• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

News Contradictory reports surface on whether Demon's Souls has or doesn't have RayTracing

DonJorginho

Member
Jan 22, 2020
2,895
7,063
655
Kanye's Kitchen
LEVEL UP recently had the opportunity to interview Gavin Moore, Creative Director of Demon's Souls and member of SIE Japan Studio, about various elements of the game. Of course, one of the topics that were touched on was the graphic section.

When questioning Gavin about the implementation of ray tracing in Demon's Souls , the creative made it clear that, although the opposite was announced at the beginning , it is an element absent from the exclusive for PlayStation 5.

“We don't actually implement raytracing in Demon's Souls . It's not because we couldn't or because the PlayStation 5 couldn't do it, it's fully capable of doing it, "said Moore.

Now the question is, if the PlayStation 5 can be raytraced and it could have been implemented in Demon's Souls , why leave it out? As explained by Moore, it was a decision they made since it was something that was outside their initial ideal of the project. Also, there is a certain cost to implement it and they preferred to prioritize other elements.

“It's like any other graphical improvement, there is a cost [to implement raytracing]. If we had implemented ray tracing in the game, that would mean that we would have had to leave something out. There is a limited time in game development.

When we started development we didn't know there would be ray tracing in the game, so it wasn't in our original vision. What we wanted to focus on was the settings and the look of the characters. Everything is lighting in real time with shadows in real time ”, were the words of Moore.



My take on this news? I think it's a bit of a bummer that this already stunning game can't take full advantage with Raytracing as the examples in which it would shine are bountiful.

However the overall visual fidelity of this title is something of a real premium quality and I'm still stunned by how Bluepoint have made such a stunning game, I can't wait till their next project where they are more used to the technology and can take further advantage of the PS5!


EDIT:

Well this fiasco gets more confusing by the second! Another article from the day before the original article which describes no Raytracing in Demon's Souls PS5, confirms that Raytracing in some form is in the game?

Gavin Moore (Creative Director)

Demon’s Souls for PlayStation 3 is an incredibly dark game. What we have done is, after evaluating the power of the PlayStation 5, we realized that we no longer had to enable or disable any light source, but we have been able to include light in real time thanks to ray tracing. So every aspect of the game lighting is in real time. It is dynamic. We have used the lighting as a way to guide the player through the levels, as little hints of where to go.

Credit to Dodkrake Dodkrake for the translation and THEAP99 THEAP99 for finding and linking this article which I'll now link below for new readers!


 
Last edited:

Traxtech

Member
May 22, 2016
603
346
370
Ray tracing is overrated. Most people associate it with reflections yet metro exodus is easily the best looking game with RT and it's focused on GI and lighting/shadows as a whole.

Give it a few years and we'll see some really good results now that the consoles can support it too, I see PC shining the most
 
Last edited:

MrFunSocks

Banned
Jul 9, 2020
3,018
5,439
645
“It's not because we couldn't or because the PlayStation 5 couldn't do it, it's fully capable of doing it, "said Moore.

Lol what a stupid thing to say. Of course it can do ray tracing. Your game can’t do it though, because the console doesn’t have enough power to do it along with whatever else you wanted to do.

“Big oof” as I believe a fair few people had been touting it as an example of the ps5 and its “more advanced APIs” and power.
 

THEAP99

reposts tweets from kids about console wars
Mar 16, 2020
3,447
8,964
660
LEVEL UP recently had the opportunity to interview Gavin Moore, Creative Director of Demon's Souls and member of SIE Japan Studio, about various elements of the game. Of course, one of the topics that were touched on was the graphic section.

When questioning Gavin about the implementation of ray tracing in Demon's Souls , the creative made it clear that, although the opposite was announced at the beginning , it is an element absent from the exclusive for PlayStation 5.

“We don't actually implement raytracing in Demon's Souls . It's not because we couldn't or because the PlayStation 5 couldn't do it, it's fully capable of doing it, "said Moore.

Now the question is, if the PlayStation 5 can be raytraced and it could have been implemented in Demon's Souls , why leave it out? As explained by Moore, it was a decision they made since it was something that was outside their initial ideal of the project. Also, there is a certain cost to implement it and they preferred to prioritize other elements.

“It's like any other graphical improvement, there is a cost [to implement raytracing]. If we had implemented ray tracing in the game, that would mean that we would have had to leave something out. There is a limited time in game development.

When we started development we didn't know there would be ray tracing in the game, so it wasn't in our original vision. What we wanted to focus on was the settings and the look of the characters. Everything is lighting in real time with shadows in real time ”, were the words of Moore.



My take on this news? I think it's a bit of a bummer that this already stunning game can't take full advantage with Raytracing as the examples in which it would shine are bountiful.

However the overall visual fidelity of this title is something of a real premium quality and I'm still stunned by how Bluepoint have made such a stunning game, I can't wait till their next project where they are more used to the technology and can take further advantage of the PS5!
Lol I literally just asked about this on twitter. Because the original PlayStation blog post said it does indeed have ray tracing.


Anyways Demon's souls looks great as it is, no biggy
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
Jul 17, 2004
5,952
2,763
1,695
Good hopefully this gets people off this ray tracing or bust kick. Just not worth the cost better frame rate and other effects are a better choice.
 
Oct 26, 2018
16,168
22,396
795
Nice one. Even still says Demon's Souls has RT on Sony's web site. Nice last minute communication two weeks from launch.


Demon’s Souls from Japan Studio and Bluepoint Games
From Japan Studio and Bluepoint Games comes a remake of the PlayStation classic, Demon’s Souls. In addition to beautiful shadow effects and ray tracing, players can choose between two graphics modes while playing: one focused on fidelity, and one focused on frame rate.
 

vpance

Member
Jun 20, 2005
8,736
2,949
1,650
What sort of examples would it shine in OP?

It's one of the darkest games made, the environments are very static, with few light sources and it's a medieval setting. I don't think it'd be contributing much and would be a waste of GPU time.
 

DonJorginho

Member
Jan 22, 2020
2,895
7,063
655
Kanye's Kitchen
What sort of examples would it shine in OP?

It's one of the darkest games made, the environments are very static, with few light sources and it's a medieval setting. I don't think it'd be contributing much and would be a waste of GPU time.
It's pretty obvious that the lighting is being brightened in some areas, I was thinking more real time reflections on armour, seeing the real time effects of a flame bouncing off your helmets reflection for example, real time reflections on a puddle as lighting crackles overhead.

More little touches for a nice photo in photomode for sure but could've been nice to see them, it isn't a need for me though and I'm happy either way as the game looks amazing and SSR should be able to do most things just fine.
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
Jul 9, 2020
3,018
5,439
645
in my opinion they should just focus on one mode and push the graphical detail ...............this is ps5 not the ps4pro
Nah I hope every game going forward has 2 modes - the developers main vision for the game on current consoles, and then a “next gen” mode that assumes backwards compatibility with more powerful hardware. Unlocked frame rate with a higher cap, and dynamic resolution with a higher cap. Microsoft knocked it out of the park by doing this last gen with some of their first party games, they were thinking ahead.
 

mansoor1980

Member
Oct 12, 2020
973
1,147
335
Nah I hope every game going forward has 2 modes - the developers main vision for the game on current consoles, and then a “next gen” mode that assumes backwards compatibility with more powerful hardware. Unlocked frame rate with a higher cap, and dynamic resolution with a higher cap. Microsoft knocked it out of the park by doing this last gen with some of their first party games, they were thinking ahead.
respect ur opinion but i personally dont agree with the 2 modes thing ..........yeah i am weird
 

Redlight

Member
Feb 5, 2014
1,227
2,526
655
Good hopefully this gets people off this ray tracing or bust kick. Just not worth the cost better frame rate and other effects are a better choice.
I think it's a game-by-game thing. The effect makes a huge difference in Watch Dogs. The city environment with all the glass, lights etc really benefits from Ray Tracing.


 

MrFunSocks

Banned
Jul 9, 2020
3,018
5,439
645
I think it's a game-by-game thing. The effect makes a huge difference in Watch Dogs. The city environment with all the glass, lights etc really benefits from Ray Tracing.


Exactly. Ray tracing has the ability to actually dramatically change how games are played. Think about something like rainbow six siege - with ray traced reflections and lighting you could see a reflection off a surface that another player is hiding around a corner off screen, whereas with current lighting and reflections that’s not possible. It adds a whole new dynamic to gameplay because the engine isn’t limited to what is directly on screen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrMUR_96

Ataraxia

Member
Jun 14, 2013
744
160
520
How is it the floor? It's an entry to next-gen... People here love to overreact, jesus christ.

Well if it doesn't implement ray-tracing which is probably the biggest sell for next-gen after faster SDD loading then it's fair to say that games are only going to get better.
 

DonJorginho

Member
Jan 22, 2020
2,895
7,063
655
Kanye's Kitchen
In this article the director says there's ray tracing apparently

Doesn't sound like Raytracing to me, no direct mention of Raytracing in article either.

When it comes to performance, we've added two modes. On the one hand, one that is native 4K at 30 FPS , a mode that is impressive to the eye: all active, lights for all ties, shadows, tessellation ... it is magnificent. On the other hand, what we have called the performance mode, which is dynamic 4K at 60 FPS . This is the one that we think is aimed at the majority of players because it is more fluid; you have a better response in control. Now the controller response actually gives you a bit of an advantage over the game over the original PlayStation 3 version.
 
Oct 26, 2018
16,168
22,396
795
Doesn't sound like Raytracing to me, no direct mention of Raytracing in article either.

When it comes to performance, we've added two modes. On the one hand, one that is native 4K at 30 FPS , a mode that is impressive to the eye: all active, lights for all ties, shadows, tessellation ... it is magnificent. On the other hand, what we have called the performance mode, which is dynamic 4K at 60 FPS . This is the one that we think is aimed at the majority of players because it is more fluid; you have a better response in control. Now the controller response actually gives you a bit of an advantage over the game over the original PlayStation 3 version.
He says this in that article. Google translated from Spanish.

Another word we've heard hundreds of times is ray tracing . Are we going to notice it so much? Lighting seems a key element in Demons Souls .
Indeed, one of the novelties is ray tracing, now you will see more realistically when lightning hits a tree and sets it on fire. That is brand new and never existed in the original. Now we can do it because we have all that power with PS5. It's great.

Demons Souls for PlayStation 3 is an incredibly dark game. What we have done is, after evaluating the power of the PlayStation 5, we realize that we no longer had to activate or deactivate any light source, but we have been able to include light in real time thanks to ray tracing. So every aspect of the game lighting is in real time. It is dynamic. We have used the lighting as a way to guide the player through the levels, as little hints of where to go.
 
Last edited:

DonJorginho

Member
Jan 22, 2020
2,895
7,063
655
Kanye's Kitchen
He says this in that article. Google translated from Spanish.

Another word we've heard hundreds of times is ray tracing . Are we going to notice it so much? Lighting seems a key element in Demons Souls .
Indeed, one of the novelties is ray tracing, now you will see more realistically when lightning hits a tree and sets it on fire. That is brand new and never existed in the original. Now we can do it because we have all that power with PS5. It's great.

Demons Souls for PlayStation 3 is an incredibly dark game. What we have done is, after evaluating the power of the PlayStation 5, we realize that we no longer had to activate or deactivate any light source, but we have been able to include light in real time thanks to ray tracing. So every aspect of the game lighting is in real time. It is dynamic. We have used the lighting as a way to guide the player through the levels, as little hints of where to go.
Well shit the bed, fuck knows what is going on with this fiasco 😂😂
 

Dodkrake

Member
Feb 28, 2020
1,406
6,137
525
Re-post from the next gen thread

While I'm not spanish, my spanish chops are ok. Happy to translate what the interviews say, with proper context. First, the one that says Demon Souls has no Ray Tracing


Original

Al cuestionar a Gavin sobre la implementación del trazado de rayos en Demon’s Souls, el creativo dejó claro que, aunque al inicio se anunció lo contrario, es un elemento ausente del exclusivo para PlayStation 5.

“De hecho no implementamos raytracing en Demon's Souls. No es porque no pudiéramos o porque el PlayStation 5 no pudiera hacerlo, ya que es completamente capaz de hacerlo”, mencionó Moore.

Translation

While questioning Gaving about the implementation of Ray Tracing in Demon Souls, the creative (director) made it clear that, while he had announced otherwise (refering to interview on the 1st of October), this is an element that is absent from the Playstation 5 exclusive.

"In fact we did not implement ray tracing in Demon's Souls. It's not that we couldn't because the Playstation 5 can't do it, as it is capable of doing so" mencioned Moore.

This does lead to believe that there is no Ray Tracing on the game, contradicting previous statements and Sony themselves.Now, the interesting bit as that another "interview" from the day before completely contradicts this.


Original

Demon’s Souls para PlayStation 3 es un juego increíblemente oscuro. Lo que hemos hecho es, tras evaluar la potencia de PlayStation 5, darnos cuenta de que ya no teníamos que activar o desactivar ninguna fuente de luz, sino que hemos podido incluir luz en tiempo real gracias al ray tracing. Así que cada aspecto de la iluminación del juego es en tiempo real. Es dinámica. Hemos usado la iluminación como una forma de guiar al jugador a través de los niveles, como pequeños indicios de adónde ir.

Translation

Demon’s Souls for PlayStation 3 is an incredibly dark game. What we have done is, after evaluating the power of the PlayStation 5, we realized that we no longer had to enable or disable any light source, but we have been able to include light in real time thanks to ray tracing. So every aspect of the game lighting is in real time. It is dynamic. We have used the lighting as a way to guide the player through the levels, as little hints of where to go.

This one shows that there is Ray Traced global illumination, from my understanding of what he said.
 
Oct 26, 2018
16,168
22,396
795
Well shit the bed, fuck knows what is going on with this fiasco 😂😂
Considering all the last minute blips popping up, Gavin Moore might have had an internal PR date between honestly answering questions vs. dishonestly BSing.

Who knows.

Unless these two articles are incorrectly being translated by people (and Google translator is also wrong), this guy has said two completely different things 24 hours apart.
 
Last edited: