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[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I still can't wrap my head around the conversation here.

Multiplayer games: 100% from PS5 revenue + 100% from PC revenue. Day and date maximizes profits.

Single player games: 100% from PS5 revenue + 5% from PC revenue. Delayed releases bring diminished profits.

PlayStation is fast tracking all their multiplayer centric studios to become their dominant studios unless this changes. I mean, I love it but most of y'all should hate it.

Aside Bungie and Polyphony Digital, Sony don't really have any MP-centric studios. Not anymore, anyhow.

Some like Guerrilla have shifted away from FPS games to single-player third-person games (Horizon). And others like Arrowhead, aren't actually 1P studios, but 3P studios.

What would be great, would be a cycle of GaaS-centric titles getting single-player story-driven side games where able (I don't think anyone would mind a Helldivers-based single-player AA side game with story beats inspired from the classic Starship Troopers film or other stuff like Total Recall even (same director)), and single-player games getting multiplayer (not necessarily GaaS-like) additional content in future updates like what they did for Ghosts of Tsushima. That stuff could be light live-service content with some additional cosmetics/weapons/skins etc. purchasable through MTX, but not full GaaS/online-centric titles (some could have local couch co-op and multiplayer for example).

That way it's not a matter of MP-centric or SP-centric studios "dominating" the production pipeline. They'd all have equal worth and value to the pipeline for gaming content.

 

[Mortisfacio]

This makes sense considering the server cap and over 70% of the cap has been on the steam concurrent users list.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Aside Bungie and Polyphony Digital, Sony don't really have any MP-centric studios. Not anymore, anyhow.

Some like Guerrilla have shifted away from FPS games to single-player third-person games (Horizon). And others like Arrowhead, aren't actually 1P studios, but 3P studios.

What would be great, would be a cycle of GaaS-centric titles getting single-player story-driven side games where able (I don't think anyone would mind a Helldivers-based single-player AA side game with story beats inspired from the classic Starship Troopers film or other stuff like Total Recall even (same director)), and single-player games getting multiplayer (not necessarily GaaS-like) additional content in future updates like what they did for Ghosts of Tsushima. That stuff could be light live-service content with some additional cosmetics/weapons/skins etc. purchasable through MTX, but not full GaaS/online-centric titles (some could have local couch co-op and multiplayer for example).

That way it's not a matter of MP-centric or SP-centric studios "dominating" the production pipeline. They'd all have equal worth and value to the pipeline for gaming content.

I guess it's more multiplayer centric teams becoming the dominant group at PlayStation.

Multiplayer already has large advantages over single player in terms of market potential but to add day and date on PC to that list? The pups that get the most milk generally grow into the healthiest dogs.

In the next 5 years, their biggest teams + studios are all going to be MP oriented. Y'all should hope this policy changes soon.

 

[zapper]

Does Helldivers 2 on playstation require PS Plus? if so it would explain these numbers. the genre of the game influences but in my opinion not that much

 

[Fabieter]

I guess it's more multiplayer centric teams becoming the dominant group at PlayStation.

Multiplayer already has large advantages over single player in terms of market potential but to add day and date on PC to that list? The pups that get the most milk generally grow into the healthiest dogs.

In the next 5 years, their biggest teams + studios are all going to be MP oriented. Y'all should hope this policy changes soon.

Their big sp games sell beyond 20m copies on one platform. There is no way most of their gaas game turn into a profit even when they are on 10 platforms. Gaas is still super profitable if you stick to the 1% landing.

 

[reinking]

Does Helldivers 2 on playstation require PS Plus? if so it would explain these numbers. the genre of the game influences but in my opinion not that much

According to the PS store page PS+ is required.

 

[simpatico]

PSbro's... is it really over?

 

[Killjoy-NL]

How long until 500,000,000+ USD development projects for a couple million buyers is no longer an attractive enough proposition for publishers?

That's why Sony will release GaaS on PC as well.

Whales and gamers on PC will add the needed revenue.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I guess it's more multiplayer centric teams becoming the dominant group at PlayStation.

Multiplayer already has large advantages over single player in terms of market potential but to add day and date on PC to that list? The pups that get the most milk generally grow into the healthiest dogs.

In the next 5 years, their biggest teams + studios are all going to be MP oriented. Y'all should hope this policy changes soon.

You really believe that?

Major Sony IPs will still be singleplayer primarily for a long time.

 

[DaciaJC]

The PlayStation brand and console are vital to Sony. They cannot allow the dilution of the PlayStation console by doing day one on PC for their story driven games that built their console following. They have to give players a reason to have a PlayStation. The fear of losing PlayStation players to PC is a real concern. At least for the foreseeable future.

Based on what, precisely? Because all I've seen in this thread (and others) is fear-mongering and posts dazzled up with entirely hypothetical numbers, not a real shred of evidence or actual proof that Sony broadly adopting a day-one PC strategy would inevitably lead to a mass exodus of PS players to PC.

Let's all be honest here, this is just alarmism driven by fanboys who are anguished at the thought of having to share their toys outside their exclusive club.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Based on what, precisely? Because all I've seen in this thread (and others) is fear-mongering and posts dazzled up with entirely hypothetical numbers, not a real shred of evidence or actual proof that Sony broadly adopting a day-one PC strategy would inevitably lead to a mass exodus of PS players to PC.

Let's all be honest here, this is just alarmism driven by fanboys who are anguished at the thought of having to share their toys outside their exclusive club.

You can take a look at the PC market space growth and console market stagnation to see that it's already happening.

Which means Sony should make their own PC storefront and release games exclusively there. But apparently PC gamers are such entitled elitists that only our havenly bread delivered from Lord Gaben himself can be allowed to be consumed, unlike all the other streaming app services we all use

 

[FrankWza]

Based on what, precisely? Because all I've seen in this thread (and others) is fear-mongering and posts dazzled up with entirely hypothetical numbers, not a real shred of evidence or actual proof that Sony broadly adopting a day-one PC strategy would inevitably lead to a mass exodus of PS players to PC.

There's an example of this happening. There is no example of this happening where it has been a success. The company that experienced this has a parent company that is one of the biggest in the world. Playstation doesn't have this kind of backing.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Based on what, precisely? Because all I've seen in this thread (and others) is fear-mongering and posts dazzled up with entirely hypothetical numbers, not a real shred of evidence or actual proof that Sony broadly adopting a day-one PC strategy would inevitably lead to a mass exodus of PS players to PC.

Let's all be honest here, this is just alarmism driven by fanboys who are anguished at the thought of having to share their toys outside their exclusive club.

It's a knee-jerk reaction to MS going 3rd party and Xbox dying, since they started day 1 PC releases years ago.

What's being ignored is that Sony is the marketleader and is only looking to increase revenue while continuing what they've always done.

 

[reinking]

Based on what, precisely? Because all I've seen in this thread (and others) is fear-mongering and posts dazzled up with entirely hypothetical numbers, not a real shred of evidence or actual proof that Sony broadly adopting a day-one PC strategy would inevitably lead to a mass exodus of PS players to PC.

Let's all be honest here, this is just alarmism driven by fanboys who are anguished at the thought of having to share their toys outside their exclusive club.

Based on Sony themselves have expressed that concern. I am giving them the benefit of knowing their business better than "anguished fanboys" on any side of the argument.

 

[Gaiff]

You can take a look at the PC market space growth and console market stagnation to see that it's already happening.

Which means Sony should make their own PC storefront and release games exclusively there. But apparently PC gamers are such entitled elitists that only our havenly bread delivered from Lord Gaben himself can be allowed to be consumed, unlike all the other streaming app services we all use

If Sony releases a storefront that isn't shit, I'm all for it since I already have a PSN account anyway. Though I wouldn't bet on that, because their own storefront is garbage.

Also, you're mistaken. PC players don't reject other launchers because of an inherent preference for Steam, they reject other launchers because they almost invariably suck. For instance, the Epic store didn't get a cart until like its 3rd year lol.

 

[SmokedMeat]

PC loveeees gaaaaaaas
You can keep it

The most played games on PS5 are all GaaS

 

[DaciaJC]

You can take a look at the PC market space growth and console market stagnation to see that it's already happening.

Then show me the receipts. Produce a table or a chart or frankly anything concrete demonstrating an inverse correlation between ex-console players and new PC players. Be sure to explain why other possible explanations, such as casual players adopting a preference for mobile gaming that happens to coincide with an independent increase in PC gaming in such countries as China, are incorrect.

Which means Sony should make their own PC storefront and release games exclusively there. But apparently PC gamers are such entitled elitists that only our havenly bread delivered from Lord Gaben himself can be allowed to be consumed, unlike all the other streaming app services we all use

If they want their games to be less successful on PC, sure, they should do as you suggest. Thankfully, I think they have more sense than that, just as PC players choose their preferred launcher/storefront for sensible reasons.

 

[SmokedMeat]

You can take a look at the PC market space growth and console market stagnation to see that it's already happening.

Which means Sony should make their own PC storefront and release games exclusively there. But apparently PC gamers are such entitled elitists that only our havenly bread delivered from Lord Gaben himself can be allowed to be consumed, unlike all the other streaming app services we all use

Why won’t those PC gamers bend the knee to Sony like we do, and accept mediocrity?

 

[BennyBlanco]

Why won’t those PC gamers bend the knee to Sony like we do, and accept mediocrity?

Bargaining stage. It’s hilarious to watch.

 

[DaciaJC]

There's an example of this happening. There is no example of this happening where it has been a success. The company that experienced this has a parent company that is one of the biggest in the world. Playstation doesn't have this kind of backing.

What's the example, Microsoft? If it's such a slam-dunk case, then I'll issue you the same challenge: show us clear proof that PC ports were and are directly responsible for the decreasing marketshare of Xbox as opposed to a composite of a dozen other reasons (such as poorly reviewed games, an overemphasis on subscription services, etc).

Based on Sony themselves have expressed that concern. I am giving them the benefit of knowing their business better than "anguished fanboys" on any side of the argument.

Jim Ryan called PC a direct competitor to the Playstation platform, yet he was seemingly one of the strongest proponents for porting exclusives to PC. Under his successor, Sony is looking not only to maintain but in fact increase their margins through multi-platform releases. If you want to give them the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you'll acknowledge they probably have good reasons for wanting to continue expanding onto PC.

 

[CoreyFlawless]

Always thought gaas started on pc. So of course they would love it.

 

[Neofire]

In its second week the game sold 50/50 on PC/PS5 with PC selling slightly more but sales have significantly shifted as the overall data now has PC exceeding PS5 sales with more than 60% of sales taking place on PC.

Where are the sources for this data does he work for Sony or Arrow Head?

 

[kbear]

James Sawyer Ford is absolutely right. A Sony PC storefront that has cross-buy and carries all your trophies over, along with a sleek but feature-rich PS5 UI, would be the ideal strategy. You get 100% of the cut and, most importantly, still retain everyone in your digital ecosystem (we’ve seen how important that is after what happened last gen with Xflop One and the PS4). Unfortunately, the length of the neckbeards on PC gamers are so long that they refuse to play anything that’s not on Lord Gaben’s Steam. It’s this bizarre, tribalistic mentality that I’ll never understand.

 

[adamsapple]

PC loveeees gaaaaaaas
You can keep it

Top 6 are all GAAS or games with heavy GAAS components in them.

 

[reinking]

Jim Ryan called PC a direct competitor to the Playstation platform, yet he was seemingly one of the strongest proponents for porting exclusives to PC. Under his successor, Sony is looking not only to maintain but in fact increase their margins through multi-platform releases. If you want to give them the benefit of the doubt, perhaps you'll acknowledge they probably have good reasons for wanting to continue expanding onto PC.

So you agree that Sony has expressed concerns about losing PlayStation players to PC? Go back and read my posts in this thread. It supports what Sony has said about this, not contradicting it. Of course, I acknowledge they not only want to, but are expanding in PC. However, they are not going to just dump all PlayStation games on PC day one for the reasons I stated earlier.

 

[Braag]

It's a knee-jerk reaction to MS going 3rd party and Xbox dying, since they started day 1 PC releases years ago.

What's being ignored is that Sony is the marketleader and is only looking to increase revenue while continuing what they've always done.

But think of all the funny threads of man-children being all worked up over another group of people getting to play with same toys as them.

 

[Bernardougf]

A

Top 6 are all GAAS or games with heavy GAAS components in them.

Outside of the usual heavy Bangers dont see much difference.... but yes point taken

 

[reinking]

But think of all the funny threads of man-children being all worked up over another group of people getting to play with same toys as them.

It's not about that for a lot of reasonable people. It is about knowing that Sony cannot afford to lose the PlayStation console and brand. They literally cannot afford it. As someone who mainly plays on PC and VR these days, I wish they could.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

You really believe that?

Major Sony IPs will still be singleplayer primarily for a long time.

When Marathon and Concord are pulling in more money than Spiderman and Naughty Dogs next big SP game, the hierarchy will be adjusted. It's happening sooner than most people here realize. Some people are trying really hard to believe Helldivers 2 was a fluke.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Their big sp games sell beyond 20m copies on one platform. There is no way most of their gaas game turn into a profit even when they are on 10 platforms. Gaas is still super profitable if you stick to the 1% landing.

The reason why PlayStation is making so many GAAS games isn't because their success is random. They're making so many because they believe each one is going to hit. The "most will fail" narrative was always bogus wishful thinking.

 

[Fabieter]

The reason why PlayStation is making so many GAAS games isn't because their success is random. They're making so many because they believe each one is going to hit. The "most will fail" narrative was always bogus wishful thinking.

It isnt likely that everything is gonna stick. It's not happening.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

It isnt likely that everything is gonna stick. It's not happening.

Most will. A few duds will make it to release, but not many.

 

[Fabieter]

Most will. A few duds will make it to release, but not many.

For me a gaas win is longterm success which is unlikely. I agree that gaas isn't done or something but Iam pretty sure Sony will get some "the finals" on their hands. Good games but won't retain their playerbase.

 

[FrankWza]

What's the example, Microsoft? If it's such a slam-dunk case, then I'll issue you the same challenge: show us clear proof that PC ports were and are directly responsible for the decreasing marketshare of Xbox as opposed to a composite of a dozen other reasons (such as poorly reviewed games, an overemphasis on subscription services, etc).

No, not Microsoft, xbox is the example. Microsoft is the reason they aren't out of the business entirely by now. Because of all the reasons you mentioned plus PC day one. Nobody knows what percentage each one had as a negative effect, but day one is certainly part of the reason. Playstation needs to maximize its profits just like most businesses. Most businesses don't have the financial backing that xbox does. But remember, not long ago the narrative was that xbox could keep Bethesda and Activision games exclusive because of "fuck you money"... And here we are today waiting for a halo port to PS5.

So you agree that Sony has expressed concerns about losing PlayStation players to PC? Go back and read my posts in this thread. It supports what Sony has said about this, not contradicting it. Of course, I acknowledge they not only want to, but are expanding in PC. However, they are not going to just dump all PlayStation games on PC day one for the reasons I stated earlier.

Part of the reason the PS4 and PS5 Pro exist.

But think of all the funny threads of man-children being all worked up over another group of people getting to play with same toys as them.

Lazy take.

 

[DaciaJC]

So you agree that Sony has expressed concerns about losing PlayStation players to PC? Go back and read my posts in this thread. It supports what Sony has said about this, not contradicting it. Of course, I acknowledge they not only want to, but are expanding in PC. However, they are not going to just dump all PlayStation games on PC day one for the reasons I stated earlier.

No, my point was that Sony's behavior does not support this supposed fear of "diluting the brand" as you put it. Ten years ago, the idea of Playstation exclusives coming to PC was unthinkable. Then Shawn Layden correctly surmised that most PC players weren't interested in "coming to our house, so we have to go to theirs." Under Jim Ryan, his successor, PC porting efforts began in earnest, though at one point he stated releases would continue to be staggered by 2-3 years. Now here we are in 2024, with the newest CEO publicly stating the company's intention to become even more aggressive with PC releases; as an example, the Insomniac leaks seem to indicate that development of the PC port of Spiderman 2, which originally released just a few months ago in October 2023, will be completed later this year.

All of that is to say, the market has changed and I think Sony have over time come to realize more and more that PC offers a fantastic avenue by which they can help offset the costs of their trademark high production value AAA singleplayer titles, and that they've come to realize bringing PC port releases closer in conjunction to the original console launch does not, in fact, devalue their brand in any significant way. Does that mean they'll eventually implement a day-one PC strategy? I don't know, nobody here does. But seeing as that's the direction they're trending in, I wouldn't be at all surprised.

 

[adamsapple]

Part of the reason the PS4 and PS5 Pro exist.

 

[reinking]

No, my point was that Sony's behavior does not support this supposed fear of "diluting the brand" as you put it. Ten years ago, the idea of Playstation exclusives coming to PC was unthinkable. Then Shawn Layden correctly surmised that most PC players weren't interested in "coming to our house, so we have to go to theirs." Under Jim Ryan, his successor, PC porting efforts began in earnest, though at one point he stated releases would continue to be staggered by 2-3 years. Now here we are in 2024, with the newest CEO publicly stating the company's intention to become even more aggressive with PC releases; as an example, the Insomniac leaks seem to indicate that development of the PC port of Spiderman 2, which originally released just a few months ago in October 2023, will be completed later this year.

All of that is to say, the market has changed and I think Sony have over time come to realize more and more that PC offers a fantastic avenue by which they can help offset the costs of their trademark high production value AAA singleplayer titles, and that they've come to realize bringing PC port releases closer in conjunction to the original console launch does not, in fact, devalue their brand in any significant way. Does that mean they'll eventually implement a day-one PC strategy? I don't know, nobody here does. But seeing as that's the direction they're trending in, I wouldn't be at all surprised.

I'm not really sure what you are going on about since we agree that Sony is bringing more games to PC and at no point did I ever say otherwise. If you are hung up on "diluting the console brand" then we have a different opinion on that. Currently, until PlayStation starts releasing those single player, story driven, on PC day one, then it appears I am more aligned with where they are right now. If I am wrong, come back and laugh at me. I will survive.

 

[RoadHazard]

It has sold overall huh? That's good probably.

 

[DavidGzz]

Can someone explain why the other threads devolved into people arguing about PC versus ps sales?

Just saw pages of arguments and my eyes glazed over. Who is upset about a larger player base?

I didn't see people complaining about cheating which seems like the biggest concern BTW ps and PC games working together.

Just seems like a really weird thing to argue about as a Playstation lover.

It shows that games find great success coming out day and date on PC and that damages the fanboy's psyche. It's more than doubling the sales in this case but they lose an exclusive so they cri erytiem.

 

[Perrott]

Aside Bungie and Polyphony Digital, Sony don't really have any MP-centric studios. Not anymore, anyhow.

Well, haven't they purchased both Firewalk and Haven for their multiplayer games specifically? Plus, London Studio's only current project is a live-service game, so they could be thrown into the same bag for the time being.

Also, while not MP-centric studios, both Guerrilla and Firesprite do have multiplayer titles in the works, those being Horizon Online and Twisted Metal respectively.

 

[JerryinSoCal]

Hulst said a while ago that GaaS titles would release on PS5 and PC at the same time, why is this being brought up as an issue now?

 

[Crayon]

Are you guys arguing if they start releasing their sp games on pc? From the leaks, they are going really conservative with it. LOU remake was close, though. The rest, they are releasing way late for full price and they aren't selling a ton. It's almost like they're skimming. They could go more aggressive any time they want but it seems like a bad idea from looking at xbox. It took awhile, but it eventually hurt the sales. People already on pc aren't going to look at the console, and the people who switch are going to be the biggest spenders. Not to mention ms encourages the community to do it because every screen is an xbox, but every screen ends up with steam instead.

 

[Kerotan]

This is why synergy is good. Some games will be more appealing to the PC market but when playstation players see it going viral they'll be more likely to jump in. Sony profits going to jump nicely with this strategy.

 

[Bernardougf]

Hulst said a while ago that GaaS titles would release on PS5 and PC at the same time, why is this being brought up as an issue now?

I think it always was pretty much expected... wouldnt mind this titles being launched in every system.. i dont give a single fuck about MP/gaas.. but it obviously benefits from landing in every system possible.

Single player first party content though.. thats another issue...

 

[sendit]

Makes sense. I can't imagine playing this game with a gamepad.

 

[Crayon]

Makes sense. I can't imagine playing this game with a gamepad.

I was playing 7 on gamepad a lot and I found movement a lot easier. While I like playing on a stick, the main reason I have the thing is that using buttons on a gamepad for a fg agitates my rsi.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I guess it's more multiplayer centric teams becoming the dominant group at PlayStation.

Multiplayer already has large advantages over single player in terms of market potential but to add day and date on PC to that list? The pups that get the most milk generally grow into the healthiest dogs.

In the next 5 years, their biggest teams + studios are all going to be MP oriented. Y'all should hope this policy changes soon.

Look I don't want the blockbuster single-player AAA titles to go away either, but what are they gonna do? Make the MP titles console-only too? Make the MP titles console-only but make the SP games console & PC Day 1? Make both SP & MP console-exclusive for a set amount of time before porting any to PC?

If they pick that last option, how does the console make it financially viable? I just think at some point wanting EVERYTHING locked exclusively to the console permanently or for a very long period becomes unrealistic. Maybe in some future the MP games do in fact become the big breadwinners and get a ton of financial investment as a result, but Sony find a balance with the SP games between doing more AA titles, and maybe making the SP AAA games more episodic (so portions can release more quickly over a period of time for like $30 each part, maybe with a discount in the subscription service and, yes, I know this is kind of suggesting a Game Pass-esque approach but still).

Regardless Sony would have to find ways to make the SP AAA games more cost-efficient to produce so the margins are higher on console side, and as far as GaaS are concerned I've been saying that some should still be exclusive to the console. Because, if there's a future where the MP games do end up defining the PlayStation console experience over the SP games, well I'd like to think that Sony 1P can innovate in bringing the cinematic storytelling style into a MP framework for starters. And beyond that, they'd still have some of those MP/GaaS titles exclusive to the console to make it the complete experience.

Though that also probably means Sony need to do other things like removing the online paywall altogether on console, and find some other value incentive to replace it with.

Well, haven't they purchased both Firewalk and Haven for their multiplayer games specifically? Plus, London Studio's only current project is a live-service game, so they could be thrown into the same bag for the time being.

Also, while not MP-centric studios, both Guerrilla and Firesprite do have multiplayer titles in the works, those being Horizon Online and Twisted Metal respectively.

Yeah, fair enough points.

Hulst said a while ago that GaaS titles would release on PS5 and PC at the same time, why is this being brought up as an issue now?

Well, it is a question worth asking why console players have to pay for online MP but players on PC don't, for the exact same game, which on PC can be gotten cheaper than on console in ways because of key resellers. That kind of stuff is very likely having a direct impact on adoption rates of GaaS 1P titles on PC vs. console, because if you have both, and the games have cross-play and cross-progression...there's less reason to get the console version over the PC/Steam one.

So if stuff like that is affecting the player and purchase rates favoring one platform over the other, we could see (in fact we already are seeing) multiple people just blatantly say PC is proving the better platform for Sony and they should bring all games Day 1 to it, but those people are ignoring factors I just mentioned that Sony create themselves naturally pushing people to buy a GaaS titles on PC rather than their own console.

Those are things Sony can (and should) fix for their console, to make it more competitive and where even with the choice, you'd have a much stronger reason to consider buying that type of game on the console vs. on Steam.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

When Marathon and Concord are pulling in more money than Spiderman and Naughty Dogs next big SP game, the hierarchy will be adjusted. It's happening sooner than most people here realize. Some people are trying really hard to believe Helldivers 2 was a fluke.

Whoever thinks Helldivers 2 was a fluke, is an idiot.

It's Sony we're talking about. They know how to make multiplayer games.

Socom was amazing, M.A.G. was amazing (but limited by PS3 hardware), KZ2 & 3 had great multiplayer, RFOM had great multiplayer, TLOU Factions was great multiplayer, GoT multiplayer was great as well.

Things is, Sony had decided to focus on singleplayer primarily when we had a narrative going that singleplayer games were supposedly dying.

I do agree that Sony will have some heavy hitters in the works irt GaaS, but it will be alongside their singleplayer output.

Both can co-exist. Singleplayer titles that will be the flagship titles, while the GaaS titles will keep people playing within the eco-system in between major releases.

 

[Heaven Angel]

i guess PC gamers are more open into GaaS titles

Only good ones like this and it's rare.

 

[darrylgorn]

It's the XBOX operatives


No, it's the PS5 operatives