Tomeru
Member
You can already see the signs huh
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Is Cyberpunk much better than Starfield?
- Thread starter BootsLoader
- Start date
Whats funny is how accurate this might be. I'm still so confused at some reviewers saying things like "took 12 hours but now its so good!". I was having a blast at the beginning but by the time I finished everything I was like "Meh"
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Mediocre Arachno-Lad
Member
I don't know how in the motherfuck you got to that concusion, given you first started peddling this nonsense under a video which depicts the exact opposite for almost 2 hours. Among other examples, the guy demonstates how he threw a water jar at a safe door and short circuited it with electricity to open it. Which is something the game doesn't even tell you you can do.
Point me to where Starfield does that kind of thing, I'm all ears. You're right, BG3 is not like Bethesda RPG. Because bethesda RPGs are all guilty of exactly what you're saying. All of their choices take place in dialogue boxes. There's no roleplay, no character building, no depth to any of the systems, just pure munchkinism.
You're just too busy sniffing Todd's farts to realize that.
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vaibhavpisal
Member
When you are having difficulty in understanding how AI works in Immersive Sim, there is nothing I can do to make you get it. I will try to post a couple of videos. But if you still unable to get it, there is only so much I can do.
Clockwork soldiers in Dishonoured 2
How choices play out in Bethesda games
And you are wrong about choices playing out in dialogue box. That's the point of putting simulation in these games in first place. Have tangible stuff happen in game world, instead of game doing things under the hood.
Mediocre Arachno-Lad
Member
*Posts a video of some braindead AI in-fighting very awkwardly. Not using their suroundings, not prioritizing targets, not falling back to heal or hide when hurt.
When you get so lost in your own bullshit, you accidentally make Doom to be an immersive sim.
Literally dialogue window starts a mine quest in the first minute. Are you for real?
You know what the difference here with BG3 is? In BG 3 you would have 6 more options for different outcomes besides "take me in" and "fight" in that moment. Which would be optional to begin with, because preceding that, you could cause a civil war in Markath or join forces with Ulfric's army and raze it to the ground.
Bethesda games just built different: binary choices in dialogue boxes.
Btw, those guards in the shrine is the only way to trigger this quest. They don't react to anything in the outside world besides you becoming a thane, which gives you 1 (ONE) more dialogue option with them. Very systemic, much immersive.
Blowing up megaton, which is a quest that seems to give you a stiffy, is not a simulation, it's a scripted quest with a binary choice.
I advice you to stop talking and just get to playing BG3, because after you're done with emerald grove, you WILL feel like a retard for your vapid Bethesda fanboyism.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Fuck off with this bullshit dude. I have played a ton of games from both Larian and Bethesda to know how they operate.
You don't wanna get it, i understand you are having this discussion in bad faith. I am done with this discussion.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
Yes and it's better in every way possible IMO.
Much better graphics, better shooting, better exploration, better RPG elements, better story, better characters, better AI, etc.
It's not even close.
Much better graphics, better shooting, better exploration, better RPG elements, better story, better characters, better AI, etc.
It's not even close.
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alucard0712_rus
Gold Member
Played Starfield more and I've changed my mind. Cyberpunk is much better game, sorry Bethesda. Not that everything in Starfield is bad, not at all, but I bored so much that most fun thing for me was landing on random planets and shoot some animals to check out weapons...
EDMIX
Member
? smh, this is just uncalled for and I think you are taking a lot of this way too fucking personal man.
Mediocre Arachno-Lad
made some of the most logical points regarding this whole thing btw. "Literally dialogue window starts a mine quest in the first minute. Are you for real?
You know what the difference here with BG3 is? In BG 3 you would have 6 more options for different outcomes besides "take me in" and "fight" in that moment. Which would be optional to begin with, because preceding that, you could cause a civil war in Markath or join forces with Ulfric's army and raze it to the ground.
Bethesda games just built different: binary choices in dialogue boxes.
Btw, those guards in the shrine is the only way to trigger this quest. They don't react to anything in the outside world besides you becoming a thane, which gives you 1 (ONE) more dialogue option with them. Very systemic, much immersive"
The fuck we suppose to say to this? Its a lie? Its not real? Less complex is better? Less choice is better?
Starfield is in a universe where it makes more sense to have more choices since its the future with many, many elements going on.
They both offer choice, merely BG3 offers more.
All we are saying is Starfield should be having more options, for more outcomes.
Join our pirate crew or we push this old lady out the airlock
- Push the old lady yourself, they'll KNOW you are down (join Space Sharks Pirate Crew)
- Accept the offer to save the old lady (join Space Sharks Pirate Crew)
- I choose HONOR (REJECT Space Sharks Pirate Crew, save old lady)
- Embrace adventure on the high seas (join Space Sharks Pirate Crew)
- Seek a different path, spare the old lady (decline Space Sharks Pirate Crew offer)
- Is there another way we can settle this? (negotiate with Space Sharks Pirate Crew) (Sell your ship to save her, you find out she is rich and gives you one of her families Space Yachts)
- Let's find a peaceful resolution (mediate between the Space Sharks Pirate Crew and the old lady)
Stop man, just fucking stop, it makes zero sense to act as if some how, we all would just hate all of those amazing options and wealth of reasons to replay or something.
Nah, I'd say you are at this point.
Anyone that brings up many points on how well this can be used to add more choices and options to Starfield, is instantly shut down by you with a bunch of excuses.
Its not like Starfield is merely some action game with zero RPG, it already has choices, this team already does this, we are merely saying it would make sense for them to have MORE options, to do MORE of what they are already doing.
This isn't a hill to die on. I love their games too, but shit that is why I'm saying this should be in Starfield, let them be as great as they can be instead of this odd fighting every last criticism. So I hope they add more options thru DLCs, expansions etc and I hope seeing BG3 get all that praise lights a fire in them to show them we actually very much want more options and choice during those quest so it can help Starfield 2 be as great as it can.
vaibhavpisal
Member
? smh, this is just uncalled for and I think you are taking a lot of this way too fucking personal man.
"Literally dialogue window starts a mine quest in the first minute. Are you for real?
You know what the difference here with BG3 is? In BG 3 you would have 6 more options for different outcomes besides "take me in" and "fight" in that moment. Which would be optional to begin with, because preceding that, you could cause a civil war in Markath or join forces with Ulfric's army and raze it to the ground.
Bethesda games just built different: binary choices in dialogue boxes.
Btw, those guards in the shrine is the only way to trigger this quest. They don't react to anything in the outside world besides you becoming a thane, which gives you 1 (ONE) more dialogue option with them. Very systemic, much immersive"
The fuck we suppose to say to this? Its a lie? Its not real? Less complex is better? Less choice is better?
Starfield is in a universe where it makes more sense to have more choices since its the future with many, many elements going on.
They both offer choice, merely BG3 offers more.
All we are saying is Starfield should be having more options, for more outcomes.
Join our pirate crew or we push this old lady out the airlock
- Push the old lady yourself, they'll KNOW you are down (join Space Sharks Pirate Crew)
- Accept the offer to save the old lady (join Space Sharks Pirate Crew)
- I choose HONOR (REJECT Space Sharks Pirate Crew, save old lady)
- Embrace adventure on the high seas (join Space Sharks Pirate Crew)
- Seek a different path, spare the old lady (decline Space Sharks Pirate Crew offer)
- Is there another way we can settle this? (negotiate with Space Sharks Pirate Crew) (Sell your ship to save her, you find out she is rich and gives you one of her families Space Yachts)
- Let's find a peaceful resolution (mediate between the Space Sharks Pirate Crew and the old lady)
Stop man, just fucking stop, it makes zero sense to act as if some how, we all would just hate all of those amazing options and wealth of reasons to replay or something.
Nah, I'd say you are at this point.
Anyone that brings up many points on how well this can be used to add more choices and options to Starfield, is instantly shut down by you with a bunch of excuses.
Its not like Starfield is merely some action game with zero RPG, it already has choices, this team already does this, we are merely saying it would make sense for them to have MORE options, to do MORE of what they are already doing.
This isn't a hill to die on. I love their games too, but shit that is why I'm saying this should be in Starfield, let them be as great as they can be instead of this odd fighting every last criticism. So I hope they add more options thru DLCs, expansions etc and I hope seeing BG3 get all that praise lights a fire in them to show them we actually very much want more options and choice during those quest so it can help Starfield 2 be as great as it can.
We are going around in circles here.
Show me one instance in Baldurs Gate 3 where a city erupts in civil war in real time cause of a choice you made.
Else we are done here.
It's clear you don't wanna acknowledge how immersive sim is different from a web of choice style RPG. Hell I shared a Dishonored 2 footage, and was met with a goal post change.
EDMIX
Member
I don't care bud.
Stop fucking arguing for the sake of it.
its like you keep getting defensive as if its Baldur's Gate vs Starfield,
I own both fucking games....
What I'm saying is Starfield has choices, Baldur's Gate has MORE choices.
The type of game Starfield is, it would make sense for them to have more choices that alter the game as they've had this in their past titles to bigger extremes like a whole fucking town blowing up.
I'm not telling Baldur's Gate 3 is a fucking space game with ships and shit, stop. I'm pretty sure you can understand what is being said and I see no reason to be trying to force this odd strawman argument of asking about all this other irrelevant shit.
Starfield is not Far Cry, its not GTA, its literally a RPG that already has choices and the suggestion of having MORE choices is not this fucking wild to be dying over acting as if this is a hill to die on or something.
This has nothing to fucking do with "siMulAltioNz" or anything even remotely like that.
Starfield already has choices and asking for it to have more is not this deep, radical concept that suddenly can't be done cause its a simulation.
Pretty sure you can fucking "simulate" a planet getting Nuked lol
vaibhavpisal
Member
I agree that if a game has choices, it needs to have more choices. If a game is good, it needs to be better.
I don't agree with comparing games that don't belong to same genre or follow same principle.
Will Starfield ever have choices like Baldurs Gate 3. Don't think so.
Does Baldurs Gate 3 has events like Bethesda games usually have. I haven't seen any.
Rest assured i will play both of them thoroughly. Proper comparison can only be made after I have played both of them.
Bojji
Member
Game of the decade 4 weeks after official release.
I think most people will agree that Starfield is a good game, I spent 70h with it and it was fun most of the time. Problem is, with this developer, publisher, time, money and expectations this game should be ~90 MC+ GOTY caliber.
YeulEmeralda
Member
Maybe Starfield is deliberately streamlined because Bethesda knows what sells more- and it isn't Planescape Torment intricate dialogue.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
John Wick
Member
It's quite obvious what he's doing. BG3 and Cyberpunk are both better than Starfield. The reason why he's arguing is that Starfield is an Xbox console exclusive. Whereas both BG3 and Cyberpunk are available for PS5.............
EDMIX
Member
No one is fucking saying they need to, we are saying Starfield needs to have more choices cause clearly another game has more choices and its helping that game...
If I tell you another game has a fucking map in to help gamers, you telling me I can't say cause GTA isn't like Starfield? Cause Watchdogs isn't like Starfield?
Sir...the elements that are being talked about here do not mean both games must 1.1 be the same, it is saying they BOTH HAVE THE SAME ELEMENTS, one of them should have MORE of the element to make it better, cause that other game is doing great with having more of it.
Where you got this idea that they must be the same for us to talk about this is beyond me as it literally sounds like an excuse to disregard some obvious criticism about the game.
Doesn't matter, like 95% of what you've been saying has almost zero relevance to the point many of us have been making about Starfield being able to have more choice options.
Nothing in Starfield supports the idea that its being benefited by having less choice and less option and you've yet to explain to anyone why being a so called "Simulation" is an idea that support little choices (nevermind that the very fucking idea of simulation is to mimic real life, thus actually have MORE choices) lol
You can do that, I'm not arguing if you should or shouldn't, it has no relevance to the points that was made about any of this.
I'm sure most who can read, understand what being said without even playing either title.
BG3 has more choices
Starfield should have more choices then it already has....as it already fucking has this concept, It should have more.
I don't even understand how saying they should have more, is now a debate as if less choice and option is suppose to be praised as if you getting some benefit from this or something lol
GHG
Member
It can, and it doesn't even need to be part of a scripted quest, it can happen as part of your general interactions with the various characters in the game world.
This sort of thing was also present in the previous D:OS games. You've jumped into the deep end here without the knowledge of how to swim.
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EDMIX
Member
Pretty much.
I don't even know how we went from Fallout 3 and NV, to Fallout 4.
It feels like Fallout 4 is a recession of those ideas and Starfield continues that.
All I ask is for 1 choice to throw a MFer out the airlock, just 1! lol
GymWolf
Member
I mean...if this is even partially true, writing on f3 was also dogshit...and new vegas wasn't made by bethesda...
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EDMIX
Member
I mean...if this is even partially true, writing on f3 was also dogshit...and new vegas wasn't made by bethesda...
All that did is make me want to play Fallout 3 again lol
I don't disagree with you though.
rhodesianshepard
Member
I'm about about 25 hours into Cyberpunk base game 2.0 after refunding within hours after 2020 release. It is really fantastic. I'm mostly just messing around with the side gigs but I have never played an open world game that has so many well crafted interiors. You can explore so much! I am continually shocked at how the environments feel unique, not only aestecially, but especially from a gameplay perspective. It's not cut and pasted like 90% of other open world games.
Jayjayhd34
Member
I've just finished cyberpunk 100% and have to say its hands down the best game I've played Adam smasher is something else
graywolf323
Member
I’ll always have a soft spot for Fallout 3 because I grew up in Northern Virginia so it was amazing exploring the Capital Wasteland
GymWolf
Member
He get smashed by everyone in 30 sec because everyone is god personified by the end of the game
Slicker than your average
Banned
18 pages and still the starfield defence of "you can't compare genres; it's not fair" 
.
Yes you can.
.Yes you can.
Mediocre Arachno-Lad
Member
I got that you're a pretentious know-nothing, and nauseating misuse of buzzwords like "systemic", "simulated" and "immersive" that I guess you heard daddy Todd say in his interviews, is doing all the heavy lifting for your arguments.
If that's what you were trying to get across, we gucci.
EDIT:
I even name-dropped it, too.
You're so bad faith at this point, I actually believe you'll find a way to rationalize it so you don't feel like a complete retard.
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Secret ending option from the base game was a solid challenge at least!He get smashed by everyone in 30 sec because everyone is god personified by the end of the game
GymWolf
Member
I did the finale where you let johnny handle things, can you tell me without much of a spoiler what i need to do for this secret ending?
If i search by myself i'm probably gonna get a spoiler.
Other people in the known can answer aswell.
It’s really unlikely to figure out without looking it up. You need to have high affinity with Johnny and done all his personal stuff with Rogue et al in a way that he both respects you and likes you, then when you are upstairs looking over the city shortly after the point of no return after talking to the Arisaka lady, you have to stay on the big choice for several minutes without deciding, going back and forth between the options. If you do that long enough Johnny will step in and suggest an insane third option.
Go and become a legend…
GymWolf
Member
Tough shit then because i hate johnny and i shit on him whenever i can in the current run.
Thanks anyway.
YeulEmeralda
Member
Yeah that guy was cooler in the anime. Presumably he has decades of experience and although V has talent she's only been a runner for a few years and no military training.He get smashed by everyone in 30 sec because everyone is god personified by the end of the game
GooseMan69
Member
I can’t personally speak for Starfield because I haven’t played it, but I will say people in my personal life seem to have bounced off it pretty hard. They have all either gone back to their regular rotation of games (apex and the like), or are talking about getting AC Mirage and Forza. Definitely not the sensation that Skyrim was at launch.
Dynasty8
Member
It has that rollercoaster effect. Some highs and many lows. I'll admit that the scale of the game.is very impressive, but the game just feels very generic. The combat, the character animations, and even the exploration just didn't click since I felt most things ended up being pointless with the most absurd weight system to a game. Then there's the story, characters and writing. Just felt very bland.
I had to rinse the bad taste it left. Playing Cyberpunk definitely helped. It literally does everything better.
phant0m
Member
Both games are great. I find Starfield to have deeper RPG elements particularly as it pertains to story/characters/outcomes. The outcomes of missions in CP2077 are pretty rigid/predefined. You get a lot of freedom in how you complete a mission but the end is always the same, it doesn’t matter if you stealth, go non-lethal, blast the hell out of everyone or talk your way out.
Starfield offers far more variety in both outcomes and characters. You can also spend 50h in the game after getting to New Atlantis not doing a damn thing in the main story. Sure, 2077 has side missions too but they’re a lot more gated off until you progress the MSQ and the game does it’s best to keep dragging you along in that.
Alllllll of that said, I got about 15 hrs into Starfield before 2077 2.0 came out and still haven’t gone back. I want to, but am finding 2077 a good bit more fun.
Starfield offers far more variety in both outcomes and characters. You can also spend 50h in the game after getting to New Atlantis not doing a damn thing in the main story. Sure, 2077 has side missions too but they’re a lot more gated off until you progress the MSQ and the game does it’s best to keep dragging you along in that.
Alllllll of that said, I got about 15 hrs into Starfield before 2077 2.0 came out and still haven’t gone back. I want to, but am finding 2077 a good bit more fun.
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GymWolf
Member
Not completely true.
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