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DF: The Touryst PS5 - The First 8K 60fps Console Game
- Thread starter Bullet Club
- Start date
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
Again, if you think the clocks allow the ps5 to double anything of the Xbox maximum you are silly. One being 8 and other being 6 doesn't change that. Ray's reasonable reason was they couldn't lock 60 at 8k so they went to the next standard down of 6k. Nothing outside of SSD related things will ever be double for the ps5 over Xbox assuming both are at maximum.
Edit
Gonna add if you believe that why isn't it 6k 120 on ps5 instead of both being 4k 120
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It's true that they might have went with 6K for a more stable framerate & it was the next best resolution to Super Sample from but at the same time we don't know the full story of why 6K has been the limit so far with Xbox Series X . PS5 also has faster internal bandwidth thanks to the higher clocks + the cache scrubbers & this could very well allow PS5 to perform much better in this game than Xbox Series X.
Bogroll
Likes moldy games
So should I expect games to have higher resolution on most my PS5 games when settings are the same than my SX from now on?
I say from now on as the systems have nearly been out a year and Devs must be more used to getting the best out of each system.
It will always depend on how the games are designed if a game is compute heavy it will hit PS5 TF limits 1st so it will have to have a lower resolution or lower settings on PS5 but if the game need higher pixel fill rates , higher internal bandwidth & so on it will hit Xbox Series X limits 1st.
I clearly tried to tell people about this stuff before the consoles even released but everyone thought I was crazy
If Microsoft don't use just the TFLOPS to compare Xbox Series X GPU to the Xbox One & Xbox One X why is everyone else using it to compare it to PS5 ?
They only claim a 4-6X raw GPU advantage over Xbox One while having 9X TFLOPS advantage , The triangles rate advantage is the part that bring it down to 4 -6X the raw GPU output & PS5 actually has the advantage in triangle & pixel fill rate so why do people keep using the Xbox Series X GPU...
40 CU 9.75 TFLOPs RX 5700 XT vs 64 CU 12.6 TFLOPs RX Vega 64 ( Different architectures but probably the best way to compare PS5 & Xbox SX for now)
Why RX 5700 XT vs RX Vega 64 & not RX 590 vs RX Vega 64? My reason for this is because RX 590 is ROP limited with 32 ROPs while RX 5700 XT has the same 64 ROPs as the RX Vega 64. RX 5700 XT is a newer architecture & benefit from that but at the same time I'm comparing it to the RX Vega 64 &...
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
All the 6k games were also launch titles. I don't think actual launch titles should be the gauge of anything for consoles.
A PC with a 3600 and a 1080 can run this game at 8k60 (so I've heard) and they don't have scrubbers.
I don't think any title running at it's best will ever be double for either over the other. None of the numbers add up to double anything GPU related. Small differences here and there make sense and will be the norm. Any outliers will be caused by some issue or just a logical step down that then will give one more overhead.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
ethomaz
Banned
I don’t think anything… the developer said it.
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ethomaz
Banned
Why you should expect that?
The developer was specifically talking about their engine and how they could reach 8k.
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Bogroll
Likes moldy games
It was just a general assumption.
Bogroll
Likes moldy games
Thank you for a explanation.It will always depend on how the games are designed if a game is compute heavy it will hit PS5 TF limits 1st so it will have to have a lower resolution or lower settings on PS5 but if the game need higher pixel fill rates , higher internal bandwidth & so on it will hit Xbox Series X limits 1st.
I clearly tried to tell people about this stuff before the consoles even released but everyone thought I was crazy
If Microsoft don't use just the TFLOPS to compare Xbox Series X GPU to the Xbox One & Xbox One X why is everyone else using it to compare it to PS5 ?
They only claim a 4-6X raw GPU advantage over Xbox One while having 9X TFLOPS advantage , The triangles rate advantage is the part that bring it down to 4 -6X the raw GPU output & PS5 actually has the advantage in triangle & pixel fill rate so why do people keep using the Xbox Series X GPU...www.neogaf.com
40 CU 9.75 TFLOPs RX 5700 XT vs 64 CU 12.6 TFLOPs RX Vega 64 ( Different architectures but probably the best way to compare PS5 & Xbox SX for now)
Why RX 5700 XT vs RX Vega 64 & not RX 590 vs RX Vega 64? My reason for this is because RX 590 is ROP limited with 32 ROPs while RX 5700 XT has the same 64 ROPs as the RX Vega 64. RX 5700 XT is a newer architecture & benefit from that but at the same time I'm comparing it to the RX Vega 64 &...
![[Sigma]](/data/avatars/m/701/701747.jpg?1685439978){kind=avatar}
[Sigma]
Member
Well damn looking back at that stuff, definitely a +1 for you in that argument.It will always depend on how the games are designed if a game is compute heavy it will hit PS5 TF limits 1st so it will have to have a lower resolution or lower settings on PS5 but if the game need higher pixel fill rates , higher internal bandwidth & so on it will hit Xbox Series X limits 1st.
I clearly tried to tell people about this stuff before the consoles even released but everyone thought I was crazy
If Microsoft don't use just the TFLOPS to compare Xbox Series X GPU to the Xbox One & Xbox One X why is everyone else using it to compare it to PS5 ?
They only claim a 4-6X raw GPU advantage over Xbox One while having 9X TFLOPS advantage , The triangles rate advantage is the part that bring it down to 4 -6X the raw GPU output & PS5 actually has the advantage in triangle & pixel fill rate so why do people keep using the Xbox Series X GPU...
40 CU 9.75 TFLOPs RX 5700 XT vs 64 CU 12.6 TFLOPs RX Vega 64 ( Different architectures but probably the best way to compare PS5 & Xbox SX for now)
Why RX 5700 XT vs RX Vega 64 & not RX 590 vs RX Vega 64? My reason for this is because RX 590 is ROP limited with 32 ROPs while RX 5700 XT has the same 64 ROPs as the RX Vega 64. RX 5700 XT is a newer architecture & benefit from that but at the same time I'm comparing it to the RX Vega 64 &...
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You're using Nvidia cards to say what Xbox Series X should be able to do without knowing the reason why Xbox Series X is hitting these limits.
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
Can you point to where the dev said the Xbox couldn't go above 6k. Thanks a bunch.
You are assuming it was a limit
I always tell Neogaf stuff ahead of time & get attacked by know-it-alls then I end up right then they act like it was all common knowledge
It clearly was some limit or they would have gone with 8K that would allow them to have a perfect 2x2 Super Sample for 4K . The fact that they went with 6K tells you that it was some limit that caused this. I'm not saying that they couldn't get 8K 60fps with more work but as for now we know that something made them go with 6K.
MasterCornholio
Member
Just seems like it's a bit odd for them to answer with the PS5s hardware if that wasn't the reason why they were able to hit 8K.
Can the Series hit 8K with this title? Sure but the developer made a decision to keep it at 6K for whatever reason. Only thing they mentioned was clocks and memory setup.
What the performance is at 8K on the XSX? Only the developers know the answer to that question. Im sure if it met their expectations there would be no reason to keep the game at 6K.
ethomaz
Banned
Are you for real? It was already posted several times.
The Touryst is the first 8K 60fps game for PS5
Shin'en Multimedia's brilliant game - The Touryst - is now available for PS4 and PS5 consoles and it is now confirmed a…
www.eurogamer.net
"All of which brings us onto the elephant in the room. The Touryst on Series X also has super-sampling down to 4K from a higher resolution, but it is 6K instead (5760x3240, to be precise). Bearing in mind how close the machines are, why is this the case? Typically, in the PC space, to get a faster GPU, manufacturers produce 'wider' designs that run at the same clocks as less capable parts - or even slower. Xbox Series X follows the same pattern. Its GPU runs at a slower clock, but should be more capable overall as it has many more compute units. Shin'en tells us that in the case of its engine, the increase to clock frequencies and the difference in memory set-up makes the difference. Beyond this, rather than just porting the PS4 version to PS5, Shin'en rewrote the engine to take advantage of PS5's low-level graphics APIs."
Dev was asked why the difference between Xbox 6k and PS5 8.
Dev straight up says "the increase to clock frequencies and the difference in memory set-up makes the difference".
You continue in denial lol
I get you want to defense the Xbox from everything but here the dev that said it... it is not an assumption you have to go crazy to deny it.
Just accept and move on.
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Werewolfgrandma
Banned
I'm not arguing it can do 8k60. I'm arguing 6k60 was the limit.
Hmm nope I don't see it saying they anywhere. Maybe you read it somewhere else?Are you for real? It was already posted several times.
The Touryst is the first 8K 60fps game for PS5
Shin'en Multimedia's brilliant game - The Touryst - is now available for PS4 and PS5 consoles and it is now confirmed a…
"All of which brings us onto the elephant in the room. The Touryst on Series X also has super-sampling down to 4K from a higher resolution, but it is 6K instead (5760x3240, to be precise). Bearing in mind how close the machines are, why is this the case? Typically, in the PC space, to get a faster GPU, manufacturers produce 'wider' designs that run at the same clocks as less capable parts - or even slower. Xbox Series X follows the same pattern. Its GPU runs at a slower clock, but should be more capable overall as it has many more compute units. Shin'en tells us that in the case of its engine, the increase to clock frequencies and the difference in memory set-up makes the difference. Beyond this, rather than just porting the PS4 version to PS5, Shin'en rewrote the engine to take advantage of PS5's low-level graphics APIs."
Dev was asked why the difference between Xbox 6k and PS5 8.
Dev straight up says "the increase to clock frequencies and the difference in memory set-up makes the difference".
You continue in denial lol
I get you want to defense the Xbox from everything but here the dev that said it... it is not an assumption you have to go crazy to deny it.
Just accept and move on.
Are you for real? It was already posted several times.
The Touryst is the first 8K 60fps game for PS5
Shin'en Multimedia's brilliant game - The Touryst - is now available for PS4 and PS5 consoles and it is now confirmed a…
"All of which brings us onto the elephant in the room. The Touryst on Series X also has super-sampling down to 4K from a higher resolution, but it is 6K instead (5760x3240, to be precise). Bearing in mind how close the machines are, why is this the case? Typically, in the PC space, to get a faster GPU, manufacturers produce 'wider' designs that run at the same clocks as less capable parts - or even slower. Xbox Series X follows the same pattern. Its GPU runs at a slower clock, but should be more capable overall as it has many more compute units. Shin'en tells us that in the case of its engine, the increase to clock frequencies and the difference in memory set-up makes the difference. Beyond this, rather than just porting the PS4 version to PS5, Shin'en rewrote the engine to take advantage of PS5's low-level graphics APIs."
Dev was asked why the difference between Xbox 6k and PS5 8.
Dev straight up says "the increase to clock frequencies and the difference in memory set-up makes the difference".
You continue in denial lol
They keep ignoring what was said by the devs & coming up with their own theory that exclude the PS5 having the better hardware / development environment for the dev to achieve 8K with a stable 60fps in the game.
No one said that 6K was the limit I'm saying that something limited them to 6K .
MilkyJoe
Member
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
I'm actually not doing that at all. I agree with it completely. I don't agree it allows for double the maximum resolution. Again if that was the case why isn't ps5 6k120. Technically it's pretty much exactly double 4k120
ethomaz
Banned
Wut?
If I have to guess due the CPU but that is another bootleneck... going from 60fps to 120fps more than double the CPU processing while increasing the resoltuion doesn't double the CPU processing... it increases the CPU but at a minor factor compared with doubling the FPS.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
He is just the developer of the game. WTF does he know.
Arioco
Member
Can you point where devs said PS5 can't reach 32K? They opted for 8K because they wanted to spare us the tantrum and the tears. They failed.
Repeat with me: "My piece of plastic is full RDNA 2 and can do 8K. I'm a winner".
Feel better now?
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Of course, it's not like PS5 is 2x ahead of XSX in this game. Unless there is a DRS involved, the devs are going to limit the game on the first available stop -- which is 6K from 8K.
The same thing happened with Hitman 3. From 2160p, the next step was around 1800p, so the devs locked the PS5 version to 1800p. It doesn't mean that there was a constant 20% difference b/w XSX and PS5 (as was evident with the FPS drops on XSX and locked 60 FPS on the PS5). But it's a very minor point.
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6K 120fps is 2,239,488,000 pixels per second
8K 60fps is 1,990,656,000 pixels per second
Close but not exactly the same
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Because 8k to 6k is 1.7 times the res maybe those consoles can't output 6k120 since it's even more.Your point now being if ps5 can output 8k60 why can't it output even more pixel/sec?
Because sure there doesn't seem to be a big difference between 1.7 and 2 times but it is still a substantial difference.
Maybe you are arguing that ps5 has even more headroom and can output even more than 8k60 but that doesn't seem to be your argument.
Honestly it just feels like the res difference stroke a nerve with you, because we got words from the dev, the whole DF video explaining the difference and you want to ps5 to do even more that all that because you based your comparison on erroneous numbers.Maybe just accept that for the game/engine the ps5 is better suited, wouldn't that be simpler ?
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
It's 4k120 just like Xbox
Well when you have morons like this
You can see how people think ps5 is twice as good at this engine.
Can you point where devs said PS5 can't reach 32K? They opted for 8K because they wanted to spare us the tantrum and the tears. They failed.
Repeat with me: "My piece of plastic is full RDNA 2 and can do 8K. I'm a winner".
Feel better now?
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
Xbox 6k60
Ps5 8k 60
Double res
Xbox and ps5 4k120
Why isn't ps5 6k120
That's double 4k120
You literally quoted me saying it was better suited
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Sure some people will misinterpret things and consider ps5 2x more powerful but why is it important to you ?
Beside I'm pretty sure it was sarcasm about your point that the dev limited the resolution arbitrarily to 6k when it could reach beyond....
Md Ray
Member
Wrong guess, my dude. Games that are already running at 60fps on last-gen base consoles don't have any issues running at 120fps on current-gen Zen 2-based consoles. From last-gen's best console (X1X) to XSX, the CPU jump is already 3-4x. It would be even greater than a 4x jump if you take PS4 into account which had the slowest Jaguar CPU.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Once again erroneous numbers 6k120 is more pixels/sec than 8k60 you also have to consider what those console are able to output, sure they can render pong a 16K120 but can they output it ?That is a major flaw in your logic there.
Edit:You also forget that the pixel filrate isn't everything there, if it was only about that then maybe ps5 could output it but there is way more to a game than that and halving frame times has obvious impact on other parts of the engine.The game isn't only about throwing pixels at the screen.
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ethomaz
Banned
I was guessing he was asking why a game that runs on 8k60 can't run in 4k120... if that was the case I can only guess that game reached a CPU bootleneck when in 4k120 that does not exists in 8k60 for obvivous reasons... that is what I replied.
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I just showed you the exact numbers showing you that 6K 120fps is a little more than 8K 60fps
Arioco
Member
My God. I didn't see anyone say PS5 is twice as powerful as Series X at this or any other engine.
All I know is that this games render at 8K on PS5 and at 6K on Series X (at that time 6K didn't upset anyone, in fact, since PS5 didn't have any game above 4K, we thought it was quite a feat for a console to display such high rez). Devs say higher clocks and memory configuration helped them get there.
That's where facts end and the drama and speculation begin. We don't know the reason why the devs opted for 6K on Series X. Maybe at 8K they got some drops under 60 fps and they capped it at a lower rez. Maybe Series X memory configuration requires some extra work or is somehow preventing them from reach a higher rez without compromising performance. Maybe they just didn't have enough time. We don't know, the devs didn't say the details, it's just pure speculation on our part. But there's no need to be upset guys, this is a fun little game and runs great on both machines.
Funny thins is that I'm sure 99% of the people on this tread couldn't tell them apart even if their lives depended on it (I definitely could not) . The only real reason we know there's some difference is because the devs told us.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Aren't the specification for hdmi2.1 capped at 8k60?
Edit: not that it would matter because I have no hope for 8k120 games this gen.
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ethomaz
Banned
HDMI 2.1 doesn't support 8k 120Hz without compression techs like DSC.
The max HDMI 2.1 supports without DSC is 8k 60fps in 4:2:0 or 10k 30fps in 4:2:2.
Anything over that will require more than 48Gbps (max supported by the HDMI 2.1 cable) and so require compression to archive it... btw to use DSC (compression) both sides requires to support it and it is paid (royalties to have the device supporting it).
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Bogroll
Likes moldy games
I'm getting mixed answers of Google.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
Well there seem to be some capable but I think there's compression involved, so maybe not ideal, that's why I'd stick with the specification and avoid those 8k120 because most of them seems to be from shady chinese sources.
ethomaz
Banned
He is right... I explained better but the cable is capped to 48Gbps.
You can go over 8k60 4:2:0 with DSC (compression).
8k120 4:2:0 requires close to 3x the bandwidth allowed by HDMI 2.1 cable.
A full table of supported resolutions of HDMI 2.1.
Ultra# in red are only achievable via DSC.
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Md Ray
Member
I know what you meant to say, but do keep in mind that any game running at 60fps on a Jaguar CPU console cannot and will not be bottlenecked by the CPU when targeting just twice the frame rate (120) of that on the new Zen 2 machines. Btw, the game is 4K120 on both XSX/PS5, he was asking why it can't do 6K120, but A azertydu91 gave an answer to that in the post #734.
yewles1
Member
Even if it could, HDMI spec wouldn't show it.
yewles1
Member
12.5% more to be exact.
tommib
Member
You heard it here first, people. Kill your consoles. No hope for 8K120 this generation. What's the point of it all then? Gaming is dead. No hope, no future.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
FranXico
Member
Both versions are supersampled to 4K, neither should have any perceivable aliasing. Can't comment on the shadows and DoF.