Werewolfgrandma
Banned
Ruin is such a strong word. Let's say in 2 years the on paper results is what we get. They are still going to be very comparable systems with a few advantages in either direction.
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DF: Control PS5 Vs Xbox Series X Raytracing Benchmark
- Thread starter AnotherOne
- Start date
Negotiator101
Member
It's horses for courses, getting the information for instance regarding settings of the console version's, can eliminate any guess work when comparing. If it is more precise then that's something DF can work on. But overall they have the more informative analysis IMO.
Sure it would seem so. no one knows if this will bite their ass or allow them to do who knows what.The funny thing is that on both sides we are not seeing any benefit from their investment choices at the moment. The Xbox loads at virtually the same speed and many times albeit minimally more quickly !! The same goes for the ps5 gpu it should be inferior but the xsx still can't clearly demonstrate this and in many games the ps5 albeit minimally performs better. Really funny lol
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TBiddy
Member
Could be a cost measure. They, I hope for Microsofts sake, spent more money on the SSD than Microsoft did and needed to cut costs elsewhere.
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
Same analogy with the food. I buy better steak and you buy a better variety of sides. Sometimes the better steak will be more successful to my guest and sometimes the better sides will be.
Topher
Gold Member
Bumblebeetuna
Member
1300+ replies for a simple GPU test 
MasterCornholio
Member
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
You keep going to big. Worst case scenario for ps is the games are slightly lower res.
muteZX
Banned
Same-same, but different. BOM is the answer .. "Jim Ryan had to stop Sony engineers from making a $1000 PS5."
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phil_t98
#SonyToo
You couldn’t get any more different lol
Concern
Member
How it started1300+ replies for a simple GPU test
But its just "lolz photomode"
"Who plays games on photomode lolz"
"This means nothing"
Now its
"I can't wait for vgtech and Nxgamer to do an analysis" of "just photomode"
And yet here we are, almost 30 pages in.
No consistency
TBiddy
Member
No, I mean that I hope Microsoft didn't spend as much money on their SSD solution as Sonys, since Sonys implementation seems to be much better... so if they spent the same amount of money on it, Microsoft would look rather dumb in comparison.
ethomaz
Banned
They really cost the same?
Sony has a $400 machine with everything except the BD drive that should cost at max $20.
We don't have the real BOM for MS or Sony but most estimates put the Series X hardware costing more than PS5.
IMO.
PS5 DE is being selling at some marjor loss ($460-470?).
PS5 with drive is break even ($480-490?).
Series X is being selling at some small loss ($510-520?).
Series S is break even ($280-290?).
That explain why Sony produce less DE consoles.
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alabtrosMyster
Banned
They told the truth,but DF didn't do the analysis, which caused them to not take notice that the series consoles did not load all the assets for whatever reason and this seems to have affected the performance of the game.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
your guessing at xbox cost, we know sony looses money but there has been nothing as yet on Microsofts cost
do you have evidence to say sony produce less DE consoles?
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ethomaz
Banned
There are some rumors back in the launch from retails DE allocation was about 30% of the shipment.
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phil_t98
#SonyToo
so only rumours then, can't post it as fact just yet. if anything if you think logically they would produce more DE as they make more money on the game sales
adding to that I dont know what the split between X/S is either
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ethomaz
Banned
lol like a clockwork.
This is from some Gamestop preorders, it is from 9 stores in US plus the Canada allocation (19,000 Standard Edition and 3,000 Digital Edition).
PS5 retailers have many fewer Digital Edition systems for preorder [Updated]
Only about one-quarter of GameStop stock is the cheaper, disc-drive-free system.
arstechnica.com
Your "logically" doesn't make sense because Sony lose too much money with DE... that is why they produce less units.
Of course when the production get cheaper thought the years and there is demand they could start to have more DE being produced.
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phil_t98
#SonyToo
lol like a clockwork.
This is from some Gamestop preorders, it is from 9 stores in US plus the Canada allocation (19,000 Standard Edition and 3,000 Digital Edition).
PS5 retailers have many fewer Digital Edition systems for preorder [Updated]
Only about one-quarter of GameStop stock is the cheaper, disc-drive-free system.
Your "logically" doesn't make sense because Sony lose too much money with DE... that is why they produce less units.
like clockwork?
you went from rumour to finding an article. cool you found it
ethomaz
Banned
Your always is not true because doesn't fit my agenda lol
It is not only that article a lot of gamers reported that retail they go have less DE allocation... it is basically a know thing.
I can't even understand how your are disputing that.
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phil_t98
#SonyToo
no you basically blinded by your own agenda, like I said you said rumour. then you provided fact which is cool. no problem
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I'm not really familiar with Series X load times in general, but does it have many games that are as quick as Astrobot, Nioh, Spider-Man/Miles, Demon's Souls and Sackboy, to name a few? All these load nearly instantaneous, while most multiplats take longer. I think it's save to say there is hardly any optimization at place when it comes to loading multiplats. The raw speed difference is there.
ethomaz
Banned
Rumor because it was real people saying how it was in the stores near them... the stores where putting the allocation on the entrance of the stores.... there are even pics but I can't check if it was true or not.
The article was just 5 seconds Google... the first results.
The fact is that everybody reported the DE allocation was way smaller than the PS5 standard.
Maybe you find the Eurogamer report a better source (I just go down on the results on Google)... that is now about UK retails specifically.
PlayStation 5 Digital Edition stock far lower than standard PS5, sources say
Sony's £450 PlayStation 5 sold out fast when pre-orders opened last week. But pre-orders for the £360 PlayStation 5 Dig…
www.eurogamer.net
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Musky_Cheese
Banned
Finally reading thru this thread
phil_t98
#SonyToo
right rumour doesn't mean its true. lots of rumours go around but never proven. if you had actually said that it was fact then I would of believed you. like I said you then googled it and provided an article on it which was fact cool.
you do know the difference between rumour and fact dont you
AnotherOne
Member
Neo1300+ replies for a simple GPU test
Am i confusing something? Isn't the PS5 setup more in line towards the future of games development?
About twenty games currently support Quick resume ... the console can save the status of 4/6 games and load them instantly (even after unplugging the console from the electrical outlet). I'm who firmly believes in hw specs and as i believe that the xsx gpu is superior i would be foolish to say that the ps5 ssd is not superior. But I was ironic about how neither console is managing for one reason or another, to show 100% their respective peculiarities.
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CityHunter1981
Member
Well, Battlefield 6 will be very physics intensive, so I am pretty sure it will be close again between PS5 and XBOX Series X.
Was Phil perhaps a fan of the Atari Jaguar? They always used the slogan „do the math“ in their marketing because of their 64 Bit architecture, but it proved that the system was not nearly as powerful as the completion with their lower bit numbers.
skit_data
Member
I always think of her face when someone says ”its simple math” or something similar
Instantly? Has this been updated? I've seen a few demo's on YT, but it still takes around 10 seconds to switch.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I think we are going to see a lot of Control and Hitman like comparisons going forward. Games where the xbox has an advantage but it doesnt materialize due to a 30 fps lock like in Control, and in games like Hitman where the advantage is likely minimal but due to various constraints on the PS5, the devs had to settle for a resolution much lower than what the PS5 is likely capable of.
So 30 fps identical settings, and native 4k vs 1800p should be the norm going forward.
The PS5 ssd might allow for higher level detail in some games, but that remains to be scene.
FatKingBallman
Banned
Lol. It has nothing to do with plastic box favorism. WTF is that crap. It's already tested. You read VGTecha analysis description about frame rate in every milisecond category, torn frames and what not. Also, it's not the first time that VGTech measured resolution lower than DF could, like in Gears 5 on X1X. DF couldn't measure 1080p nor they didn't found that Gears 5 uses reconstruction technique, VGTech did.
Don't know about HDMI 2.1. But nevertheless, very few games on current gen consoles are above 1080p at 120fps.
Of course DF is more informative because they are doing graphics analysis besides fps count, VGTech don't. Regarding performance mesures, VGTech is better there
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Bryank75
Banned
Series X chips have almost twice the wafer cost / space of a PS5 one, yet the performance seems to be very tight, with PS5 having some advantages in some cases and SX in others.
I just question the efficiency of using so much wafer per console, as it has constrained their production somewhat.
I just question the efficiency of using so much wafer per console, as it has constrained their production somewhat.
MasterCornholio
Member
Finally reading thru this thread
I only wish we could submit this thread as a meme. Because we would all win gold and be cursed with auto update.
MasterCornholio
Member
Plus Microsoft has to produce two different kind of chips. That's has to constrain their supply somewhere.
MasterCornholio
Member
That's what Sony is betting on with the I/O. Remains to be seen if it will happen though but the Unreal Demo shows what might be possible.
Superayate
Member
Twice ? Where this number come from ?
Bryank75
Banned
Just from the amount of CU's and what I remember of the tear downs. maybe 1/3 bigger id more accurate but it takes more silicon anyway.
Neo_game
Member
Hitman3 uses only 4.5gb Vram on a PC and although looks great. It is not gfx intensive game so I do not see how that can be used as an example of what it is to come. Cyberpunk 2077, Control, Unreal5 tech demo are not most optimized but more gfx intensive and better example about the performance of these console. David cage aslo said we might get 1080P with decent RT on consoles. My guess is 1440P. At least ambitious games wanting to achieve high fidelity gfx will be at this range. DSR or some resolution scaling will be used. Though you are probably right about the 30fps locked sceanrio I guess. Even if one console can ran say 10-15% faster it will still be 30fps vsynced on both. That is how it has been in past and it is unlikely to change.
sncvsrtoip
Member
and I think most modern games will use dynamic resolution and differences will be small to the end of this generation (btw it's not that there is ps5 advantage over xsx in Control during gameplay because there is 30fps cap but because from some reason there is stutter on xsx and would check this tearing in phototmode, couse even tough 16% avarage difference make sense there is clear tearing not takken into account)
Superayate
Member
I was asking because twice was clearly enormous from my point of view, I think yes 33% is more realistic (possible that's a little too high also, I think it will be more around 20/25%). With a chip of 308mm2 vs 360mm2, you win 14% of area by chip, but per wafer, you'll produce more around 11/12% of dies. For the yield, do we clearly know if Sony deactivate some CUs (seems 4 between 40 CUs) as it is the case for MS with XsX die? (2 dual CUs desactivated, as it is probably the case with the PS5 one) ? With the smaller die size already over 300mm2 and the size difference, XsX die yield should be lower but I don't think the difference will really be very important.
ethomaz
Banned
Well makes some difference...
$12000 / 100 = $120
$12000 / 120 = $100
The biggest point is the bigger the chip more % of bad chips you have and the extremities of the Wafer have big lost too.
I will do some better maths later when I get home.
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polybius80
Member
RAM specs are not going to improve because you use <insert algorithm to manage data>
SFS....RTX 3070 speed comparisons....Mesh Shader... Direct ML none of that is going to change the RAM specs of the console, whatever you want to use may help reduce your requirements in certain conditions but your hardware stays the same, "improving RAM" has a different meaning and implications, its important to make it clear what all those buzzwords mean and what they reffer to is really doing, what is hardware that helps to those algorithms and what is software that can be improved or changed later, otherwise people start giving it properties they don't have and we have a new MR. X, also its important to nothe that the buzzwords refer to algorithms some can be replicated so just because there are no buzzwords it doenst mean there are not similar tech behind
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Superayate
Member
Yeah sure. Was not saying that the difference is not important, but simply that the difference can't be 100%
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
reposts tweets from kids about console wars
Superayate
Member
Yep, I agree. But to be honest, we use to remove not only the die that are not complete at the extremities of the wafer, but also some "rows" (don't find my words, I'm tired), because we use to have a lots of time the dies near the border working too much worst than the ones in the center (it is more visible with Analog dedicated chip, but we saw lower frequencies, higher voltage needed etc...). There is also the pattern raw/column around the chip (between the sealring of each chip) where the cut will be done that take more area in the wafer with smaller chip, this part is sometimes underestimated (obviously, with die with such size, that's less important).
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Tickle My Tendies
Member
It's always the same people saying the same shit. In every analysis thread it's the exact discussion from the previous, exact discussion that will be in the next one. Watch. Quote reply some of the posts from this thread and then quote reply posts from whatever the next head-to-head is (what's the next big multi-plat release?) and they will be almost identical.
It's always the same. After a few pages it isn't about the game performance anymore and just the same "my silicon vs your silicon," "my specs vs your specs" talk that has been recycled and regurgitated since the summer. These people can't let it go.
I kinda laugh when I see replies saying "Wow, X replies for a X" as if it hasn't happened every single time since November. Why are people still surprised by this? Every analysis thread will get 1k+ replies. Period. Freaking Dirt 5 might be the most discussed game of the year so far and no one here even played it.
Concern
Member
I honestly don't even care more than to just have a good laugh. It makes my time at go by a lot fasterp, especially at work. I play games not specs. Now if we had massive differences like for example a quality mode with 60fps vs 30fps on the other, that'd be a big deal imo.
The df conspiracy theories also pop up every thread.... except when Playstation performs better lol. Its so stupid and ridiculous tbh. But I do enjoy a good laugh.