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[Sosokrates]

Turn 10 didn't demonstrate why RT reflections while racing is important when weighed against the demand on the hardware. IMHO GT7 made the right call by restricting all those features to photomode and replays as that's when you really want to marvel at the car models in all their glory.

The entire demo minus a few chase cam sequences was shot from the perspective of a replay/photomode camera anyway...

So you would prefer the car has inferior visuals during gameplay?

Ive heard some takes in my time, but now I've heard it all.

You know a game is impressive when its producing this much salt.

 

[Tommi84]

if you think this is the only racing franchise that has done that, you're in for a surprise.

He didn't say anything about other racing franchises just called out your... beloved Microsoft it seems. That's fine, T10 and MS are also misleading users/consumers, one day you'll understand this

 

[Sosokrates]

He didn't say anything about other racing franchises just called out your... beloved Microsoft it seems. That's fine, T10 and MS are also misleading users/consumers, one day you'll understand this

No, Alex just does not understand the English language here.

Replays are "in-game"

Alex is mistaking the definition of "in-gameplay" for the definition of "in-game"

 

[Riky]

Looks like this may be the first game engine with deep Tier 2 VRS integration from the ground up and not added in later, they talked about even more performance savings with this method.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Watching the DF video on this and what a jump from last gen. Shit Is bonkers. GG turn 10, unmatched by any other racer. You better pull this off.

All these potential techniques used and RDNA 2 feels truly next gen and what we were promised from these consoles.

 

[Snake29]

I don’t doubt their technical ability, but by all accounts, decent RT can have a massive affect on performance. Even on GT7 replays, it can be difficult to notice the RT (unless taking screen shots), so I personally can’t see the point during gameplay. I’ll be more inclined (if the option is there) to play FM8 at native 4K at 60fps.

It’s completely pointless during gameplay in race games. Might be something in the cockpit, but proper reflections is more then enough without to get a hit in performance. Most people do not even use the cockpit but the hoodcam or just no car visible at all.

If you play competitive online for instance you’re not looking at the cars in front of you all the time. You're mainly concerned with seeing if you can get through the next corner properly, and you're anticipating that.

RT Lighting adds more then reflections in race games during games.

 

[PaintTinJr]

No, Alex just does not understand the English language here.

Replays are "in-game"

Alex is mistaking the definition of "in-gameplay" for the definition of "in-game"

I disagree because the industry would never have let this type of description fly at any other time, and called it out.

Take, Star-wing/Star-fox and the use of mode7 rendering on the SNES, and imagine if the small print had said: only in-game transitions at the start and end of levels use mode7 fully and the in gameplay rendering was just sprites with mode7 silhouette wire frames. The industry would said the game was 2D in reality and misrepresenting a 3D game, compared to the competition. We can be pretty sure of that, because even today mode7 is still distinguished from conventional 3D, and described as mode7, rather than 3D, so as not to over sell what it actually is. Even terms like 2.5D were used when describing early pseudo-3D games by idSoftware to not mislead.

 

[Inviusx]

So you would prefer the car has inferior visuals during gameplay?

Ive heard some takes in my time, but now I've heard it all.

You know a game is impressive when its producing this much salt.

The new boxes aren't magic we know they can't do 4k 60 with RT without there being cuts somewhere.

 

[01011001]

He didn't say anything about other racing franchises just called out your... beloved Microsoft it seems. That's fine, T10 and MS are also misleading users/consumers, one day you'll understand this

yeah they are totally misleading people by telling them the graphics shown are replay settings not gameplay setting.
OH NO HOW MISLEADING OF THEM.

this intellectually dishonest shit is laughable

 

[Sosokrates]

I disagree because the industry would never have let this type of description fly at any other time, and called it out.

Take, Star-wing/Star-fox and the use of mode7 rendering on the SNES, and imagine if the small print had said: only in-game transitions at the start and end of levels use mode7 fully and the in gameplay rendering was just sprites with mode7 silhouette wire frames. The industry would said the game was 2D in reality and misrepresenting a 3D game, compared to the competition. We can be pretty sure of that, because even today mode7 is still distinguished from conventional 3D, and described as mode7, rather than 3D, so as not to over sell what it actually is. Even terms like 2.5D were used when describing early pseudo-3D games by idSoftware to not mislead.

You disagree with facts?

Ok, good luck with that.

Your example is just not comparable. They showed us a trailer of replays, at no point does it show gameplay and Replays have always had superior visuals to the gameplay in most sim racing games, so theres nothing out of the ordinary or dishonest about. Unlike your mode7 comparison, that would be like the killzone 2 cgi demo.

 

[Sosokrates]

The new boxes aren't magic we know they can't do 4k 60 with RT without there being cuts somewhere.

And with Alex finding different assets having different resolutions it suggests some kind of VRS or some image reconstruction technique being used.

 

[blastprocessor]

The track detail looks good hope polyphony take note.

 

[PaintTinJr]

You disagree with facts?

Ok, good luck with that.

Your example is just not comparable. They showed us a trailer of replays, at no point does it show gameplay and Replays have always had superior visuals to the gameplay in most sim racing games, so theres nothing out of the ordinary or dishonest about. Unlike your mode7 comparison, that would be like the killzone 2 cgi demo.

We can argue semantics as facts if you like. In-game, by it's very nature means gameplay, because if you can't "play" - interact using skill to overcome a challenge- it isn't a "game" per say, which was actually a reason why a UK gameshow on channel 4 was legally forced to change its format, because the outcome was predetermined and so there was no element of skill/interaction for the contestants to change the outcome - for it to be a "game" show.

But the part that is misleading, is that any random gamer watches the video with the high-end reflections, hears in-game RT and assumes the fidelity will be the same as in-game/in-gameplay. Even if you were technically correct, the marketing knows human behaviour and what they are doing to mislead the customer.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Although "in-engine" would have been a better label, nobody thought the 1-min video was gameplay footage. It was a typical bullshot sizzle reel.

The 5-min video was being presented as a representation of gameplay, and I think signs of either VRS or TAA with dynamic resolution being present with 1080p-4K pixel counts along with foliage pop-in would lend credence to T10's claim that it was successfully tested on Series X at the same fidelity. I think that actually demonstrates that it wasn't some maxed-out PC version running on a 3090 like people have been claiming. It was probably Series X settings. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Three]

I don't follow FM news but the whole video seemed like the info was straight from the developer because - unless it was mentioned elsewhere - him stating they are using Forward+ rendering (technical paper on what it is from 2012: https://takahiroharada.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/forward_plus.pdf) isn't something you could spot just from looking unless it was a rendering solution you were using yourself because deferred or normal forward rendering was limiting you, and the video felt like it dovetailed perfectly with some of the technical comments I made in the other thread, highlighting why they were using a forward renderer in all likelihood to hit 60fps.

The confirmation of using a forward+ renderer throws in a few more pieces of information - indirectly - because using that renderer stipulates using a pre-render z-pass to calculate the depth (into the perspective projected frustum between near plane (0.0) and far plane (1.0)), which means these values(with the normal vector at each fragment/pixel) will get used for the reflection rays, and used for the shadow map comparisons tests, which sort of confirms Alex's fear that even on high-end PC the RT shadows and multi bounce reflections won't be possible - unless turn10 do multiple render path options.

In the forward+ render it tiles the framebuffer to workout light visibility to each tile (based on mix/max depth AFAIK) which would work as a 2nd optimisation path with the non-reflective RT pixels that can also use VRS.

It is the best informative video I've watched from Alex, so I expect the info to have been properly checked given that it felt like a turn 10 info to say the game will look great, but set your expectations inline with the rendering problem.

Is that a bad thing though? I think the best example of that we have at the moment is probably Doom Eternal. It might not have multi bounce reflections but it looks decent.

I wouldn't worry on PC. On console I predict that you will see some real mental gymnastics regarding trackside detail though. During gameplay it will be blurry with what I imagine to be aggressive VRS during gameplay but at the same time people will try and draw attention to the importance of trackside detail too.

 

[Sosokrates]

We can argue semantics as facts if you like. In-game, by it's very nature means gameplay, because if you can't "play" - interact using skill to overcome a challenge- it isn't a "game" per say, which was actually a reason why a UK gameshow on channel 4 was legally forced to change its format, because the outcome was predetermined and so there was no element of skill/interaction for the contestants to change the outcome - for it to be a "game" show.

But the part that is misleading, is that any random gamer watches the video with the high-end reflections, hears in-game RT and assumes the fidelity will be the same as in-game/in-gameplay. Even if you were technically correct, the marketing knows human behaviour and what they are doing to mislead the customer.

It does not imply gameplay, because there are aspects of modern games which don't require "play".

Replays are still in the game, this is just a fact.

Its not misleading because we are talking about to seperate trailers. The trailer which says "in-game" does not mention raytracing.

 

[PaintTinJr]

It does not imply gameplay, because there are aspects of modern games which don't require "play".

Replays are still in the game, this is just a fact.

Its not misleading because we are talking about to separate trailers. The trailer which says "in-game" does not mention raytracing.

If you use the word "game" in a in-game and can't analyse the item in question with game-theory then it is a misnomer - and by extension misleading IMO.

We are at 4th or 5th level tier discussion about what is and isn't going to be in the when-you-drive game visuals - and I might be mistaken but before the clarification here on GAF we had someone do a post showing the sizzle screenshots in a visual faceoff with another game, with all the people now claiming it wasn't misleading liking the post - so if people in the 5 tiers of discussion have been temporarily mislead, what do think your average xbox gamer is thinking about how the driving visuals are going to look? Do they have a good idea of what they are getting from the info they've been exposed to?

 

[DenchDeckard]

Hasn't gt7 used replay footage for like 90 percent of their marketing footage and trailers with the caption. Captured from ps5 etc? It's exactly the same thing. Was the commentary the same then? I saw people getting hyped for that game before launch from blatant replay footage.

Also, leave me with the comments of raytracing isn't important. That's just daft. It's like saying I'm not looking in skyscrapers windows while I'm watching Spiderman swing through a city so why bother with in spider man or ratchet. The fact is it adds to the overall presentation of the game, and I very much welcome it if they can deliver at 60 fps.

 

[93xfan]

Pandemic? Supply chain issues? There's no bad time. If they make them, they will sell out period. A lot of people want more powerful consoles whether others like it or not.

So instead of continuing to sell out, you think they should release a console they can make even less of?

Let’s forget R&D costs, pissing off customers who can’t even find the base consoles easily, the almost certain increased loss per unit sold…

Let’s just consider attach rate and software sales. It will hurt investors, publishers, developers to have a smaller user base.

 

[reksveks]

So instead of continuing to sell out, you think they should release a console they can make even less of?

Depends on profit margins. I definitely don't think they care if they are selling less for a new sku unless it starts to impact the sales of the available sku

Let’s forget R&D costs, pissing off customers who can’t even find the base consoles easily, the almost certain increased loss per unit sold…

Why would general customers get even more pissed off? I get the theory but don't think it really happens for general consumers.

The decreased profit margins might be an issue but obviously that's not guaranteed.

Let’s just consider attach rate and software sales. Will investors, publishers, etc will. E thinking about it.

Not sure a new console that supports the same library really has any issues on attach rate or software sales.

Also are we assuming that one PS5 Pro being made would have to stop a PS5 from being made. Could be fair but still an assumption that the parts in shortage are shared between the two consoles.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Hasn't gt7 used replay footage for like 90 percent of their marketing footage and trailers with the caption. Captured from ps5 etc? It's exactly the same thing. Was the commentary the same then? I saw people getting hyped for that game before launch from blatant replay footage.
...

I might be mistake because after I found out GT7 was GaaS I stopped paying attention as I figured an offline B-spec might arrive before I find a used copy for £15, but while I was paying attention I don't recall any confusion after footage was revealed about what the driving graphics would look like from me or even our PS rockstar Bo.

It is a PS4 game with some PS5 enhancements, I mean GT6 still looks amazing while driving IMO - better than FMH5 in 60fps mode on XsX -, but then the floating point colour and lighting from the PS3's RSX helps a TV like mine get the most out of the PS3 output.

 

[Panajev2001a]

So instead of continuing to sell out, you think they should release a console they can make even less of?

Let’s forget R&D costs, pissing off customers who can’t even find the base consoles easily, the almost certain increased loss per unit sold…

Let’s just consider attach rate and software sales. Will investors, publishers, etc will. E thinking about it.

Not only that, it will delay XSX2 / PS6 and siphon money away from their development (it takes money to design, manufacture, ship these mid generation consoles and get devs to give token support for them bruteforcing what they are able to)… if MS moves to a generationless iterative HW model like mobile welcome buying HW with potential that sits mostly unused for longer and longer.

HW technological improvements (manufacturing process iteration which is a main driver of this: more transistors and higher clocks at same price lower power) are slowing down: it takes longer and longer to jump from one manufacturing node to the other and it costs more and more to jump to. Designing chips costs also increase as you go to more advanced processes too: 7nm << 5 nm <<< 3nm. Consumers do not want bigger and bigger boxes with higher and higher prices either which makes having larger/more complex/more chips and cooling them more complicated to say the least ($699 humongous consoles? Nah… keep the Apple like overpricing dreams down ).

So, despite all of that, we want console updates to ship more frequently when every other possible data point suggests they should ship less frequently? .

 

[Sosokrates]

If you use the word "game" in a in-game and can't analyse the item in question with game-theory then it is a misnomer - and by extension misleading IMO.

We are at 4th or 5th level tier discussion about what is and isn't going to be in the when-you-drive game visuals - and I might be mistaken but before the clarification here on GAF we had someone do a post showing the sizzle screenshots in a visual faceoff with another game, with all the people now claiming it wasn't misleading liking the post - so if people in the 5 tiers of discussion have been temporarily mislead, what do think your average xbox gamer is thinking about how the driving visuals are going to look? Do they have a good idea of what they are getting from the info they've been exposed to?

Game is not a misnomer in this context, because game-theory does not apply to most modern video games. Content can still be in a game that does not required to be "played"

To be fair the term "game" is not really an adequate description for a lot of "video games" these days.

I dont think the average Xbox fan will even notice because the game in gameplay looks that good anyway, and the average gamer is aware they are watching replays, the replays in game will still look as good as that trailer.

I think people are trying to say something is a problem when it really isnt. I mean its not a problem for them because they know all the data from this thread and the df video. Its a "what about the casuals" concern lol. I bet most "casual" racing gamers would think it looks great and could not give a crap about all these so called issues, even when they playing the game when its out, but hey maybe im wrong and there will be 1000s of angry casuals complaining about how Microsoft and turn 10 deceived them

 

[Inviusx]

Hasn't gt7 used replay footage for like 90 percent of their marketing footage and trailers with the caption. Captured from ps5 etc? It's exactly the same thing. Was the commentary the same then? I saw people getting hyped for that game before launch from blatant replay footage.

Also, leave me with the comments of raytracing isn't important. That's just daft. It's like saying I'm not looking in skyscrapers windows while I'm watching Spiderman swing through a city so why bother with in spider man or ratchet. The fact is it adds to the overall presentation of the game, and I very much welcome it if they can deliver at 60 fps.

Spiderman with Raytracing at 60fps is great but it's 1080p. Those are the kind of cuts required to work around the hardware limitations of these consoles. You can't have it all with these machines, something has to give, like I said earlier it's not a magic box. 1080p is literally a PS3/360 era resolution.

These machines are perfectly suited for 4k / DRS at 60fps, it's awesome. When ray tracing gets thrown into the mix that balance gets thrown out the window.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Game is not a misnomer in this context, because game-theory does not apply to most modern video games. Content can still be in a game that does not required to be "played"

To be fair the term "game" is not really an adequate description for a lot of "video games" these days.

I dont think the average Xbox will even notice because the game in gameplay looks that good anyway, and the average gamer is aware they are watching replays, the replays in game will still look as good as that trailer.

I think people are trying to say something is a problem when it really isnt. I mean its not a problem for them because they know all the data from this thread and the df video. Its a "what about the casuals" concern lol. I bet most "casual" racing gamers would think it look great and could not give a crap about all these so called issues, even when they playing the game when its out, but hey maybe im wrong and there will be 1000s of angry casuals complain how Microsoft and turn 10 deceived them

It is a misnomer because if they were saying they used 2D in-game, they wouldn't use that term to let everything that wasn't specified potentially be considered 2D and less impressive, they would say the in-game-map, in-game-menus etc were 2D rendering - with the correct specificity to limit the confusion. The lack of symmetry in how people use specificity is clearly to mislead, and Alex was right to call that out.

Even if you never agree with me on whether it is misleading, going forward should we not expect accurate specificity around the actual part of a game - where you play - that can't be subbed out with a cloud rendered MP4 file, no?

 

[DenchDeckard]

I might be mistake because after I found out GT7 was GaaS I stopped paying attention as I figured an offline B-spec might arrive before I find a used copy for £15, but while I was paying attention I don't recall any confusion after footage was revealed about what the driving graphics would look like from me or even our PS rockstar Bo.

It is a PS4 game with some PS5 enhancements, I mean GT6 still looks amazing while driving IMO - better than FMH5 in 60fps mode on XsX -, but then the floating point colour and lighting from the PS3's RSX helps a TV like mine get the most out of the PS3 output.

All I'm saying is, they only used mainly replay footage for the marketing and no one took any real issue with it. They also label it as captured from a ps5. It's pretty much the same as what turn 10 are doing but turn 10 are saying it's actually using that raytracing in gameplay. I welcome it. Let's get rid of cross gen shite and get the real next gen stuff starting.

Looks like Microsoft and turn 10 are delivering.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Spiderman with Raytracing at 60fps is great but it's 1080p. Those are the kind of cuts required to work around the hardware limitations of these consoles. You can't have it all with these machines, something has to give, like I said earlier it's not a magic box. 1080p is literally a PS3/360 era resolution.

These machines are perfectly suited for 4k / DRS at 60fps, it's awesome. When ray tracing gets thrown into the mix that balance gets thrown out the window.

Didn't even notice Spiderman and maybe ratchet were 1080p? Is that Miles morales too? I played them both to completion with 60 fps raytracing and I thought they looked great.

Give me 1080p then on forza if that's what it takes to hit the 60 fps lock because those games looked great on my OLED.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Didn't even notice Spiderman and maybe ratchet were 1080p? Is that Miles morales too? I played them both to completion with 60 fps raytracing and I thought they looked great.

Give me 1080p then on forza if that's what it takes to hit the 60 fps lock because those games looked great on my OLED.

Both those games were 1440p/60 with rt and had excellent iq ...I've seem people trying to act like they were 1080p and that's a lie. They may rarely drop to that res but they are 1440p

 

[DenchDeckard]

Both those games were 1440p/60 with rt and had excellent iq ...I've seem people trying to act like they were 1080p and that's a lie. They may rarely drop to that res but they are 1440p

That's what I thought, I was sure they were 1440p but I didn't want to look like an idiot if I was wrong.

 

[Sosokrates]

It is a misnomer because if they were saying they used 2D in-game, they wouldn't use that term to let everything that wasn't specified potentially be considered 2D and less impressive, they would say the in-game-map, in-game-menus etc was 2D rendering - with the correct specificity to limit the confusion. The lack of symmetry in how people use specificity is clearly to mislead, and Alex was right to call that out.

Even if you never agree with me on whether it is misleading, going forward should we not expect accurate specificity around the actual part of a game - where you play - that can't be subbed out with a cloud rendered MP4 file, no?

Its not misleading because its apparent it is a replay and replays have looked better for a while.

So no I dont agree, I think its just concern trolling and come launch it wont be an issue because the People interested about this stuff would of found out from turn 10s statements, DF and threads like these. And casuals wont give a shit. The trailer looks great, the game will be the best looking game ever, thats what casuals will care about.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Didn't even notice Spiderman and maybe ratchet were 1080p? Is that Miles morales too? I played them both to completion with 60 fps raytracing and I thought they looked great.

Give me 1080p then on forza if that's what it takes to hit the 60 fps lock because those games looked great on my OLED.

IMO it is a shame that 46" HDTV didn't stick around longer for gaming, because these consoles are really powerful, but if they could just target 720p with full RT at 60fps and 30fps for 1080p, then the use of the new technologies for a 46" TV rather than a 75" 4K would be providing a much better path to let games transition to RTGI.

It will be interesting to see if anyone takes the brave step of targeting all out features at the expense of huge resolution drop and gets praise for the high risk choice.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

4k 60 fps is a gigantic waste of gpu power especially since it is coming at the expense of rtgi during gameplay.

There shouldn’t be a difference between replay mode and gameplay mode on next Gen consoles especially when the consoles are powerful enough to run at 4k 60 fps with rt reflections. Just reduce the resolution to 1440p and add RTGI and best quality car models during gameplay. 1440p on a 4k screen looks just fine.

Yup.
1440p + 60 FPS is the sweet spot.

 

[Neo_game]

Turn 10 didn't demonstrate why RT reflections while racing is important when weighed against the demand on the hardware. IMHO GT7 made the right call by restricting all those features to photomode and replays as that's when you really want to marvel at the car models in all their glory.

The entire demo minus a few chase cam sequences was shot from the perspective of a replay/photomode camera anyway...

I think not going native 4K is a good idea. As some other said 1440P and improving gfx in other areas IMO matters more. Having said that I agree that whole presentation was disappointing including the lighting. Good things were TOD and weather on all tracks and the remodeled mapple valley trees, objects. I will not surprised if this is the best track in this game. I actually like sunset, sunrise TOD but it should look realistic not this yellowish orange filter they have in demo. I pretty much agree with everything Alan from Team VVV said in his rant video.

 

[Three]

Hasn't gt7 used replay footage for like 90 percent of their marketing footage and trailers with the caption. Captured from ps5 etc? It's exactly the same thing. Was the commentary the same then? I saw people getting hyped for that game before launch from blatant replay footage.

Also, leave me with the comments of raytracing isn't important. That's just daft. It's like saying I'm not looking in skyscrapers windows while I'm watching Spiderman swing through a city so why bother with in spider man or ratchet. The fact is it adds to the overall presentation of the game, and I very much welcome it if they can deliver at 60 fps.

People were complaining about the quality of GT7 because they showed gameplay footage with pop in and 20fps reflections. Maybe you don't remember. When they showed replay footage the same people that complained about it being deceitful then now dont for FM and post photomode bullshots for FM. When FH5 was confirmed to not have RT people were saying it's not important anyway too.

Some of them are not the same people but for others opinions seem to flip flop depending on who's doing it.

 

[Black_Stride]

Oof, they say "all in-game 4k footage" but they don't mean in-race, they mean in-replay. This plus the slip up about saying the demo was running on hardware that it wasn't just kinda comes across as MS being misleading.

Are replays not part of the game?

 

[PaintTinJr]

Are replays not part of the game?

Think about it this way...say a AA developer developed a sim racer called Assignment Cars and didn't provide a replay mode, but stated they did in-game RT does the the in-game RT mean the same for both games?

When things are clearly advertised should you really need to know the context?

 

[93xfan]

Depends on profit margins. I definitely don't think they care if they are selling less for a new sku unless it starts to impact the sales of the available sku



Why would general customers get even more pissed off? I get the theory but don't think it really happens for general consumers.

The decreased profit margins might be an issue but obviously that's not guaranteed.


Not sure a new console that supports the same library really has any issues on attach rate or software sales.

Also are we assuming that one PS5 Pro being made would have to stop a PS5 from being made. Could be fair but still an assumption that the parts in shortage are shared between the two consoles.

A Pro model would need more silicon. Every pro model made vs a standard model means that less next Gen consoles would be in existence.

 

[Negotiator101]

I think not going native 4K is a good idea. As some other said 1440P and improving gfx in other areas IMO matters more. Having said that I agree that whole presentation was disappointing including the lighting. Good things were TOD and weather on all tracks and the remodeled mapple valley trees, objects. I will not surprised if this is the best track in this game. I actually like sunset, sunrise TOD but it should look realistic not this yellowish orange filter they have in demo. I pretty much agree with everything Alan from Team VVV said in his rant video.

Sunrise and sunset we see the sun through a greater thickness of air because its low in the sky.
At these times, the sky often turns orange-red because the photons of red and orange light are scattered through the atmosphere. Step outside once in awhile you might be enlightened Also the resolution is 4k but VRS is in use which is reducing the pixel count in certain areas but not the overall image.

 

[Turk1993]

I think not going native 4K is a good idea. As some other said 1440P and improving gfx in other areas IMO matters more. Having said that I agree that whole presentation was disappointing including the lighting. Good things were TOD and weather on all tracks and the remodeled mapple valley trees, objects. I will not surprised if this is the best track in this game. I actually like sunset, sunrise TOD but it should look realistic not this yellowish orange filter they have in demo. I pretty much agree with everything Alan from Team VVV said in his rant video.

Look pretty close to the real thing to me

 

[Insane Metal]

That was the one game I was disappointed with. Graphics seemed below what I expected for a Forza game.

 

[Sosokrates]

Think about it this way...say a AA developer developed a sim racer called Assignment Cars and didn't provide a replay mode, but stated they did in-game RT does the the in-game RT mean the same for both games?

When things are clearly advertised should you really need to know the context?

No, because forza showed a trailer with replays that was labelled "in-game"

So people know the context.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

Yup.
1440p + 60 FPS is the sweet spot.

I think it all depends on display you are gaming, and also viewing distance is extremely important.

For example on 32'inch 4K monitor something like 1440p looks soft from up close, however on 55'inch tv I cant even tell the difference between 1440p and 4K (at least not from 2.5m distance). So on 32inch 4K monitor I wouldn't want to play at 1440p, however on 55inch 4K tv even 1440p is more than enough for me.

What's more, my father has 42'inch plasma with only 1024x768 and when I play games on this tv I'm blown away how sharp and detailed even such low resolution can look. On 1024x768 display even low resolution textures look sharp (for example PS3 games), while on my 55'inch 4K tv even PS4 games have blury textures. If I could choose the perfect tv for games, it would be 42inch size and 1080p resolution.

 

[Zuzu]

Turn 10 have confirmed that it will be 4k 60fps on Series X and 1080p 60fps on Series S and there will be real time ray tracing on track:

https://www.purexbox.com/news/2022/...esolution-and-fps-revealed-for-xbox-series-xs

 

[Neo_game]

Look pretty close to the real thing to me

They did show day/night cylce in the end 6:05 in this video. Is that realistic ? To me this is too gamey, like a scifi action adventure, rpg game engine instead of realistic racing game

 

[Negotiator101]

They did show day/night cylce in the end 6:05 in this video. Is that realistic ? To me this is too gamey, like a scifi action adventure, rpg game engine instead of realistic racing game

I already gave you the scientific reason behind the orange glow, you chose to continue with its not realistic line, when in fact it is realistic as far as a game can be. You were also wrong about the base resolution so I again corrected you, but you ignored once again the facts. I wasn't trying to make you look silly but why continue with your line of thinking when you've been proven wrong?

 

[Riky]

Turn 10 have confirmed that it will be 4k 60fps on Series X and 1080p 60fps on Series S and there will be real time ray tracing on track:

https://www.purexbox.com/news/2022/...esolution-and-fps-revealed-for-xbox-series-xs

The little beast is coming into its own, some Devs were saying when we went next gen only and it had games built from the ground up it would help Series S and this initially seems to prove that to be true, going to be very interesting to see.

 

[Negotiator101]

The little beast is coming into its own, some Devs were saying when we went next gen only and it had games built from the ground up it would help Series S and this initially seems to prove that to be true, going to be very interesting to see.

Series S will certainly benefit from the next gen features T10 have designed the upgraded Forza Tech to utilise. VRS will enable better performance while not affecting the overall image quality. Forward+ rendering will again greatly improve performance as it only uses lights that are necessary and culls the ones that aren't.

 

[Lysandros]

On paper the SX is but in reality


More like 2060 Super/2070 in side by side real world performance testing and not just raw numbers

Both PS5 and XSX are slightly above RTX 2080 in GPU metrics besides RT throughput actually.

 

[onesvenus]

I mean GT6 still looks amazing while driving IMO - better than FMH5 in 60fps mode on XsX

Come on, this must be trolling now.
You can't really say that on a technical level with a straight face

 

[Snake29]

They did show day/night cylce in the end 6:05 in this video. Is that realistic ? To me this is too gamey, like a scifi action adventure, rpg game engine instead of realistic racing game

I've watches some Grid Legends footage and to me, Forza MS feels more like a grid legends game (same kinda colour pallet) then a GT competitor in that area. GT is using a way more realistic lighting over the track and cars. Some daytime races look less realistic in GT7 but most others look so great. But we have to see more of FMS.

FM looks a bit to colourful what makes it less realistic looking in the lighting.