LMAO. Cyberpunk wishes it was a reskinned GTAV in an 80s Cyberpunk setting. Astonishing how Kingdom Come Deliverance, a game developed on a fraction of the budget and by a considerably smaller team, ended up being of a much wider scope and having far greater interactivity than Cyberpunk. It’s actually embarrassing.
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GTA 5 is better than Cyberpunk 2077 (Parts I and II)
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
- Clickbait Analysis Trailer
Loostreaks
Member
Rockstar games are like those frozen pizza covers: they look great, but there is nothing really under the crust. Missions, gameplay, mechanics, completely outdated mission design, main story, side activities, any kind of progression systems: all extremely barebones/shallow. Reason why Rockstar puts more effort into minor things like physics, npc reactivity/AI, etc. Their games are pretty much designed around wreaking havoc in open world, being "immersed into it", and running through main story.
Virtually only thing Deus Ex does better/more is general object interactivity and dialogue "persuasion" system.
CDPR's biggest mistake was marketing this as "next gen open world", when they undercooked when it comes to npc AI and emergent gameplay. And people had insane expectation of it doing everything more and better.
You've got it backwards. Deus Ex does not even have a melee system ( it's a cutscene takedown). Hacking is not even 5% of what you can do in Cyberpunk with it. Rpg elements: not even close when it comes to builds and playstyles ( no stats, no background options, no skills, simplistic perks/cyberware, etc). And Deus Ex has only a couple of weapons in entire game. Same goes for variety of Missions, Main story, narrative options, dialogue system, activities, etc. No day/night cycle, completely static npcs, no weather system, no driving, only three or so enemy types, no different types of resistances/status effects, etc, etc. And from production standing point: everything from animations, visuals, sound design, is whole generation behind.
Virtually only thing Deus Ex does better/more is general object interactivity and dialogue "persuasion" system.
CDPR's biggest mistake was marketing this as "next gen open world", when they undercooked when it comes to npc AI and emergent gameplay. And people had insane expectation of it doing everything more and better.
German Hops
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief
Soulblighter31
Banned
I have a feeling "Deus ex games" for you and most here means the ok-ish nuDeus Ex games. No serious gamer mentioning Deus Ex refers to anything other than Deus Ex 1. Compared to that, nothing the post you quoted is wrong.
Myself and some others had some Deus Ex 1 vibes for Cyberpunk. But it seems Deus Ex 1 is cursed to forever be on top of everything, never to be even remotely matched by any other game. Damn shame
You shame the Deus Ex name by only being aware of the eidos games.
Most everything you said is false in relation to Deus Ex 1.
Burn your shit consoles and get into pc gaming in order to experience the actual greatest games ever made
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Guilty_AI
Member
I have to disagree. Rockstar might be good when it comes to the sandbox aspects of their games showcased in the video (especially because of euphoria) but their game and mission design philosophy is absolutely atrocious. Not that CDPR's is amazing or anything, but its at least far more consistent.
SoggyBiscuit
Banned
This comparison is utterly pointless, lol. Completely different styles of game.
Guilty_AI
Member
Loostreaks
Member
First one was influential title, but the game has boat load of issues, even comparing it to modern Deus Ex titles. Rpg mechanics are useless and obstructive ( skills like lockpicking only reducing number of needed lockpicks/with which you end up with dozens anyway, or how low combat skill turned MC is into a drunkard with Parkinson disease), wooden characters, cringe writing, incredibly poor voice acting performance, poor main story/pacing, enemy AI, barren world, completely linear main story with few choices, awful gameplay in general, etc.
Guilty_AI
Member
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Soulblighter31
Banned
MMaRsu
Banned
Lmao cmon a developer like Rockstar who utilizes RAGE for physics in GTA V, a dev that has been making open world games like this for over a decade now. With The Witcher 3, CDPR made it's first open world, now it's second open world game features cars and an open city, that does not mean it has to hold up to GTA V's standard of interactivity imo.
Yes these are things they should add for a sequel, but imo Id love to see more immersion things like being able to eat at diff stalls, getting different appartments, really different love interests etc.
Yes these are things they should add for a sequel, but imo Id love to see more immersion things like being able to eat at diff stalls, getting different appartments, really different love interests etc.
The hyperbole surrounding Cyberpunk is through the roof because of a very loud minority of gamers who’re zealously singing its praises in response to the SJWs decrying the game’s arguable insensitivity in its depiction of certain marginalized groups. No one who’s acting in good faith could honestly play this game and think it’s a 9/10 game.
Kingdom Come Deliverance has more interactivity and immersive interplay between systems than Cyberpunk.
MMaRsu
Banned
Lmao no it fucking doesnt. You can go up to NPC's and you cant even interact with them. Henry just stands there.
What systems in KCD? There arent any systems besides lockpicking, talking and combat. Oh right there's a bit of stealth there too but nothing impressive to say the least.
Not to mention the game world is pretty much empty compared to Cyberpunk 2077.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
I could never really get into GTA. I liked Vice City because of the setting, but the game itself was kinda boring. Drive somewhere, shoot someone, then drive back. Repeat.
The level of choice is much more varied and impactful. The NPCs all run on a schedule, some of them affecting the availability of quests. Your reputation can have a bearing on how NPCs will interact with you during quests. It’s awfully buggy, but Kingdom Come Deliverance is quite obviously the deeper and more interactive RPG of the two.
Loostreaks
Member
Lol same to you my good man. I still remember smacking enemy guard in that game with baton and they'd always start running around in circles like a headless chicken, while I kept chasing and missing him because of comically bad hitboxes. Good fun ( with Benny Hill theme playing in background).
Game isn't bad but it's very limited and flawed on many levels, it's silly to put it on some kind of pedestal as some kind of holy grail of gaming.
I think the point is that Cyberpunk, a game made 30 years later, is much of sn improvement in its systems. Hell, Deus Ex is an immersive sim, while Cyberpunk is....a barebones cRPG?Lol same to you my good man. I still remember smacking enemy guard in that game with baton and they'd always start running around in circles like a headless chicken, while I kept chasing and missing him because of comically bad hitboxes. Good fun ( with Benny Hill theme playing in background).
Game isn't bad but it's very limited and flawed on many levels, it's silly to put it on some kind of pedestal as some kind of holy grail of gaming.
martino
Member
It's because the game is pushing lot of other boundaries on the wrong platform and salty fanbase are also not liking to be the third wheel.
Most of those poster with hyperbolic hot take are brand warrior
And the "brand dissonance" is obvious when they never show same level of criticism or ask for this level of interactivity in exclusive corridor / open world game....
But those games would need to have more than 10 statics npc to begin with ....
Loostreaks
Member
You have hundred times more options with character building/progression in Cyberpunk: KCD is pretty much just built around melee.
In what sense ( barebones crpg)?
Granted I'm not too far in the game, but rpg aspect is better than in most( and I've played pretty much any of note) and massive improvement over Witcher:
- 3 character backgrounds, with short intros for each...most rpgs have none
- You also sometimes get unique dialogue options when interacting with npcs
- pretty solid character customization system ( old Fallout, Deus Ex, KCD..have none)
- female/male options and to small degree it affects how npcs respond ( in most rpg, there is almost none)
- stats that sometimes offer dialogue options, passive benefits, and limit skill growth
- stats also limit what weapons you can use
- skills that affect interaction with world ( opening doors, rewiring tech, etc).
- for combat skills they also improve/change some animations
- ton of perk options, and perk system in general is far better than in similar games
- additional perks you gain from leveling up same skills
- street cred/reputation system that unlocks quests and different gear
- additional leveling system with cyberware that also has it's own customization system ( with mods)
- open mission design with narrative choices and player agency
- customizable gear through upgrade and mods
Only thing I have yet to see is how narrative choices play out: but hell, if it's anything like in Witcher, it's better than in most
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The dialogue, like every other “choice” in Cyberpunk, is barebones, minimal to a fault, giving no true agency in terms of steering the narrative. Kingdom Come Deliverance’s dialogue with central characters is a lot like Alpha Protocol’s, with clear consequences for how you respond to other parties. Your words matter. In Cyberpunk, choice is superficially presented, an illusion of agency that doesn’t have any bearing on the story. The breadth of choice in Kingdom Come Deliverance is one of its most praised features.
EDMIX
Member
10000% agreed. He is one of the few I felt was really making sense as what he was questioning should be questioned.
EDMIX
Member
Agreed. I found that out when I played with no patch, then with the day 1 and then with 1.04. I noticed that many of the answers you give just have V going to do the same shit and people just responding the same way.
The dialogue shit 90% is just for fluff, just for show.
Loostreaks
Member
Wuut? There are no different endings or major consequences in that game: everyone gets exactly the same. In Cyberpunk, choices are relegated more through actions and they absolutely affect what happens to npcs.
I would've preferred more personality dialogue options, but same goes for nearly all rpgs ( except for really short like AoD). No one will design quests with twenty different narrative pathways and outcomes.
Ultra Violento
Member
Yep, I was sorely disappointed with how watered-down things were compared to IV.
Killer8
Member
The way police work in Cyberpunk is terrible. People already mentioned the obvious spawning issues but there's much deeper problems with their AI and design. Every single encounter i've had with police can be defused by... driving two blocks away. All you have to do is break line of sight and that's it. There is zero challenge compared to a GTA game where you're hunted relentlessly once the wanted stars are high enough. In fact, it's harder to keep a wanted level than lose it in Cyberpunk, which is ridiculous.
Speaking of the wanted stars, there's also too little granularity between each level. At one star the cops in CP2077 will just start blasting (you could make the argument that's just NCPD's mo of shoot first ask questions later, but it's much less interesting). Cops in GTAV will try to apprehend you at gunpoint first and if you resist arrest, then it escalates.
CP2077 does deploy elite cops and gun drones, but again, it's all too easy to just run away. It's also not clear to me how the "Crime Prevention System" works. It seems like a cheap one shot kill to end your fun if you try to keep the chaos going instead of running.
Speaking of the wanted stars, there's also too little granularity between each level. At one star the cops in CP2077 will just start blasting (you could make the argument that's just NCPD's mo of shoot first ask questions later, but it's much less interesting). Cops in GTAV will try to apprehend you at gunpoint first and if you resist arrest, then it escalates.
CP2077 does deploy elite cops and gun drones, but again, it's all too easy to just run away. It's also not clear to me how the "Crime Prevention System" works. It seems like a cheap one shot kill to end your fun if you try to keep the chaos going instead of running.
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kuncol02
Banned
If that's the price we have to pay for first Deus Ex existence then I'm happy to pay it.
I almost feel like Assasin's Creed style game over screen would be better than that police system.
MiguelItUp
Member
As entertaining as the video is, it's pretty ridiculous to be comparing an open-world Rockstar game vs. a open-world CDPR game. One developer has had a HUGE amount of experience in the genres over the other. The studio itself has just done a lot more as well. That's silly.
Also, to each their own, but I'm enjoying Cyberpunk's gameplay more than I enjoyed GTA V's.
Also, to each their own, but I'm enjoying Cyberpunk's gameplay more than I enjoyed GTA V's.
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MMaRsu
Banned
And it doesnt offer barely any of the mechanics that Cyberpunk offers.
If you keep it so small as in KCD, then you dont have to have mindless AI populating the city.
Also, I dont really care if the NPC's run on a schedule or if some of them are not available because its the middle of the night.
Im not looking for that type of immersion.
Trust me, I like KCD, but you cant compare it to Cyberpunk 2077 at all.
R6Rider
Gold Member
None of those games were anywhere near the horrible performance of Cyberpunk on PS4 and Xbox One. But they have all had better AI, pathing, and reactive worlds.
Martinski43
Member
This post nails it, this is like a Deus Ex in a 'open world'.
thelastword
Banned
GTAV is miles ahead in every category, textures, foliage, A.I, physics, world, living breathing and interactivity and in general the ATD in GTA is just insane. Of course the clincher is, GTAV is a 360/PS3 game....Can't wait to see what Rockstar does on next gen consoles, especially if their game is PS5/SeriesX and PC only.....
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
Hugare
Member
I thought that Cyberpunk would be a GTA reskinned.
But its actually a Witcher 3 reskinned. The interactions that you can have with the world goes as deep as you could in The Witcher 3.
And that's not necessarily bad. Witcher 3 is one of the GOATs in my opinion, but that's because of the writting and quest design. Qualities also present in Cyberpunk.
I never caused chaos in The Witcher 3, tried to interact deeply with NPCs, ran over some people with Roach because it was fun to get away from the guards and etc.
The world is there to give you a sense of place, beautiful vistas and immerse you, but only if you keep it to the surface, what I usualy did.
People should have expected a Witcher 3 reskinned and not a GTA reskinned.
My only disapointment with the game is that in no fucking way this is a Deus EX game with a bigger world.
I didnt get far into the game yet, but quest design is linear as fuck. The only quest that gave me more freedom of choice was the Militec bot one, shown at E3 or whatever.
Funny, huh? How the only quest that have offered ramifications is the only one that they have marketed. (15h into the game)
It doesn't hold a candle to even the newer Deus EX games in terms of option to tackle missions
But its actually a Witcher 3 reskinned. The interactions that you can have with the world goes as deep as you could in The Witcher 3.
And that's not necessarily bad. Witcher 3 is one of the GOATs in my opinion, but that's because of the writting and quest design. Qualities also present in Cyberpunk.
I never caused chaos in The Witcher 3, tried to interact deeply with NPCs, ran over some people with Roach because it was fun to get away from the guards and etc.
The world is there to give you a sense of place, beautiful vistas and immerse you, but only if you keep it to the surface, what I usualy did.
People should have expected a Witcher 3 reskinned and not a GTA reskinned.
My only disapointment with the game is that in no fucking way this is a Deus EX game with a bigger world.
I didnt get far into the game yet, but quest design is linear as fuck. The only quest that gave me more freedom of choice was the Militec bot one, shown at E3 or whatever.
Funny, huh? How the only quest that have offered ramifications is the only one that they have marketed. (15h into the game)
It doesn't hold a candle to even the newer Deus EX games in terms of option to tackle missions
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Hawking Radiation
Member
Krisprolls
Banned
It feels Cyberpunk was released 1 or 2 years too soon. They clearly planned better NPCs, better AI and a better police system, but none of it made it in the final game, probably due to lack of time. The game feels unfinished.
In terms of open world, the 8 year old GTA 5 is clearly better, it's not close at all. Those videos are ruthless.
Cyberpunk still has a great story, but that's a huge disappointment when we were sold the great Night City so much.
The lifeless NPCs make the city itself lifeless and they're immersion breaking.
Still, I have high hopes for the next installments or future versions of the game. Most of the flaws can be fixed.
In terms of open world, the 8 year old GTA 5 is clearly better, it's not close at all. Those videos are ruthless.
Cyberpunk still has a great story, but that's a huge disappointment when we were sold the great Night City so much.
The lifeless NPCs make the city itself lifeless and they're immersion breaking.
Still, I have high hopes for the next installments or future versions of the game. Most of the flaws can be fixed.
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Hawking Radiation
Member
I want a game that has NPC's bumping uglies in the middle of the night. That would be my game of the year. I couldn't give two shades of a fuck about the rest of the game.
Does Cyberpunk do this? NO!!
In GTA you can get tombstone the muff off a hood rat in a back alley while listening to Chuck Inglish.
NO CONTEST.
