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Gran Turismo 7 to only support Ray tracing in Replays

Bogroll

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So premier that the devs dumbed the series for a “reboot”.

@ManaByte You can downplay what you want, but its a fact that Forza 7 was the worst and least popular version in the series. The devs didn’t really bother much about this game post-launch. And since you guys like to compare Horizon with almost every game (i mean wtf even with Rift Apart??) Horizon itself destroyed the popularity of Motorsports.
It did have some updates post launch, not as many as GTS but it was pretty much finished at launch. GTS was barebones for ages and any updates are mostly cars (F7 still has way more)and patches for the dreaded blue screen when racing.
 

Bogroll

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... the fun people had, listing every bug, issue on the forza reddit. The game was "special".
Most of us original GT fans would love to get a car like that change the exhaust and tune it up etc in GTS like you can in F7.
Hopefully it returns in GT7 and I know its coming according to the trailers but I hope its there at launch and launches in March (pigs just flew past) not in 2024.
 

Emet_bp

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for gt7 probably 4k withouth rt will look better than 1440p with rt reflections in 1080p cb that you would have problem to see in real gameplay, (at least for me because im playing 1.2m from 55inch tv ;d)
To be honest there is no problem in giving us 3 options:
- 4K with RT in replays, menu etc.
- 1440p with RT everywhere
- 1280-1440p without RT @ 120HZ
 
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phil_t98

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I just think while these consoles are vastly powerful there isn't much overhead for amazing raytracing, could this be where the extra power of the xbox could finally be shown? not sure to be honest but I don't think ray tracing will be fully utilised till next gen
 
Oct 26, 2018
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Great PR from Sony 😜

Not the only time Sony mislead about RT.

They did the same thing with Demon's Souls. Their website said it had RT in the whole time, but then about a month before launch they changed the description and omitted RT.

Even some employee who was interviewed was dicking around about it a month or so before launch. One day in an interview he said it had RT. Then a day or two later he told a different game site there wasnt RT. So which is it? Turns out the latter.
 

M1chl

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Hybrid RT + raster approach for consoles makes very little sense. Because the architecture of RDNA2 isn't exactly good at it. But as we. saw full RT approach is possible and it nets good results, because those RT/raster paths does not have to share resources, not the mention is not exactly efficient approach.

Hopefully we move into that direction paved by 4A soon.
 
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Negotiator101

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People really don't understand how processor intensive Raytracing is. Say its in game and you have 20 cars or something similar. Every single car would have to reflect off each other while also reflecting the environments, every part of a car is reflective 🙄
 

John Wick

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I didnt follow GT7 PR in the past, but they stated RT in gameplay? Was it shown in gameplay videos? Or were they vague about RT, or just showed it in zoomed in replays?

If Sony only showed RT in replays, they can technically say "we never claimed RT everywhere or in gameplay"
They never claimed RT in gameplay but fanboys ran with it when they showed it in their reveal trailer.
 

MonarchJT

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not to defend PD but honestly until we will not get full scene rt (and is impossibile on most powerful PC gpus) we can do also without those partial reflections ...are not a visual changing thing

btw i don't like how the marketing pr from Sony is working lately is misleading or at least not very clear about lots of things
 
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ZywyPL

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People really don't understand how processor intensive Raytracing is. Say its in game and you have 20 cars or something similar. Every single car would have to reflect off each other while also reflecting the environments, every part of a car is reflective 🙄

Yeah, basically every car is a 360 degree mirror, plus the environment, so I think it's safe to say we won't see RT during the actual races this gen, not in FH5, GT7, next year's FM8, any future AC, PCars etc.
 
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Snake29

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Yeah, basically every car is a 360 degree mirror, plus the environment, so I think it's safe to say we won't see RT during the actual races this gen, not in FH5, GT7, next year's FM8, any future AC, PCars etc.

Like i said before, I still think based on this interview that they want to implement RT in the future for gameplay. I looks like it does had have RT for the mirrors. So my guess is that they implement RT shadows and lighting in the future. GT Sport already has a great looking SSR and cubemap implementation ingame.

I played a GT Sports again after the PS5 release and i was blown away how stunning it still looks and the sound of the cars is amazing.

 
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sncvsrtoip

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To be honest there is no problem in giving us 3 options:
- 4K with RT in replays, menu etc.
- 1440p with RT everywhere
- 1280-1440p without RT @ 120HZ
only problem have with 120fps mode, it could give some slight advantage in multiplayer and we know its cross play vs ps4 and ps4 for sure can't have this mode
 

M1chl

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To be honest there is no problem in giving us 3 options:
- 4K with RT in replays, menu etc.
- 1440p with RT everywhere
- 1280-1440p without RT @ 120HZ
Again somewhat implying that these things scale linearly, they don't especially not in shared memory pool architecture. So it depends how you do your engine, one engine does not work as the other one (not sure if PD is actually borrowing/sharing tech with other Sony's studios).
 

Demon2blades

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Sound! then if Forza has it i think people can expect it for gt7 at some point , my point is though these consoles aren't 4k raytracing power houses and that will become even more apparent as the gen progress .
 

Hunnybun

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Unfortunately Nvidia’s marketing team was at full force and Sony and Microsoft had to follow. Pair that with Digital Foundry porn obsession with RTX and we have a clusterfuck of anxious gamers wanting to see something that they can only appreciate in still shots with red arrows pointing at a zoomed object.

I've been sceptical about the viability of RT on consoles since the start.

For a start, it's either at the expense of 60fps or a LOT of extra pixels, both of which are major sacrifices.

And secondly the quality that can be produced even then isn't that impressive anyway. It's only ever reflections or shadows, and the reflections are always low res and simplified. And generally during gameplay don't look much different from SSR anyway.

It all just seems way too compromised at this point. So far I've always chosen 60fps over RT. For Doom Eternal I chose 4k.

The problem with GT7 isn't that it won't have RT, it's that so much of it still just looks like Sport.
 
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Hunnybun

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Just please don’t make the replays letter boxed again. I hated that on GT Sport. GT games arguably have the best replays in the business, so I want them in all their full screen glory.

Omg I fucking HATED that!! Actually i fucking hate all uses of that ultrawide ratio to appear "cinematic". So irritating.
 
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supernova8

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Thanks for the reply.

Im quietly hoping i wont have to upgrade my Logitech G27!

BTW, will time trials and online racing be cross-compatible between PS4-5? No unwanted advantage/disadvantage either way?

From my quick scan of the article (without translating it), no I don't think there was any mention of that stuff. A big chunk of the interview was mainly Yamauchi just blabbering on about he likes cars, and other bits were just non-information marketing fluff.
 
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Hunnybun

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Polyphony is not the same that it used to be in terms of tech.

They havent made a trully great GT game in ages. GT Sport was good, but it took many updates to get there, tons of last gen cars, horrible environments (that are also present in GT 7) and etc.

Some japanese studios are stuck in the past, and I'm affraid that Polyphony is one of them

Aiming for 4k/60 is fucking laughable. Put a 1440p ray traced option, ffs.

For me it seems increasingly like the entire Japanese development industry is a backwater.

That's why I just ignore those rumours about Sony creating a new Japanese studio. Why would they? They literally just closed one failing studio over there.

How many actual technically cutting edge games come out of Japan these days? I think Death Stranding is the only one I can think of. Generally they seem to be years behind the best Western developers.
 
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zombrex

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Game devs need to open up resolution and frame rate options to player.
I should be able to choose 1080p/1440p and 120fps if that is what I desire instead of 4k 60fps.
No doubt they want to keep framerates low to not put ps4 players at a disadvantage in online racing.
Making this game cross gen really sucks. We will have to wait 10 years for a true ps5 quality Gran Turismo game and then that game will be cross gen with ps6.

edit: sorry to double post.
 
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zombrex

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If I understand correctly is going to have over 400 cars
Which is also disappointing because GT SPORT already has over 338. So we are getting maybe 70 new cars?
And so far three "new" circuits from previous games... and one genuinely new circuit hinted at.
This game has such little new content it is barely an expansion pack.
For all this time that is pathetic. Should be called GTsport plus.
Sorry if that's too negative but I'm really dissapointed.
 
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Allandor

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To be honest there is no problem in giving us 3 options:
- 4K with RT in replays, menu etc.
- 1440p with RT everywhere
- 1280-1440p without RT @ 120HZ
Having a 120fps option, would always mean that the "normal" game wouldn't use all available CPU resources. You can scale back graphics, but AI and so own is not that good at scaling if the game should be the same.
Currently it might be possible if PS4 is also getting a 60fps mode, but for future titles, I really don't see it. Maybe an open framerate mode (hopefully with VRR) so future consoles can lift those games to 120fps.


To the topic:
So marketing was misleading again. This happens quite a lot to sonys marketing these days.
But so far I already expected something like that as they didn't show real gameplay but just replays from different camera angles and in GT replays looked always better (better models, textures, ...) than the real gameplay.
 
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ZywyPL

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Having a 120fps option, would always mean that the "normal" game wouldn't use all available CPU resources. You can scale back graphics, but AI and so own is not that good at scaling if the game should be the same.
Currently it might be possible if PS4 is also getting a 60fps mode, but for future titles, I really don't see it. Maybe an open framerate mode (hopefully with VRR) so future consoles can lift those games to 120fps.

The question is IF there will be any advancements at all in to begin with, or will it be the same old GT with its outdated mechanisms... All the trailers so far indicate it's the same old crappy/boring AI that just goes on its optimal line and doesn't even try to race. The collisions will most likely remain the same as well. It's a cross gen game after all, it'll run at 60FPS on base PS4, so 120Hz should be easily doable on PS5.
 

angelgs90

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I think this game would benefit from 2 graphic modes. Native 4K is just too expensive.

Native 4k 60fps (Resolution mode)
1440p 60fps (Fidelity mode)
 
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Zathalus

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Why are some people blaming cross-gen here? If anything, it would be easier to slap some RT on a cross-gen game that is not really pushing the hardware.

As to the topic, is anyone here honestly surprised? GT has always prioritised framerate and resolution, and 4k/60FPS with RT is just not going to be possible this generation. With RT these consoles are at best 2070/2070 Super levels. How many games can those GPUs do 4k/60FPS RT without DLSS? I think the answer is zero.

Now if they used checkerboard or 1440p then I am sure it would have been possible.
 

ZywyPL

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Why are some people blaming cross-gen here? If anything, it would be easier to slap some RT on a cross-gen game that is not really pushing the hardware.

As to the topic, is anyone here honestly surprised? GT has always prioritised framerate and resolution, and 4k/60FPS with RT is just not going to be possible this generation. With RT these consoles are at best 2070/2070 Super levels. How many games can those GPUs do 4k/60FPS RT without DLSS? I think the answer is zero.

But that's exactly what's going on here. GT:S already runs at 1800p+CBR 6 60fps on PS4Pro, so one might have think that adding RT on top of it shouldn't be an issue, especially when RT was marketed from day 1...
 

RoboFu

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Idk why people keep trying to compare GT with forza horizon? They are 2 different games. FH has wayyy more objects on screen with collision than GT. More objects = more objects to render. I still have hope that the next FMS will incorporate RT lighting.
 

Hunnybun

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But that's exactly what's going on here. GT:S already runs at 1800p+CBR 6 60fps on PS4Pro, so one might have think that adding RT on top of it shouldn't be an issue, especially when RT was marketed from day 1...

Yeah, not sure why nobody seems to account for the base performance on last gen consoles.

Ratchet showed that PS5 can do 4x resolution, RT AND a big improvement in overall fidelity, all at the same time.

GT7 appears to be doing 4x the resolution, very minimal increase in fidelity, and no RT. All signs point to this being a pretty technically underwhelming release.

Or is there some fundamental difference between going from 1080p30 to 4k30 and 1080p60 to 4k60 that I'm not aware of? Is RT more than propertioally demanding at higher frame rates?

Genuine questions, btw.
 

Shut0wen

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Fuck me! Another one.

The shit that forza got for this. Classic Sony move here.

What a shit show.
Thing is its totally do able but ever since kaz become a perfectionist on gran turismo 4 or 5 on the ps3 sony has totally held him back so that he meets deadlines
 

Rac3r

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Like i said before, I still think based on this interview that they want to implement RT in the future for gameplay. I looks like it does had have RT for the mirrors. So my guess is that they implement RT shadows and lighting in the future. GT Sport already has a great looking SSR and cubemap implementation ingame.

I played a GT Sports again after the PS5 release and i was blown away how stunning it still looks and the sound of the cars is amazing.


Indeed GT Sport is mind blowing at times, even with the 2d rotating trees, etc. It's my most played game from last gen, well over 500 hours, and I'm still surprised at how real it looks when I'm watching a replay.

No other console racing game really compares imo, maybe other than Driveclub? Forza fans will say the new Horizon game, but it looks cartoony in comparison to GTS.
 

sinnergy

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Indeed GT Sport is mind blowing at times, even with the 2d rotating trees, etc. It's my most played game from last gen, well over 500 hours, and I'm still surprised at how real it looks when I'm watching a replay.

No other console racing game really compares imo, maybe other than Driveclub? Forza fans will say the new Horizon game, but it looks cartoony in comparison to GTS.
One is open world … just saying
 
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RT reflections or no RT reflections would be practically impossible to notice while racing, assuming good SSR. Would rather full rtgi to really plant the cars on the tracks, but I doubt that's going to happen on console or my PC without upscaling.
 
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Spukc

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why are the GT and FORZA fanbases so fucking toxic to each other?
It's not that forza is taken serious by racefans in anyway, it's just a fun arcadey experience
 
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RoboFu

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RT reflections or no RT reflections would be practically impossible to notice while racing, assuming good SSR. Would rather full rtgi to really plant the cars on the tracks, but I doubt that's going to happen on console or my PC without upscaling.
RT reflections yes, RT lighting and shadows is easily noticeable that it’s absent. GT specially still retains that look of the cars being on a completely different lighting system than the environments they are in.
 
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AncientOrigin

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I am surprised at some of the negative reactions here.First of all GT always looked amazing photo realistic often had always amazing lighting.Ray Tracing in gameplay would be way to taxing.and you couldn’t really Admire it while driving because when you play you concentrate on the road what’s going on there.But for replay it’s perfect replays were always very amazing in GT like clips from real races now with RT will even look more amazing.People should cheer because we are getting an full GT game like in the good old days on ps2.The city view is so amazing all the dealerships Tuning Option.Everything will be absolutely amazing I have no doubt.So instead of being negative about something which isn’t really needed because GT will look outstanding,people should be happy to get a full GT Titel.Can’t wait like in an RPG game to buy a small Daihatsu and build it earn more get better and buy better cars was so much fun.I hate car games which only have super cars and race cars.GT without the old tiny cheap cars is not the same anymore it’s the soul of GT.
 
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No big deal for me, reflective surfaces don't impress me that much. There should be other ways to show off RT.
 

SlimySnake

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Great PR from Sony 😜

I am sure some loser will defend this.



Absolutely disgusting.
 

SlimySnake

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For me it seems increasingly like the entire Japanese development industry is a backwater.

That's why I just ignore those rumours about Sony creating a new Japanese studio. Why would they? They literally just closed one failing studio over there.

How many actual technically cutting edge games come out of Japan these days? I think Death Stranding is the only one I can think of. Generally they seem to be years behind the best Western developers.
Nah. Lets not trash an entire country's talent over a studio thats long been in decline. Both DMC5 and RE8 utilize ray tracing. Final Fantasy 7 looked incredible last year, integrate somehow looks even better with the new lighting on PS5.

PD just sucks.
 

rolandss

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To be honest I don’t care, I love GT games and will buy it day one, but this is an obvious symptom of being cross gen which is really disappointing.