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[YeulEmeralda]

People who buy €400 consoles aren't going to buy €2000 PCs. There will always be a market for consoles.

 

[DragonNCM]

Sony could actually end up doing the PC launcher/storefront business right: Start as overlay, refine basic features and slowly build it up as an alternative to steam with User chat and cross achievements before taking their 1P titles exclusive.

This is joke....right ?

 

[skit_data]

The timing of that "trojan horse"-thread the other day was impeccable.

Yeah, I know it's a bit silly and not really the same but it's hard not to see the parallels between the two topics.

 

[DragonNCM]

Ghost of Tsushima on PC reveals Sony's Trojan Horse to turn millions of PC users into Playstation users​

Edit: I have no idea why the font is so big, but fuck it, we roll.

Ghost of Tsushima on PC reveals Sony's Trojan Horse to turn millions of Playstation users into Playstation users​

There I corrected for you

 

[rofif]

PC players already happy to "buy" the game on pc...
lol btw latest niktek short is great

 

[DenchDeckard]

Microsoft requires that you sign in with an Microsoft account, not Xbox. There is a difference. You know this. And no, this isn't some ricidulous trojan horse MAU move. I'm simply mocking the other thread.

I'm sure I sign in with an Xbox account when I'm playing on the xbox app on my pc and it tracks my achievements, cross progression and sometimes cross buy.

I put money that Sony counts PC users as playstation monthly MAU if you sign into playstation and use these features.

Mock that thread all you want but we both know the above paragraph is true.

 

[Topher]

I'm sure I sign in with an Xbox account when I'm playing on the xbox app on my pc and it tracks my achievements, cross progression and sometimes cross buy.

Not true. You "sign in" with your Microsoft account. That account is associated with your Xbox account, but they are separate accounts. I posted the Microsoft support article stating that fact. You even replied to and acknowledged this.

PlayStation gamers can log in with a Microsoft account to play Sea of Thieves and not have an Xbox account at all. PC gamers wanting to PSN overlay, trophies, etc. must log in with a PSN account. This is why the other thread is a joke in light of this recent news. The whole PlayStation gamers are Xbox MAUs trojan horse gotcha was just bullshit.

I put money that Sony counts PC users as playstation monthly MAU if ypu sign into playstation and use this so I don't understand why you seem to have your knickers in a twist?

Mock that thread all you want but we both know the above paragraph is true.

lol....the paragraph that starts with "I put money...." is somehow a statement of truth?

Only one who seems upset here is you.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Not true. You "sign in" with your Microsoft account. That account is associated with your Xbox account, but they are separate accounts. I posted the Microsoft support article stating that fact. You even replied to and acknowledged this.

PlayStation gamers can log in with a Microsoft account to play Sea of Thieves and not have an Xbox account at all. PC gamers wanting to PSN overlay, trophies, etc. must log in with a PSN account. This is why the other thread is a joke in light of this recent news. The whole PlayStation gamers are Xbox MAUs trojan horse gotcha was just bullshit.



lol....the paragraph that starts with "I put money...." is somehow a statement of truth?

Only one who seems upset here is you.

I think we have our wires crossed here. My initial post in this thread was discussing microsoft bringing games to pc and using the xbox app, that offers xbox achievements, cross save, cross buy. Does this microsoft account do that on the xbox app on pc? I havent checked that thread after I posted as I didnt see a quoted notification, ill check to see if my last question was answered about that.

So this microsoft account tracks all your achievements, saves and more on xbox?

It just felt like you were looking for confrontation and seemed at odds with my post when we are basically agreeing?

I don't understand your last part? Are you saying that you don't think sony will count these players and sign ins as MAU...I'm so confused right now

 

[PixelatedBeast]

One step closer to day one PC, every time something like this happens.

Might not be for several years yet, maybe not until PS6, but it's coming. The writing is on all four walls of the house.

Delusional to think Sony is going to give up their platform to chase 30% percent revenue share with Steam. Business doesnt work like that.

PlayStationion games dont sell much on PC. Helldivers is barely keeping up with Spiderman 2, and thats supposed to be the surprise hit games this year on both platforms.

Let us know when a beautiful game that leverages current technologies like Rachet and Clank manages to sell even half million copies on Steam, or Epic....

 

[DenchDeckard]

Delusional to think Sony is going to give up their platform to chase 30% percent revenue share with Steam. Business doesnt work like that.

PlayStationion games dont sell much on PC. Helldivers is barely keeping up with Spiderman 2, and thats supposed to be the surprise hit games this year on both platforms.

Let us know when a beautiful game that leverages current technologies Rachet and Clank manages to sell even half million copies on Steam, or Epic....

They will take 30% more than nothing. If more and more users are moving to pc and the next generation of kids aren't remotely interested in consoles, Sony will welcome a sale over potentially no sale at all.

 

[AV]

Delusional to think Sony is going to give up their platform to chase 30% percent revenue share with Steam. Business doesnt work like that.

PlayStationion games dont sell much on PC. Helldivers is barely keeping up with Spiderman 2, and thats supposed to be the surprise hit games this year on both platforms.

Let us know when a beautiful game that leverages current technologies Rachet and Clank manages to sell even half million copies on Steam, or Epic....

I didn't mention Steam. And the sales of games released 6-12 months late are never going to match launch day, but even so, they don't have to match Console sales, they just have to think it's worth it. Kind of like how they've, you know, started putting their games on PC, because it's worth it.

A few years ago people laughed at the idea of them even putting a single PS game on PC, now it's expected, and we're getting more and more parity. Times change. The signs are being nailed to people's eyelids and they still can't see what's in front of them.

 

[Topher]

I think we have our wires crossed here. My initial post in this thread was discussing microsoft bringing games to pc and using the xbox app, that offers xbox achievements, cross save, cross buy. Does this microsoft account do that on the xbox app on pc? I havent checked that thread after I posted as I didnt see a quoted notification, ill check to see if my last question was answered about that.

So this microsoft account tracks all your achievements, saves and more on xbox?

It just felt like you were looking for confrontation and seemed at odds with my post when we are basically agreeing?

I don't understand your last part? Are you saying that you don't think sony will count these players and sign ins as MAU...I'm so confused right now

Using the Xbox app requires an Xbox account which is tied to your MS account. An Xbox account is not always needed though. PS gamers playing Sea of Thieves is an example. Same for Steam gamers.

I'm at odds with framing any of this in the same way as that ridiculous "trojan horse" thread. Folks need to stop obsessing over how MAUs are being counted. It is as if the console war nonsense is being replayed but now with MAUs. If Sony were to proclaim Steam gamers as PlayStation MAUs then that should be called out as bullshit because that is what it is. Platforms do not magically move to other platforms just because a game got ported there.

We had console warriors. What's next? MAU warriors?

 

[Punished Miku]

If Sony were to proclaim Steam gamers as PlayStation MAUs then that should be called out as bullshit because that is what it is. Platforms do not magically move to other platforms just because a game got ported there.

I genuinely don't care about MAU debates, but I think all the platform holders will very quickly consider the "platform" to be the digital account log-in. PS log-in will almost surely be on multiple devices.

 

[Fabieter]

They will take 30% more than nothing. If more and more users are moving to pc and the next generation of kids aren't remotely interested in consoles, Sony will welcome a sale over potentially no sale at all.

People told me there wont ever be an exodus so sony wont make bad business decisions so idk where you are at.

 

[Astray]

This is joke....right ?

If you think they're just giving away their blockbusters day 1 on PC and handing that %30-20 to Steam/Epic then you are very mistaken.

 

[Topher]

I genuinely don't care about MAU debates, but I think all the platform holders will very quickly consider the "platform" to be the digital account log-in. PS log-in will almost surely be on multiple devices.

I want to disagree but these days....who knows? If that happens then the numbers have become far too embellished to have any real meaning.

 

[AV]

If you think they're just giving away their blockbusters day 1 on PC and handing that %30-20 to Steam/Epic then you are very mistaken.

What, like Microsoft do?

 

[yurinka]

Consoles are far from the "plug & play experience" they once were. You have to deal with a lot of unnecessary bullshit to get into a game on consoles as well. And you only can deal with it how the manufacturers want, so they are effectively just more restrictive PCs nowadays.

I suggest you to go and use a PS3 years later. You'll get a gazillion firmware and game updates, sluggish store and super long loading times. That was crap. They improved a lot since then.

You have to deal with a lot of unnecessary bullshit to get into a game on consoles as well.

Please share some examples.

As for compatibility and performance issues: There are multiple threads on this very forum bemoaning performance issues of console games and people jerking off over the concept of a "PS5 Pro" that may or may not achieve 4k@60 by just brute-forcing bad optimization away. Performance issues mostly arise due to bad optimization and affect both consoles and PC. It's a developer problem. If you give them a more powerful console, they will find a way to still release badly optimized games. As we have already witness a couple of generations already.

Yes, obviously the optimization depends on the game. But the average case on console with a non-crybaby user is good enough in 99% of the cases.

Look: Both consoles and PC have their pros and cons but the lines between both are fuzzy nowadays. Valve/Steam try to consolize the PC experience while consoles have "PCified" theirs. With varying rates of success. I'd buy a PS5 in a heartbeat if it were as plug & play as the PS2 was.

What did consoles "pcfied"?

And what do you mean by "not being as plug and play"? Games load way faster in PS5 than in PS2, even more than in PC. If there's some game update it downloads and installs automatically in the background, and you'll have it ready for the next time you play. That's all.

You even has the option to buy the game digitally, so you don't even spend time changing discs. You can even play games via streaming, skipping the downloading time and having to clean the fridge if your SDD is full.

 

[PixelatedBeast]

I didn't mention Steam. And the sales of games released 6-12 months late are never going to match launch day, but even so, they don't have to match Console sales, they just have to think it's worth it. Kind of like how they've, you know, started putting their games on PC, because it's worth it.

A few years ago people laughed at the idea of them even putting a single PS game on PC, now it's expected, and we're getting more and more parity. Times change. The signs are being nailed to people's eyelids and they still can't see what's in front of them.

Aint nothing going to change unless those games sales pick up. Thats the only writting on the wall that matters. Everything else you said is arbitrary without the context of actual numbers. Thats why I say its delusional, but dont let me stop you from thinking Sony wants to devalue their platform.

 

[Astray]

What, like Microsoft do?

You forget that:

1) Microsoft already tried doing the "our store only" trick with games like Quantum Break etc. Didn't work for various reasons that go beyond just "it's not Steam".
2) Microsoft spent a ton of cash acquiring Bethesda (and then Activision), both are very reliant on Steam revenue, so they can't just immediately pull all the titles, not while they are still trying to at least make part of the money back.

I actually predict that launcher wars will intensify in the coming years, Microsoft has Battle.net to fall back on if necessary, and Sony has a motive to launch day 1 on PC while keeping all the money.

 

[AV]

Aint nothing going to change unless those games sales pick up. Thats the only writting on the wall that matters. Everything else you said is arbitrary without the context of actual numbers. Thats why I say its delusional, but dont let me stop you from thinking Sony wants to devalue their platform.

Gladly ignore the part where I already point out that port sales 6-12+ after release aren't the same as a global PC release.

Hint: their platform has included PC since August 20th, 2020. Much like I open the "Xbox" app on my PC. I'm not saying it'll be any time soon, will be a few years, but it's inevitable - see you then.

 

[AV]

You forget that:

1) Microsoft already tried doing the "our store only" trick with games like Quantum Break etc. Didn't work for various reasons that go beyond just "it's not Steam".
2) Microsoft spent a ton of cash acquiring Bethesda (and then Activision), both are very reliant on Steam revenue, so they can't just immediately pull all the titles, not while they are still trying to at least make part of the money back.

I actually predict that launcher wars will intensify in the coming years, Microsoft has Battle.net to fall back on if necessary, and Sony has a motive to launch day 1 on PC while keeping all the money.

I'm not suggesting it's the same, but it's not outside the realms of possibility if Sony think that 30% gets it into the hands of at least 30% more PC gamers. They, you and I all know how tribal PC gamers can be about Steam. They'll see exactly how many copies of Horizon etc. sell on Steam over Epic.

Still, yes, I think that when we finally see Sony games day 1 on PC it'll be their launcher first, then Steam further down the line for secondary sales.

 

[Astray]

I'm not suggesting it's the same, but it's not outside the realms of possibility if Sony think that 30% gets it into the hands of at least 30% more PC gamers. They, you and I all know how tribal PC gamers can be about Steam. They'll see exactly how many copies of Horizon etc. sell on Steam over Epic.

Exactly.

I'm in the minority opinion that's ok with Epic's entrance and tactics used, it forced Steam to get friendlier to devs and players and it has created positive price pressure via free games and deeper discounts than Steam's, all I really need is for my game to play well at a good price, most of the bullshit like trading cards etc don't concern me at all. Plus, they are a safeguard against Steam changing in the future (lots of things can happen, Steam is a private business and Gabe or his family could sell for any reason to anyone, that's a bit scary to me tbh).

Still, yes, I think that when we finally see Sony games day 1 on PC it'll be their launcher first, then Steam further down the line for secondary sales.

I just think that Sony would not just invest this level of effort of adding trophy support etc. just to benefit Steam for no real return. There has to be a "play" here imo. I also think that Microsoft will stop being so friendly to Steam once they get their gaming business together again.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Exactly.

I'm in the minority opinion that's ok with Epic's entrance and tactics used, it forced Steam to get friendlier to devs and players and it has created positive price pressure via free games and deeper discounts than Steam's, all I really need is for my game to play well at a good price, most of the bullshit like trading cards etc don't concern me at all. Plus, they are a safeguard against Steam changing in the future (lots of things can happen, Steam is a private business and Gabe or his family could sell for any reason to anyone, that's a bit scary to me tbh).


I just think that Sony would not just invest this level of effort of adding trophy support etc. just to benefit Steam for no real return. There has to be a "play" here imo. I also think that Microsoft will stop being so friendly to Steam once they get their gaming business together again.

I think the play here is that Ghost of Sushi will probably be at least 50 euro and they need to put in some effort to get PC gamers to open their wallet- they're notorious for being cheap.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Using the Xbox app requires an Xbox account which is tied to your MS account. An Xbox account is not always needed though. PS gamers playing Sea of Thieves is an example. Same for Steam gamers.

I'm at odds with framing any of this in the same way as that ridiculous "trojan horse" thread. Folks need to stop obsessing over how MAUs are being counted. It is as if the console war nonsense is being replayed but now with MAUs. If Sony were to proclaim Steam gamers as PlayStation MAUs then that should be called out as bullshit because that is what it is. Platforms do not magically move to other platforms just because a game got ported there.

We had console warriors. What's next? MAU warriors?

Haha, MAU warriors would be a crazy bunch!

To be honest. I'm all for account logins. If I'm signed into sonys servers and my psn account and they give me cross save/progression and shareable dlc/cross buy they can count me as whatever number they want.

I'd buy ghost of tsushima on steam if I could pick up my save there and play the dlc. Someone said they don't quite have cross save yet though which is a bummer.

 

[Fahdis]

Sony could actually end up doing the PC launcher/storefront business right: Start as overlay, refine basic features and slowly build it up as an alternative to steam with User chat and cross achievements before taking their 1P titles exclusive.

Lmao "alternative to Steam", no one is going to buy Sony games or MS games on PC outside of Steam. Sony has the worst regional support of all Publishers. No thanks, but nice dream.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

People who buy €400 consoles aren't going to buy €2000 PCs. There will always be a market for consoles.

Are you sure about that, buddy?

 

[Fahdis]

Reading this thread made me realize how tribalistic or caged up console folks are. Let me iterate some ideas thrown in here that will fail and die:

- $10 to upgrade and enable cross buy
- A PS PC Storefront
- Cloud Saves behind a Paywall

Delusional to think Sony is going to give up their platform to chase 30% percent revenue share with Steam. Business doesnt work like that.

PlayStationion games dont sell much on PC. Helldivers is barely keeping up with Spiderman 2, and thats supposed to be the surprise hit games this year on both platforms.

Let us know when a beautiful game that leverages current technologies like Rachet and Clank manages to sell even half million copies on Steam, or Epic....

Hahahahaha. This has to be a joke or low bait trolling

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

Haha, MAU warriors would be a crazy bunch!

To be honest. I'm all for account logins. If I'm signed into sonys servers and my psn account and they give me cross save/progression and shareable dlc/cross buy they can count me as whatever number they want.

I'd buy ghost of tsushima on steam if I could pick up my save there and play the dlc. Someone said they don't quite have cross save yet though which is a bummer.

Yeah, no cross-save is a massive bummer. It stops me from double dipping on anything between PC and console

 

[CuteFaceJay]

Hope this runs well on the runs well on the Steam Deck.

 

[Guilty_AI]

i'll be waiting for the GOG release meanwhile.

 

[ArtHands]

I wouldn't worry about Steam Deck running this game well.

That said, I am glad that everyone is glad this game will support both PS Trophy AND Steam Achievements among many things, making this the best version of the game.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I still think achievements are retarded, but more power to the ones who like them i guess.

 

[Astray]

Lmao "alternative to Steam", no one is going to buy Sony games or MS games on PC outside of Steam. Sony has the worst regional support of all Publishers. No thanks, but nice dream.

They will once MS and Sony take their premium stuff off Steam.

Nothing lasts forever.

 

[Hudo]

I suggest you to go and use a PS3 years later. You'll get a gazillion firmware and game updates, sluggish store and super long loading times. That was crap. They improved a lot since then.


Please share some examples.



Yes, obviously the optimization depends on the game. But the average case on console with a non-crybaby user is good enough in 99% of the cases.


What did consoles "pcfied"?

And what do you mean by "not being as plug and play"? Games load way faster in PS5 than in PS2, even more than in PC. If there's some game update it downloads and installs automatically in the background, and you'll have it ready for the next time you play. That's all.

You even has the option to buy the game digitally, so you don't even spend time changing discs. You can even play games via streaming, skipping the downloading time and having to clean the fridge if your SDD is full.

I mean that consoles now have "Babbies first OS - Fisherprice Edition" with a lot of, in my opinion, unnecessary stuff (ads in the OS, apps to turn your console into a streaming box, account gating and management stuff, hilariously bad online stores in terms of basic user experience and discoverability, which all consoles struggle with) to con people into using PS+/Xbox Live/Nintendo Online (even though Nintendo are the least worst because they are "more behind"; a blessing in disguise, I guess). Why are there ads in the OS? Why do they bother you with account shit? What happened to just putting a game in and get playing asap? That's what I mean. That was the big one advantage of consoles.

Why do consoles games have "performance" and "quality" modes? What happened to making the game as good as it can be for that console? To me, console meant make one game for that hardware target as good as you can, as you, the developer, intended. If there are options now then I am better off on PC, where I have at least a lot more of them and also a lot more tools to deal with them.

Look, if that's all cool with you and you all like this stuff, then more power to you. You are clearly in the majority, going by the sales numbers.

 

[Fahdis]

They will once MS and Sony take their premium stuff off Steam.

Nothing lasts forever.

 

[ArtHands]

I personally don't care about achievements too, but I will buy this on Steam either way to add it to my backlog of 1000+ games.

 

[TehGoomba7s]

If I can use my PS account and earn trophies on PC I think I'd switch full time to PC.

 

[Guilty_AI]

They will once MS and Sony take their premium stuff off Steam.

Nothing lasts forever.

Selling outside of Steam was MS's plan A already you know. They failed, came crawling to steam and are now on plan B.

 

[Fredrik]

People who buy €400 consoles aren't going to buy €2000 PCs. There will always be a market for consoles.

I was that type of person for 30 years, then I bought a €2500 PC.

Today, 10 years later, I have 3 PCs and 2 Steam Deck.

I still have consoles though… At least for now. I’m trying to retire them.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

People who buy €400 consoles aren't going to buy €2000 PCs. There will always be a market for consoles.

Not sure how many there are of us but would imagine there are plenty of us who buy consoles and nice gaming PCs

Now give me all Sony day one on PC and maybe even I drop out of that crowd

 

[Gaiff]

People who buy €400 consoles aren't going to buy €2000 PCs. There will always be a market for consoles.

I’d wager most PC gamers have at least one console.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

There is such a disconnect between reality and game board nerds, like the size of an ocean. It's so strange seeing those fighting over the pettiest of things online while a very large majority of people who play games simply play them on their preferred devices.

 

[analog_future]

They will once MS and Sony take their premium stuff off Steam.

Nothing lasts forever.

No, they won't. This has been proven time and time again with EA Origin, Games for Windows Live, Epic Game Store, uPlay, etc.. etc..


All these publishers want to skirt around giving up that 30% cut to Valve, but they end up losing like 80+% of sales when they don't release on Steam.

 

[jroc74]

Using the Xbox app requires an Xbox account which is tied to your MS account. An Xbox account is not always needed though. PS gamers playing Sea of Thieves is an example. Same for Steam gamers.

I'm at odds with framing any of this in the same way as that ridiculous "trojan horse" thread. Folks need to stop obsessing over how MAUs are being counted. It is as if the console war nonsense is being replayed but now with MAUs. If Sony were to proclaim Steam gamers as PlayStation MAUs then that should be called out as bullshit because that is what it is. Platforms do not magically move to other platforms just because a game got ported there.

We had console warriors. What's next? MAU warriors?

Console wars, consoles wars never changes. Only the ammunition used.

 

[Fabieter]

I’d wager most PC gamers have at least one console.

Most of my friendlist on steam had one of the consoles as their main platform once but most switched completely so its a myth yea.

 

[Fredrik]

There is such a disconnect between reality and game board nerds, like the size of an ocean. It's so strange seeing those fighting over the pettiest of things online while a very large majority of people who play games simply play them on their preferred devices.

No surprise here, I have several hobbies and I don’t do anything I’m interested in like a normal person, having strange discussions about tiny details few people care about seems perfectly normal to me. Nerd for life!

 

[Fredrik]

Most of my friendlist on steam had one of the consoles as their main platform once but most switched completely so its a myth yea.

What about Switch? Out of all PC gamers I know almost all have a Switch, some have it for their kids but some for themselves. Xbox and Playstation basically don’t exist though. I know one who used to have a PS4 Pro and PSVR, but don’t use them anymore.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

No surprise here, I have several hobbies and I don’t do anything I’m interested in like a normal person, having strange discussions about tiny details few people care about seems perfectly normal to me. Nerd for life!

I guess in my generation (X) I'm more used to grown men talking about cars and tools when they geek out instead of computer parts.

 

[Fredrik]

I guess in my generation (X) I'm more used to grown men talking about cars and tools when they geek out instead of computer parts.

I’m sure some here do that too