war.

 

[analog_future]

There will always be homophobic people online. But the fans of this show are not. Fans of this game who have remained fans despite all the LGBT focus are not going to turn on the story because of homophobia. Needless romance? Sure. People had issues with Tess and Joel sleeping in the same bed. People like ambiguity.

The analog future guy is saying people hated this episode because everyone who rated it 1s did it because they are homophobic. Nonsense. This thread is roughly 50-50 on this episode and so far very few of the criticisms have been about hollywood gay propaganda.

This is exactly what I saw on era. Every criticism was just dismissed by people who view themselves as morally superior looking down upon anyone who dares to say hey this is NOTHING like the game.

The comment by The Tourmaline Gorilla immediately following your post makes your statement even more hilarious

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

It was in the game. Theres a bloater in the next episode. Lmao at dropping a show for one episode you didn't like. That is just childish.

I must have missed that section of the game. I really don’t remember it. Strange as I only just finished my play through of the remake last week. O’ well. I guess not being a fan of homoeroticism and missed opportunities is childish in 2023. We don’t all get off on that stuff my guy.

 

[SlimySnake]

The comment by The Tourmaline Gorilla immediately following your post makes your statement even more hilarious

How? The very first sentence in my post says there will always be homophobia online.

 

[Dibils2k]

Making it click for Joel, teaching him he should protect those that are important to him, making him suddenly realize he barely has anyone else besides his brother and Ellie to the point he starts feeling protective of her, even telling her to use a seatbelt, teaching her how to use one meaning all of this will have huge implications by the end of the season, when he will commit mass murder to save Ellie is pointless and uncessary?
Can't you really see THIS episode is what will trigger everything else to happen? It was the turning point for Joel FFS.

note did that, not the 60+ mins of watching a couple go through life... Joel didnt live with them lol

it was a cutscene for a note you find in a game... there is no doubt it was waste of time and just a way for writer to write a short film that has nothing to do with the actual show. it was award bait, nothing more

 

[Swift_Star]

note did that, not the 60+ mins of watching a couple go through life... Joel didnt live with them lol

The note would be meaningless to the audience if they didn’t have the context.
What a weak comeback.

 

[Roni]

Wait. So you are arguing that a game that has been out for 10 years and features a lesbian female lead with her own romance DLC has a fanbase that has finally turned homophobic TEN years later? So they had no issues with Ellie sticking her tongue down Dina's throat in one of the most memorable E3 demos, but now they find their inner homophobe? Or maybe just maybe this is a huge departure from the game and people didnt care for it.

I personally find it hilarious that 70% of the people thought this episode was a 9 or 10, but i dont go around accusing them of being heterophobes.

Female gay love is one thing for heterosexual males, male gay love on the other hand... But denying the other is even there is par for the course, really

 

[Punished Miku]

Uh you know full well that most gamers are fine with lesbian relationships. There are generally two types of relationships that don't freak gamers out... if they are playing a male character he fucks females OR if they are playing a female character that character also fucks females.

When you add a male character fucking another male character that's when gamers freak the fuck out which they are now.

People were fine with female Shepard banging girls in like 2007, almost a decade before gay marriage was even legal.

 

[BadBurger]

I’ve seen this sort of comment in multiple places around the internet, you guys must watch a lot of garbage?

In terms of the what Joel’s priorities should be, not gonna lie the interactions for me between him and Ellie have been nowhere near anything for him to ‘feel’ what bill is implying. Bill lived with Frank for multiple years where as Joel has only been with a Ellie for what? 2 days in show time? In the game their relationship feels natural and real but the show just hasn’t reached that yet.

At the start, Joel is a reluctant courier who doesn't particularly like or trust Ellie, and just wants to get it over with. By the end he's reminded that lives and friendships are fleeting, and he kind of embraces his task in honor of Tess's, Bill's and Frank's memories.

The director doesn't hammer the viewers over their heads with the messaging, and Pascal's performance is muted in emotion, just like Joel from the game (Edit: credit where it's due, Troy Baker's performance). But it's there.

Edit 2: You can see the change after Ellie reads the letter. He angrily tells her, basically, to put the past behind them. Don't ask about my life or Tess, I won't ask about yours, the future only, let's move on. In the car he seems like a new man.

 

[Faust]

Stick to talking about the show.

 

[Neolombax]

I'm honestly quite surprised at how much I liked ep3. I think its the best episode thus far. It fulfils the purpose of worldbuilding, shows Joel warming up to Ellie, gives hints of Ellie's dark nature. I liked that they're showing us different stories rather than a 1 to 1 retelling of the game.

Great acting all around in this episode. Just based off performance, I believed the relationship between Frank and Bill more than Joel and Sarah (the game did it way way better though).

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

ANYWAY....i hope ep 4 picks things up with the story. Still unsure why the length of each episode is so sporadic. The only show I have seen with random episode length was THEM. Usually they are all 45min or 60 min.....all 10 or all 20. So far we went from 90 mins to 45 min and last one 75 mins.

 

[Swift_Star]

I'm honestly quite surprised at how much I liked ep3. I think its the best episode thus far. It fulfils the purpose of worldbuilding, shows Joel warming up to Ellie, gives hints of Ellie's dark nature. I liked that they're showing us different stories rather than a 1 to 1 retelling of the game.

Great acting all around in this episode. Just based off performance, I believed the relationship between Frank and Bill more than Joel and Sarah (the game did it way way better though).

Episode 4 will be action focused if the trailer is to be believed

 

[analog_future]

I'm honestly quite surprised at how much I liked ep3. I think its the best episode thus far. It fulfils the purpose of worldbuilding, shows Joel warming up to Ellie, gives hints of Ellie's dark nature. I liked that they're showing us different stories rather than a 1 to 1 retelling of the game.

Great acting all around in this episode. Just based off performance, I believed the relationship between Frank and Bill more than Joel and Sarah (the game did it way way better though).

Yes, I feel like the scene with Ellie killing the infected hasn't been talked about enough. Between that scene and her reaction to Joel killing the FEDRA soldier in episode 1, the show is clearly planting seeds that she has a propensity for dark/violent behavior.

 

[Swift_Star]

Yes, I feel like the scene with Ellie killing the infected hasn't been talked about enough. Between that scene and her reaction to Joel killing the FEDRA soldier in episode 1, the show is clearly planting seeds that she has a propensity for dark/violent behavior.

Which makes sense when you think about everything she suffered in both games.

 

[DForce]

No since that was how it played out in the game so I see that as the baseline of the adaptation, if the show makes all kinds of additions and replacements for them too I'd probably have the same criticism.

He seemed willing to go down fighting with Tess(with Ellie too?) but he honors her dying wish so there goes your theory at that point in the story.

He was. It showed how much he loved Tess and he didn't want to lose her. It only proves my point. lol

The way Joel looked at Tess right before he left showed he didn't want to lose her. The way he looked at Ellie after the building exploded showed he put some of the blame on her. This was also in one of the videos that I shared last week. And guess what happened at the beginning of episode 3? Ellie told Joel not o blame him because it was their choice to smuggle her. At the end of Episode 3, Bill's letter said to use his guns to keep Tess safe and he walked out of the house to cry.

All of this builds up to Joel and how he's scared to lose Ellie.

All that hinges on if he sees Ellie as a daughter already or as a means to get his merchandise back(and honor Tess) which in the game seems to happen past that point. He still talks to Tommy about charging him with delivering Ellie to the Fireflies and collecting the payment. He was more concerned about getting enough gear back to set him on his own way again than Ellie's future.

So the show is already very different that I'm not expecting them to follow a lot of the game story beats, but that won't stop me from commenting on it knowing how it played out in the game. Like I said before, doesn't have to mean the show is bad if it makes some big changes but I'm not seeing it surpassing the game at this point.

The worst thing this show's making me do is to recommend someone who's new to TLOU the game over the show and perhaps afterwards the show for a somewhat alternate take on the story.

It doesn't, because all he has to do is remember what happened in the past.

In the game, Joel lost Sarah, Tess, Henry, and Sam before meeting with Tommy.
On the show (so far) Joel has lost Sarah, Tess, and Bill.

Spoiler

Don't think of the dialog as some throwaway lines. Ellie knew Joel was scared of losing her and that's why he called out his bullshit and mentioned Sam and his Daughter Sarah.

It's not a good argument by saying he will eventually get close to Ellie anyways when we know what these moments with other characters are designed to do and what they mean going forward.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Honestly with what Neil said in the after episode commentary it makes me really curious to see what other changes they approach in the story. Much like other adaptations, folks are going in expecting to know what's going to happen because they've experienced it before in another form.

Episode 3 was proof that they WILL deviate from the game's happenings if they think it will carry more weight, or be better. So any of the "big beats" that we know of from TLOU 1 & 2 could change as well. That may upset some people, but to me, I find it exciting. Because while there ARE some 1:1 segments (which is really cool to see), we don't exactly know what's going to happen. Which in the end, makes me even more curious as to how everything will pan out.

 

[SlimySnake]

ANYWAY....i hope ep 4 picks things up with the story. Still unsure why the length of each episode is so sporadic. The only show I have seen with random episode length was THEM. Usually they are all 45min or 60 min.....all 10 or all 20. So far we went from 90 mins to 45 min and last one 75 mins.

First episode was two episodes combined into one. Thats why the show only has 9 episodes. HBO execs felt like the first episode wouldnt bring back the audience for a second week so they had Neil and Craig merge it into one episode. Not sure why this episode was so long.

 

[Slothbeing1209]

Episode 4 will be action focused if the trailer is to be believed

I hope they can make good combat scene. So far only the clicker scene was great.

 

[THE DUCK]

I thought the episode was great, but imagine a world where every TV show and movie didn't do flashbacks and instead just presented the story in order........what a crazy notion.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I thought it was a fantastic episode. If I’m being realistic I liked it more than the second episode, which felt like a run of the mill zombie show with insane set pieces.
The relationship that developed I didn’t see coming. I thought I was going to see someone get killed that first day.

 

[Woggleman]

I think Ellie was mainly curious about the infected and here was a chance for her to see what was underneath while it was trapped. She quickly put it out of it's misery afterward. Also she was born into and grew up in a violent and dangerous world so that has to have some affect on a person's psyche.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yes, I feel like the scene with Ellie killing the infected hasn't been talked about enough. Between that scene and her reaction to Joel killing the FEDRA soldier in episode 1, the show is clearly planting seeds that she has a propensity for dark/violent behavior.

She's a psychopath. Serial killer like traits.

 

[Ulysses 31]

He was. It showed how much he loved Tess and he didn't want to lose her. It only proves my point. lol

The way Joel looked at Tess right before he left showed he didn't want to lose her. The way he looked at Ellie after the building exploded showed he put some of the blame on her. This was also in one of the videos that I shared last week. And guess what happened at the beginning of episode 3? Ellie told Joel not o blame him because it was their choice to smuggle her. At the end of Episode 3, Bill's letter said to use his guns to keep Tess safe and he walked out of the house to cry.

All of this builds up to Joel and how he's scared to lose Ellie.

Obviously no one wants to lose someone they care for but your point was that Ellie was already in Joel's mind as someone has he to protect at nearly all costs like Tess and at that point in the story she ain't(in the game at least).

It doesn't, because all he has to do is remember what happened in the past.

In the game, Joel lost Sarah, Tess, Henry, and Sam before meeting with Tommy.
On the show (so far) Joel has lost Sarah, Tess, and Bill.

Spoiler

Don't think of the dialog as some throwaway lines. Ellie knew Joel was scared of losing her and that's why he called out his bullshit and mentioned Sam and his Daughter Sarah.

And yet at that point Joel wants to get rid of Ellie and go his own way. It's only because Tommy's too deeply rooted where he is that Joel stays with Ellie. The show will probably chance it though.

It's not a good argument by saying he will eventually get close to Ellie anyways when we know what these moments with other characters are designed to do and what they mean going forward.

Seems you misunderstood my argument then. My argument is that the game gives plenty of motivation for Joel to complete his mission and so if the show is coming up with new motivational stuff, it might be because it's going to replace things from the game in future episodes.

 

[Punished Miku]

She's a psychopath. Serial killer like traits.

It's clearly hinting at that. Similar to a teenager torturing animals or something.

 

[Ulysses 31]

She's a psychopath. Serial killer like traits.

Let's hope it's not because they're in a hurry to establish Ellie from TLOU2...

 

[DeepEnigma]

It's clearly hinting at that. Similar to a teenager torturing animals or something.

At the end of the first episode with the dev commentary, they heavily eluded that she was. That her watching Joel kill a man with his bare hands woke something up in her, it excited her seeing someone do that for her, so them two getting together to feed off one another "watch out" is what was a direct statement by Druckmann and the writers.

Let's hope it's not because they're in a hurry to establish Ellie from TLOU2...

And she was a damned psychopath hellbent on vengeance in Part 2.

 

[ShadowNate]

I think it's also worth noting that the episode kept challenging the viewer's expectations in several points with bait and switch.

Spoiler: Episode 3 spoilers I guess

Like at the start it looked to me that we would get a flashback about those people who... didn't make it to the QZ, but they quickly switched to Bill.

Then later on Bill gets shot, and it looks like he's a gonner -- so maybe it would be Frank there when Joel and Ellie arrive.

Then Frank is disabled, Bill takes care of him, and of course in the end they both die which is not what you'd expect if you played the game.

I think on some level this plays into the writing of the series. Not doing everything the way the viewer and the gamer would expect them to go. They want the series to be sufficiently different from the game, and distinct from other zombie series.

Btw, what did Ellie find at the basement? Some box of food?

And a weirder question. What would be the last major videogame to come out in their world? They didn't even get to experience Half Life 2!

 

[Punished Miku]

At the end of the first episode with the dev commentary, they heavily eluded that she was. That her watching Joel kill a man with his bare hands woke something up in her, it excited her seeing someone do that for her, so them two getting together to feed off one another "watch out" is what was a direct statement by Druckmann and the writers.


And she was a damned psychopath hellbent on vengeance in Part 2.

Yeah, and her commentary about "doesn't it ever bother you that you're killing things that used to be human?" We all thought she asked because it bothered her, but apparently she was asking because it doesn't lol.

 

[iHaunter]

Was a 10/10 episode for me overall. It gave the purpose Joel needed to fully embrace taking Ellie to the fireflies, among other things.

 

[rofif]

Ep.3 in short:

 

[Woggleman]

I think it's also worth noting that the episode kept challenging the viewer's expectations in several points with bait and switch.

Spoiler: Episode 3 spoilers I guess

Like at the start it looked to me that we would get a flashback about those people who... didn't make it to the QZ, but they quickly switched to Bill.

Then later on Bill gets shot, and it looks like he's a gonner -- so maybe it would be Frank there when Joel and Ellie arrive.

Then Frank is disabled, Bill takes care of him, and of course in the end they both die which is not what you'd expect if you played the game.

I think on some level this plays into the writing of the series. Not doing everything the way the viewer and the gamer would expect them to go. They want the series to be sufficiently different from the game, and distinct from other zombie series.

Btw, what did Ellie find at the basement? Some box of food?

And a weirder question. What would be the last major videogame to come out in their world? They didn't even get to experience Half Life 2!

San Andreas didn't even come out though they still got to play Vice City.

 

[El Pistolero]

As someone who has finished the game twice, I welcome any changes made with the intention of keeping the "spirit" of TLOU intact, especially when said changes are well implemented. I do not need an exact replica of the sequence of cutscenes, honestly, as it would defeat the purpose of telling the story through a different medium...and I can not wait for the Sam & Henri episode...

 

[Ulysses 31]

And she was a damned psychopath hellbent on vengeance in Part 2.

True but you like to see signs of that so soon in the show rather the more hopeful and optimistic Ellie from TLOU1 game?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yeah, and her commentary about "doesn't it ever bother you that you're killing things that used to be human?" We all thought she asked because it bothered her, but apparently she was asking because it doesn't lol.

Yep, I think she was looking for some sort of reassurance for her actions, her cravings.

True but you like to see signs of that so soon in the show rather the more hopeful and optimistic Ellie from TLOU1 game?

She showed the very same "cool" factor when Joel did things in the game. It was always an enthusiast "gross" and the like.

 

[El Pistolero]

"Ohh, white men find black people kissing each other scenes repulsive. How very anti-progressive of them.

Give me a break. Not everyone cares for such imagery, and that's fine."


This is how people like you will look some years from now (even today, imo)

Not caring is different then finding it repulsive.

Finding it repulsive tells us there's something really wrong about yourself

Not necessarily, with all due respect. My brain, as a heterosexual man, is hardwired in such a way, that the images naturally repel me. But I hold no hatered in my heart for people with a different sexual orientation to mine...It's just an aspect of their being that I can not grasp, for my genetic, cultural and psychological makeups conspire to impose a certain vision upon me. Again, I absolutely abhore any form of discrimination towards them, or any other group for that matter, aside from ones that stand for reprehensible and destructive ideas.
If I may draw a not-so-identical comparison, me being a muslim (at least someone who adheres to the idea of there being a God, with whom we need to establish a spiritual rappor, and who constitutes the source of all ideals), does not make me refractory to the idea that a large group of people do not appreciate my beliefs...or, even, ridicule them. That does not mean that they necessarily detest me...It is just that the concept happens to be at odds with their view of the world.

 

[Swift_Star]

It seems the original episode cut would be 2h long. Here's hoping they release this version someday.

 

[Ulysses 31]

She showed the very same "cool" factor when Joel did things in the game. It was always an enthusiast "gross" and the like.

I'll have to refresh my memory then since I didn't got the impression she'd experiment with infected like that.

 

[geary]

Well, the showrunners felt we needed it and the biggest part of the audience too, so that's that.

The showrunners felt also the need to butcher S6/7/8 of GoT and go off-track and that's that as well.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I'll have to refresh my memory then since I didn't got the impression she'd experiment with infected like that.

In order for them to flesh her out more into the psychopath that she was, they draw similar traits to children that grew up to be serial killers and the like via similar experimentation on animals, etc.. But in the game, she was always enthusiastic when they were killing. It never even bothered her in a bad way.

The showrunners felt also the need to butcher S6/7/8 of GoT and go off-track and that's that as well.

These aren't the same showrunners.

 

[Ulysses 31]

The showrunners felt also the need to butcher S6/7/8 of GoT and go off-track and that's that as well.

I think it was also a case of D&D wanting to move on since according to GRRM they skipped an entire book worth of stuff.

 

[geary]

I think it was also a case of D&D wanting to move on since according to GRRM they skipped an entire book worth of stuff.

It all come down to their stubbornness same as here.

 

[Woggleman]

Realistically experimenting with infected could do some good. If you ever do want to find some way to fight this you need to understand how infection works and since she can safely touch them without getting infected herself it might do some good. It would be a good job for her in a more established community though she should kill them before dissecting them.