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DF: The Touryst PS5 - The First 8K 60fps Console Game

Bullet Club

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Internally rendering at 'full fat' 7680x4320 and running flat out at 60 frames per second, Shin'en Multimedia's The Touryst is officially the first 8K game of the new console generation. In this video, John Linneman and Rich Leadbetter discuss the game, how 8K benefits a 4K screen and how game could actually deliver full 8K... if and when Sony updates PS5 to support it. And beyond that... just what kind of games could the PS5 and Series X deliver at 8K and fundamentally, is it worth it?
 

ethomaz

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I know off topic.

But every time I see threads with that title makes me really miss Tourist Trophy.




Why? why? why?
 
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Elios83

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Is that just internal rendering atm right?
PS5 output is currently limited at 4k.
So basically we're getting a high quality downsampling.
Sony needs to upgrade the PS5 video output with 8k and VRR. The VRR update for their TVs seems to be rolling out right now.
 

Fake

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Wait sonic colours is supposed to be 8k60?

I said Origins, not Colors.

Sonic Origins will be a pack with Sonic 1, Sonic 2, S3&K in 2022. There are rumors over be doing by Taxman, and if so the chances of we getting a 8k60 are high taking into consideration the work and dedication those guys do.
 
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reksveks

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Is that just internal rendering atm right?
PS5 output is currently limited at 4k.
So basically we're getting a high quality downsampling.
Sony needs to upgrade the PS5 video output with 8k and VRR. The VRR update for their TVs seems to be rolling out right now.
Yeah

BTW I thought there are 8k games on Series X already.
Both ori and touryst was/are 6k
 

reksveks

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Very interesting.

PS5 can render at 8k thanks to the higher GPU clockspeed vs 6k at the Series X according to the developer. Bigger difference than Hitman 3, I assume?

Cerny redeemed?
Possibly or could be similar to Call of The Sea where it is largely of a factor of having more time to optimize.

Did Call of The Sea ever get fixed on PC? That had performance issues even on my 3080
 
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azertydu91

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I said Origins, not Colors.

Sonic Origins will be a pack with Sonic 1, Sonic 2, S3&K in 2022. There are rumors over be doing by Taxman, and if so the chances of we getting a 80k60 are high taking into consideration the work and dedication those guys do.
Yeaeh I noticed and edited after rereading your post, sorry man I'm not myself today.I'll try to reread if I feel the need to post again
 
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Fake

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Two interess points:

- John talk to the guy behind this game
- Two reasons for PS5 output 8k60:
- The GPU clock
- Touryst is not a PS4 BC game, rather a native PS5 app, so taking advance of PS5 graphics API.
- Turning on AA (SSAA) reduce the resolution of native 8k to native 4k
 
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skit_data

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Possibly or could be similar to Call of The Sea where it is largely of a factor of having more time to optimize.
Yeah, they probably could get it to 8k on Series X but it does kinda contradict some peoples statements that more CUs always are preferrable to clockspeed and reaffirms Cernys statement that a high clockspeed is more beneficial to more CUs if FLOPs are equal.
 

ethomaz

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Two interess points:

- John talk to the guy behind this game
- Two reasons for PS5 output 8k60:
- The GPU clock
That is really interesting and in line with what Cerny said last year.
6k to 8k is double de pixels.

- Active AA reduce the native 8k for native 4k
It is a good tradeoff... the supersample 8k to 4k will already work as AA.
 
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reksveks

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Yeah, they probably could get it to 8k on Series X but it does kinda contradict some peoples statements that more CUs always are preferrable to clockspeed and reaffirms Cernys statement that a high clockspeed is more beneficial to more CUs if FLOPs are equal.
Think it will depends on engines but its largely a wash, yeah.
 
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SlimySnake

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Lol Imagine if this video had come out last week when we were discussing the advantages the PS5 might have with its higher clock speeds.

I am guessing one of these things are helping this particular game help hit higher resolutions. Though i still wont declare victory yet. Not every game seems to be benefiting from higher clocks like this. At the end of the day, tflops are still the best metric for ingame performance.

 

Arioco

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Devs told DF that higher clocks allowed them to hit 8K vs 6K on Series X.

PS5 also has better Depth of Field compared to Series X with less artifacts.

Shadows quality was also boosted on PS5.

60 fps and 120 fps are both flawless.

On PS4 Pro it uses DRS, so it may be 4K in indoors areas but outdoors is between 1440p and 1510p.

On PS4 it's almost a locked 1080p.


So well, I guess narrow and fast can beat wide and slow in some instances after all. 🤷‍♂️
 
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Fafalada

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Just to get this out of the way - but 8k in this game brought a 2080ti down on my PC.
IIRC I could barely get to mid-point(6k or whatever that's called) without dropping into 40-50fps range.

So yea - Alex alert :p

So well, I guess narrow and fast can beat wide and slow in some instances after all. 🤷‍♂️
See👆
 
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sncvsrtoip

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Devs told DF that higher clocks allowed them to hit 8K vs 6K on Series X.

PS5 also has better Depth of Field compared to Series X with less artifacts.

Shadows quality was also boosted on PS5.

60 fps and 120 fps are both flawless.

On PS4 Pro uses DRS, so it may be 4K in indoors areas but outdoors is between 1440p and 1510p.

On PS4 is almost a locked 1080p.


So well, I guess narrow and fast can beat wide and slow in some instances after all. 🤷‍♂️
So ps5 is generating like 8x more pixels internal than ps4 pro, biggest diff I’ve ever seen
 
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SlimySnake

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Just to get this out of the way - but 8k in this game brought a 2080ti down on my PC.
IIRC I could barely get to mid-point(6k or whatever that's called) without dropping into 40-50fps range.

So yea - Alex alert :p


See👆
2080Ti goes up to 2.0 Ghz right? What were your clocks at? Was the GPU being maxed out?

2080Ti is roughly 35% faster than the 2080 which is roughly on par with the PS5 in some AMD sponsored games like AC Valhalla. Never seen the PS5 perform like a 2080 Ti though.

Were you using max settings? Sometimes consoles use medium to high settings.
 
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ethomaz

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So well, I guess narrow and fast can beat wide and slow in some instances after all. 🤷‍♂️
It is the same for any processor.
Clocks beat more cores... that was already a think in CPUs with multicores two decades ago (4Ghz single-core CPU runs better than 2Ghz dual-core CPU from the same arch).

But it doesn't exactly apply directly to PS5 vs Series X because the TFs are not the same.

What we can say is that the PS5 with 10.3TFs using highers clocks is indeed faster than a PS5 with 10.3TFs with lower clocks.
Now comparing with a 12TFs with lower clock I believe the 12TFs will have the advantage yet.

Of course that is only comparing GPU power.
 
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LordBlodgett

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8k is a pretty cool achievement, but it would be way cooler if you could actually output at that resolution. I'm sure that will be coming soon. As a side note, if you haven't played this game yet I highly recommend it. It is a really fun game with a cool little story that actually has really gorgeous affects over very basic style graphics.
 

01011001

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Very interesting.

PS5 can render at 8k thanks to the higher GPU clockspeed vs 6k at the Series X according to the developer. Bigger difference than Hitman 3, I assume?

Cerny redeemed?

this is a forward rendered game with little to no post processing and no complex shading.

it's an edge case. almost no other game nowadays works like this.

it's like how the PS2 can theoretically push multiple times more polygons than the GameCube, but that didn't take into account shading them, and as soon as you want to do that the GameCube runs circles around the PS2
 

M1chl

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Lol Imagine if this video had come out last week when we were discussing the advantages the PS5 might have with its higher clock speeds.

I am guessing one of these things are helping this particular game help hit higher resolutions. Though i still wont declare victory yet. Not every game seems to be benefiting from higher clocks like this. At the end of the day, tflops are still the best metric for ingame performance.

Resolution has nothing to do with number of triangles....

Edit: Never mind Pixels Fillrate is there, which is in res correlation.
 

Arioco

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So ps5 is generating like 8x more pixels internal than ps4 pro, biggest diff I’ve ever see


Yes, this is the biggest difference I've seen. There are other cases where the difference could be 1080p vs 4K (Guilty Gear Strive) or 4K CB at 30 fps vs native 4K at 60 fps (Death Stranding), so around 4X, but this time the difference is even bigger. Apparently it's a native PS5 app and they scaled it down for PS4 and PS4 Pro.

And compared to PS4 it's a massive difference too, 1080p@60 fps vs 8K@60fps is 16X.
 
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skit_data

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this is a forward rendered game with little to no post processing and no complex shading.

it's an edge case. almost no other game nowadays works like this.

it's like how the PS2 can theoretically push multiple times more polygons than the GameCube, but that didn't take into account shading them, and as soon as you want to do that the GameCube runs circles around the PS2
Yes of course its an edge case and not applicable across the board, but I still can’t shake the feeling it can be considered relevant since most games exhibit nigh on identical res and performance in the two consoles despite the TFLOPs difference.
 

ethomaz

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That'd be 55.66% more pixels.

I disagree with this type of calculation but that's how people do it here on GAF often.
?

6k to 8k is 2x more pixels... or 100% more pixels.
4k to 8k is 4x more pixels... or 300% more pixels.

I have not ideia where are you getting 55.66%.

8k its 2.2x more pixels than 6k if I calculated correctly ;) edit: or 1.77x found two different res described as 6k
Well when you compare the normal 8k with normal 4k.

You need to use the 19:6 aspect ratio:

8k 16:9: 7680x4320
6k 16:9: 5568x3132 (it is not a standard... so maybe Series X uses another 6k 16:9 res)
 
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onnextflix5

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No wonder many games are running better on ps5, could be even better if sony let go of some of cpu and memory reservations.
 
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Reallink

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Devs told DF that higher clocks allowed them to hit 8K vs 6K on Series X.

PS5 also has better Depth of Field compared to Series X with less artifacts.

Shadows quality was also boosted on PS5.

60 fps and 120 fps are both flawless.

On PS4 Pro uses DRS, so it may be 4K in indoors areas but outdoors is between 1440p and 1510p.

On PS4 is almost a locked 1080p.


So well, I guess narrow and fast can beat wide and slow in some instances after all. 🤷‍♂️

1440p on Pro, 8K on PS5, LOLWAT? That's like a 10x differential, something doesn't add up here.
 

jroc74

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Very interesting.

PS5 can render at 8k thanks to the higher GPU clockspeed vs 6k at the Series X according to the developer. Bigger difference than Hitman 3, I assume?

Cerny redeemed?
Welp.

Lol Imagine if this video had come out last week when we were discussing the advantages the PS5 might have with its higher clock speeds.

I am guessing one of these things are helping this particular game help hit higher resolutions. Though i still wont declare victory yet. Not every game seems to be benefiting from higher clocks like this. At the end of the day, tflops are still the best metric for ingame performance.

No need to declare victory. Maybe...just maybe...... now some ppl will sit down and for once try to be more open minded.

Devs told DF that higher clocks allowed them to hit 8K vs 6K on Series X.

PS5 also has better Depth of Field compared to Series X with less artifacts.

Shadows quality was also boosted on PS5.

60 fps and 120 fps are both flawless.

On PS4 Pro uses DRS, so it may be 4K in indoors areas but outdoors is between 1440p and 1510p.

On PS4 is almost a locked 1080p.


So well, I guess narrow and fast can beat wide and slow in some instances after all. 🤷‍♂️
Exactly. Wont be all, but....the narrative that was running rampant over the past 2+ years and counting was wild.
 
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Heisenberg007

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6k to 8k is 2x more pixels... or 100% more pixels.
4k to 8k is 4x more pixels... or 300% more pixels.

I have not ideia where are you getting 55.66%.
6K (or 21.2 million pixels) vs. 8K (30 million pixels). The percentage change difference (increase) would be 55%, I think?

I could be wrong though honestly, I'm fucking tired pulling data and preparing all the presentations since morning.
 

SlimySnake

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Yes, this is the biggest difference I've seen. There are other cases where the difference could be 1080p vs 4K (Guilty Gear Strive) or 4K CB at 30 fps vs native 4K at 60 fps (Death Stranding), so around 4X, but this time the difference is even bigger. Apparently it's a native PS5 app and they scaled it down for PS4 and PS4 Pro.

And compared to PS4 it's a massive difference too, 1080p@60 fps vs 8K@60fps is 16X.
I have always felt that the Jaguar CPUs in the PS4 held the GPU back in many ways. The GPU had to do more heavy lifting in 60 FPS games than they would with a similar GPU on PCs with better CPUs. Those Uncharted 4 hacks that had the game running at 60 fps were only able to get to 60 fps by reducing the resolution down to 560p. 1/4 resolution drop instead of 1/2 it would take on PCs to get double the FPS.

The PS5 GPU also has 1.5x IPC gains compared to the GCN 1.0 PS4 GPU, but that still puts the PS5 at around 15 GCN 1.0 Tflops. I'd expect an 8x resolution boost. 16x is mind boggling and is probably mostly due to the 8x more powerful CPU.
 

Delco Airsoft

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Is that just internal rendering atm right?
PS5 output is currently limited at 4k.
So basically we're getting a high quality downsampling.
Sony needs to upgrade the PS5 video output with 8k and VRR. The VRR update for their TVs seems to be rolling out right now.
I'm pretty sure it can handle 8K output if you have an 8k display. I think the PS5 box says 8k? I can't remember.
 

ethomaz

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6K (or 21.2 million pixels) vs. 8K (30 million pixels). The percentage change difference (increase) would be 55%, I think?

I could be wrong though honestly, I'm fucking tired pulling data and preparing all the presentations since morning.
If you decrease the 8k pixels and increase the 6x pixeks I guess.

8k = 7680x4320 = 33.177.600 (standard res in 16:9 called 8K UHD)
6x = 5760x3240 = 18.662.400 (not a standard res in 16:9 but that is the middle between 8k and 4k that are standards)
5k = 5120x2880 = 14.745.600 (standard res in 16:9 called 5k)
4k = 3840x2160 = 8.294.400 (standard res in 16:9 called 4k UHD)

BTW 8k = 2x6k = 4x4k = 16x2k.
 
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AGRacing

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1440p on Pro, 8K on PS5, LOLWAT? That's like a 10x differential, something doesn't add up here.

An RDNA2 teraflop is not the same thing as an old GCN / RX 480 architecture teraflop. You get a lot more out of a lot less with RDNA2... especially in certain types of workload. These systems are much more powerful than comparing teraflops between generations would indicate.

Wait until mesh shaders and other tricks are utilized to their full potential.
 
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Clear

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Interesting and I have to admit a bit of an unexpected result. As noted the PS5's narrower but faster setup would seem to be more fillrate constrained than, so one can only assume that its making up the defecit with SX gpu by being faster in other areas.

On reflection, I'm wondering if they have tapped into the whole geometry engine aspect for more efficient object culling and polygon decimation? The visual style of the game I suspect might be very friendly to some sort of low-level technique to omit hidden faces - saving a lot of draw time in the process.
 
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