MacReady13
Member
I cannot stand this fucking douche bag. The fact he lied in this video goes to show that he is not listening when watching these videos, he's hearing what he wants to hear. I've stopped watching DF when he appears on videos.
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Digital Foundry: Forza Motorsport: Is 4K 60fps + Ray Tracing Really Possible on Series X?
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
No you're just upset for no reason because you think your racing game has been offended somehow. Somebody mentioned a colour grading in FM and I said it's something they have always done and it reminds me of the breaking bad meme.This is the 3th time you mention breaking bad and mexico piss filter, what has it to do with Forza? You where born there and yet you didn't see skies like that while there are tons of video's and pics? You need to go outside more buddy.
So you compare this with Forza
Then you posted photos with filters of "real life" as if Breaking bad isn't real life. Then more processed photos and then a still heavily processed video of a track during golden hour. I know what golden hour looks like I do photography too, I also have Adobe premiere and know what's been applied to that video. posting a video isn't proof of something not being processed. I told you breaking bad is video too you know. This isn't about comparing to breaking bad.
That forza shot isn't even golden hour. You can see the shadows are not projected far. Does this matter? All because I agreed with somebody saying there is a "colour grading" to forza? Why does this upset you, you're the one who needs to go outside.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
We tried telling y'all, but nobody wanted to listen. Instead he was used in the green vs blue console war proxy on here and other sites. People defending him every second he slung feces Sony's way, as if he was a beacon of unbiased virtue. Now you are starting to see the PCMR and his shittakes like, "infinitely scaling platform."
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Werewolfgrandma
Banned
Edit apparently I quoted you but I'm not sure why.
Alex is the best if only for the hate he brings out in some here.We tried telling y'all, but nobody wanted to listen. Instead he was used in the green vs blue console war proxy on here and other sites. People defending him every second he slung feces Sony's way, as if he was a beacon of unbiased virtue. Now you are starting to see the PCMR and his shittakes like, "infinitely scaling platform."
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Let's put the nail on this dumb breaking bad comparison going on please, clearly the game will have a dynamic range of lighting and ToD variety, and not the same all the time.
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Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Everything is processed for you, how do you know that Forza pic isn't processed? And the Forza pic you posted doesn't even look that orange, its Laguna seca with the sun going down with lots of brown sand. And do you really think a random guy named Darryl Peet gonna edit his Go Pro footage in Adobe Premier and color boost the orange colors to upload on youtube? And this game has dynamic tod, even in the trailer you could see that when the sun was higher it all looked cooler againNo you're just upset for no reason because you think your racing game has been offended somehow. Somebody mentioned a colour grading in FM and I said it's something they have always done and it reminds me of the breaking bad meme.
Then you posted photos with filters of "real life" as if Breaking bad isn't real life. Then more processed photos and then a still heavily processed video of a track during golden hour. I know what golden hour looks like I do photography too, I also have Adobe premiere and know what's been applied to that video. posting a video isn't proof of something not being processed. I told you breaking bad is video too you know. This isn't about comparing to breaking bad.
That forza shot isn't even golden hour. You can see the shadows are not projected far. Does this matter? All because I agreed with somebody saying there is a "colour grading" to forza? Why does this upset you, you're the one who needs to go outside.
And we have other examples also
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Not hate, at all. Dipshit be what a dipshit be.
I remember those PCMR days, when I was in my late teens early 20s.
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
Maybe not you, but some have rustled jimmies for sure.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
That sexy sexy C8.RHere is the vertical version of that pic that MS has released, you can see more foreground and sky details
And this proves exactly what I mean by you being upset. The forza 8 shot/video well be 'processed'. ie its colour graded too. Why does it matter though? You're so adamant to be defensive that you don't even realise I didn't say otherwise. I just said this colour grading has been in their games before that's all.Everything is processed for you, how do you know that Forza pic isn't processed? And the Forza pic you posted doesn't even look that orange, its Laguna seca with the sun going down with lots of brown sand. And do you really think a random guy named Darryl Peet gonna edit his Go Pro footage in Adobe Premier and color boost the orange colors to upload on youtube? And this game has dynamic tod, even in the trailer you could see that when the sun was higher it all looked cooler again
And we have other examples also
Also I know that video has been processed because a) I know what the sunset looks like there b) you can see the colour grading fail a couple of times where I would expect it to fail, sudden changes in exposure. It's fine though. You do you.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
He thought he was going to have a "gotcha!" moment with this video, but T10 stepped on his nuts by casually talking about it before his video came out, and he ended up doing the very thing he accused them of doing.
---
Nobody thought that 1-min trailer was gameplay. It was obviously a cinematic sizzle reel just like we've always had. It's weird to focus on that instead of the actual 5-min gameplay trailer. Something people need to keep in mind is that this game is still 9-12 months from release, there's plenty of time for T10 to show different versions of the game and go into more detail about the underlying engine tech.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Im not defensive and upset bruh
. You are comparing a normal lighting situation with a piss filter from a show, and all i did was point out that they are not the same thing. There are multiple examples yet you act like its impossible to have that type of lighting in real life without any proccesing. Just chill i didn't attack you or insult you in anyway. You just got heated by yourself and called me a fool.Here is a 8h race broadcast, surely they don't use Adobe Premier on live events right.
The tod is close to the Forza picture you can see that by the shadows
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
oh my god guys just agree with Three so he can stop talking about the color grading lol.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
8Im not defensive and upset bruh
Here is a 8h race broadcast, surely they don't use Adobe Premier on live events right.
The tod is close to the Forza picture you can see that by the shadows
Sorry adamsapple but he is being disingenuous as always or he doesn't know the difference between colour grading a video/photo and a head on reflection of the sun off tarmac. Wonder why he didn't post the actual video this time. Because the live event doesn't look colour graded at all
The actual race
Yeah totally the same thing as this
Or this photo
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PaintTinJr
Member
If you are advocating for 30fps on any hardware system for a sim racer, I'm guessing you haven't ran the numbers to consider how many metres of track passes every frame at a speed of say 160km/hr.(~100mph), to see it would be unplayable.
It isn't just a doubling of distance passing per frame at 30fps as feedback, but also half the opportunities to counter-correct the steering. At 30fps a driving game becomes an arcade racer because it requires the game engine to do AI steering assist to avoid things at highspeed, as the feedback is way too low,
For anyone that noted turn 10 said it is a forward renderer(forward+ more specifically) and either knows what that means or read the forward+ pdf I linked on an early post in this thread, will know that a forward render is chosen for high frame-rate, so the XsS is also targeting 60fps, and because it is a forward+ renderer, the renderer decouples the light rendering problem from the CPU and does it entirely on the GPU as a self contained GPU problem - as the pdf explains - so the cutback memory bandwidth of the XsS won't be an issue in all likelihood, and the only question will be if the XsS has enough GPU performance to do the RT reflections at a resolution that yields better IQ while playing at 60fps, than screen space reflections at a higher resolution, and the 2nd question is if the XsS can do replays with RTGI at a good resolution and 30fps or not.
Zuzu
Member
I might be wrong but I have a feeling they'll pull it off. They might lower the resolution/quality of the ray tracing reflections significantly but I think it'll be there in gameplay. Perhaps they might remove GI in the replays though.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
Let's put the nail on this dumb breaking bad comparison going on please, clearly the game will have a dynamic range of lighting and ToD variety, and not the same all the time.
this image lives rent free in my head. it just looks so fucking good.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
Ray tracing, more like shut the fuck up
This feature has been overhyped for so long when you hardly even see the difference in most modern games. People were calling Horizon 5 one of the best looking games of 2021 and it had no raytracing. The difference isn't even that stark in most games.
I get cross gen and all, and hey maybe this can be the first game that can truly implement it in a meaningful way judging by how it's exclusive to XSX and not held back by the one consoles. but until then fuck that shit, just gimme a good game (and those new destruction physics, they look cool)
This feature has been overhyped for so long when you hardly even see the difference in most modern games. People were calling Horizon 5 one of the best looking games of 2021 and it had no raytracing. The difference isn't even that stark in most games.
I get cross gen and all, and hey maybe this can be the first game that can truly implement it in a meaningful way judging by how it's exclusive to XSX and not held back by the one consoles. but until then fuck that shit, just gimme a good game (and those new destruction physics, they look cool)
MightySquirrel
Banned
Some are grasping at straws hard I see, but why? There are plenty of Series of consoles available.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
It will now be dependent on the time of day.Great, it was pretty obvious that somebody was asking about FM. it's what the thread is about and what they were referring to as a colour grading in FM. Why even bring FH up like I was talking about it because I said forza? Official FM8 shots
I'm saying it's just something Forza Motorsport has always done. It's very much like the mexico filter in breaking bad.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
adamsapple
sorry but
I will adress this one last time promised.
Sorry adamsapple but he is being disingenuous as always or he doesn't know the difference between colour grading a video/photo and a head on reflection of the sun off tarmac. Wonder why he didn't post the actual video this time. Because the live event doesn't look colour graded at all
The actual race
Yeah totally the same thing as this
Or this photo
You say that i didn't post the video but i literally showed the whole title and timeline. If you think that i wanted to hide it don't you think i could just crop that part out lol. And nice that you posted a screenshot of a earlier PART of that 8 hour long video. And funny enough you posted lap 136 which is 1 hour earlier than the final lap that i have posted. And isn't it funny that the Forza picture also has the sun facing the camera like the pic i posted which is also bouncing and reflecting light from the asphalt and sand lol. And even without the sun facing the camera, in the final lap you can literally see the same lighting on different angles where the sun is even out of view.
Here have a look buddy, you can easily see that everything is normal color wise because of the team camera. But look how the race looks on the track view
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Holly shit didn't notice that, so there is still hope for the cockpit animations.Steering wheels actually turn 180 degrees rather than 90 for the first time in the franchise. Thank fucker!
Looking forward to seeing some proper on board footage in the future to see the updated animations
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
What??? My 900º wheel may cry. And they dare to call this a SIM. -_-'Steering wheels actually turn 180 degrees rather than 90 for the first time in the franchise. Thank fucker!
Looking forward to seeing some proper on board footage in the future to see the updated animations
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
They say in the gameplay demo that they are using procedural generation techniques, I wonder what they are?
I would of thought it would not be necessary on a racing game.
I would of thought it would not be necessary on a racing game.
Because you think nobody would read or look up any details of what's being discussed if you make it difficult/time consuming to follow.
I'm going to try to be as concise as I can replying to your nonsense:
Screenshot I posted:
Screenshot of final lap you think I'm hiding:
Colour graded yellow like the shots you posted now? Does it look like this photo you posted of what you think bathurst looks like:
because I've never been to a warm country and wouldn't know obviously.
You're disingenuous man.
Maybe you still don't know what colour grading is or is it simply that you can't admit that something has been colour graded. You see yellow sand in a blurry chopper cam at golden hour and think it's the same as colour grading a photo/video. It's not, colour grading would affect trees, grass, buildings, cement barriers, and cars by shifting the colour of everything. You think "look at this yellow thing its yellow" means some other photo hasn't been colour graded because it's also kind of yellow. Maybe one day you'll get it.
Heres a photo of pretty much the same time in the Bathurst race where you aren’t just looking at yellow sand which shockingly is yellow from above
Do think this proves that the below picture isn't colour graded because it looks similar to you? :
If you do then there's no point of continuing.
It doesn't or you struggling with how shadows and reflections work too.
In the forza, sorry FM8, shot the sun is to the left of the image casting short shadows (not even same golden hour tod as you claim). You can pinpoint exactly where it is and tarmac on the far right of the screen wouldn't reflect back yellow like that unless it's colour grading or a sandstorm. Look at the long shadows in the screens you posted. The single one you posted of the Bathurst race is head on and low. Something you will only get if the sun is directly behind. In the forza shots they are short on the cars to the right.
And all this nonsense for what, avoiding the simple fact that yes the image is colour graded.
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BusierDonkey
Member
A lot of games use procedural generation initially since placing things like shrubs and weeds on massive maps is not worth the time it would take to place manually. All the "fly-by" scenery that you'd never stop to look at can be placed by software while important landmarks like the lonely tree at The Esses at Mount Panorama, the memorial by the grandstands at Spa or important historically significant buildings lining tracks need to be hand-placed. Even well-known advertising needs to mimic reality. For the most part trees and bushes are not as important so they get peppered into the map fairly randomly within the areas they should exist. The downside of this is the occasional flying paper tree or the odd bushes clipping through a fence that are pretty common in sim racers.
The tech they are using is probably similar to, or literally the same tech used in Horizon 5 where they "paint" foliage and textures onto the environment using a tool that acts similar to a paintbrush tool in photoshop. "Grass" will include both the base texture maps but also the 3D grass that sprouts in that location but exclude bushes, small trees, logs, etc. "Forest floor" would include those items that belong in a forest but exclude items that don't. The random objects on the ground aren't hand-placed but will only generate in the area assigned by human hands. There was a cool video they released showing it being used in FH5's development but for the life of me I can't find it.
It has the effect of looking handcrafted since a human being decided what goes where but the end result is completely random within the brushstrokes. It's all procedurally generated a single time and then locked for final release. All versions of the game are identical despite the foliage and textures being applied procedurally initially.
Procedural generation is necessary because of the sheer scale of the tracks in racing games. People often don't realize just how big a race track can be. As an example the Nurburgring is enormous, occupying around 30 square kilometers of land, or about the size of the map in Skyrim. While you're restricted to the track itself unlike Skyrim, It's still lined with landmarks and key scenery that should be duplicated in-game if the dev wants to preserve the track's character. Even a short race track is measured in kilometers or miles and modern racing games feature dozens of tracks. Hand placing every plant on a map that large would be a massive waste of time when 99% of players will be going over 100mph past it all.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
So you say that this shot of yours thats zoomed in and covered in shadows looks more comparable to the Forza picBecause you think nobody would read or look up any details of what's being discussed if you make it difficult/time consuming to follow.
I'm going to try to be as concise as I can replying to your nonsense:
Screenshot I posted:
Screenshot of final lap you think I'm hiding:
Colour graded yellow like the shots you posted now? Does it look like this photo you posted of what you think bathurst looks like:
because I've never been to a warm country and wouldn't know obviously.
You're disingenuous man.
Maybe you still don't know what colour grading is or is it simply that you can't admit that something has been colour graded. You see yellow sand in a blurry chopper cam at golden hour and think it's the same as colour grading a photo/video. It's not, colour grading would affect trees, grass, buildings, cement barriers, and cars by shifting the colour of everything. You think "look at this yellow thing its yellow" means some other photo hasn't been colour graded because it's also kind of yellow. Maybe one day you'll get it.
Heres a photo of pretty much the same time in the Bathurst race where you aren’t just looking at yellow sand which shockingly is yellow from above
Do think this proves that the below picture isn't colour graded because it looks similar to you? :
If you do then there's no point of continuing.
It doesn't or you struggling with how shadows and reflections work too.
In the forza, sorry FM8, shot the sun is to the left of the image casting short shadows (not even same golden hour tod as you claim). You can pinpoint exactly where it is and tarmac on the far right of the screen wouldn't reflect back yellow like that unless it's colour grading or a sandstorm. Look at the long shadows in the screens you posted. The single one you posted of the Bathurst race is head on and low. Something you will only get if the sun is directly behind. In the forza shots they are short on the cars to the right.
And all this nonsense for what, avoiding the simple fact that yes the image is colour graded.
than this shot, where the sun is coming from the back just like the Forza pic but from a different angle (just look at the shadows)?
Like really?
And these lines made me chuckle "where you aren’t just looking at yellow sand which shockingly is yellow from above" & "You see yellow sand in a blurry chopper cam at golden hour and think it's the same as colour grading a photo/video" Like bruh isn't Laguna seca covered 80% in sand
.And here is a article about Laguna Seca by Track Clinic and they have bunch of photo's taken by a professional photographer ROBERT KERIAN. And what a coincidence, when the sun go low almost all of his photo's look like the Forza pics
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15110944/track-clinic-mazda-raceway-laguna-seca-feature/
But hey everything is filtered right so those don't count i assume. And you act like the sun in the Forza pic is not low or something.
But im tired of hearing you say the words filter, color grading, yellow, orange,...
Negotiator101
Member
I explained to someone the other day about the colour changes at sunset and sunrise and how Forza in this new release is quite accurate. Your post however has absolutely destroyed our fellow Gaf member's argument entirely. Hopefully he acknowledges your side of the discussion.So you say that this shot of yours thats zoomed in and covered in shadows looks more comparable to the Forza pic
than this shot, where the sun is coming from the back just like the Forza pic but from a different angle (just look at the shadows)?
Like really?
And these lines made me chuckle "where you aren’t just looking at yellow sand which shockingly is yellow from above" & "You see yellow sand in a blurry chopper cam at golden hour and think it's the same as colour grading a photo/video" Like bruh isn't Laguna seca covered 80% in sand
And here is a article about Laguna Seca by Track Clinic and they have bunch of photo's taken by a professional photographer ROBERT KERIAN. And what a coincidence, when the sun go low almost all of his photo's look like the Forza pics
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15110944/track-clinic-mazda-raceway-laguna-seca-feature/
But hey everything is filtered right so those don't count i assume. And you act like the sun in the Forza pic is not low or something.
But im tired of hearing you say the words filter, color grading, yellow, orange,...
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
Expecting sony warrior trash to shut the fuck up when their entire argument has been shut down beyond any possible comment? Good luck with that.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
Show me a single device that uses all of its performance.
If you max out the CPU on some random CPU task the GPU will not be fed... If you max out the GPU the frame rate will drop and the CPU will waste time waiting between frames (this is not even taking into account IO and memory subsystems).
You're being deceitful as usual. That screenshot of the race was to show you there is no colour grading in the live event like you said there was using a sunset reflection backdrop on tarmac. I wasn't looking for anything and everything yellow to try and prove some blatantly processed shots like theseSo you say that this shot of yours thats zoomed in and covered in shadows looks more comparable to the Forza pic
than this shot, where the sun is coming from the back just like the Forza pic but from a different angle (just look at the shadows)?
Like really?
And these lines made me chuckle "where you aren’t just looking at yellow sand which shockingly is yellow from above" & "You see yellow sand in a blurry chopper cam at golden hour and think it's the same as colour grading a photo/video" Like bruh isn't Laguna seca covered 80% in sand
And here is a article about Laguna Seca by Track Clinic and they have bunch of photo's taken by a professional photographer ROBERT KERIAN. And what a coincidence, when the sun go low almost all of his photo's look like the Forza pics
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15110944/track-clinic-mazda-raceway-laguna-seca-feature/
But hey everything is filtered right so those don't count i assume. And you act like the sun in the Forza pic is not low or something.
But im tired of hearing you say the words filter, color grading, yellow, orange,...
Also real life can look like that or even more orange.
are actually natural and that I just haven't been to a warm country to know. You were saying this doesn't have colour grading applied too because it's video:
It blatantly has. I know what has been applied and you can even see it here
I don't even give a shit if that other photographers laguna seca pics have been processed too or not. He clearly post processes them if you care to look.
Why reupload a tiny forza pic though? Because the tarmac wasn't the natural colour it is in the Laguna shots without the colour grading?
I know colour grading when I see it and this shot of the Bathurst race you sent isn't colour grading or comparable to your pics or videos before. This timestamped section is nothing like what's being mentioned you disingenuous shmuck:
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Im actually more hyped over this then FH5, looking forward to the new physics. Also the focus on one track I kinda miss.
why are people butthurt at Alex because he's critical of Turn10/MS using "All In-Game 4K Footage" in the 1 minute trailer (and the demo verbally)? I think it's fair critique. "In-Game" shouldn't really include Photo Mode bullshots or replay footage at heightened fidelity made to look like gameplay footage. Yes it's been done before with FH5 and past entries, but it could still be rephrased to better communicate what is being shown. Even if the graphics are fantastic.
transformer
Member
First time ever seeing a racing game trailer? This is pretty much par for course. Replay and photo modes have higher graphics settings in pretty much all racing games, I thought it was great that they included a 5-6 minute demo of gameplay footage/graphics in addition to the trailer. So we can all see exactly what the game will look like in gameplay.
nikolino840
Member
Isn't spiderman 60 with RT?
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
100% agree, these consoles aren't powerful enough and the sacrifices aren't worth it. They ought to just put raytracing to one side and deliver good resolution and framerate.
CamHostage
Member
To a degree. There are a variety of different settings types for Spider-Man, including a Performance RT mode at 60fps with RT, albeit at 1440p on PS5, not 4K.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
You're being deceitful as usual. That screenshot of the race was to show you there is no colour grading in the live event like you said there was using a sunset reflection backdrop on tarmac. I wasn't looking for anything and everything yellow to try and prove some blatantly processed shots like these
are actually natural and that I just haven't been to a warm country to know. You were saying this doesn't have colour grading applied too because it's video:
It blatantly has. I know what has been applied and you can even see it here
I don't even give a shit if that other photographers laguna seca pics have been processed too or not. He clearly post processes them if you care to look.
Why reupload a tiny forza pic though? Because the tarmac wasn't the natural colour it is in the Laguna shots without the colour grading?
I know colour grading when I see it and this shot of the Bathurst race you sent isn't colour grading or comparable to your pics or videos before. This timestamped section is nothing like what's being mentioned you disingenuous shmuck:
Gamer79
Predicts the worst decade for Sony starting 2022
That only 1% of pc owners will ever own. You look at the vast majority of pc hardware many are still running gtx 970's and such.
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No it's not, I even recognized it's been done. But like GT7 says "mix of gameplay and in-game cinematics" that should be sufficient enough without doing a catch-all "in-game". It's just a bit more transparent is all.
They call you Ignorant Ivan because you don't even address what's being said.
You think that photographer doesn't edit photos except there is blatant evidence he does including his own words
"Countless hours go into each shot, which is not counting post and retouching." now how are you going to explain whether a photo has been post processed or retouched when you can't even tell what very obvious colour grading is in blatant shots and videos?
But here's the thing I don't give a shit about those shots. I can tell what colour grading is and some of them don't have it and others do, that forza shot does. it doesn't exist ( in the hyperreal sense) in the Bathurst live event video either and most important of all it's not worth discussing with you.
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Goalus
Member
This is new information, could you say that once again perhaps so that I can be sure I read it correctly?
Basically how you green rats see rats as green instead of brown but colours reversed in the pics posted.
Your sarcasm aside I posted information already of how colour grading affects everything including green trees and grass no longer looking green. Which is not the same as a direct sun reflection on tarmac being what you expect a reflection of the sun to look like.
There is a reason we went back to photographers who clearly dabble in the hyperreal editing instead of discussing why green trees look brown or grey tarmac looks brown.
Same photographer that Turk brought up and same day in all these shots, one of his more hyperreal post colour graded shots (this is the breaking bad look) :
Which is NOT the equivalent of this from turk
Vs a different more natural colour graded shot by the same photographer on the same day.
Sun reflection still on the tarmac here but you can clearly see the difference in colour grading in all the images.
Live racing events usually aim for natural colour though and that Bathurst reflection is not colour grading. Here is laguna seca in a racing event. I know it's hard but please refrain from finding yellow/orange things/reflections and suggesting it's like colour grading though.
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