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News Contradictory reports surface on whether Demon's Souls has or doesn't have RayTracing

El Pistolero

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People who thought that RT would be a staple of rendering this generation are in for a rude awakening: It is too taxing an effect for either console, so think of them as platforms to enable developers to toy with the method (localized and specific use; hybrid approach; a bit more extensive utilization in simple and less demanding titles...) and prepare for the PS6 and Xbox Series-something. Raytracing is the future, no doubt; we just are not there yet.
Actually, other global illumination approaches such as the one supported by UE5 Lumen are much, much better in terms of quality/cost.
 
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El Pistolero

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So the devs lied basically, ouch.

Why would a developer lie when there are people whose job is to literally dissect your work upon release? What do you stand to gain by doing so, knowing that, you know, your product will eventually come out and face analysis and scrutiny? Why don’t some of you use basic common sense before typing absurdly idiotic stuff?
 
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Yoboman

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By the two quotes in OP and what has been said before I get the feeling that the creative director doesn’t know what ray tracing is.

When the game was revealed it was “we have ray traced shadows” now its “we have light in real-time thanks to ray tracing” and then “we have no ray tracing”.

what a mess.
To be fair, it seems like he did about 20 interviews on the same day. I'm pretty sure the creative director knows what ray tracing is
 

TonyK

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Great! Invest in something graphically noticeable and not in damn ubersharpened reflections that look more unrealistic than traditional fake methods.

The actual RT reflections are like the beginning of shaders. Do you remember the Ps3 era when all surfaces shined like plastic? Now they look fake AF. Same will occur when in the future we look actual pristine unrealistic reflections in any type of surface.

In 7 years we will look Spiderman and we will laugh that cars metal reflect as mirrors.
 
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FunkMiller

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Has this been cleared up yet?

No RT? Or bad translation of one interview?

I don’t really care if it has it or not, but given how febrile things are around here, it probably needs to be cleared up fast.
 

Yoboman

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People who thought that RT would be a staple of rendering this generation are in for a rude awakening: It is too taxing an effect for either console, so think of them as platforms to enable developers to toy with the method (localized and specific use; hybrid approach; a bit more extensive utilization in simple and less demanding titles...) and prepare for the PS6 and Xbox Series-something. Raytracing is the future, no doubt; we just are not there yet.
Actually, other global illumination approaches such as the one supported by UE5 Lumen are much, much better in terms of quality/cost.
Ray tracing is here to stay

Uses of it will just get smarter and more efficient, especially as its built for the ground up and not bolted on from games that started development 2-3 years ago.
 

psorcerer

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If you cannot see the graphic feature and need to ask about whether it's there - this feature is a PR bullshit.
 

Tomeru

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Since the moment consoles became about tech more than ganes, it all went down to shit. I mean, this game will be amazing regardless.

But noooo, what about the tech? Guve me info about the tech! I NEED to know or I cant play this!

Fucking hell... Devs should shut up already.
 
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Mister Wolf

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They weren't going to use it for lighting anyway. If you aren't using it for lighting then you're wasting it.
 

Warnen

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And nothing of value was lost. Ray tracing might be the lastest buzz word but we are still a generation or 2 before tech is ready to use it without a significant cost. At least high fps and res have an instant effect on improving a game.

Use it if you must, most people wont be able to tell good fake lighting to selective ray tracing.
 
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El Pistolero

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Ray tracing is here to stay

Uses of it will just get smarter and more efficient, especially as its built for the ground up and not bolted on from games that started development 2-3 years ago.

Not contradicting my statement. Though one should point out that later games will also take up more resources as the time goes by to produce traditional “rasterization” results, so the trade-off, even later during the gen, will be just as relevant.

And nothing of value was lost. Ray tracing might be the lastest buzz word but we are still a generation or 2 before tech is ready to use it without a significant cost. At least high fps and res have an instant effect on improving a game.

Use it if you must, most people wont be able to tell good fake lighting to selective ray tracing.

Agreed for once.
If you cannot see the graphic feature and need to ask about whether it's there - this feature is a PR bullshit.

A fully raytraced rendered would look bonkers, but that is a long way off. Hopefully by the time next consoles hit the market.
 
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Yoboman

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Not contradicting my statement. Though one should point out that later games will also take up more resources as the time goes by to produce traditional “rasterization” results, so the trade-off, even later during the gen, will be just as relevant.



Agreed for once.
Yeah, I guess the roof is kind of infinite on ray tracing if devs want it to be

But I think we will get more for less cost as time goes on. Since ray tracing became the hot new product we've even started to get software based ray tracing on current gen consoles. I think we will get some very surprising and advanced results from ray tracing ad the gen moves on and there is a real tech race from developers occuring, even if right now it just seems like more accurate reflections
 

Starstruck

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As long as is so spectacular I really don’t care if rt is implemented or not. Also the fact that nobody can tell is significant
 

eyesabitdull

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I never cared about RT.

I still dont.

Games have done pretty well without it, and I'm fine if they dont have it.

But I definitely welcome it if it is ever implemented, I'm just not obsessed over the need to have it.
 
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tryDEATH

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I am surprised that is doesn't have RT considering the amount people on here were pushing it that it does, without any legitimate proof. The game clearly looks great, it's the unnecessary shiting on on top of that without any proof where many felt the need to belittle the Xbox to feel better by claiming that Xbox didn't have any RT on any of launch titles and that it was due to their inferior development tools/API's.

I forgot how many times those same people have now been proven wrong and ended up with egg on their face. It literally is a laundry list of things that all have ended up firing back in their face after they tried clowning Xbox. The most hilarious thing though is that they keep on pushing unverified information as legitimate info on here. Just in the last 24-48 hours we had back compatibility debacle, lack of full RDNA2 on PS5, and now no RT in DS.
 
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RoboFu

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Definitely not using raytraced shadows. But UE5 showed you can make very good looking games without it.
 
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Aion002

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SP - BR



It's perfect:

 

INCUBASE

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Who gives a shit? Only decent looking next gen games ive seem gameplay of so far, and I have 0 interest in buying it
 
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Montauk

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People are really (not surprising) overstating the long-term significance of the graphical performance of very early gen (launch!) titles generally.

I don't know why because we've all sat through multiple generations and seen how devs continually get more out of the same hardware.

Just because this game or others don't have, for instance, super-cutting edge graphics AND RT does not tell you enough to make such grand conclusions about the whole gen. Ways will be found to optimise even better graphics with a lower hit to the CPU/GPU budget, which obviously allow for better graphics with RT included.

This is a launch game, come on.
 
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Daymos

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I have to be honest here, if it had full ray tracing and was 4k/60fps I still wouldn't buy it. Dark souls was better than demons souls and now there's bloodborne and dark souls3.. it's not worth $570 (or $470 I suppose) to play a definitive edition of a ps3 game.
 

BlackTron

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People are really (not surprising) overstating the long-term significance of the graphical performance of very early gen (launch!) titles generally.

I don't know why because we've all sat through multiple generations and seen how devs continually get more out of the same hardware.

Just because this game or others don't have, for instance, super-cutting edge graphics AND RT does not tell you enough to make such grand conclusions about the whole gen. Ways will be found to optimise even better graphics with a lower hit to the CPU/GPU budget, which obviously allow for better graphics with RT included.

This is a launch game, come on.

Yes and no. New systems today are not nearly as radically different as they used to be. This is not like SNES and Genesis being very different, being replaced by N64 and PSX which were not only very different from 16 bit gen, but from each other as well. Consoles were such a mixed bag of different new tech and architectures.

Now everything is becoming homogenized into being very similar stuff. PS5 and XSX have the same architecture as their predecessors. They're both like PCs, one with a better SSD and the other with better CPU. Of course it's not entirely that simple, but it's a lot more simple than it used to be to grapple with a new hardware. PS4 games are backwards compatible out of the box, with no dedicated hardware or emulation. That should be very telling. Developer ingenuity and voodoo won't go as far as it did towards the end of N64, and I would expect their "full potential" to be unlocked far, far faster.

Dreamcast pretty much strutted its full potential as soon as it came out. Most likely because the heavy lifting had already been done making arcade games on similar hardware. Everyone already knows how to make a PS4 game, and PS5 is just a far beefier PS4 with an epic SSD. Yeah games will get better, but I don't think there will be so many coding secrets and efficiencies to figure out as in the past.
 
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This shit is getting ridiculous

I'll just wait for DF or official confirmation. Not going to give these no name sites any ounce of consideration
 

Yoboman

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Yes and no. New systems today are not nearly as radically different as they used to be. This is not like SNES and Genesis being very different, being replaced by N64 and PSX which were not only very different from 16 bit gen, but from each other as well. Consoles were such a mixed bag of different new tech and architectures.

Now everything is becoming homogenized into being very similar stuff. PS5 and XSX have the same architecture as their predecessors. They're both like PCs, one with a better SSD and the other with better CPU. Of course it's not entirely that simple, but it's a lot more simple than it used to be to grapple with a new hardware. PS4 games are backwards compatible out of the box, with no dedicated hardware or emulation. That should be very telling. Developer ingenuity and voodoo won't go as far as it did towards the end of N64, and I would expect their "full potential" to be unlocked far, far faster.

Dreamcast pretty much strutted its full potential as soon as it came out. Most likely because the heavy lifting had already been done making arcade games on similar hardware. Everyone already knows how to make a PS4 game, and PS5 is just a far beefier PS4 with an epic SSD. Yeah games will get better, but I don't think there will be so many coding secrets and efficiencies to figure out as in the past.
Yes but new factors will take place instead. Namely that games take much longer to make, that middleware solutions like UE5 that small and medium size devs will use wont be available for a few years and that really there are only a handful of devs with the capabilities to be the cream of the crop graphically.

Game development is also going to shift into new development pipelines thanks to the SSD, so there will definitely be tricks for devs to learn and grow from. As we've already seen from UE5 tech
 

Montauk

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So we don't like Ray Tracing now?

That's how it seems to work around here.

Look, fanboys, two (or more) things can be true at the same time: this game can both look stunning despite not having RT AND would clearly be visually improved further by RT AND it also not be a big deal and something worth pulling your hair out over.

All three of those things are true! You don't need to suddenly turn on a dime so fast that the dime glows red-hot and shoots off the floor just because you've come to psychologically self-identify with this bit of consumer electronics and feel the need to contort yourself mentally every time something pops up that might (in your mind) reflect negatively on it.

Come on, grow. Mature. You don't need to be like this. The game looks incredible.
 
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Montauk

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If this is true then it makes perfect sense and it demonstrates this particular game not having RT doesn't tell you much.
 
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smorgasbird

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Technically they could trace a single ray somewhere and not affect the output fragment. Voila, ray tracing.

Seriously though, we should not use the term "ray tracing" and only refer to specific features, i.e. "ray traced GI" or "ray traced reflections."

Nobody says "does this game use screen space?"
 
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Rippa

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I still don’t really understand Ray-tracing and it’s impact to games whether it’s good or bad. Just the simple reflection point. So I guess I don’t mind it not being in Demon’s Souls. Maybe they’ll patch it in down the line sometime.

The game looks unbelievable especially in performance “day-time soap opera” mode as it is. The truest next gen looking game out of all that would be available at launch.

I’m eager to see the “bells and whistles” mode and what graphical improvements it provides to this already stellar looking game.
 

THEAP99

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There are still plenty of other first party games supporting ray tracing at least
 
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GymWolf

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That's how it seems to work around here.

Look, fanboys, two (or more) things can be true at the same time: this game can both look stunning despite not having RT AND would clearly be visually improved further by RT AND it also not be a big deal and something worth pulling your hair out over.

All three of those things are true! You don't need to suddenly turn on a dime so fast that the dime glows red-hot and shoots off the floor just because you've come to psychologically self-identify with this bit of consumer electronics and feel the need to contort yourself mentally every time something pops up that might (in your mind) reflect negatively on it.

Come on, grow. Mature. You don't need to be like this. The game looks incredible.
Just for the record, a lot of people in here didn't cared about rtx well before demons souls remake was even a thing, we are not all console warriors just because we don't give 2 shits about rtx.
I have a rtx capable gpu and eager to buy a 3080\6800xt, still don't care about rtx at all, it's not a fox and the grape situation for everyone.

Rtx are nice but a lot of us survive mighty fine even without it.
 
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Pedro Motta

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So people here believe that a game that runs at dynamic 4K 60 fps, the 4K 30 fps mode doesn't have RT enabled? What would hit the performance that much?
 
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Gamerguy84

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Don't understand the controversy or even how its a negative. Every computer or console has finite power.

The game looks stunningly amazing.
 
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Neo Blaster

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I don't understand all the fuss, does the game suddenly become ugly if it's not using RT? All I can see when I watch those gameplay demos is it's amazing image quality.
 
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01011001

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I don't understand all the fuss, does the game suddenly become ugly if it's not using RT? All I can see when I watch those gameplay demos is it's amazing image quality.

the fuss is about lying to your customers.
if this turns out to be true of course
 
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The good thing about this gen, is that it's becoming pretty clear how Ray Tracing and 4K is super overrated. Tons of people believing in both, when it's not even being applied. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Overrated for fanboys suddenly insecure maybe. Have a feeling if it was the ps5 doing rt/4k and the Xbox couldn't it would suddenly be something we shouldn't overlook.
 

Montauk

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As has been said elsewhere there are multiple RT applications.



The game could be using one and not the other. Everyone thinks of reflections and shadows.
 
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FrankWza

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So people here believe that a game that runs at dynamic 4K 60 fps, the 4K 30 fps mode doesn't have RT enabled? What would hit the performance that much?

this is what I’m trying to understand. The trailer from the other day looks ridiculous with dynamic res. What are they going to do besides raytracing tomake the cinematic that much better? Moore said “It means we can up the resolution of every single tiny pebble in the game, right? The tessellation is incredible and it's all real-time, and it all casts real-time shadows. It's so immersive.