• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Business GamingBolt: Sony and PS5's performance in Japan is becoming a grave concern

Abriael_GN

Member
Feb 26, 2019
2,467
11,402
680
Italy
twinfinite.net
That's going to cost a couple limbs with the way MH Rise sold.

You know what other game MH Rise isn't beating in sales (and it isn't coming even close?) Monster Hunter World. 😂

Incidentally, why paying for exclusivity when Capcom can simply release the next for PS5, Xbox Series X|S, and PC on its own (which they'll likely do) and have exactly the same effect?
 
Last edited:

Marty-McFly

Member
Jul 2, 2021
1,434
3,688
465
You know what other game MH Rise isn't beating in sales (and it isn't coming even close?) Monster Hunter World. 😂

Incidentally, why paying for exclusivity when Capcom can simply release the next for PS5, Xbox Series X, and PC on its own (which they'll likely do) and have exactly the same effect?
MH Rise broke single platform records for Capcom on Switch, and it's still coming to PC. Keep dreaming.
 

Abriael_GN

Member
Feb 26, 2019
2,467
11,402
680
Italy
twinfinite.net
MH Rise broke single platform records for Capcom on Switch, and it's still coming to PC. Keep dreaming.

Single platform or multiplatform is irrelvant for Capcom when the costs of porting between PlayStation and Xbox are minimal, and they are.

Incidentally, during the same timeframe, Monster Hunter World still hadn't been released for PC either yet. So looks like you're the one that's dreaming. 😂

If anything, Monster Hunter Rise is clear and irrefutable evidence for Capcom that going for the Switch only can't beat the PS + Xbox combo, not even with their strongest franchise with a history of portability.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Rivet

KaiserBecks

Member
Jan 24, 2010
2,054
186
915
Europe
Sony made a lot of money, which is revenue generated. Sony genrerated way more revenue than Nintendo. Then they decide which part they reinvest or not.

Nintendo decides to reinvest less money and to get profit. Sony decides to reinvest more of it on making more exclusive games both internal and external, games that also are more expensive, and also invest more on acquisitions or even in more expensive hardware like PS5 or PSVR2 or services like securing PSN or PS Now content, and also decided to grow their workforce a lot.

If Sony wanted to have more profit than Nintendo only needed to reduce some of their investments on these areas. But like many big companies they reinvest most of their revenue.
Good Lord. I sincerely hope that whatever it is what you are doing for a living doesn‘t have anything to do with money.
 

Marty-McFly

Member
Jul 2, 2021
1,434
3,688
465
Single platform or multiplatform is irrelvant for Capcom when the costs of porting between PlayStation and Xbox are minimal, and they are.

Incidentally, during the same timeframe, Monster Hunter World still hadn't been released for PC either yet. So looks like you're the one that's dreaming. 😂

If anything, Monster Hunter Rise is clear and irrefutable evidence for Capcom that going for the Switch only can't beat the PS + Xbox combo, not even with their strongest franchise with a history of portability.
You think Capcom expected Rise to sell more on Switch than a multiplat? 😂 And that they're disappointed with it's record breaking single platform performance?

Just stop.

The only reason World launched as a multiplat is because Capcom knew that Playstation was not strong enough to carry the franchise on its own.

With Switch's install base lead over PS5 you'll be lucky to ever see another MH again.
 
Last edited:

Neil Young

Member
Mar 26, 2020
968
2,613
395
You guys are basically attacking me for what was written by Gaming Bolt, and they made some good points, but I think calling it a "grave" concern is a bit over the top.
This is world class disingenuous bullshit of the highest order. Just like your staged Zelda gif thread, you LOVE getting the reactions you do and being antagonistic. To play the victim now? Fucking hilarious.

"Grave concern" is the type of click bait nonsense that the "writer" of the article should feel ashamed for using....ESPECIALLY for a product that is selling as well as it possibly can. Just garbage writing to get the fans of competing products to jerk off all over themselves in a masturbatory flourish.

Obviously, you're very happy with Nintendo and their sales but are you REALLY happy with Nintendo as a gamer? Are you satisfied with their online services, E shop, game output and quality? Are you happy with their ongoing support for games and hardware (animal crossing sure comes to mind)? As a Switch owner, I can tell you I'm not. I'm happy for their success, but give back! Have a fucking sale, update your online, clean up the e shop, support your games, and stop releasing half assed lazy shit while still charging a premium.
 

Hoddi

Member
Nov 3, 2020
242
326
285
I usually find it best to ignore 'the sky is falling' dramatics. Even the Wii U had amazing games for all its faults and poor sales.

The PS5 will do well and so will the Xbox consoles. Everyone is always so deeply concerned about everything that their brows must be furrowed stuck.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Rivet

Marty-McFly

Member
Jul 2, 2021
1,434
3,688
465
This is world class disingenuous bullshit of the highest order. Just like your staged Zelda gif thread, you LOVE getting the reactions you do and being antagonistic. To play the victim now? Fucking hilarious.

"Grave concern" is the type of click bait nonsense that the "writer" of the article should feel ashamed for using....ESPECIALLY for a product that is selling as well as it possibly can. Just garbage writing to get the fans of competing products to jerk off all over themselves in a masturbatory flourish.

Obviously, you're very happy with Nintendo and their sales but are you REALLY happy with Nintendo as a gamer? Are you satisfied with their online services, E shop, game output and quality? Are you happy with their ongoing support for games and hardware (animal crossing sure comes to mind)? As a Switch owner, I can tell you I'm not. I'm happy for their success, but give back! Have a fucking sale, update your online, clean up the e shop, support your games, and stop releasing half assed lazy shit while still charging a premium.
I won't dignify the personal and dramatically foolish first half of your emotional rant with a response, but do you honestly expect news sites not to report on the fact that Sony didn't have a single game in the Top 30 in the last reporting period? It's the first time it happened in decades.

Sony's sales in Japan, in particular its software sales, have pretty much flat-lined. That may not make their worldwide situation grave, but it certainly makes the situation in Japan so and it's definitely newsworthy.

Maybe they shouldn't have reported on it to spare your feelings. :lollipop_neutral:
 
Last edited:

A.Romero

Member
Feb 23, 2009
3,670
2,450
1,250
Mexico
www.lavejota.com
1) this site is home to hard hitting articles like "hellpoint Dev says..."

2) Sony knows this. It is not new and I doubt they care. Too bad since I'm sure they would need to stop the censoring shit to have a shot.

Luckily even Japanese games are getting PC ports these days so...
 
Dec 22, 2019
738
536
295
Yeah Gravity Rush 1&2, The last Guardian, Shen Mue 3, Nioh 1&2, Multiple Y’s games, Shadow of the Colossus, Multiple Tales games, Sakura wars, Trails of cold Steel, Persona 5, Disgaea, Monster Hunter World, Bloodborne Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Kingdom Hearts, Knack 1& 2, Multiple Yakuza titles are very much America cinematic blockbusters right?……. ( No there not lol ) Many which are exclusive to PS4

That list is not a small or unimpressive list of games. People keep mentioning Playstations blockbuster games, but they neglect they release game of the year winners and runner ups like Uncharted, TLOU, God of War, Spider-man, Ghost of Tsushima, Horizon and Bloodborne. And release games like the list I have above. Something the competition isnt doing.

Seriously PS4 had alot of Japanese centric titles. And probably the come back of JRPG’S which was missing during the PS3/360/Wii era.

Its very simple, Japan is interested in Handhelds, thats what it is. They don’t care much about console games as much

Because the same Japanese Market gave even less shits about the Wii U and they had alot of the same games as the Switch. I guarantee, if the Switch was a console and not a hybrid/handheld, the Japanese Market wouldnt care about it.

If Sony wants to gain the Japanese Market back, its not about what games they release, they need to release another handheld

Plus the PS5 has supply shortage
Gravity Rush 1&2: barely any advertisement 1st game was stuck on the very expensive vita and then released as a limited ps4 release that now trends for $100+ on the used market.
The last Guardian: stuck in development hell because sony didn't want to give the studio a budget to finish it Fumito Ueda soon after along with the rest if studio japan
Shen Mue 3: multiplat and sony gave Yu Suzuki 0 a spot at e3 and no funds
Nioh 1&2: both games are on pc.
Multiple Y’s games: multiplat along with multiple games being on the switch, pc and xbox and a few are on the ios in japan
Shadow of the Colossus: a single one off game with no sequel you might as well bring up dark cloud.
Multiple Tales games: only games that are exclusive are the xilla games and grace f all the other games are on nintendo platforms, xbox or pc
Trails of cold Steel: whole series is on pc and switch has all the games up to 4 now in japan.
Persona 5: 1 exclusive
Disgaea: last 4 games are on nintendo platforms and the earlier games are on the DS and pc
Monster Hunter World: pc and xbox and isnt even a main story line MH game
Bloodborne: 2 exclusive
Dragon Quest: 8 and 11 are the only games sony and MS got ever other DQ game is on the DS,3ds,switch or super famicon.
Final Fantasy 7 Remake: timed exclusive
Kingdom Hearts: xbox and pc unless your talking about final mix but that only came out in japan on the ps2.
Knack 1& 2: bruh................................
Multiple Yakuza: 1-7 are on pc and xbox

So in total about 3 games are still exclusive to the sony platform almost all of those other games you can get else where and the other half of those games are decades old now studio japan isnt a thing either so you could chop that list down even more.
 
Dec 22, 2019
738
536
295
I mean they could of not censored and pissed off devs and customers. Stop pandering to the resetera types and just put out good games. None of this bs T&A censorship or uglifying/masculinizing women to please the radical crazies. We had actual JP devs complain about all of this.

If they could do that and still support their JP partners they could of at least had some 3rd party support. The fact is 3rd party made Sony and now they don't care.
Say it again for all the people in back
 

lachesis

Member
Jun 17, 2004
4,178
1,457
1,665
As I grew up with Japanese games from 80s and my favorite games are mostly on that side - bigger concern for me is that Japanese games and developers no longer leading the field in general, other than certain exceptions. (like Nintendo with their own blue ocean). Towards end of PS2 era, it felt like whole dynamic has shifted towards point of no-return to the west.

Market has changed, and Japan just couldn't keep up with the west's pace it seems - staggering economy since the burst of the bubble, probably is one of the many reasons, that they just can't afford to take more risks as the game development became so much expensive and all.

As long as consoles are marketable, I'm sure we'll get some Japanese games as well - but I am in acceptance that the golden days of Japanese games (other than Nintendo) being on the spotlight is over. So yeah. Not much surprise with current situation where we see hardly any PS5 games on the chart there. What's even strange is that we don't see many of PS4 games either, which it sold over 10M, I think - and most games are still cross gen games. Early adapters also tend to buy more games, but it just doesn't seem that way. We see fast PS5 HW sales pace with lack of SW sales in comparison - which I find rather strange.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Closer

leo-j

Member
Jun 27, 2018
735
975
380
You mean comeback like PS4? Which sold less then PS3 in Japan?
PS - 18,8 million
PS2 - 21,4 million
PS3 - 10,4 million
PS4 - 9,3 million

Sony would be glad if they would come close to PS4 numbers in Japan. But i can't see a reason why. They are not making games for that market and many IP's that are popular there are finally coming to other platforms (Yakuza, Persona) so incentive to buy a PS5 is even lesser.

Primary targets for Sony are NA and EU. It's clear as a day. Japan is just an afterthought at this point and they are selling on brand recognition alone.

First of all, and this is so interesting how the OP quotes software sales because hardware sales are actually higher on the ps5 end in Japan compared to ps4 if you compare life time sales.

also this whole notion that 3 rd party games are selling better on switch is ridiculous. And the big Japanese franchises are still defaulting to PlayStation/pc/ and sometimes Xbox because they will sell way more in the west than in Japan.

monster hunter world demolished rise sales, and yes rise is still selling some but it will not come even close to MHW on PS4. That and RESIDENT EVIL 8, FF XIV AND XVI, and VII are so far on PlayStation and not on switch. Also a lot of these charts don’t even account for digital sales on psn which account for a good 30-40 % if not more of total software sales for a game on ps5.
 
Last edited:

Amin_Parker

Member
Apr 15, 2021
103
181
220
Tokyo
www.facebook.com
As I grew up with Japanese games from 80s and my favorite games are mostly on that side - bigger concern for me is that Japanese games and developers no longer leading the field in general, other than certain exceptions. (like Nintendo with their own blue ocean). Towards end of PS2 era, it felt like whole dynamic has shifted towards point of no-return to the west.

Market has changed, and Japan just couldn't keep up with the west's pace it seems - staggering economy since the burst of the bubble, probably is one of the many reasons, that they just can't afford to take more risks as the game development became so much expensive and all.

As long as consoles are marketable, I'm sure we'll get some Japanese games as well - but I am in acceptance that the golden days of Japanese games (other than Nintendo) being on the spotlight is over. So yeah. Not much surprise with current situation where we see hardly any PS5 games on the chart there. What's even strange is that we don't see many of PS4 games either, which it sold over 10M, I think - and most games are still cross gen games. Early adapters also tend to buy more games, but it just doesn't seem that way. We see fast PS5 HW sales pace with lack of SW sales in comparison - which I find rather strange.
I'm sorry but the PS4 was not able to sell 10 million units in Japan this generation. It barely even hit 9 million. That's how bad the PlayStation brand situation is in Japan. It couldn't even match the sales of the PS3. So please keep that in mind and make a note of it.
 
Last edited:

Marty-McFly

Member
Jul 2, 2021
1,434
3,688
465
First of all, and this is so interesting how the OP quotes software sales because hardware sales are actually higher on the ps5 end in Japan compared to ps4 if you compare life time sales.

also this whole notion that 3 rd party games are selling better on switch is ridiculous. And the big Japanese franchises are still defaulting to PlayStation/pc/ and sometimes Xbox because they will sell way more in the west than in Japan.

monster hunter world demolished rise sales, and yes rise is still selling some but it will not come even close to MHW on PS4. That and RESIDENT EVIL 8, FF XIV AND XVI, and VII are so far on PlayStation and not on switch. So?
Monster Hunter World is a multiplat. Rise broke single platform records for Capcom on the Switch.

The Japanese games that are selling better on Switch that the article is citing to are smaller niche Japanese titles that appear on PS4 and Switch. If you've been paying attention to Japanese sales threads over the last couple years you'd see this as well.

PS5's launch hardware sales at this point are irrelevant. It will not do as well as the PS4, which did not do as well as the PS3, which did not do as well as the PS2. With its non existent software sales, it's going to be bracing for a hard fall.
 
Last edited:

leo-j

Member
Jun 27, 2018
735
975
380
Monster Hunter World is a multiplat. Rise broke single platform records for Capcom on the Switch.

The Japanese games that are selling better on Switch that the article is citing to are smaller niche Japanese titles that appear on PS4 and Switch. If you've been paying attention to Japanese sales threads over the last couple years you'd see this as well.

PS5's launch hardware sales at this point are irrelevant. It will not do as well as the PS4, which did not do as well as the PS3, which did not do as well as the PS2. With its non existent software sales, it's going to be bracing for a hard fall.
Actually they aren’t irrelevant. The fact ps5 is doing better with a supply constraint than the PS4 is a good thing for the ps5. Software sales as mentioned aren’t being tallied 100 percent nearly half of ps5 game sales are digital.
And good luck falling hard when the biggest 3rd party games continue to release on ps5. Like FF (mainline ip) and MH World 2 and Yakuza and so forth. MHW sold mostly on PS4 I mentioned just the PS4 version. Rise will not sell more than 20 million copies.
 

lachesis

Member
Jun 17, 2004
4,178
1,457
1,665
I'm sorry but the PS4 was not able to sell 10 million units in Japan this generation. It didn't even hit 9 million. That's how bad the PlayStation brand situation is in Japan. It couldn't even match the sales of the PS3. So please keep that in mind and make a note of it.
Dully noted & looked it up myself and you are absolutely correct, according to Famitsu. It's indeed a far-cry from 23M+ PS2 sales. Yikes. I must have heard wrong, or may have heard of roughly-rounded up version.

Soon it could be like this when it comes to Switch vs PS5, if it's already not the case...

 
Last edited:

Marty-McFly

Member
Jul 2, 2021
1,434
3,688
465
Actually they aren’t irrelevant. The fact ps5 is doing better with a supply constraint than the PS4 is a good thing for the ps5. Software sales as mentioned aren’t being tallied 100 percent nearly half of ps5 game sales are digital.
And good luck falling hard when the biggest 3rd party games continue to release on ps5. Like FF (mainline ip) and MH World 2 and Yakuza and so forth. MHW sold mostly on PS4 I mentioned just the PS4 version. Rise will not sell more than 20 million copies.
Right, well I'm fairly confident the PS5 will continue the trend and be Sony's lowest selling mainline console ever in Japan. I believe Covid, scalpers and the online ordering system in place is artificially inflating their numbers right now, but I guess time will tell. :messenger_winking:
 

MrFunSocks

Member
Jul 9, 2020
4,228
7,611
665
Japan is basically irrelevant in the home console gaming world these days, the switch being the exception because of its handheld ability. Japanese console sales have been on the decline for generations, and their contributions to software has also drastically reduced. Remember the 360/PS3 generation and how almost all Japanese devs struggled with the “move to HD”?

It’s just not a market of any real importance to Sony or Microsoft anymore. The 360 sold 85+ million consoles with peanuts from Japan. The xb1 sold probably 60 million with no help from Japan. The PS4 has sold like 120 mill with what, 8 mil from Japan?

Niche gaming places like this that love their weibo Japanese “quirky” games might hate it, but it’s the truth. Japan just isn’t very relevant to gaming anymore. PlayStation is basically American at this point.
 
Last edited:

peter42O

Member
Aug 9, 2014
4,434
2,519
650
Don't see how this is even news. PS2 was the peak in Japan at under 25m. PS3 dropped to around 12m and PS4 is estimated to be under 10m. Japan is mobile gaming and handhelds which is why Switch will end up being #3 all-time when it's all said and done. Japan simply doesn't give a shit about consoles. It's as simple as that.
 
  • Praise the Sun
Reactions: Hobbygaming

Marty-McFly

Member
Jul 2, 2021
1,434
3,688
465
Don't see how this is even news. PS2 was the peak in Japan at under 25m. PS3 dropped to around 12m and PS4 is estimated to be under 10m. Japan is mobile gaming and handhelds which is why Switch will end up being #3 all-time when it's all said and done. Japan simply doesn't give a shit about consoles. It's as simple as that.
This is more about software sales. It seems they've died off completely in Japan for Sony during the transition from PS4 to the PS5, which is somewhat significant.
 
Oct 30, 2011
6,957
7,679
1,075
I won't dignify the personal and dramatically foolish first half of your emotional rant with a response, but do you honestly expect news sites not to report on the fact that Sony didn't have a single game in the Top 30 in the last reporting period? It's the first time it happened in decades.

Sony's sales in Japan, in particular its software sales, have pretty much flat-lined. That may not make their worldwide situation grave, but it certainly makes the situation in Japan so and it's definitely newsworthy.

Maybe they shouldn't have reported on it to spare your feelings. :lollipop_neutral:

It's nothing new. How is it noteworthy? Sony not caring about videogame sales in Japan when they're killing it everywhere else. News at 11. Sony hasn't been dominant since the PS2 days in Japan.

They've moved on. They could make a console focused strictly for Japan - small Switch like console if you will - but 1) There's no guarantee it would do well, 2) it would likely make their sales everywhere else (US, EU, etc) much worse. So why bother?

Their current strategy works for them, Japan is a lost cause.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hobbygaming

Marty-McFly

Member
Jul 2, 2021
1,434
3,688
465
It's nothing new. How is it noteworthy? Sony not caring about videogame sales in Japan when they're killing it everywhere else. News at 11. Sony hasn't been dominant since the PS2 days in Japan.

They've moved on. They could make a console focused strictly for Japan - small Switch like console if you will - but 1) There's no guarantee it would do well, 2) it would likely make their sales everywhere else (US, EU, etc) much worse. So why bother?

Their current strategy works for them, Japan is a lost cause.
From the article
There is not one single PlayStation game in the top 30. And while it goes without saying, it bears repeating – the top 30 is all Nintendo, while being one system, which is obviously the Switch. One system has total and absolute domination over the software sales in an entire major market. This has quite literally never happened since the heyday of the NES (the Family Computer, or Famicom, in Japan), and it paints a rather sordid picture for the state of Sony’s prospects in Japan going forward.

This is honestly shocking, because even though Nintendo has traditionally done very well in Japan, Sony has always held the lion’s share of software sales in the country. The PS1 and PS2 were absolute monsters, the PSP was where most Japanese games migrated to even as the industry struggled with the transition to HD; the PS3 eventually managed to rally most of the Japanese industry behind it, with the PS3, PSP, and PS Vita forming a combined ecosystem that saw a lot of Japanese publishers continue to prioritize and emphasize PlayStation systems for their projects. Once the PS4 came on to the scene, it took a while to get going, but even while it was finding its footing, the PS3 and PS Vita held up the fort, and eventually, the PS4 and Vita continued that ecosystem further.
 
Last edited:
  • Love
Reactions: Amin_Parker
Aug 28, 2019
4,666
9,559
650
www.instagram.com
This is why I said 'almost twice' instead of 'twice'.

But it's not "almost", either. They are short $7 billion in order to come within that. When you say "almost", I think within striking distance. 25 billion is nowhere near striking distance of 32 billion.

You could literally fit the world's population between those two numbers :nougat_rofl:

The thing is that SFV will still be getting DLC almost 6 years after release, something that leads to think DLC sold a lot. In the monthly character usage rankings every time a new character was released it got in top usage positions, leading to think many people bought them. In addition to that, it's very frequent to see paid DLC stages, costumes or even colors when playing online. So I'm pretty confident that it not only sold well, but also must have generated a lot of money from DLC. And on top of that money, they also got the Sony moneyhat. And it also got plenty of marketing merchandising deals.

In fact, when it started the big comeback it had after the rocky launch SFV became the cover story of Capcom's yearly IR report for investors, and it was the year MHW debuted becoming their best selling games ever. Capcom must be very happy with it.

SFV has survived almost exclusively off its DLC. If it weren't for DLC sales, SFV would've been a financial disaster. But, we're talking game sales here, not DLC content sales.

So in terms of game sales, referencing SFV's sold near 6 million copies means nothing too much when many of those copies were sold below original MSRP, and well below original MSRP for copies sold during promotions like for EVO and Capcom Cup, which were done regularly.

If you want to say the game's generated a lot of revenue, I would agree with that. However, it absolutely did not generate the lionshare of its revenue from pure software sales, hence my point in rebuking the claim about software sales you made the first time.

They said they will have more exclusives than ever. They said that want to have better relationship/strengthen bonds and more exclusives form Japanese teams. And said they are increasing their internal teams and planning to make acquisitions.

Everything may not be related but knowing that context, even if they signed these 3 western games but we also know that:

-PS5 got during its launch window Astro's Playroom, Demon's Souls (even if remade by westerns), Nioh Collection, FFVIIR Intergrade, Neptunia ReVerse or Guilty Gear Strive

Four of those are cross-gen games with PS4 as the lead platform. Dunno how this is indicative of PS5 as a leading element in landing those as timed exclusives/exclusives or indicative of continued Japanese 3P AAA exclusives support beyond what they got with PS4 (or even at the level they got with PS4).

Also one of those is Square-Enix who I already said would be one of the publishers likely willing to continue signing big term timed exclusivity deals with Sony. Neptunia ReVerse IIRC is published by Idea Factory; 90% of their published library is for Sony platforms so it's not really much of a big get (as in something Sony had to work for) to get one of their games (which is a revamped release of a PSP game btw) as a PS4/PS5 exclusive.

-Games like Death Stranding Director's Cut, Ghostwire Tokyo, Babylon's Fall, Forspoken, GT7, Granblue Fantasy: Relink, Relayer (Kadokawa SRPG with mechas), Neptunia ReVerse, FFXVI or Project Awakening are coming soon most of them in the next half a year or so (plus others like Tales of Arise that aren't exclusive but won't available on Switch)

I figure you meant completely new games here, not content expansions, and you just mentioned Neptunia. FF, Forespoken, Babylon's Fall, again, are Square-Enix, so their statuses aren't surprising at this point, they are par for the course and not something Sony really needs to "reach out" in terms of getting extended Japanese support.

Project Awakening could easily go vaporware, also it has not been confirmed as an exclusive or timed exclusive (to my knowledge); it was just revealed initially for PS4. GT7 is a 1P studio; I thought this discussion was hinging on Japanese third-party developers/publishers? Even so, it's not really a "Japanese-y" kind of game the way most people look at this when discussing Japanese support.

It's arguable the reason most of these games aren't coming to Switch is due to technical restraints. While some Western devs have shown they are willing to scale games thought impossible to run on Switch to run on the system (or just stream the game on the platform even), that isn't the case with the majority of Japanese third-party devs seems like. So it's native port or bust for them. I expect this to no longer be an issue with Super Switch/Switch 2, however, especially if it incorporates DLSS technology and has baseline specs roughly on par with the Steam Deck.

Considering at that point it would not be too far removed from a Series S, and at least as capable as a Steam Deck, considering many 3P releases are getting very solid scaled ports to Series S and reportedly running very good on Steam Deck, I don't expect games to suddenly worsen in factors of scalability for "reasons" when engines seem to be trending towards more scalability/flexibility, not less, regardless of increasing technical demands of games over the next several years.

-Compare that to the output of Japanese exclusives from Nintendo or Microsoft during the same period

Microsoft already spent the past several years not getting much in terms of Japanese exclusives with XBO, and that period was basically more of the same last year as they were transitioning to the Series platforms.

It's also not much a secret that they weren't trying very hard to get exclusives of any kind from major 3P devs/pubs in the last few years of 8th-gen, and their roadmap has clearly shown a buildup for ramping internal exclusive content which we're starting to see come to fruition this summer and beyond.

Nintendo isn't one I can necessarily explain for but I'm sure you might be underplaying the degree of Japanese exclusives they got, considering they practically own the Japanese market at this time and will pretty much continue so for the foreseeable near future.

-Many more Japanese games may be working on PS exclusives but still didn't announce them because released their previous exclusive a yeear or two ago -or even more- and still aren't ready to show their next game. Examples could be Vanillaware, Persona 6 or (it's being developed in UE5) Dragon Quest XII

This is more a guessing game and fantasy wishlist for exclusive content but even from what you just mention here some of these aren't as probable as you may think. I wouldn't be surprised if Vanillaware's next game is PS exclusive (though there's a strong chance it could come to Switch as well). Persona 6 is even less probable considering what we've seen Microsoft do with SEGA in getting the Yakuza series on GamePass and ensuring future Yakuza installments come Day-and-Date to their platforms (and they will likely also continue to support PC with ports).

Considering Atlus is owned by SEGA, and even games like Dragon Quest have now gotten ports to Xbox platforms, at the very least there's a good chance the next Persona could launch on PC Day-and-Date or not very far after. Considering Microsoft's close relationship with SEGA I'm expecting they've probably been negotiating about getting Persona Day-and-Date on their Xbox platforms, as well.

-After restructuring Team Asobi is hiring and XDEV is hiring for producing Japanese and Asia 2nd party games

Yeah, this did happen, but that could literally be anything. It's not like Microsoft and Nintendo don't have studio firms concentrated on bringing more Japanese 2nd-party games to their platforms, either. All three are doing this.

-Sony signed the deal with Kadokawa, From Software's parent company. Both From and Kadokawa already made many PS exclusive games since PS1

Isn't this like a 2% stake in Kadokawa Publishing? Again, you're trying to draw a correlation here without pertinent, current proof. The Kadokawa thing could also be related to anime licensing for dub releases in the West based on manga published by Kadokawa.

I wouldn't count out a new From exclusive for PS5 but there's not a lot to suggest one is coming atm and even so we wouldn't hear a lick about it until after Elden Ring is released and has had some time to itself for a few months.

-The guy who leaked the GoT Iki expansion also mentioned that Sony is negotiating the acquisition of Arc System Works

Nick also talked a lot about Microsoft having an "acquisition season" on several podcasts leading up to their E3, and nothing happened in that regard. Though TBF, things might've happened behind-the-scenes in one way or another that haven't been revealed yet, but I think their recent-ish financial calling would've shown some indication that a recent acquisition or two happened. Maybe it did and I didn't pay attention tho.

I already commented on the Arc/Sony stuff when that rumor first broke out; it's not an unreasonable one and there's a lot that Sony could do with a studio like that, not just with Guilty Gear (maybe license an anime for it, or a 2D-style JRPG with GG fighting mechanics) but maybe in doing another anime-style fighter with an anime IP Sony owns Western licensing rights to (as long as it's not High Guardian Spice :/).

That said, it's still in the "acquisition" territory and if that does come from Nick (tho with the Iki stuff I think it was either him or Dealer Gaming, another person deep into the Xbox side of rumors IMO), he doesn't have a good track record with acquisition-related rumors apparently 🤷‍♂️

PS4 wasn't short of Japanese exclusives, and PS5 won't be short of Japanese exclusives.

I never said Sony WOULDN'T have Japanese exclusives, I just said they will most likely have less of them, whether they be timed or full. The Microsoft and Nintendo they are up against this time are not the weak platform holders they were up against from 2013 - 2017, when they got a lot of the software presence for PS4 established during that time frame (most things we've been seeing since are essentially payoffs for investments in that four-year time period).

Although I mean this mainly in terms of "natural" 3P exclusives (and I am talking 3P here, since 1P-wise Sony's only studios are Team Asobi and Polyphony Digital, and we know PD are GT-focused and rather...slow-ish...getting those out timely). You know, the kind that simply went with PlayStation for exclusivity seeing it as the defacto platform of choice and no other platform holders trying to bring those games to their platform (and the devs/pubs not seeing PC as a viable platform).

I think those days are more or less done for PlayStation, especially if Nintendo continues to be strong and brings out a Switch 2/Super Switch that's technologically competent (at least when compared to the Steam Deck), and Microsoft continues to make moves similar to what they've done with companies like SEGA in getting more Japanese content to GamePass (and by virtue, Xbox platforms and potentially PC).

However, if Sony starts to moneyhat more of those games for timed/full exclusivity, or (preferably) initiates co-development of new 2P games with certain 3P Japanese studios, then they can retain a decent deal of such games as platform exclusives, maybe. That said, it'd be at the expense of hundreds of millions (over the course of the generation) doing such, whereas even with PS4, let alone PS3 or especially PS2 and PS1, many of those games would've literally just defaulted as PlayStation exclusives without much money rom Sony to make them so (tho I do stress many, not all; with PS1 for example and particularly with Western games (but also some Japanese ones) Sony did start doling out for exclusivity contracts when they saw the opportunity around 1997, after the trajectory for Saturn an N64 became clear).

It's not going to be like that anymore. And ultimately, that's for the best.
 
Last edited:
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Marty-McFly

cyber69

Member
Sep 21, 2018
2,413
4,361
425
Good Lord. I sincerely hope that whatever it is what you are doing for a living doesn‘t have anything to do with money.

What's the issue? He isn't wrong. This is how industry growth is accomplished. It is a risk. Spend more to make more. How much longer do you think Nintendo can keep this up by making minimum viable products?
 

Marty-McFly

Member
Jul 2, 2021
1,434
3,688
465
What's the issue? He isn't wrong. This is how industry growth is accomplished. It is a risk. Spend more to make more. How much longer do you think Nintendo can keep this up by making minimum viable products?
Nintendo is like Apple or Disney at this point. They are so iconic they could endure for centuries, especially now that they have all of their IP's on one platform.

Even if gaming goes to streaming, they will undoubtedly have their own service and that would dominate as well.

The IP they have accumulated are priceless, and worth much more than the newest soon to be obsolete tech and franchises from the latest shoot shoot bang bang.

How do you compete with this?



You don't.

 

Leyasu

Member
Apr 25, 2014
6,175
3,350
720
I see Gamingbolt hasn't stopped courting console warriors with ludicrous "articles." 😂

Oh my god! Franchises that were Playstation exclusives before now are going multiplatform and the Switch is getting them!

But what about franchises that were Nintendo exclusives before and now are going multiplatform like Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water? It's funny that they cite Atelier, but not this that comes from the same company? Talk about citing only what supports your misguided point. What about Ace Attorney? Inazuma Eleven? Yo-Kai Watch?

Oh my god! Disgaea 6 is Switch exclusive!

Not in Japan. Weren't we talking about Japan?

There are still a ton of Japanese games that aren't launched on Switch at all, like Relayer, Tales of Arise, King of Fighters XV, Scarlet nexus, Final Fantasy VII Remake, The Idolmaster, Sword Art Online: Alicization Lycoris, Code Vein, Guilty Gear Strive, Oneechanbara, and many, many others.

The simple reality is that Japanese mid-tier developers haven't suddenly started to love Nintendo and hate PlayStation. They have simply understood that going multiplatform means more money, in both directions. And for many, it's still a lot more convenient to go multiplatform for PS, PC, and Xbox leaving the Switch aside because downporting stuff for the weakest console isn't cheap.



But this isn't news. It's a poor website that has been pushing console warring flamebait for a decade trying to get some clicks by posting a poorly informed and misinformative "opinion" based on skewed points. 😂

You may want to check a dictionary for the meaning of "news" because opinion pieces don't fall in that category.
Lol holy fuck this coming from the guy that wrote/writes endless 2 paragraph blogs especially for the fanboys on N4G.

GTFO lol
 

KaiserBecks

Member
Jan 24, 2010
2,054
186
915
Europe
What's the issue? He isn't wrong. This is how industry growth is accomplished. It is a risk. Spend more to make more. How much longer do you think Nintendo can keep this up by making minimum viable products?
Theres nothing wrong with what he thinks he is saying, it‘s just that what he‘s actually saying would put any company out of business sooner or later.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
Jun 22, 2011
11,545
2,826
970
Holland
It hasn't been a grave concern with the PS4. In fact, the PS4 saw much more good Japanese output than the PS3, even.

Console market in Japan is a lost cause. We get Tales of Arise very soon anyway, Judgment 2 after that. We can look forward to DQXII and many more. Their games are good and seem to do okay enough in the west. I don't really care.
 

BattleScar

Member
Jul 29, 2016
1,113
2,335
485
Nintendo is like Apple or Disney at this point. They are so iconic they could endure for centuries, especially now that they have all of their IP's on one platform.

Even if gaming goes to streaming, they will undoubtedly have their own service and that would dominate as well.

The IP they have accumulated are priceless, and worth much more than the newest soon to be obsolete tech and franchises from the latest shoot shoot bang bang.

How do you compete with this?



You don't.


Question is, will Nintendo want to fork out the cash for streaming infrastructure? I think at that point they'd either go third party or continue to have their little portable shitboxes being sold at massive margins. Either way they'll be fine.
 

El Pistolero

Member
May 21, 2020
690
1,116
325
Western media really, really wish for the Playstation to fail. I guess Sony not catering to their needs in terms of channeling the information through them has made these outlets hyper resentful and sensitive...
Japan has been a lost cause for traditional home consoles for more than a decade now...Unless you are Nintendo, with their beloved franchises, or a mobile oriented company, you will not cut it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hobbygaming

anthony2690

Member
Apr 16, 2021
758
1,472
450
Grave concern is a bit extreme.
I am going to assume they are selling out of the low amount of stock they are shipping to Japan.
I just get the feeling Sony is focusing on USA and and other Western regions over Japan currently.
I'm sure sales will pick up when more stock is available in Japan.
 
Last edited:

Kokoloko85

Member
Sep 26, 2019
4,094
5,141
475
Gravity Rush 1&2: barely any advertisement 1st game was stuck on the very expensive vita and then released as a limited ps4 release that now trends for $100+ on the used market.
The last Guardian: stuck in development hell because sony didn't want to give the studio a budget to finish it Fumito Ueda soon after along with the rest if studio japan
Shen Mue 3: multiplat and sony gave Yu Suzuki 0 a spot at e3 and no funds
Nioh 1&2: both games are on pc.
Multiple Y’s games: multiplat along with multiple games being on the switch, pc and xbox and a few are on the ios in japan
Shadow of the Colossus: a single one off game with no sequel you might as well bring up dark cloud.
Multiple Tales games: only games that are exclusive are the xilla games and grace f all the other games are on nintendo platforms, xbox or pc
Trails of cold Steel: whole series is on pc and switch has all the games up to 4 now in japan.
Persona 5: 1 exclusive
Disgaea: last 4 games are on nintendo platforms and the earlier games are on the DS and pc
Monster Hunter World: pc and xbox and isnt even a main story line MH game
Bloodborne: 2 exclusive
Dragon Quest: 8 and 11 are the only games sony and MS got ever other DQ game is on the DS,3ds,switch or super famicon.
Final Fantasy 7 Remake: timed exclusive
Kingdom Hearts: xbox and pc unless your talking about final mix but that only came out in japan on the ps2.
Knack 1& 2: bruh................................
Multiple Yakuza: 1-7 are on pc and xbox

So in total about 3 games are still exclusive to the sony platform almost all of those other games you can get else where and the other half of those games are decades old now studio japan isnt a thing either so you could chop that list down even more.

1st of all theres alot more than 3 exclusives lol.

You cant say stuff like “barely any advertisement 1st game was stuck on the very expensive vita…..” And not count Gravity Rush 2 as an exclusive…

Or The Last Guardian, random paragraph about its development struggle and not count it as an exclusive. It still counts as an exclusive game lol.

Final Fantasy 7 remake, “timed exclusive”. Its still only on Playstation for now and no news of it releasing anywhere else atm.
Shadow of the Collosus is still an exclusive and Dark Cloud got a sequel.

Sakura wars doesnt even get a mention in your list etc.
Neither does Everybody’s Golf
Or Street Fighter 5 which is a pretty big title.

To me its pretty simple. Nintendo is dominating in Japan because its portable. Its not all about Nintendo releasing banging Japanese exclusives. Or Playstation only putting efforts into the Big blockbusters.

Yes I love the effort Nintendo is putting in Japan with its smaller titles like Crayon Shin Chan etc but I think if they released the same games on a pure console the Japanese Market wouldnt care as much.

Year by year its clear the Japanese market is going away from Console more towards mobile and portable. Doesnt really matter what Playstation or Nintenodo do, console games wont outsell portable games apart from rare occasions.

The number 1 game on the Chart is Minecraft, which doesnt get the same love as the PS4 version because its not a portable. Number 4 is Mario Kart 8 which is practically the same as the Wii U and it didnt get close to the same numbers as its console version. Or number 8 in Smash bros. Because these versions are portable. If the Switch was a console the Japanese Market wouldnt care just like the Wii U.

Infact Nintendo consoles tend to do worst in Japan than the rest of the world.

The Saturn outold the N64 in Japan. The gamecube sold terribly in Japan and was saved by the US market. Nintendo’s best selling console the Wii only outsold Playstations worst console ( the PS3) by 2million. But they always sell amazingly with their handhelds.

Nintendo done an amazing job of making a hybrid and are now doing a even better job with there efforts in Japan, but it wouldn’t be close if it wasn’t a hybrid.

This generation has had a resurgence in JRPG’s for the PS4 and Switch but the Japanese market cares more about Mobile and portable games.

Heres another list of Japanese centric exclusives for the PS4:
Repeating Playstation hasnt made any effort apart from its blockbusters like God of War is ignorant.


13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim
Border Break
City Shrouded in Shadow - Namco
Crows: Burning Edge
Natsuiro High School Seisyun Hakusyo
Taiko no Tatsujin: Drum Session!
Tottemo E Mahjong Plus
Date A Live: Ren Dystopia
Mobile Suit Gundam: Battle Operation 2
Genkai Tokki: Castle Panzers
Hatsune Miku: Project Diva Future Tone
A-Train Express
Full Metal Panic! Fight: Who Dares Wins
Yuuna and the Haunted Hot Springs: Steam Dungeon
Sorcer Striker (Mahou Daisakusen)
Tear: Owari to Hajimari no Shizuku
Dream Club: Host Girls on Stage

Plus loads more lol

Also on PC
Tokyo xanadu ex
DJMAX Respect
Daydreamer: Awakened Edition


Upcoming:

Love Live! School Idol Festival ~after school ACTIVITY~ Wai-Wai! Home Meeting!!
Gungrave


These games plus the games I mentioned above shows they have released alot of Japanese centric games, its just they are not portable and thats why they are not as popular. Just like Minecraft is Switch’s number 1 selling game this week but the PS4 version isn’t even in the top 30
 
  • Praise the Sun
Reactions: Hobbygaming

yurinka

Member
Jan 19, 2007
13,878
5,870
1,745
Barcelona, Spain
www.capcom-town.es
SFV has survived almost exclusively off its DLC. If it weren't for DLC sales, SFV would've been a financial disaster. But, we're talking game sales here, not DLC content sales. So in terms of game sales, referencing SFV's sold near 6 million copies means nothing too much when many of those copies were sold below original MSRP, and well below original MSRP for copies sold during promotions like for EVO and Capcom Cup, which were done regularly.

If you want to say the game's generated a lot of revenue, I would agree with that. However, it absolutely did not generate the lionshare of its revenue from pure software sales, hence my point in rebuking the claim about software sales you made the first time.
Capcom's original target was to sell 2 million copies on its first fiscal year and missed it selling 1.4M instead. If it would have been a financial disaster they would have stopped supporting it with new paid and free DLC and new game updates as they did with Marvel vs Capcom Infinite. Even if didn't reach their target it was enough for Capcom (combined with DLC sales, Sony's moneyhat, merchandising, marketing deals etc) to continue releasing DLC for it achieving what Ono mentioned back in 2016 around its release of 'if it gets enough player support we'd like to keep supporting the game until at least 2020' (it has been so successful that it will get its last DLC at the end of 2021 and will have CPT/Capcom Cup until 2022).

For Capcom it has been a financial success not only now, but also a couple of years after release when they highlighted it as a success story to their investors in their financial Integrated Report 2018 (financial yearly report for FY2017) explaining how they made the comeback reworking their server stuff, fixing other stuff and adding user requested stuff plus the support from eSports.

It sold until now 5.8M (as I remember sold 300K units in the last quearter), which means the 9th best selling Capcom ever and 2nd best selling Capcom fighting game project ever for consoles and PC with only SF2 for SNES 500K units above it and even put Capcom at the Tokyo Olympics. Sure, it gets discounts and price cuts. So what? Mostly every game in the world excluding the Nintendo ones gets them.

And yes being a Game as a Service I'd assume a good chunk of its revenue comes from DLC. It's revenue for the game, like the one from the sales, the one from the moneyhat, the one from merchandising, the one from marketing deals with external brands like Redbull, the one from eSports etc. If you don't like it it's your issue. We don't know the amount of revenue it generated or which percentage from each revenue channel but we know it's one of the best selling Capcom games ever, that it sold a shit ton of DLC, that it got money from Sony, that got multiple marketing deals etc. And yes, it got big discounts as any other Capcom (or from other companies excluding Nintendo) game gets.

It didn't achieve its goal for its first fiscal year but ended being a success and still sells and generates money. Very likely will end selling over 6 million copies.

Four of those are cross-gen games with PS4 as the lead platform. Dunno how this is indicative of PS5 as a leading element in landing those as timed exclusives/exclusives or indicative of continued Japanese 3P AAA exclusives support beyond what they got with PS4 (or even at the level they got with PS4).

Also one of those is Square-Enix who I already said would be one of the publishers likely willing to continue signing big term timed exclusivity deals with Sony. Neptunia ReVerse IIRC is published by Idea Factory; 90% of their published library is for Sony platforms so it's not really much of a big get (as in something Sony had to work for) to get one of their games (which is a revamped release of a PSP game btw) as a PS4/PS5 exclusive.
So what? They are PlayStation exclusive games. Most of the PS userbase is still and will still be on PS4 so obviously they also release their games as crossgen because this is a business and they release games to make money, not to please kiddy fanboys who get angry because the players who still didn't upgrade to next gen are also getting their game.

In addition to this, devs didn't get the early PS5 specs until 2018 and the full specs until 2019, an with the console releasing late 2020 they didn't have time to make AAA games designed from scratch for the new console. As happens every generation the first games are mostly games originally made for the previous generation that got adapted to the new machine and still didn't learn to take full advantage of the new hardware and features because they need time and experience to do so. And this is why games don't take advantage of new machines until their 2nd or 3rd generation games that are released during mid generataion.

I figure you meant completely new games here, not content expansions, and you just mentioned Neptunia. FF, Forespoken, Babylon's Fall, again, are Square-Enix, so their statuses aren't surprising at this point, they are par for the course and not something Sony really needs to "reach out" in terms of getting extended Japanese support.
I meant 1st, 2nd and 3rd party standalone Japanese PlayStation (at least timed console) exclusive games. Titles that appear as a game in the store, that are made in Japan and at least during a fair amount of time only will be available on PlayStation and not in other consoles.

Some made by Sony, some made by others but moneyhatted by Sony, some that their 3rd party creators decided to make it exclusive with no Sony involvement because they thought it was their best business decision.

Project Awakening could easily go vaporware, also it has not been confirmed as an exclusive or timed exclusive (to my knowledge); it was just revealed initially for PS4. GT7 is a 1P studio; I thought this discussion was hinging on Japanese third-party developers/publishers? Even so, it's not really a "Japanese-y" kind of game the way most people look at this when discussing Japanese support.
Project Awakening was a announced as a PlayStation 4 exclusive and their developers are Cygames, who later signed a 3 ways deal with Kadowaka and Sony which I don't see why Kadokawa and Sony would sign it if they would be making vaporware. AAA from companies you hate aren't vaporware, they are games that require time to be developed.

Yes, GT7 is a first party game. The discusion was about Sony being doomed because Switch dominates the Japanese top selling boxed game charts and console sales in Japan and if Sony abandoned Japanese game development and Japanese gamers.

My point is that in the last year or so and in the next year or so PlayStation got and in the next year or so will get a good amount of good Japanese exclusive games, as they did until now. That Sony didn't stop supporting PS with Japanese gamers or devs since they have been and will continue providing many Japanese exclusives in addition to the Japanese multiplatform games and Japanese friendly western games.

And that obviously they aren't doomed because they have been beating many worldwide gaming history records for console platform holders these years with PS4 and PS5 in terms of things like revenue generated, amount of games sold for a console and fastest selling console, and that Japan is only a part of the worldwide market and having another console above in that country doesn't affect them on continue getting worldwide historycal records.

It's arguable the reason most of these games aren't coming to Switch is due to technical restraints. While some Western devs have shown they are willing to scale games thought impossible to run on Switch to run on the system (or just stream the game on the platform even), that isn't the case with the majority of Japanese third-party devs seems like. So it's native port or bust for them. I expect this to no longer be an issue with Super Switch/Switch 2, however, especially if it incorporates DLSS technology and has baseline specs roughly on par with the Steam Deck.
I don't know which hardware will have the Switch successor. I assume it will be released in 2 or 3 years, that will be more powerful than Switch and that they will want to keep it at a similar pricing than Switch while selling it at a profit, they won't go as expensive as Steam Deck.

I assume that Steam Deck specs will get cheaper over years, but not sure if in 2 or 3 years will drop enough to sell it at 350 and still having a profit. So probably will be less powerful. And not sure if they will move to Zen/RDNA or if they will continue with Nvidia to keep full BC.

Considering at that point it would not be too far removed from a Series S, and at least as capable as a Steam Deck, considering many 3P releases are getting very solid scaled ports to Series S and reportedly running very good on Steam Deck, I don't expect games to suddenly worsen in factors of scalability for "reasons" when engines seem to be trending towards more scalability/flexibility, not less, regardless of increasing technical demands of games over the next several years.
PC games are designed to be scaled and Steam Deck has modern hardware so won't have any issues with it. Series S uses modern hardare too, same family than Series X, so it's easy to scale down specially considering games are crossgen and these games are scaled down way beyond Series S.

Switch is different, because it's way less powerful than Steam Deck or Series S, uses a way older hardware family and has way less ram, plus devs and engines are more used to work with the tech available on PC, SteamDeck, Xbox and PS which are of the same type. With time and money is possible to scale down anything to Switch, or even to Game Boy. The thing is the time and budget required to scale games down and to do it in a way it runs decently in that hardware and that the game didn't get toned down too much to fit there and still feel good.

Nintendo isn't one I can necessarily explain for but I'm sure you might be underplaying the degree of Japanese exclusives they got, considering they practically own the Japanese market at this time and will pretty much continue so for the foreseeable near future.

This is more a guessing game and fantasy wishlist for exclusive content but even from what you just mention here some of these aren't as probable as you may think. I wouldn't be surprised if Vanillaware's next game is PS exclusive (though there's a strong chance it could come to Switch as well). Persona 6 is even less probable considering what we've seen Microsoft do with SEGA in getting the Yakuza series on GamePass and ensuring future Yakuza installments come Day-and-Date to their platforms (and they will likely also continue to support PC with ports).

Considering Atlus is owned by SEGA, and even games like Dragon Quest have now gotten ports to Xbox platforms, at the very least there's a good chance the next Persona could launch on PC Day-and-Date or not very far after. Considering Microsoft's close relationship with SEGA I'm expecting they've probably been negotiating about getting Persona Day-and-Date on their Xbox platforms, as well.
I only mentioned some of the recent good Sony Japanese exclusives I remember and some of the announced ones that should be releasing somewhere soon to show they have a fair amount of Japanese exclusives. Which I think are more than the MS and Nintendo ones. But more than a comparision was to highlight that is false that Sony abandoned Japan.

Regarding future unannounced games yes, it's a guesslist. I was mentioning some examples of teams who traditionally released PlayStation exclusive games that after their previous PS exclusive they may be working in another one even if they didn't announce it because still aren't ready. As a way to say that in addition to the announced exclusives there must be more coming but still aren't announced because their teams are still working on them. For sure, if they don't have an exclusive deal with Sony some of the games I mentioned there could go multi, or got a Xbox or Switch port. Or even moneyhatted by Nintendo or MS to become their console exclusive.

As budgets get higher every generation, devs need more revenue to get profit. So it's more likely to see former exclusives go multi or ported to more systems. At least to PC.

Yeah, this did happen, but that could literally be anything. It's not like Microsoft and Nintendo don't have studio firms concentrated on bringing more Japanese 2nd-party games to their platforms, either. All three are doing this.
Yes, Nintendo and MS has people in charge of 2nd party games. When I ment XDEV was hiring to produce more 2nd party games made in Japan and in the rest of Asia it was to highlight that it wasn't just empty words from Jimbo and Hermen when mentioned they wanted to make games in these regions and grow there.

Isn't this like a 2% stake in Kadokawa Publishing? Again, you're trying to draw a correlation here without pertinent, current proof. The Kadokawa thing could also be related to anime licensing for dub releases in the West based on manga published by Kadokawa.
Kadokawa gave a 2% of its company to Sony and 2% of CyberAgent/CyGames as part of a 3 ways deal where Sony and CyGames would help Kadokawa bring their games and animes to a more global audience since until now they were too focused on Japan only.

Their deal in addition to mention games also specified both console and mobile games (Cygames is very successful in Asia regarding mobile games).

I think it's pretty obvious that Kadokawa wanted Sony to help them the western audience via Crunchyroll, Funimation and Sony Pictures for the anime, in consoles with SIE/PlayStation for the console games and CyGames for the mobile games. And I assume that if Sony will help them highlighting their games in the store, their youtube channel, PlayStation Blog, their social media, maybe extra marketing channels and maybe even publishing and distributing their games won't be for Switch exclusive games.

From Software has a long tradition of releasing PlayStation exclusive game since PS1, and Kadokawa itself and its other studios other than From also has a long tradition of PlayStation exclusives since PS1. So I assume it's fair to think Sony will ask them at least console exclusivity in exchange for their help. Or at least a 2nd party From Soft game once are free after Elder Ring.

The deal is farily recent, Kadokawa may have pending deals to release like Elder Ring and games need time to be developed and may need some time or paperwork or organize this collaboration, so I assume we'll have to wait to see the first results of this deal. Since the deal Kadokawa announced this PS4/PS5 game but it could be something that already was planned to be exclusive before the deal.

Nick also talked a lot about Microsoft having an "acquisition season" on several podcasts leading up to their E3, and nothing happened in that regard. Though TBF, things might've happened behind-the-scenes in one way or another that haven't been revealed yet, but I think their recent-ish financial calling would've shown some indication that a recent acquisition or two happened. Maybe it did and I didn't pay attention tho.

I already commented on the Arc/Sony stuff when that rumor first broke out; it's not an unreasonable one and there's a lot that Sony could do with a studio like that, not just with Guilty Gear (maybe license an anime for it, or a 2D-style JRPG with GG fighting mechanics) but maybe in doing another anime-style fighter with an anime IP Sony owns Western licensing rights to (as long as it's not High Guardian Spice :/).

That said, it's still in the "acquisition" territory and if that does come from Nick (tho with the Iki stuff I think it was either him or Dealer Gaming, another person deep into the Xbox side of rumors IMO), he doesn't have a good track record with acquisition-related rumors apparently 🤷‍♂️
I don't remember the name of the guy who I said mentioning the ARC rumor. But I think it makes a lot of sense:
-Have a long tradition of PlayStation exclusives since the PS1
-Recently have been very successful with Dragon Ball FighterZ and Guilty Gear Strive
-Isn't a big studio and doesn't have super huge IPs, so must be cheap
-Even if they are small, they work in 2 or 3 games at the same time and release games pretty quickly, must be pretty profitable
-Sony now has a lot of anime IPs, anime streaming apps, and the teal with Kadokawa where Kadokawa wants help to bring their IPs to the world, so a studio specialized on anime games would be a great it
-Sony made a lot of efforts supporting FGC eSports with online tournaments, related features and even buying EVO. something weird considering they don't have a fighting game, so a fighting game studio would be a good fit
-Fighting game genre grew a lot this generation and the previous one. And now League of Legends and Dungon Fighter (the top 2 top grossing PC games worldwide during the last decade) will get soon a fighting game, so these massive IPs will grow the genre even more
-These two massive IPs are specially big in Asia, market where Sony wants to expand
-Guess who is developing the Dungeon Fighter fighting game: ARC System Works

I never said Sony WOULDN'T have Japanese exclusives, I just said they will most likely have less of them, whether they be timed or full. The Microsoft and Nintendo they are up against this time are not the weak platform holders they were up against from 2013 - 2017, when they got a lot of the software presence for PS4 established during that time frame (most things we've been seeing since are essentially payoffs for investments in that four-year time period).
In recent years many traditionally 3rd party exclusives went multi or at least console exclusive (released in PC) instead of full exclusive because budgets rise too much compared to the revenue generated by the games, so they need to expand. For this same reasons 3rd party also prefer timed exclusive instead of full exclusives, and 1st party also prefer them because are way less expensive to moneyhat and less risky for them than full exclusives.

So Nintendo, Sony and MS have been moving from full 3rd party exclusives to mostly timed console exclusives or at least console exclusives. And some former 3rd party exclusives became multi. We saw this from the 3 console makers in the recent years and well see it more in the next generation.

In the AAA games we specially saw it during the PS360 gen because in addition to the rising cost issue that time the AAA market share was pretty split between MS and Sony, Sony wasn't clearly dominating as they did the other generations. At least in consoles during PS4 and PS5 seems things are going 2:1 and looking at the PS4 tie ratio and software revenue I'd say even more in game sales, difference that I assume with Gamepass may increase.

But as I shown Sony had many Japanese exclusive in the last half a year or so and will have in the next half a year or so. They have a good stream of them. If fact mostly all known big and small 3rd party Japanese companies have at least a PS4 exclusive during the life of the console.

Although I mean this mainly in terms of "natural" 3P exclusives (and I am talking 3P here, since 1P-wise Sony's only studios are Team Asobi and Polyphony Digital, and we know PD are GT-focused and rather...slow-ish...getting those out timely). You know, the kind that simply went with PlayStation for exclusivity seeing it as the defacto platform of choice and no other platform holders trying to bring those games to their platform (and the devs/pubs not seeing PC as a viable platform).
Yes, in addition to moneyhatted exclusives some 3rd party games become PlayStation exclusives because PlayStation is the best selling home console in the market: the one with the biggest worldwide userbase so with the biggest amount of potential sales. And maybe they don't have the resources or time to release it in more platforms and have to choose one, so unless moneyhatted they choose the one with more consoles sold.

But they still moneyhat exclusives, and if Jimbo said they will have more exclusives on PS5 than in their previous consoles, it's not only because they will grow their amount of 1st and 2nd party projects, it's because they signed a shit ton of 3rd party exclusives for the coming years, because always the big majority of PlayStation exclusives are 3rd party.

I think those days are more or less done for PlayStation, especially if Nintendo continues to be strong and brings out a Switch 2/Super Switch that's technologically competent (at least when compared to the Steam Deck), and Microsoft continues to make moves similar to what they've done with companies like SEGA in getting more Japanese content to GamePass (and by virtue, Xbox platforms and potentially PC).
PlayStation generates way more revenue than Nintendo or Xbox, PS4 is the console that sold more games in gaming history (over 1600 million) and is the (close) 2nd best selling console ever on its almost 8th year launch aligned and PS5 until now has the best launch any console ever had in gaming history improving the record set by PS4 and very likely will crush the related records once they solve the chips issue.

So no, these days are far from being done.

However, if Sony starts to moneyhat more of those games for timed/full exclusivity, or (preferably) initiates co-development of new 2P games with certain 3P Japanese studios, then they can retain a decent deal of such games as platform exclusives, maybe. That said, it'd be at the expense of hundreds of millions (over the course of the generation) doing such, whereas even with PS4, let alone PS3 or especially PS2 and PS1, many of those games would've literally just defaulted as PlayStation exclusives without much money rom Sony to make them so (tho I do stress many, not all; with PS1 for example and particularly with Western games (but also some Japanese ones) Sony did start doling out for exclusivity contracts when they saw the opportunity around 1997, after the trajectory for Saturn an N64 became clear).

It's not going to be like that anymore. And ultimately, that's for the best.
Yes, for the budget reason I mentioned before many former Sony, MS and Nintendo 3rd party exclusives went or will go multi. Or were full exclusives and will become console exclusive or timed console exclusives. Other ones will be moneyhatted by MS or Nintendo to go multi or become their (full, console or timed console) exclusives.

And Sony will moneyhat many (some full, some console, some timed console) 3rd party exclusives in addition to grow their 1st and 2nd party lineup. Because like MS and Nintendo they always moneyhatted exclusives and if Jimbo said they will have more exclusives in PS5 than ever is because he signed them, which means they moneyhatted them.

This is why it's good for them to have giant revenues, they can reinvest them back to secure more games.
 

ChuckeRearmed

Member
Jan 31, 2018
2,549
2,520
425
You mean console games right? Because its not like none portable Nintendo consoles do well in Japan apart from the Wii since the Snes
What? I said that Playstation has been on decline in Japan since PS2. What it has to do with Nintendo?

Nintendo found that weird niche in portable-home gaming - for now - but I do think that PC and mobile will still win in the end. And even with Switch, Nintendo did not reach DS level (due to strong mobile growth that ate away the same market).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Kokoloko85

Kokoloko85

Member
Sep 26, 2019
4,094
5,141
475
What? I said that Playstation has been on decline in Japan since PS2. What it has to do with Nintendo?

Nintendo found that weird niche in portable-home gaming - for now - but I do think that PC and mobile will still win in the end. And even with Switch, Nintendo did not reach DS level (due to strong mobile growth that ate away the same market).

I mixed reading your comment and someone elses, my mistake.
What kind of data is there for PC gaming increasing in Japan?

Mobile gaming for sure, but I hope traditional portable/console gaming stays for alot longer in Japan
 

ChuckeRearmed

Member
Jan 31, 2018
2,549
2,520
425
What kind of data is there for PC gaming increasing in Japan?
Not sure, I remember some discussions on reddit from couple of years ago but no stats. Basically children and elderly prefer Nintendo, when people become adults they switch to PC. But it was before / in the beginning of advent of Switch.

The general worldwide trend is growing mobile and PC market.
 

The Shepard

Member
Jan 7, 2018
1,111
1,616
570
Sony should once again, dump hundreds of millions of dollars into something that just doesn’t make money for the 3rd time in a row? Handheld market is dominated by phones and tablets, Nintendo is the exception.

It would be a portable ps4 and be a ps4 Pro whilst docked. Don't have to support it with exclusive games as all ps4 (digital) games would be playable.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Kokoloko85

Hendrick's

Member
Jan 7, 2014
9,486
16,672
995
Capcom's original target was to sell 2 million copies on its first fiscal year and missed it selling 1.4M instead. If it would have been a financial disaster they would have stopped supporting it with new paid and free DLC and new game updates as they did with Marvel vs Capcom Infinite. Even if didn't reach their target it was enough for Capcom (combined with DLC sales, Sony's moneyhat, merchandising, marketing deals etc) to continue releasing DLC for it achieving what Ono mentioned back in 2016 around its release of 'if it gets enough player support we'd like to keep supporting the game until at least 2020' (it has been so successful that it will get its last DLC at the end of 2021 and will have CPT/Capcom Cup until 2022).

For Capcom it has been a financial success not only now, but also a couple of years after release when they highlighted it as a success story to their investors in their financial Integrated Report 2018 (financial yearly report for FY2017) explaining how they made the comeback reworking their server stuff, fixing other stuff and adding user requested stuff plus the support from eSports.

It sold until now 5.8M (as I remember sold 300K units in the last quearter), which means the 9th best selling Capcom ever and 2nd best selling Capcom fighting game project ever for consoles and PC with only SF2 for SNES 500K units above it and even put Capcom at the Tokyo Olympics. Sure, it gets discounts and price cuts. So what? Mostly every game in the world excluding the Nintendo ones gets them.

And yes being a Game as a Service I'd assume a good chunk of its revenue comes from DLC. It's revenue for the game, like the one from the sales, the one from the moneyhat, the one from merchandising, the one from marketing deals with external brands like Redbull, the one from eSports etc. If you don't like it it's your issue. We don't know the amount of revenue it generated or which percentage from each revenue channel but we know it's one of the best selling Capcom games ever, that it sold a shit ton of DLC, that it got money from Sony, that got multiple marketing deals etc. And yes, it got big discounts as any other Capcom (or from other companies excluding Nintendo) game gets.

It didn't achieve its goal for its first fiscal year but ended being a success and still sells and generates money. Very likely will end selling over 6 million copies.


So what? They are PlayStation exclusive games. Most of the PS userbase is still and will still be on PS4 so obviously they also release their games as crossgen because this is a business and they release games to make money, not to please kiddy fanboys who get angry because the players who still didn't upgrade to next gen are also getting their game.

In addition to this, devs didn't get the early PS5 specs until 2018 and the full specs until 2019, an with the console releasing late 2020 they didn't have time to make AAA games designed from scratch for the new console. As happens every generation the first games are mostly games originally made for the previous generation that got adapted to the new machine and still didn't learn to take full advantage of the new hardware and features because they need time and experience to do so. And this is why games don't take advantage of new machines until their 2nd or 3rd generation games that are released during mid generataion.


I meant 1st, 2nd and 3rd party standalone Japanese PlayStation (at least timed console) exclusive games. Titles that appear as a game in the store, that are made in Japan and at least during a fair amount of time only will be available on PlayStation and not in other consoles.

Some made by Sony, some made by others but moneyhatted by Sony, some that their 3rd party creators decided to make it exclusive with no Sony involvement because they thought it was their best business decision.


Project Awakening was a announced as a PlayStation 4 exclusive and their developers are Cygames, who later signed a 3 ways deal with Kadowaka and Sony which I don't see why Kadokawa and Sony would sign it if they would be making vaporware. AAA from companies you hate aren't vaporware, they are games that require time to be developed.

Yes, GT7 is a first party game. The discusion was about Sony being doomed because Switch dominates the Japanese top selling boxed game charts and console sales in Japan and if Sony abandoned Japanese game development and Japanese gamers.

My point is that in the last year or so and in the next year or so PlayStation got and in the next year or so will get a good amount of good Japanese exclusive games, as they did until now. That Sony didn't stop supporting PS with Japanese gamers or devs since they have been and will continue providing many Japanese exclusives in addition to the Japanese multiplatform games and Japanese friendly western games.

And that obviously they aren't doomed because they have been beating many worldwide gaming history records for console platform holders these years with PS4 and PS5 in terms of things like revenue generated, amount of games sold for a console and fastest selling console, and that Japan is only a part of the worldwide market and having another console above in that country doesn't affect them on continue getting worldwide historycal records.


I don't know which hardware will have the Switch successor. I assume it will be released in 2 or 3 years, that will be more powerful than Switch and that they will want to keep it at a similar pricing than Switch while selling it at a profit, they won't go as expensive as Steam Deck.

I assume that Steam Deck specs will get cheaper over years, but not sure if in 2 or 3 years will drop enough to sell it at 350 and still having a profit. So probably will be less powerful. And not sure if they will move to Zen/RDNA or if they will continue with Nvidia to keep full BC.


PC games are designed to be scaled and Steam Deck has modern hardware so won't have any issues with it. Series S uses modern hardare too, same family than Series X, so it's easy to scale down specially considering games are crossgen and these games are scaled down way beyond Series S.

Switch is different, because it's way less powerful than Steam Deck or Series S, uses a way older hardware family and has way less ram, plus devs and engines are more used to work with the tech available on PC, SteamDeck, Xbox and PS which are of the same type. With time and money is possible to scale down anything to Switch, or even to Game Boy. The thing is the time and budget required to scale games down and to do it in a way it runs decently in that hardware and that the game didn't get toned down too much to fit there and still feel good.




I only mentioned some of the recent good Sony Japanese exclusives I remember and some of the announced ones that should be releasing somewhere soon to show they have a fair amount of Japanese exclusives. Which I think are more than the MS and Nintendo ones. But more than a comparision was to highlight that is false that Sony abandoned Japan.

Regarding future unannounced games yes, it's a guesslist. I was mentioning some examples of teams who traditionally released PlayStation exclusive games that after their previous PS exclusive they may be working in another one even if they didn't announce it because still aren't ready. As a way to say that in addition to the announced exclusives there must be more coming but still aren't announced because their teams are still working on them. For sure, if they don't have an exclusive deal with Sony some of the games I mentioned there could go multi, or got a Xbox or Switch port. Or even moneyhatted by Nintendo or MS to become their console exclusive.

As budgets get higher every generation, devs need more revenue to get profit. So it's more likely to see former exclusives go multi or ported to more systems. At least to PC.


Yes, Nintendo and MS has people in charge of 2nd party games. When I ment XDEV was hiring to produce more 2nd party games made in Japan and in the rest of Asia it was to highlight that it wasn't just empty words from Jimbo and Hermen when mentioned they wanted to make games in these regions and grow there.


Kadokawa gave a 2% of its company to Sony and 2% of CyberAgent/CyGames as part of a 3 ways deal where Sony and CyGames would help Kadokawa bring their games and animes to a more global audience since until now they were too focused on Japan only.

Their deal in addition to mention games also specified both console and mobile games (Cygames is very successful in Asia regarding mobile games).

I think it's pretty obvious that Kadokawa wanted Sony to help them the western audience via Crunchyroll, Funimation and Sony Pictures for the anime, in consoles with SIE/PlayStation for the console games and CyGames for the mobile games. And I assume that if Sony will help them highlighting their games in the store, their youtube channel, PlayStation Blog, their social media, maybe extra marketing channels and maybe even publishing and distributing their games won't be for Switch exclusive games.

From Software has a long tradition of releasing PlayStation exclusive game since PS1, and Kadokawa itself and its other studios other than From also has a long tradition of PlayStation exclusives since PS1. So I assume it's fair to think Sony will ask them at least console exclusivity in exchange for their help. Or at least a 2nd party From Soft game once are free after Elder Ring.

The deal is farily recent, Kadokawa may have pending deals to release like Elder Ring and games need time to be developed and may need some time or paperwork or organize this collaboration, so I assume we'll have to wait to see the first results of this deal. Since the deal Kadokawa announced this PS4/PS5 game but it could be something that already was planned to be exclusive before the deal.


I don't remember the name of the guy who I said mentioning the ARC rumor. But I think it makes a lot of sense:
-Have a long tradition of PlayStation exclusives since the PS1
-Recently have been very successful with Dragon Ball FighterZ and Guilty Gear Strive
-Isn't a big studio and doesn't have super huge IPs, so must be cheap
-Even if they are small, they work in 2 or 3 games at the same time and release games pretty quickly, must be pretty profitable
-Sony now has a lot of anime IPs, anime streaming apps, and the teal with Kadokawa where Kadokawa wants help to bring their IPs to the world, so a studio specialized on anime games would be a great it
-Sony made a lot of efforts supporting FGC eSports with online tournaments, related features and even buying EVO. something weird considering they don't have a fighting game, so a fighting game studio would be a good fit
-Fighting game genre grew a lot this generation and the previous one. And now League of Legends and Dungon Fighter (the top 2 top grossing PC games worldwide during the last decade) will get soon a fighting game, so these massive IPs will grow the genre even more
-These two massive IPs are specially big in Asia, market where Sony wants to expand
-Guess who is developing the Dungeon Fighter fighting game: ARC System Works


In recent years many traditionally 3rd party exclusives went multi or at least console exclusive (released in PC) instead of full exclusive because budgets rise too much compared to the revenue generated by the games, so they need to expand. For this same reasons 3rd party also prefer timed exclusive instead of full exclusives, and 1st party also prefer them because are way less expensive to moneyhat and less risky for them than full exclusives.

So Nintendo, Sony and MS have been moving from full 3rd party exclusives to mostly timed console exclusives or at least console exclusives. And some former 3rd party exclusives became multi. We saw this from the 3 console makers in the recent years and well see it more in the next generation.

In the AAA games we specially saw it during the PS360 gen because in addition to the rising cost issue that time the AAA market share was pretty split between MS and Sony, Sony wasn't clearly dominating as they did the other generations. At least in consoles during PS4 and PS5 seems things are going 2:1 and looking at the PS4 tie ratio and software revenue I'd say even more in game sales, difference that I assume with Gamepass may increase.

But as I shown Sony had many Japanese exclusive in the last half a year or so and will have in the next half a year or so. They have a good stream of them. If fact mostly all known big and small 3rd party Japanese companies have at least a PS4 exclusive during the life of the console.


Yes, in addition to moneyhatted exclusives some 3rd party games become PlayStation exclusives because PlayStation is the best selling home console in the market: the one with the biggest worldwide userbase so with the biggest amount of potential sales. And maybe they don't have the resources or time to release it in more platforms and have to choose one, so unless moneyhatted they choose the one with more consoles sold.

But they still moneyhat exclusives, and if Jimbo said they will have more exclusives on PS5 than in their previous consoles, it's not only because they will grow their amount of 1st and 2nd party projects, it's because they signed a shit ton of 3rd party exclusives for the coming years, because always the big majority of PlayStation exclusives are 3rd party.


PlayStation generates way more revenue than Nintendo or Xbox, PS4 is the console that sold more games in gaming history (over 1600 million) and is the (close) 2nd best selling console ever on its almost 8th year launch aligned and PS5 until now has the best launch any console ever had in gaming history improving the record set by PS4 and very likely will crush the related records once they solve the chips issue.

So no, these days are far from being done.


Yes, for the budget reason I mentioned before many former Sony, MS and Nintendo 3rd party exclusives went or will go multi. Or were full exclusives and will become console exclusive or timed console exclusives. Other ones will be moneyhatted by MS or Nintendo to go multi or become their (full, console or timed console) exclusives.

And Sony will moneyhat many (some full, some console, some timed console) 3rd party exclusives in addition to grow their 1st and 2nd party lineup. Because like MS and Nintendo they always moneyhatted exclusives and if Jimbo said they will have more exclusives in PS5 than ever is because he signed them, which means they moneyhatted them.

This is why it's good for them to have giant revenues, they can reinvest them back to secure more games.
Angry Your Name GIF by All The Anime — Anime Limited
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: Closer and Blond
Feb 23, 2010
2,242
27
870
Dully noted & looked it up myself and you are absolutely correct, according to Famitsu. It's indeed a far-cry from 23M+ PS2 sales. Yikes. I must have heard wrong, or may have heard of roughly-rounded up version.

Soon it could be like this when it comes to Switch vs PS5, if it's already not the case...

Could it really be like that, though? Xbox consoles have sold abysmally in Japan, PlayStation home consoles haven't sold anywhere close to as bad as they have. It's doubtful that the PS5 will sell that bad as well.