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Drama Gavin Moore leaves SCEJ (Demon's Souls creative director)

ToTTenTranz

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Or maybe, just maybe... there's nothing going on?

My read on the whole take is Sony seems willing to bet hard on Astrobot as a real competitor to Mario on Sony platforms, so they're boosting the talent on Team Asobi.
To do so, they're sending the Japan Studio talent towards Team Asobi, but of course those not interested in working on Astrobot are looking elsewhere.


It's not like Japan Studio has been spearheading any games anyway. They've been mostly assisting in remasters and remakes, but not even as project heads.

Team Ico pretty much disbanded to become GenDesign and those are the heads for the Last Guardian and its prequels' remasters. Bloodborne is a From Software game, and Demon's Souls is mostly a Bluepoint game.
Most of the people who worked in the Gravity Rush series had already followed the same path as GenDesign and formed the Bokeh Studio recently.


Some people are trying too hard to make this into the sudden destruction of a studio (akin to EA blowing up Maxis after the Simcity failure), but it just seems like the organic evolution of resource distribution.


The only franchise apparently being orphaned is.. well, Knack.
I tried to like Knack. And Knack 2. But I couldn't..


The Last fucking Guardian.
That's a Team Ico title who's talent has been independent since 2011 when Ueda formed his own GenDesign studio. It's not a title headed by Japan Studio.
 
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Quazar77

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there's a saying, if you don't value your own developers, experienced and unique ones, it just leave a sour business taste to us gamers...
Alright, that’s my cue. I’ll see myself out.
 

Harry Tung

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Very sad to see him go but I wish him the best. Great director and creative spirit. It'll be a loss for Sony as far as I'm concerned. Puppeteer and Demon's Souls are among my favorite games for Playstation. I hope Sony consider a remaster of Puppeteer, it deserves a new audience.
 

Elog

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When it comes to talent it is as important to ensure that they can move on when they want to with great relationships intact as well as keep them long in the organization. Sony seems to succeed in both aspects.

Unless there is specific information about a conflict here the fact that a great developer wants to try his/her luck somewhere else is a good thing for creative organizations. All the good tweets between current and former Sony employees tells me that they have a strong environment for great minds with solid relationships. Looks really healthy to me. Longdi's implied msg in this thread is baseless without additional information.
 

Moonjt9

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This is one that gets me. This guy was so great. Just what the hell is going on over there in Japan?
 
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Hendrick's

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longdi longdi , I know you make it a big part of your day to look up ammo for console wars and think a lot about us every day. It's a sad existence.

It's a shame we can't discuss this in good faith given how it's a trolling from the op.
Nearly every thread on this forum is created as a troll for one side or the other.
 
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Foorbits

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Where's Jason Schreier with the exclusive scoop about wtf is going on
What do you think is going on? Sony doesn't see value in that studio and they'd know more than you or Jason Schreier.

All the people whining about the studio or the Vita store closing will be drown out the second Sony decides to announce something big. Sony knows this. They've never played the social media game like MS does.
 

jakinov

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jimbo with hurst are on fire! they are like in the cod with killing streak... no shows, no ps3 and vita shops, exclusives on pc and so on.. and developers leaving in troops.
Agreed. All they have now is the PS4 and PS5 store making them loads of profits, their new PC revenue (that's mostly profit) and all the developers that actually contribute towards a profit. These two idiots don't know how to run a company. Running a company is not about profits. It's about giving developers creative freedom, about ensuring that people can still buy games from 10 years ago and ensuring that you retain the developers despite their value to the company.
 

thebigmanjosh

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It’s becoming more and more clear that what the ps4 dreamteam sowed, Jimmy is reaping now. PS5 is awesome itself but I still want the dreamteam back, as I hate the direction Sony is going since quite some time.
I miss the dream team too but the decisions that have led to these departures have been in the works long before Jim.

The writing was on the wall when Sony decided to consolidate SCEA/SCEE/SCEJ into a global office in San Mateo. From what I know on the business side, this is not and has not been a totally smooth process, but the long term vision is that they will have more streamlined operations, resources, marketing, etc. for studios to take advantage of. Closing Japan Studios was a business move and shouldn’t be surprising to anyone who manages teams/budgets. When your console claims to fame over a decade are Bloodborne (outsourced), Demons souls remake (outsourced), shadow of the colossus remake (outsourced), Last Guardian (10+ year development), and *checks notes* Knack, there’s not much reason to keep the gang around aside from nostalgia.
 
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Foorbits

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Agreed. All they have now is the PS4 and PS5 store making them loads of profits, their new PC revenue (that's mostly profit) and all the developers that actually contribute towards a profit. These two idiots don't know how to run a company. Running a company is not about profits. It's about giving developers creative freedom, about ensuring that people can still buy games from 10 years ago and ensuring that you retain the developers despite their value to the company.
It's all about avoiding meltdowns on Twitter and making sure an indie dev wasting time on a dead platform doesn't sully your name.
 

Zato

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there's a saying, if you don't value your own developers, experienced and unique ones, it just leave a sour business taste to us gamers...

total wank, you really are a poor attempt at a concern troll.
 
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Aesius

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Agreed. All they have now is the PS4 and PS5 store making them loads of profits, their new PC revenue (that's mostly profit) and all the developers that actually contribute towards a profit. These two idiots don't know how to run a company. Running a company is not about profits. It's about giving developers creative freedom, about ensuring that people can still buy games from 10 years ago and ensuring that you retain the developers despite their value to the company.
Bruh.
 
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the issue imo is the direction the new SCE has chosen, every day and new development, just reinforce the issues
1 - I don't like all of Sony's decisions and how they handle certain aspects of their platform
2 - Overall I certainly prefer PlayStation over xbox or Switch--but I have more respect for Nintendo

So, I will say the same thing I say when people talk about Ms doing so great. These are the greasy bits, we care about the results, when MS starts to deliver great games and Sony stop delivering them we will talk again... Until then it's Nintendo/Sony rule.
 
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SlimySnake

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Love me a good thread backfire.

I am pretty concerned about the state of playstation, but this is a manufactured concern. Gavin Moore is no Neil Druckman or Cory Barlog. If Sony was restructuring ND and Neil decided to bail then maybe you create this thread and blame jimbo, and trust me I love myself a good Jimbo takedown, but this aint it chief.
 

SlimeGooGoo

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All the good tweets between current and former Sony employees tells me that they have a strong environment for great minds with solid relationships. Looks really healthy to me
Honestly though, you didn't expect them to kill their careers by complaining publicly on social media about the situation right? Even if something bad *had* happened, their response would be the same. Not saying this is the case though.

On the other hand, is this some sort of April fools joke?


 

THEAP99

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Honestly though, you didn't expect them to kill their careers by complaining publicly on social media about the situation right? Even if something bad *had* happened, their response would be the same. Not saying this is the case though.

On the other hand, is this some sort of April fools joke?


Of course it's an april fool's joke lmao. Nothing to worry about
 

Neofire

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Not in the slightest to me. Then again, I’m not a shareholder. I just play games
If tone deaf was a person this would be it.....


People kill me like all there is to a game to be concerned is the developers making it and the person playing it.

There are level's to the entire process and the interaction between boss and employee, in the regards to the developers, is an important part of if said game will be created and be any good.

Not just "I play games" and fuck everyone and everything else. Not need to be so insensitive do why the individual left.
 
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Quazar77

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Guys, it was a joke. Fuck Jason Schreier lmao
You can’t say this stuff here! There’s... sensitive people in here

If tone deaf was a person this would be it.....


People kill me like all there is to a game to be concerned is the developers making it and the person playing it.

There are level's to the entire process and the interaction between boss and employee, in the regards to the developers, is an important part of if said game will be created and be any good.

Not just "I play games" and fuck everyone and everything else. Not need to be so insensitive do why the individual left.
Man... you must be getting suicidal when an employee where you work leaves or get fired 😳

‘’Time to seek out new and exciting opportunities’’.
Guy looks totally crushed, you are right...
 

SlimeGooGoo

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Of course it's an april fool's joke lmao. Nothing to worry about
Yeah, there's really no reason for them to be joking about quitting a company.

Just found it curious that many were tweeting goodbyes at the same time, but I suppose it's because yesterday was the last day of their contracts.
 

Elysion

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It seems Sony‘s plan to turn Japan Studio into an AAA studio on par with its western teams (or other Japanese developers like Capcom or SE) failed. Since they have left the handheld market, they don‘t really need the kind of small-scale games that their Japanese division used to make anymore, and since they seem unable to produce AAA games in a reasonable timeframe, I can see why Sony would pull the plug. It‘s a shame of course, and I wonder why they were unable to improve their AAA output, since Capcom, SE and Nintendo show that Japanese developers can be just as good as western ones in the AAA space.
 

longdi

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The last comment is so spot on and highlights the issue since jimbo took over. As i said, SCE communication dropped off the rocks after jimbo first took over their global marketing post.

What is jimbo twitter handle? None.
 
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longdi

Ni hao ma, fellow kids?
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That picture looks like an inside joke from the studio that is being purposely misinterpreted as something else in this thread.

The latest tweets from Gavin express nothing but kind words for the team, the studio, for Sony and for their executives:



These 2 tweets specifically shout out to Japan Studios and Shu...only these 2 parties

Add that burning house picture....it is hard not to speculate..
 

BusierDonkey

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Maybe Phil can get all these guys set up with a new studio/studios of their own. It would be a great opportunity to get a foothold in Japan.
 
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THEAP99

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These 2 tweets specifically shout out to Japan Studios and Shu...only these 2 parties

Add that burning house picture....it is hard not to speculate..
Your thread and speculation is disingenuous as fuck
 
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Clear

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These 2 tweets specifically shout out to Japan Studios and Shu...only these 2 parties

Add that burning house picture....it is hard not to speculate..

Actual development on Demon's Souls PS5 was handled by Bluepoint in the US, why would they need a Japan-based producer and a team of any size also working on it? Take away that, and what was the last Japan Studio title released? Deracine maybe? Another title developed primarily out of house at FROM.

Seems to me that this was just another Liverpool Studio situation, where a big expensive-to-operate site simply isn't pulling its weight in terms of internally developed output. Also when you have staff members that have been around as long as these guys have, they are likely paid extremely well, -far higher than more recent starters.

This is all just corporate game-dev in a nutshell; there's always an assumption that you're protected by the size of the organization but inevitably at some point in time the eye of Sauron is going to spot you, and if you are aren't cost effective... your neck is on the block.
 

yurinka

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meanwhile jade raymond is given a deal to make games for SCE...i wonder is this a power struggle between herman and SCEJ?

kinda worrying now ain't it?
No, miss Phil Spencer.

Jade Raymond isn't forking for SCE, she founded her own independent studio, which isn't part Sony. What she said is that they have a deal with Sony for their first game (probably a timed console exclusive, as usual with indies).

Herman is in charge of the internal Sony games, so a studio under him can't have a power struggle with him. Specially a studio who hasn't released a big selling games in decades, reason of why they restructured it downsize it. Yoshida is in charge of the indie games, so Yoshida is who will work with Raymond, not Herman.

as of current, jade is unproven and long outta the game. will kojima next game be even on ps5?
Jade was producer on the first AC games, Watchdogs or Splinter Cell Blacklist, and was the founder and boss of the 2nd biggest Ubisoft studio, that while she was there worked on The Division, Rainbow Six Siege, some Far Cry and AC games, etc. Recently she created a studio for EA that made Star Wars Squadrons and did work on Battlefront 2. She got hired by Google as VP to handle their games but they did shut it up before they published their first internal game.

She is more than proven to sign a (timed console?) exclusive for Sony with her next studio, both as 3rd or 2nd party.
 
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longdi

Ni hao ma, fellow kids?
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Actual development on Demon's Souls PS5 was handled by Bluepoint in the US, why would they need a Japan-based producer and a team of any size also working on it? Take away that, and what was the last Japan Studio title released? Deracine maybe? Another title developed primarily out of house at FROM.

Seems to me that this was just another Liverpool Studio situation, where a big expensive-to-operate site simply isn't pulling its weight in terms of internally developed output. Also when you have staff members that have been around as long as these guys have, they are likely paid extremely well, -far higher than more recent starters.

This is all just corporate game-dev in a nutshell; there's always an assumption that you're protected by the size of the organization but inevitably at some point in time the eye of Sauron is going to spot you, and if you are aren't cost effective... your neck is on the block.

Nah there have been recent news about power balance being moved to SCEE, about lack of fundings, about restrictions on type of games expectations...


 
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Dabaus

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Whats crazy about the closure of Studio Japan is that Sony is making more money than ever. I get that their recent out put has been lacking but with back drop of Micrisft gobbling everything up and expanding their first party, along with nintendo dominating in Japan, the closure seems tonedeaf. I think with both Jim Ryan and Hulst being from Europe we are going to see them focus on European studios like the Jade Raymond studio, but Japanese games are playstations foundation, not European devs. Its not like they have to pick one or the other either, they could have a first party AAA Jrpg or action Rpg studio and expand into Europe.
 
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Clear

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Whats crazy about the closure of Studio Japan is that Sony is making more money than ever. I get that their recent out put has been lacking but with back drop of Micrisft gobbling everything up and expanding their first party, along with nintendo dominating in Japan, the closure seems tonedeaf. I think with both Jim Ryan and Hulst being from Europe we are going to see them focus on European studios like the Jade Raymond studio, but Japanese games are playstations foundation, not European devs. Its not like they have to pick one or the other either, they could have a first party AAA Jrpg or action Rpg studio and expand into Europe.

It doesn't work that way! Corporate logic is that if profits are at an all-time high you redouble your efforts at improving productivity and eliminating inefficiencies. Because those are the processes that lead to increased profitability.
 
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