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GamingBolt: Sony and PS5's performance in Japan is becoming a grave concern
- Thread starter Marty-McFly
- Start date
- Business
NonPhixion
Member
What are we concerned about, op?
Umbasaborne
Banned
Its no surprise really. The ps5’ both models are large and somewhat cumbersome. Add to that sonys renewed focus on block buster western appealing exclusives, and its easy to see why the switch is taking off in japan in a way the ps5 simply cant. In many ways the switch is like an ideal game console for a japanese player. It can be both a home console and a hand held.
Umbasaborne
Banned
Oh i guess he didnt read the neogaf rules which state “anyone who says anything even slightly negative about playstation is a concern troll, sony can do no wrong and we wont tolerate it any bad news about them”
NonPhixion
Member
Sure. But I was just asking what his actual concern was? Care to share yours?
Umbasaborne
Banned
I already shared my take, but fan boys snidly trying to accuse people of “concern trolling” to silence negative news about their favorite brands has become endemic on this site.
Blond
Banned
Yeah, so great they’re approaching Sony’s Japanese launch weekend of 100,00JP units in 11 months and still selling below PS4 on a daily basis.
Sony should once again, dump hundreds of millions of dollars into something that just doesn’t make money for the 3rd time in a row? Handheld market is dominated by phones and tablets, Nintendo is the exception.
Shadowstar39
Member
Not surprising. Been a huge sony fan since ps1.... with their abandonning the base for the fringe or Restera types and wanting to censor games... well it left a bad taste in my mouth. Also their shitty ps5 rollout where they launched it a day before schedule for pre-order and I still can't get one. I am at the point where i will just wait.
Finally got my 3060ti and have a switch, which I got a crap ton of good games on.
I knew when Disgaea came out exclusively on Switch there was an issue over there. NIS has been Sony exclusive since early ps2.
Finally got my 3060ti and have a switch, which I got a crap ton of good games on.
I knew when Disgaea came out exclusively on Switch there was an issue over there. NIS has been Sony exclusive since early ps2.
Venom Snake
Member
Sony's drift from the home market is a purely business decision. They simply reached for a larger, more profitable western market, but as a result, they are forced to allocate most of their resources there.
Of course, this may change gradually, but in the initial sales phase, it is more economically viable to stay on established ground and focus on the main target audience.
When the new Monster Hunter on ps5 comes out, the Japanese will be standing in kilometer-long lines to buy one.
Of course, this may change gradually, but in the initial sales phase, it is more economically viable to stay on established ground and focus on the main target audience.
When the new Monster Hunter on ps5 comes out, the Japanese will be standing in kilometer-long lines to buy one.
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yurinka
Member
As of the end of June:2:1 userbase. Where is the mystery? A game which interests 50% of the Switch userbase need to interest 100% of the PS4 + PS5 userbase to sell as much.
-Switch 89.04M consoles
-PS4+PS5 126.5M consoles
Not 2:1
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CamHostage
Member
But wasn't that true for basically every Game Boy and DS?
Nintendo consolidated its platform slate down to "one pillar" (they're still in the mobile market, but reportedly they're drawing back from that after no breakthrough productions.) We used to have to split the conversation (or, more realistically, we'd ignore the handheld market as "not the real thing" even though Nintendo was always a force if everything was added together,) now it's 1v1v1.
No, unfortunately.
It's still a territory with a strong physical collection market and generally good economy, but the Japanese game market has been on a downswing for over a decade. (It rebounded in the last few years because of the success of the Switch itself, actually.)
It's one of the reasons why PlayStation (and to a degree Xbox) have been trying to gain a foothold in China. That's a territory of potential expansion. Japan has a great history of gaming culture and consumption (and is especially good business if you can corner its market,) but its not a sector of growth for games, particularly home console games.
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009EspadaSageJay
Member
yep
009EspadaSageJay
Member
Tales of Arise: multiplatI see Gamingbolt hasn't stopped courting console warriors with ludicrous "articles."
Oh my god! Franchises that were Playstation exclusives before now are going multiplatform and the Switch is getting them!
But what about franchises that were Nintendo exclusives before and now are going multiplatform like Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water? It's funny that they cite Atelier, but not this that comes from the same company? Talk about citing only what supports your misguided point. What about Ace Attorney? Inazuma Eleven? Yo-Kai Watch?
Oh my god! Disgaea 6 is Switch exclusive!
Not in Japan. Weren't we talking about Japan?
There are still a ton of Japanese games that aren't launched on Switch at all, like Relayer, Tales of Arise, King of Fighters XV, Scarlet nexus, Final Fantasy VII Remake, The Idolmaster, Sword Art Online: Alicization Lycoris, Code Vein, Guilty Gear Strive, Oneechanbara, and many, many others.
The simple reality is that Japanese mid-tier developers haven't suddenly started to love Nintendo and hate PlayStation. They have simply understood that going multiplatform means more money, in both directions. And for many, it's still a lot more convenient to go multiplatform for PS, PC, and Xbox leaving the Switch aside because downporting stuff for the weakest console isn't cheap.
But this isn't news. It's a poor website that has been pushing console warring flamebait for a decade trying to get some clicks by posting a poorly informed and misinformative "opinion" based on skewed points.
You may want to check a dictionary for the meaning of "news" because opinion pieces don't fall in that category.
King of Fighters XV: multiplat
Scarlet nexus: multiplat
Final Fantasy VII Remake: ps4
The Idolmaster: multiplat and the 1st game was a xbox 360 exclusive
Sword Art Online: Alicization Lycoris: multiplatand on switch
Code Vein: multiplat
Guilty Gear Strive: the pc player base in japan is higher then the ps4 and ps5 audience combined and thats before the arcade port.
Oneechanbara: switch, xbox and pc
So you list about 5 multiplat games and 1 exclusive
Its still early days, the full effects of whats happening with the dire software situation on the PS5 will be felt next year and future pipelines.
Right now most third parties outside of a few hold-outs have embraced multiplat existence, but if PS5 continues to perform at this level it won't be financially viable for many of the smaller publishers. What is happening at Konami, Capcom, Marvelous, Koei & Nippon Ichi with their record profits will be something other Japanese third parties are acutely aware of and cannot overlook. With the Switch entering it's software peak in Japan next year; I'm guessing it will become more common place in 2022 for Japanese third party games to receive late ports to the PS5 - which is counter to the Bandai strategy of releasing late ports to the Switch
It's too bad for them that China is closer to Japan than California culturally, so as Japan's third parties drift towards the Switch it will naturally become more attractive for Chinese consumers as well. Last year South Korea's software market was even more lopsided than Japan in favor of the Switch and things are trending in a similar way in Taiwan - albeit PS titles still manage to chart there once every few months.
Ring Fit & New Horizon demand led to huge growth in the region and it doesn't seem to be slowing down this year
I think it's presumptuous to think that they will be able to expand into China which is the leading mobile market in the World while the design philosophy of the PS5 persists. The same issues they are having in Japan will be present in China and much of East Asia and will be further effected by the future support Switch is likely to get from Japanese Third Parties for whom the East Asian region is a major opportunity for growth.
The second issue with China is that most of Sony's 1st Party efforts will never get through the government regulation, its the same folks that banned New Horizon and haven't allowed Breath of the Wild, Splatoon or Smash into the country yet; Switch has still only around 10 1st party titles officially released in the country since the official launch in 2019.
Right now most third parties outside of a few hold-outs have embraced multiplat existence, but if PS5 continues to perform at this level it won't be financially viable for many of the smaller publishers. What is happening at Konami, Capcom, Marvelous, Koei & Nippon Ichi with their record profits will be something other Japanese third parties are acutely aware of and cannot overlook. With the Switch entering it's software peak in Japan next year; I'm guessing it will become more common place in 2022 for Japanese third party games to receive late ports to the PS5 - which is counter to the Bandai strategy of releasing late ports to the Switch
It's too bad for them that China is closer to Japan than California culturally, so as Japan's third parties drift towards the Switch it will naturally become more attractive for Chinese consumers as well. Last year South Korea's software market was even more lopsided than Japan in favor of the Switch and things are trending in a similar way in Taiwan - albeit PS titles still manage to chart there once every few months.
Ring Fit & New Horizon demand led to huge growth in the region and it doesn't seem to be slowing down this year
I think it's presumptuous to think that they will be able to expand into China which is the leading mobile market in the World while the design philosophy of the PS5 persists. The same issues they are having in Japan will be present in China and much of East Asia and will be further effected by the future support Switch is likely to get from Japanese Third Parties for whom the East Asian region is a major opportunity for growth.
The second issue with China is that most of Sony's 1st Party efforts will never get through the government regulation, its the same folks that banned New Horizon and haven't allowed Breath of the Wild, Splatoon or Smash into the country yet; Switch has still only around 10 1st party titles officially released in the country since the official launch in 2019.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
Uh, can't really say Japan is their native territory when their headquarters is in California
Anyway, Japan is a shrinking market for Sony and outside of maybe Square-Enix I think they'll have a hard time courting 3P Japanese AAA exclusives going forward. Nintendo is dominating that market with the Switch and Microsoft stands to make gains with GamePass & Xcloud for mobile in that type of market, plus PC is becoming increasingly viable.
They may still get a few Japanese AAA timed exclusives but they'll be ever-shrinking windows nothing near like what we're seeing with FFVII Remake for example. I also expect IP like Persona and Street Fighter to go multiplat not just with PC but also Xbox Series and the Super Switch (if it actually comes out by late 2022 or early 2023). We've already seen IP that used to be completely exclusive to PS like Yakuza go multiplat, same for mainline Dragon Quest games, etc.
There's no foreseeable way I see that trend slowing down unless Sony starts acquiring some of those publishers like mad, and I strongly doubt that's going to happen, either.
Anyway, Japan is a shrinking market for Sony and outside of maybe Square-Enix I think they'll have a hard time courting 3P Japanese AAA exclusives going forward. Nintendo is dominating that market with the Switch and Microsoft stands to make gains with GamePass & Xcloud for mobile in that type of market, plus PC is becoming increasingly viable.
They may still get a few Japanese AAA timed exclusives but they'll be ever-shrinking windows nothing near like what we're seeing with FFVII Remake for example. I also expect IP like Persona and Street Fighter to go multiplat not just with PC but also Xbox Series and the Super Switch (if it actually comes out by late 2022 or early 2023). We've already seen IP that used to be completely exclusive to PS like Yakuza go multiplat, same for mainline Dragon Quest games, etc.
There's no foreseeable way I see that trend slowing down unless Sony starts acquiring some of those publishers like mad, and I strongly doubt that's going to happen, either.
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Jigsaah
Gold Member
I believe this is a generational shift happening. Younger people nowadays were raised on mobile devices. Have you ever had a friend who had a kid that was 8 years old and had his/her own iphone or ipad? Ok now think to when you were double that age and what did you have? At 16, I was clamoring for the Nintendo 64. For me it either a console or a handheld...rarely both. At 17, AOL was just catching fire and my high school's computer labs just integrated the internet into its computer labs. We were just raised differently.
I believe this is even more the case in terms of Japan. If you've ever been to Japan you'd see what I mean. The kids there have phones from kindergarten, it seems. People in Japan use mass transit way more than we do here. They spend a lot more time on the go on average. So small, mobile devices are just more convenient and smaller devices have long been the preference of Japanese gamers. If you add to this Kawaii culture in Japan...Nintendo embodies that, not Sony.
Nintendo is small, mobile, kawaii. Games are iconic and are accessible to a wide audience.
Sony is huge, not innately mobile and of debatable aesthetic. Most of their games are much more serious in nature.
The question becomes, well why did Sony do so well in the PS1 to PS3 eras? What changed? Does Americanization have some affect? Is the focus on big blockbusters causing Japanese gamers to focus on something else?
I believe this is even more the case in terms of Japan. If you've ever been to Japan you'd see what I mean. The kids there have phones from kindergarten, it seems. People in Japan use mass transit way more than we do here. They spend a lot more time on the go on average. So small, mobile devices are just more convenient and smaller devices have long been the preference of Japanese gamers. If you add to this Kawaii culture in Japan...Nintendo embodies that, not Sony.
Nintendo is small, mobile, kawaii. Games are iconic and are accessible to a wide audience.
Sony is huge, not innately mobile and of debatable aesthetic. Most of their games are much more serious in nature.
The question becomes, well why did Sony do so well in the PS1 to PS3 eras? What changed? Does Americanization have some affect? Is the focus on big blockbusters causing Japanese gamers to focus on something else?
Derktron
Banned
justiceiro
Marlboro: Other M
"Great concern"... For who?
Chinpoko_Master
Member
Is there really much Sony can do to change their fortunes in Japan? There isn't much of a market for another portable system like the Vita, and moneyhatting a bunch of exclusives doesn't sound like a feasible strategy so... what are they supposed to do?
I mean, I think the reason they "abandoned" Japan is because there isn't much they can do. Sony's not the juggernaut they used to be, they can't afford to burn a bunch of money like they did with the PS3 trying to make their platforms succeed.
I mean, I think the reason they "abandoned" Japan is because there isn't much they can do. Sony's not the juggernaut they used to be, they can't afford to burn a bunch of money like they did with the PS3 trying to make their platforms succeed.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
But 16 * 2 = 32, not 25, and you can't round up whole numbers like that
. Game sales don't mean nearly as much as people want them to think, same with console sales. SFV has sold ~ 6 million copies, but the game started going into discount within a year of its launch and has had multiple heavily-discounted sales promotions over the years.
You literally can't go 6,000,000 * 60 to try saying that's what SFV made in revenue, because it would be nowhere near accurate. Same can be said of most games tbh.
These two statements/events are not indicative of a correlation. We already see what their statement WRT more exclusives could be shaping up as: more Western small studio upstarts with industry vets (Jade Raymond, the CoD/Destiny guys, etc.) for more multiplayer-focused content.
That's what several of their announcements so far have trended towards.
SantaC
Member
Europe is bigger
bitbydeath
Member
Europe is a continent though, not a country.
If we compare countries it would go:
1. US
2. Japan
3. UK?
Followed by everyone else.
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MScarpa
Member
Is this a reference to Microsoft paying people to post good news about them??HAHAHA Almost as funny as people thinking the election was rigged. HAHAHA GTFO
Kokoloko85
Member
Yeah Gravity Rush 1&2, The last Guardian, Shen Mue 3, Nioh 1&2, Multiple Y’s games, Shadow of the Colossus, Multiple Tales games, Sakura wars, Trails of cold Steel, Persona 5, Disgaea, Monster Hunter World, Bloodborne Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Kingdom Hearts, Knack 1& 2, Multiple Yakuza titles are very much America cinematic blockbusters right?……. ( No there not lol ) Many which are exclusive to PS4
That list is not a small or unimpressive list of games. People keep mentioning Playstations blockbuster games, but they neglect they release game of the year winners and runner ups like Uncharted, TLOU, God of War, Spider-man, Ghost of Tsushima, Horizon and Bloodborne. And release games like the list I have above. Something the competition isnt doing.
Seriously PS4 had alot of Japanese centric titles. And probably the come back of JRPG’S which was missing during the PS3/360/Wii era.
Its very simple, Japan is interested in Handhelds, thats what it is. They don’t care much about console games as much
Because the same Japanese Market gave even less shits about the Wii U and they had alot of the same games as the Switch. I guarantee, if the Switch was a console and not a hybrid/handheld, the Japanese Market wouldnt care about it.
If Sony wants to gain the Japanese Market back, its not about what games they release, they need to release another handheld
Plus the PS5 has supply shortage
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MScarpa
Member
The irony in this post is INCREDIBLE!!
I still think a PS4 portable in a vita style handheld shell, just including the l2/r2, l3/r3 buttons is the way they should go.
First of all a lot of Japanese games are still being released on the PS4 and also not enough PS5’s are filling the demand in Japan. There’s also not that many enticing Japanese exclusives being released at the moment. All this really means is expect Japanese games to be released on PS4 for awhile.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Hahaha. Over the year or two Gamingbolt turning on the afterburners dragging PS5 through the mud. The same thing they did farther back with Xbox.
So shore up SEGA and buy exclusitivity back for Mon Hunter.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
PS5 will still get the most 3rd party support from Japan, these games sell better on PS as most Switch owners tend to buy more 1st party gamesTeam Asobi is maybe rebranded Japan Studio, but it is clear, they will make games that appeal to worldwide audience, not Japanese audience.
Gran Turismo isn't japanese targeted game either. Death's Stranding Director's Cut is PS4 game ported to PS5 and Kojima is rumored to be working with Xbox on his next game. FFVII Integrade is PS5 version of FFVII, Forspoken will be also available for PC
Look at partnerships Jimbo is making. They bought Nixxes to port their games to PC. The partnered with Haven Studios, Firewalk and Deviation Games and all of them would be western oriented games probably with live service aspects (at least Haven game)
Sooo. Yeah. Output for japanese gamers on PS5 will be even weaker then in PS4 generation. And I can't see how they will sell more PS5's then they sold PS4's
Fredrik
Member
The thread is about Japan, I think PS4+PS5 is ~10 mil total while Switch is at least twice that.
Marty-McFly
Banned
The fact people believe this is hilarious and shows how easily people can be swayed by PR. At best, Sony is under shipping in Japan because they know demand will be very limited.
By your logic we should see explosive growth in Japan at some point when the "shortages" are over. Is that what you're predicting?
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
This is partly do to the start of the new generation loss on every console soldWait what?
Nintendo
Nintendo Records Most Profitable Year Yet
Also naming 'Animal Crossing: New Horizons' as its highest-selling game of FY2020.hypebeast.com
Sony Playstation
Sony Corp Doubles Full-Year Net Income With Boost From Games, Music & Movie Units; Pictures Records $762M Profit
Sony Corp logged a record $10.7 billion in net income for fiscal 2020, a 101% increase over the previous year.deadline.com
That is not even close to the truth.
PS5 is now selling at a profit as of June so we'll see their revenue and profit margins go back up
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Also, Sony fans love downplaying Game Pass/Xcloud for whatever reasons they can come up with, yet never admit downplaying PS Now in hopes nobody brings it up. A competing service on a competing console is ripe to ripping, but a subscription service like PS Now where half the games are stream only (and 100% of games are stream only on PC) is a-ok.
Shadowstar39
Member
I mean they could of not censored and pissed off devs and customers. Stop pandering to the resetera types and just put out good games. None of this bs T&A censorship or uglifying/masculinizing women to please the radical crazies. We had actual JP devs complain about all of this.
If they could do that and still support their JP partners they could of at least had some 3rd party support. The fact is 3rd party made Sony and now they don't care.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Is Japan one of the largest video game markets for mobile and handhelds these days or console gaming?Yeah, who cares about the 2nd largest video game market in the world? Let's focus on UK physical sales
The answer to this is why PS5 is still doing more than fine
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PropellerEar
Member
US is 2nd largest gaming market(country) in the world.Yeah, who cares about the 2nd largest video game market in the world? Let's focus on UK physical sales
WitchHunter
Member
The angst/dizazter journalism. We have to collectively be afraid of something. Now Sony's wellbeing back at home.
WHAT WILL HAPPENZ? CATS GONNA FALL FROM THE SKY? PUGS GONNA DEVOUR PEOPLEZ IN DEIR SLEEPO?
WAT CANWE DO? BUY CANNED FOOD, LOTS? SEND THEM HELP SOMHOW?
WHAT WILL HAPPENZ? CATS GONNA FALL FROM THE SKY? PUGS GONNA DEVOUR PEOPLEZ IN DEIR SLEEPO?
WAT CANWE DO? BUY CANNED FOOD, LOTS? SEND THEM HELP SOMHOW?
Marty-McFly
Banned
We can't overlook the fact that Sony got beaten out of the handheld space and quit due to the struggles of Vita and the moves they made to further alienate the Japanese crowd with censorship and closing down Sony's Japan Studio. Sony would very much love to have this market back but the reality is they cannot feasibility compete against the Switch, and PS5 will be there worst showing in Japan ever.
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PropellerEar
Member
We need to be concerned, Jimbo might sudoku himself.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Sony Japan's offerings never really sold extremely well in Japan or in the states and the Vita days have been over for a while now
It's business as usual for Playstation, they'll get the great 3rd party support from Japan as always because of how many units the PS5 will sell
yurinka
Member
This is why I said 'almost twice' instead of 'twice'.But 16 * 2 = 32, not 25, and you can't round up whole numbers like that
The thing is that SFV will still be getting DLC almost 6 years after release, something that leads to think DLC sold a lot. In the monthly character usage rankings every time a new character was released it got in top usage positions, leading to think many people bought them. In addition to that, it's very frequent to see paid DLC stages, costumes or even colors when playing online. So I'm pretty confident that it not only sold well, but also must have generated a lot of money from DLC. And on top of that money, they also got the Sony moneyhat. And it also got plenty of marketing merchandising deals.
In fact, when it started the big comeback it had after the rocky launch SFV became the cover story of Capcom's yearly IR report for investors, and it was the year MHW debuted becoming their best selling games ever. Capcom must be very happy with it.
They said they will have more exclusives than ever. They said that want to have better relationship/strengthen bonds and more exclusives form Japanese teams. And said they are increasing their internal teams and planning to make acquisitions.
Everything may not be related but knowing that context, even if they signed these 3 western games but we also know that:
-PS5 got during its launch window Astro's Playroom, Demon's Souls (even if remade by westerns), Nioh Collection, FFVIIR Intergrade, Neptunia ReVerse or Guilty Gear Strive
-Games like Death Stranding Director's Cut, Ghostwire Tokyo, Babylon's Fall, Forspoken, GT7, Granblue Fantasy: Relink, Relayer (Kadokawa SRPG with mechas), Neptunia ReVerse, FFXVI or Project Awakening are coming soon most of them in the next half a year or so (plus others like Tales of Arise that aren't exclusive but won't available on Switch)
-Compare that to the output of Japanese exclusives from Nintendo or Microsoft during the same period
-Many more Japanese games may be working on PS exclusives but still didn't announce them because released their previous exclusive a yeear or two ago -or even more- and still aren't ready to show their next game. Examples could be Vanillaware, Persona 6 or (it's being developed in UE5) Dragon Quest XII
-After restructuring Team Asobi is hiring and XDEV is hiring for producing Japanese and Asia 2nd party games
-Sony signed the deal with Kadokawa, From Software's parent company. Both From and Kadokawa already made many PS exclusive games since PS1
-The guy who leaked the GoT Iki expansion also mentioned that Sony is negotiating the acquisition of Arc System Works
PS4 wasn't short of Japanese exclusives, and PS5 won't be short of Japanese exclusives.
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Marty-McFly
Banned
They'll continue to get the bigger games but the more niche Japanese titles that are currently on PS4 and Switch may be parting ways with Sony this generation.
Lupingosei
Banned
Maybe, but they don't have any of the big games from 2020 for 2021.
PropellerEar
Member
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Those devs from Japan are going to ignore the console where they most likely get their most sales? Not a chance
I'm on the PS5 store right now and there's already a ton of those same Japanese niche games
Marty-McFly
Banned
No, as of now Switch has been outselling the PlayStation brand for 3 years running and is doubling their sales this fiscal year WW.
Launch sales numbers are merely PR optics for who ships the most.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
We'll see but something tells me this holiday season will be huge for the PS5
You'll see an increase in sales from the already released PS5 titles too