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News Contradictory reports surface on whether Demon's Souls has or doesn't have RayTracing

Kerotan

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Ray tracing is overrated. Most people associate it with reflections yet metro exodus is easily the best looking game with RT and it's focused on GI and lighting/shadows as a whole.

Give it a few years and we'll see some really good results now that the consoles can support it too, I see PC shining the most
Sounds like it's not worth the trade off.
 

Dodkrake

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Considering all the last minute blips popping up, Gavin Moore might have had an internal PR date between honestly answering questions vs. dishonestly BSing.

Who knows.

Unless these two articles are incorrectly being translated by people (and Google translator is also wrong), this guy has said two completely different things 24 hours apart.

I can speak for myself and guarantee that the inteviews completely contradict themselves, and that my transation is solid.

My guess? The problem is at the source, so either Sony and Gaving lied, or the interviewer got it wrong on the contradictory one.
 
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vpance

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Not RT related, but I'm surprised no one mentioned how the huge boulder that falls onto the stairs was downgraded from PS3.

On PS3 it breaks into chunks that stay on the steps but in the remake it just disappears...
 

iHaunter

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Well if it doesn't implement ray-tracing which is probably the biggest sell for next-gen after faster SDD loading then it's fair to say that games are only going to get better.
RT was never the biggest sell, 4k/60 was. RT was a nice addition to games that could benefit a lot from it. Would I like RT on the knight armor in DeS? Of course! Will it matter at all, absolutely not. I will enjoy the game the exact same amount with or without RT.
 

Yoboman

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Considering all the last minute blips popping up, Gavin Moore might have had an internal PR date between honestly answering questions vs. dishonestly BSing.

Who knows.

Unless these two articles are incorrectly being translated by people (and Google translator is also wrong), this guy has said two completely different things 24 hours apart.
So you're saying Sony planned to lie up until yesterday?
 
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Kssio_Aug

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RT was never the biggest sell, 4k/60 was. RT was a nice addition to games that could benefit a lot from it. Would I like RT on the knight armor in DeS? Of course! Will it matter at all, absolutely not. I will enjoy the game the exact same amount with or without RT.
Not sure about that. I mean, obviously there isn't a book listing in order the "Top Next-Gen Selling Points", but imo 4K and RT seems to be the 2 most hyped "features" this gen.
 
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mansoor1980

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Not sure about that. I mean, obviously there isn't a book listing in order the "Top Next-Gen Selling Points", but imo 4K and RT seems to be the 2 most hyped "features" this gen.
ssd with its loading has been hyped too and it has been consistently impressive when looking at some of the videos
 
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Danjin44

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Oh no, the humanity.....Pre-order canceled.

/s
 
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So you're saying Sony planned to lie up until yesterday?
Possibly.

Gavin says in one of the articles RT is something that would need to be planned from the beginning, but they focused on other things.

But Sony promoted DS in the summer with RT.

So whose wrong? Gavin BSing Sony DS has RT so they green lit a website blurb? Or Sony BSing knowing DS doesn't have RT but they promoted it anyway?

Nice one. Even still says Demon's Souls has RT on Sony's web site. Nice last minute communication two weeks from launch.


Demon’s Souls from Japan Studio and Bluepoint Games
From Japan Studio and Bluepoint Games comes a remake of the PlayStation classic, Demon’s Souls. In addition to beautiful shadow effects and ray tracing, players can choose between two graphics modes while playing: one focused on fidelity, and one focused on frame rate.
 
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Tchu-Espresso

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This means the performance mode will likely see minimal downgrade in fidelity in order to achieve 60fps.
 
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Yoboman

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Possibly.

Gavin says in one of the articles RT is something that would need to be planned from the beginning, but they focused on other things.

They Sony promoted DS in the summer with RT.

So whose wrong? Gavin BSing Sony DS has RT so they green lit a website blurb? Or Sony BSing knowing DS doesn't have RT but they promoted it anyway?
Or you know, English to Spanish back to English translations have issues?

But yeah, let's go with the grand conspiracy
 

Lethal01

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RT was never the biggest sell, 4k/60 was. RT was a nice addition to games that could benefit a lot from it. Would I like RT on the knight armor in DeS? Of course! Will it matter at all, absolutely not. I will enjoy the game the exact same amount with or without RT.

RT is a far bigger sell than "NATIVE 4K". 60fps is good too though.
LEVEL UP recently had the opportunity to interview Gavin Moore, Creative Director of Demon's Souls and member of SIE Japan Studio, about various elements of the game. Of course, one of the topics that were touched on was the graphic section.

When questioning Gavin about the implementation of ray tracing in Demon's Souls , the creative made it clear that, although the opposite was announced at the beginning , it is an element absent from the exclusive for PlayStation 5.

“We don't actually implement raytracing in Demon's Souls . It's not because we couldn't or because the PlayStation 5 couldn't do it, it's fully capable of doing it, "said Moore.

Now the question is, if the PlayStation 5 can be raytraced and it could have been implemented in Demon's Souls , why leave it out? As explained by Moore, it was a decision they made since it was something that was outside their initial ideal of the project. Also, there is a certain cost to implement it and they preferred to prioritize other elements.

“It's like any other graphical improvement, there is a cost [to implement raytracing]. If we had implemented ray tracing in the game, that would mean that we would have had to leave something out. There is a limited time in game development.

When we started development we didn't know there would be ray tracing in the game, so it wasn't in our original vision. What we wanted to focus on was the settings and the look of the characters. Everything is lighting in real time with shadows in real time ”, were the words of Moore.



My take on this news? I think it's a bit of a bummer that this already stunning game can't take full advantage with Raytracing as the examples in which it would shine are bountiful.

However the overall visual fidelity of this title is something of a real premium quality and I'm still stunned by how Bluepoint have made such a stunning game, I can't wait till their next project where they are more used to the technology and can take further advantage of the PS5!

Considering there is an interview from just yesterday when the same guy says that there is raytracing like he has been saying for months.
Do you think you could edit the OP to include that interview so that people know not to look at this as confirmation when it seems like it could be mistranslation?
 

Clear

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They probably just use RT for the spatial audio. The definition is the use of ray/plane intersection tests to calculate spatial relationships based on geometry, it has nothing specifically to do with lighting/rendering.

As per usual people are fixating on a thing they don't fully understand.
 

Lethal01

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They probably just use RT for the spatial audio. The definition is the use of ray/plane intersection tests to calculate spatial relationships based on geometry, it has nothing specifically to do with lighting/rendering.

As per usual people are fixating on a thing they don't fully understand.

At the announcement of the game they specifically stated that it has raytracing used for light and shadow.
The same person in this interview repeated this yesterday.

Seems more like you are commenting on a situation you don't fully understand.
luv ya though.
 
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The 1st mistake is thinking that everyone working on games know the technical aspects of the games
Gavin Moore, Creative Director at Bluepoint doesn't know the difference between DS having RT one day saying it makes things look better, and no RT the next day because something like that would have to be planned from the beginning?
 
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onesvenus

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Or you know, English to Spanish back to English translations have issues?

But yeah, let's go with the grand conspiracy
Native spanish here. At least the Spanish to English translations are completely correct
 

SLoWMoTIoN

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Uh now that I know it isn't coming to my console of cccchoice and launch game....who even needs ray tracing when it was something I never STFU about for the last year? NOT this guy, heh.



 

quest

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I still don't understand what ray tracing does.
Kills frame rate for fancy puddle reflections. It also can be used for better lighting and shadows but doesn't show up in screenshots very well so not used. It is a performance hog for very little gain imo for 90% of games right now. Developers want to use it for lighting or audio then I'm up to discuss but reflections nope lol.
 

DonJorginho

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RT is a far bigger sell than "NATIVE 4K". 60fps is good too though.


Considering there is an interview from just yesterday when the same guy says that there is raytracing like he has been saying for months.
Do you think you could edit the OP to include that interview so that people know not to look at this as confirmation when it seems like it could be mistranslation?
Done my man!
 

TearInto5th

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This just proves that you don't need to have RT to make an amazing looking game. Im sure plenty of people thought it did, because the lighting is spectacular.

But if you can free up horsepower with an equal solution, why wouldn't you?
 
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The first interview brought in by the OP is very concise on the matter and specific in its words. IF it's 100% word for word quote then it's fair to conclude it doesn't have RayTracing.

Likewise, the second interview, while a bit more muddied, if quoted properly by the journalist does illustrate that Demon Souls does indeed have RayTracing.

The two interviews do contradict each other and require further clarification. Either the journalists are quoting poorly and/or taking some liberties in the translation (either one) or Gavin is BSing and has no fucking idea what he's talking about other than manage the project from the Top as Sony's handler.

Sony will have to clarify on this because of that. And that will be best for all.
 
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Grinchy

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I can't wait for fully ray traced games, but it's not like every game has to use limited forms of it to matter. The best looking game shown so far does not stop being the best looking game shown so far just because it doesn't have raytracing.
 

onesvenus

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I have asked both authors what's happening and the one that claims there's no raytracing posted the original English transcript of the interview



The original tweet is here
 
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Concern

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How do we go from "Xbox has no rt lolz" to DS not having rt now? More crow on the menu i guess.

Next gen is a fuckin mess. Happy with my decision not to buy shit on launch.
 

Ryu Kaiba

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Surprised it looks that good without RT. Curious what the chinematic mode differences are.
Ray tracing has done almost nothing in every game it's implemented in except Minecraft ironically. Hows it surprising games can look good without it.
 

Lethal01

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I have asked both authors what's happening and the one that claims there's no raytracing posted the original English transcript of the interview



The original tweet is here

I would have said this is definitive.
But I would have also said the interview where the same guy says that there is raytracing was definitive.

really hoping they respond.
 

Ryu Kaiba

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Exactly. Ray tracing has the ability to actually dramatically change how games are played. Think about something like rainbow six siege - with ray traced reflections and lighting you could see a reflection off a surface that another player is hiding around a corner off screen, whereas with current lighting and reflections that’s not possible. It adds a whole new dynamic to gameplay because the engine isn’t limited to what is directly on screen.
Yeah and it has to render all of that offscreen content as well. the next gen consoles are not ready. We won't have proper ray tracing for 2 more gens without coming at the cost of other features.
 
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Kagey K

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So all those “captured on Playstation 5“ images with ray tracing were just bullshots?

Why does it seem like every company is making it as hard as possible to know what’s going on with their new systems?
 

Lethal01

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Ray tracing has done almost nothing in every game it's implemented in except Minecraft ironically. Hows it surprising games can look good without it.

Raytracing put Metro Exodus, Control and Crysis on a whole other level compared to not having raytracing, don't know what you're talking about.
 

Lethal01

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3 games that were among the best looking games without it, it's legit a cherry on top, it's neat but unnecessary.

I mean, it's "not necessary" If you are fine with the game look far worse in comparison.