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Gran Turismo 7 to only support Ray tracing in Replays

Turk1993

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To the people saying that Spiderman and R&C had RT at 60fps need to realize 1 thing, guess whats missing in both. Dynamic tod and weather, those 2 features are not easy to pull off with the lighting quality of GT. And this game is 4k60 not 1440p or 4K CB so its not comparable with those games. Sure i would also love if they gave us a 1440p RT mode or dynamic 4K with RT but it is what it is. We need to have realistic expectations with those consoles when it comes to RT, they are literally RTX 2060/2070 level when it comes to RT. Expecting next gen graphics with RT at 4k60 is just unrealistic.
 
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The tensor cores are for ML and are only used for dlss currently although they were originally for denoising aswell although that hasn't seemed to happen. They have separate RT cores for RT intersection and BVH traversal.

Ah, okay. Thanks for the corrections, I forgot Nvidia had other silicon in Ampere specifically for RT. IIRC, that silicon wasn't in the Turing seriess (2080, etc.) cards, right? But was added in with the Ampere lineup.

The RT cores and Tensor cores on nVIDIA GPU’s are not the same thing and AMD likely built their own version sitting next to the TMU HW (maybe less performant than the nVIDIA solution, not sure the like for like impact of intersections on texturing rate on each architecture, I think nVIDIA had issues about texturing in parallel to day intersections in the first generation solution like on XSX and PS5).


Compare it to XSX or PS5 (looks similar): RT intersection HW sitting between Shader ALU’s and Texture Units.


You are right about the tensor cores (ML) being a bit of a big key to this because nVIDIA does not need to waste shader performance denoising the coarse grained ray traced graphics: they have the Tensor Cores for it. This makes better use of the RT HW.

Yeah, my mistake on the Tensor Core stuff. I'm not an avid follower of Nvidia's GPU archs, altho I've always known the Tensor Cores help with some large part of the RT pipeline.

It's not too much a reach to say that there may be some hardware customizations on RDNA2 to assist in RT, but how good are those Ray Acceleration Units, really? Going by RT results between their and Nvidia's GPUs, it can't be that great. I thought it was just accepted by this point that AMD won't get serious about RT until their RDNA 3 lineup, but that's not due until late 2022/early 2023 (at the latest).

Sure, sure as if we were comparing apples to apples… let’s see how the car simulation at 60 FPS and likely VR support fares before we sell ifs

Of course it's not apples-to-apples they're very different styles of racers. But you do realize FH5 supports 60 FPS as well, right? So the only difference there is GT7 having VR support (which will be a big selling point, but also might be part of the reason RT is not supported in the game).

I´ve mastered, conquered the (NTSC-J) SSR11 chicane, before they patched it out for the PAL release.

GT7 won´t be a GT3, GT4 ..

- the gui is from gtsport
- limit seems to be 10 cars on track (due PS4?)
- a mere 26 tracks (8 USA, 9 EU, 9 JP)
- all tracks from GT Sport, except for 2x new announced
- 1x adria raceway coming
- still no fucking R246!
- most likely it´s based on GT Sport career ... just enhanced (more events), where one has to select a track > pick an event ... when GTMode was never like that. There better be a JP Championship, EU, US, Endurance Races, Sunday Cups, Clubman GTs ... and manufacture race (GT4) as well!
- no drive missions from GT4 ...
- shitty 3D overworld map, where time cycles as well for a stupid reason
- the rain effects driving behind one is weak compared to drive club, even GT5, GT6 have done it better
- where are all the classics tracks?
- 420 cars, 99.99% from GT Sport ... only 50 to 100 used cars?!

Sooooo...you're not gonna buy the game, then?
 

PaintTinJr

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To the people saying that Spiderman and R&C had RT at 60fps need to realize 1 thing, guess whats missing in both. Dynamic tod and weather, those 2 features are not easy to pull off with the lighting quality of GT. And this game is 4k60 not 1440p or 4K CB so its not comparable with those games. Sure i would also love if they gave us a 1440p RT mode or dynamic 4K with RT but it is what it is. We need to have realistic expectations with those consoles when it comes to RT, they are literally RTX 2060/2070 level when it comes to RT. Expecting next gen graphics with RT at 4k60 is just unrealistic.
Given the way the info is coming out, I'm more inclined to believe this game is a PS4/Pro game that has slipped by 18months, and has been further delayed to give it a cursory PS5 patch to eat up the extra performance to do native 4K.

Everything about GT7 gameplay graphics has looked very last-gen since the showcase IMHO, so I think it is a bit premature to make any assessment of how well the PS5 will do with SW RT from lumen and with some hardware RT too, when UE5 is being used properly with nanite and lumen.

As for expecting 4k60 with full scene hw RT, I completely agree, that is way beyond even the most expensive PCs, at the moment - and going by UE5 hw RT when enab;ed (with SW lumen RT), the problem isn't really resolution, as going from 720p to 4K doesn't cripple the frame-rate in the way, that just turning on full scene hw RT does. The biggest performance cost seems to be in the openworld, world space RT intersection tests. But by contrast a racing game like GT is essentially a ribbon/corridor rendering problem, so lots of the ribbon can be heavily optimised ahead of time, making the RT intersection tests easier to prioritise what matters to the scene and lighten the burden heavily.

I would expect GT8 Prologue to have RT while running at 1440p60, or 1080p60 at the very least, and given the nonsense with persistent online for GT7 and poor next-gen showing, I expect GT8 prologue to be 18months away - I hope it is, anyway, as I'm not buying this, and will continue to wait it out with GT5 and 6 on my PS3.
 
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Kagey K

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We're comparing this to Gran Turismo series right?

Where are you getting these numbers?
GT Sport players vs FH4 players.


 

Artistic

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GT Sport players vs FH4 players.


Alright thanks.

Not sure if GT Sport is considered a mainline GT release, but I'll still argue that Gran Turismo is still more popular than the Motorsport/Horizon series.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

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GT Sport players vs FH4 players.


We will never get proper sales figures with the introduction of Gamepass though I am one of the few fools who buys the ultimate editions of Forzas because I want ALL the cars and have never owned a GT game
 

sn0man

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I would expect GT8 Prologue to have RT while running at 1440p60, or 1080p60 at the very least, and given the nonsense with persistent online for GT7 and poor next-gen showing, I expect GT8 prologue to be 18months away - I hope it is, anyway, as I'm not buying this, and will continue to wait it out with GT5 and 6 on my PS3.
I’ve seen this sentiment a lot and I’m so thrilled that I’m not the only one. They really need to take this feedback seriously. Here,. GTPlanet and playstation blog have numerous complaints
 
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Kagey K

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We will never get proper sales figures with the introduction of Gamepass though I am one of the few fools who buys the ultimate editions of Forzas because I want ALL the cars and have never owned a GT game
I’ve bought the Ultimate edition of all of the Horizons too even though I was subscribed to Gamepass when 4 came out. I wanted the early access, VIP and car packs. 😅
 
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ReBurn

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Like i said before, I still think based on this interview that they want to implement RT in the future for gameplay. I looks like it does had have RT for the mirrors. So my guess is that they implement RT shadows and lighting in the future. GT Sport already has a great looking SSR and cubemap implementation ingame.

I played a GT Sports again after the PS5 release and i was blown away how stunning it still looks and the sound of the cars is amazing.

Looks boring. Is it always that slow?
 

sncvsrtoip

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GT Sport players vs FH4 players.


20k record ?
last 90 days there was never a day with smaller number than 20k active online players and we are talking about 4 years old game
 
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Bernkastel

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Kagey K

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20k record ?
last 90 days there was never a day with smaller number than 20k active online players and we are talking about 4 years old game
That tweet was strictly referring to the steam launch and steam concurrent, didn’t take into account console players into that number.

The 24 million was also from Nov 2020 and wouldnt take steam sales and players into account (which we know was another 2 million just from launch day.) as it hadn’t launched there yet.
 
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You realize Forza Horizon is the bigger series these days?
In terms of what? You gotta a source for Forza Horizon sales? Inflated numbers for being on GP, but GT sold a strong 8 million with over 9 million players and a major eSport game at that.

 
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DJ Shalad

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9.5 million players vs 24 million.

🤷‍♂️
Those include one time registered players, sign ups during a free weekend, on gamepass etc. all thrown in the same bag. How many are really playing the game though?
FMH4 sold 1.6mll. on steam, but only 10,000 to 20,000 are concurrently online (50,000 being top twice for 24h). Usually around 11,000 to 15,000+. In other words:

just 0.625% to 1.25% who bought it on steam, play the game on a daily basis. If we use this as a basis, we could conclude that of 24mll. only 150,000 to 300,000 are playing it on a daily basis.

WoW had peak about 15mll. paying, playing people .. with over 250 servers to maintain them (if not more). MMORPG companies do this to brag for decades. In actuality the number is much lower.

24mll. playing any game would require a few servers to handle every login, sign off, txt msg. sent, received, party request, interaction, quest completion, trophies, etc.

The number is way lower.




 

Bernkastel

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Those include one time registered players, sign ups during a free weekend, on gamepass etc. all thrown in the same bag. How many are really playing the game though?
so steam numbers now account for all platforms even though majority of the playerbase is on xbox? what is the wow comparison? no one said it has 24 million active players.
just 0.625% to 1.25% who bought it on steam, play the game on a daily basis. If we use this as a basis, we could conclude that of 24mll. only 150,000 to 300,000 are playing it on a daily basis.
If that was actually true, thats way higher than
 
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Kagey K

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Those include one time registered players, sign ups during a free weekend, on gamepass etc. all thrown in the same bag. How many are really playing the game though?
There aren’t 9.5 million playing GT sport right now either, and I was never trying to imply they were all playing at once.
 

TheGrat1

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GT7 is at 4k/60 with 24 hour night -day cycle and realtime weather ,you think they can add ray-tracing on top,deluded or what.
J Jonah Jameson Laughing GIF
'Twas a joke, my guy. I thought the "sort it out in a weekend" part would make it obvious. Guess not.

 

jigglet

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Frames are more important IMO. Although I'm surprised they aren't offering a 30fps version with RT for people who want it.
 

nikolino840

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People really don't understand how processor intensive Raytracing is. Say its in game and you have 20 cars or something similar. Every single car would have to reflect off each other while also reflecting the environments, every part of a car is reflective 🙄
Yes but it's why rt is cool and accurate
 
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Jibran#one

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Rt is useless, it's for people who buy expensive ass cards just to sleep good at night with their purchase that their shadows were properly reflected 2 cm than the fake ones .
Rt is waste of resources on consoles
 
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Kagey K

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I see Sony fans are now okay that the bar has lowered 🤣 framerate is important .. would be constant telling if this was a Xbox game .. wtf
The bar is always moving, the trick is when to catch it.

I love seeing the people argue one way for months and then tell you why it's a good thing when the story changes.
 
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TaiLopezFan

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Work on textures first. Ray tracing is a waste. Polyphony Digital sucks at everything nowadays. They are a shadow of their former selves. But GT7 will sell really well and I will buy it too because I love a realistic driving game with good progression and the genre now is dry after Project Cars 3 being dogshit and Motorsport being delisted.
 

molly14

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'Twas a joke, my guy. I thought the "sort it out in a weekend" part would make it obv
Your talking rubbish,you said this "Get Insomniac on the horn, they will get this sorted out in a weekend."

You were implying Polyphony were not up to the job of using RT during the races,and not just in the replays.

Thats why you mentioned Insomanic in your post,but good try in trying to pretend otherwise.
 
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welshrat

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Give up on RT and just go for 1440p and 60. I can't go back to 30. Having played around with RT on the PS5 and my 6800 Radeon I can see no tangible benefits. Maybe when it can be applied and still give really high FPS then great but not now especially on consoles.
 
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Zannrebel

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In terms of what? You gotta a source for Forza Horizon sales? Inflated numbers for being on GP, but GT sold a strong 8 million with over 9 million players and a major eSport game at that.

Forza Horizon 3 also had 10 million players, which wasn't on gamepass or steam. So yeah I think hes correct to say Forza Horizon is a bigger series these days .
 

Bodomism

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In terms of what? You gotta a source for Forza Horizon sales? Inflated numbers for being on GP, but GT sold a strong 8 million with over 9 million players and a major eSport game at that.

That 8 million copies isn't official number. It's most likely lower than that.
That was estimated games sales based on gamestat player counts(new copies, used copies, game sharing, and etc).

Unless it came from Sony nothing is official. zero real data is better than millions of fake data.
 
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Yoboman

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People really don't understand how processor intensive Raytracing is. Say its in game and you have 20 cars or something similar. Every single car would have to reflect off each other while also reflecting the environments, every part of a car is reflective 🙄
Just do RT on player car and SSR on the surrounding. Or even a LOD like system like Spiderman where certain objects are lower res or excluded

Polyphony are all or nothing when a good compromise could be found. The same nonsense as why they dont do damage models
 

sankt-Antonio

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You guys comparing user count from a gamepass game on two instal bases (xbox and pc) with a game that only PS people could buy to own? What...
 
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Banjo64

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You guys comparing user count from a gamepass game on two instal bases (xbox and pc) with a game that only PS people could buy to own? What...
Game has been £14 new RRP for years now (so normally cheaper than that) and when it’s regularly on sale it drops to £7. I don’t think cost is the prohibitive factor in people picking up GT Sport.
 

Negotiator101

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Just do RT on player car and SSR on the surrounding. Or even a LOD like system like Spiderman where certain objects are lower res or excluded

Polyphony are all or nothing when a good compromise could be found. The same nonsense as why they dont do damage models
Yes but is that a compromise too far? Every game so far on console using raytracing has had compromises and in most cases the end result is not worth the performance hit IMO.
 
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Shubh_C63

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oh man, the simple answer to this thread should have been,

Gran Turismo 7 to only support Ray tracing in Replays
Ok
 

DenchDeckard

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To say forza isn't bigger than gt is pretty crazy a forza title has tick tocked release more or less every year since gt 6 launched. There are more people playing regularly on forza titles than gt games. Forza Horizon was a big help in catapulting this to a larger audience thx to expansions such as hot wheels and lego. To think otherwise is a bit short sighted imo.

Gt is still big and I think they play amazingly well so I'm all over this. I'm sure and hope the game will be great on release but it is a disappointment to see Sony advertising features that make the games look more technically demanding then back peddling on it 3 to 6 months from launch.

I'm sure we will see the same thing with forza 8 so the tables can turn and we can have fans saying "remember how much shit gt got for not having RT...now look at F8" and the tables will once again be turned and the never ending circle of bollocks will continue to spin. Haha
 
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Aenima

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I´ve mastered, conquered the (NTSC-J) SSR11 chicane, before they patched it out for the PAL release.

GT7 won´t be a GT3, GT4 ..

- the gui is from gtsport
- limit seems to be 10 cars on track (due PS4?)
- a mere 26 tracks (8 USA, 9 EU, 9 JP)
- all tracks from GT Sport, except for 2x new announced
- 1x adria raceway coming
- still no fucking R246!
- most likely it´s based on GT Sport career ... just enhanced (more events), where one has to select a track > pick an event ... when GTMode was never like that. There better be a JP Championship, EU, US, Endurance Races, Sunday Cups, Clubman GTs ... and manufacture race (GT4) as well!
- no drive missions from GT4 ...
- shitty 3D overworld map, where time cycles as well for a stupid reason
- the rain effects driving behind one is weak compared to drive club, even GT5, GT6 have done it better
- where are all the classics tracks?
- 420 cars, 99.99% from GT Sport ... only 50 to 100 used cars?!
Some of your numbers are wrong. I sugest you visit GT Planet if you want acurate news and info about GT games.

- As with Sport, Yamauchi confirmed that GT7 will continue to support a maximum of 16 cars on track at a time.
- Thers 32 circuits confirmed with a total of 89 layouts/tracks.
 
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sankt-Antonio

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Game has been £14 new RRP for years now (so normally cheaper than that) and when it’s regularly on sale it drops to £7. I don’t think cost is the prohibitive factor in people picking up GT Sport.
I wouldn’t watch a single Netflix series if it cost 7€ extra. There is a massive difference between cheap and included.
 

IntentionalPun

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Some of y'all are so weird.. game will probably be the nicest looking circuit racer ever on consoles when it comes out. And it'll be fun.
 
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PaintTinJr

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Rt is useless, it's for people who buy expensive ass cards just to sleep good at night with their purchase that their shadows were properly reflected 2 cm than the fake ones .
Rt is waste of resources on consoles
You'd really need to see (SW RT) Lumen in action first hand, because the coherency of the real-time lighting combined with nanite rendered megascans at interactive frame-rates - using the drone mode - is a massive step up IMHO - even from any of the launch PS5 games that use RT.
 

Snake29

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Looks boring. Is it always that slow?

Boring...slow? Have you ever seen a race on tv...like DTM or something? These are not F1 cars. Even those look "slow" from different camera point, but from in the car it it's totally different.

Jep boring and slow...same as real races:


The camera in GT Sport follows the car most of the time. That's different like the fixed cameras in this video. There is also a difference between playing offline or online against other players.

To say forza isn't bigger than gt is pretty crazy a forza title has tick tocked release more or less every year since gt 6 launched. There are more people playing regularly on forza titles than gt games. Forza Horizon was a big help in catapulting this to a larger audience thx to expansions such as hot wheels and lego. To think otherwise is a bit short sighted imo.

Gt is still big and I think they play amazingly well so I'm all over this. I'm sure and hope the game will be great on release but it is a disappointment to see Sony advertising features that make the games look more technically demanding then back peddling on it 3 to 6 months from launch.

I'm sure we will see the same thing with forza 8 so the tables can turn and we can have fans saying "remember how much shit gt got for not having RT...now look at F8" and the tables will once again be turned and the never ending circle of bollocks will continue to spin. Haha

Forza Motorsports is not bigger then GT Sports. Last Motorsports game released in 2017 and it really the least popular Motorsports game, so not it's not crazy..it's a fact that GT Sports is way more popular then MotorSports. Horizon didn't help the Motorsports franchise to be more popular, in fact, it made people almost forgot that they also released another game with the Forza name in it.

You can't really come with the excuse because of Horizon, not really comparable with GT Sports. Why not compare Horizon also with other sim races? Why only with GT Sports?
 
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That 8 million copies isn't official number. It's most likely lower than that.
That was estimated games sales based on gamestat player counts(new copies, used copies, game sharing, and etc).

Unless it came from Sony nothing is official. zero real data is better than millions of fake data.
Where's the official sales data for Forza?
 

phil_t98

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The bar is always moving, the trick is when to catch it.

I love seeing the people argue one way for months and then tell you why it's a good thing when the story changes.

well yeah, saying how SSD will improve graphics for one, so not get me wrong the SSD is the ps5 is awesome but it won’t make graphics better.

as I said earlier the ps5 and series x are not powerful enough for full ray tracing but the Xbox may get an advantage with the extra horsepower put towards things like ray tracing.

mine thing I will also add is in driving in the game everything is so fast that full ray tracing maybe a waste and maybe it is better that it’s only fully used in replays where we can appreciate what it’s doing