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Business Insider: 'Halo Infinite' struggling

Kagey K

Member
You guys are missing the brilliant step MS made here.

They hooked players on the multiplayer on Steam, and then offered the campaign free on gamepass. It got many steam users to switch to the windows store the day campaign came out (look at the numbers) Now they are Windows Halo players not Steam Halo players.

Now those guys have gone from hardcore Steam users to also using the Windows store, even though they swore they wouldn't.

It was a great tactic to convert some people over, and I expect them to continue using it
 
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DForce

Member
You guys are missing the brilliant step MS made here.

They hooked players on the multiplayer on Steam, and then offered the campaign free on gamepass. It got many steam users to switch to the windows store the day campaign came out (look at the numbers) Now they are Windows Halo players not Steam Halo players.

Now those guys have gone from hardcore Steam users to also using the Windows store, even though they swore they wouldn't.

It was a great tactic to convert some people over, and I expect them to continue using it

Uh, what? lol

Their tactic was to make Halo MP a F2P title so that they can generate money as a GaaS title. The reality is that they couldn't retain players on PC.
 

Kagey K

Member
Uh, what? lol

Their tactic was to make Halo MP a F2P title so that they can generate money as a GaaS title. The reality is that they couldn't retain players on PC.
The reality is they converted people from Steam to the Windows store the day the campaign came out, once they have the windows version MS gets all money instead of giving the steam cut

This isn't hard to see or figure out, unless you try to be obtuse about it
 

isoRhythm

Banned
Are BF2042 and COD playable at no additional cost on game pass on something that isn't Steam? 🤔

It's not that Steam doesn't tell the whole picture. In this case, Steam is likely the smallest part of the picture, likely by far.
That makes no sense... Wouldn't/Shouldn't the free game have far more players than the non-free game?

Remember it's at no additional cost on Steam either.

Game needs to put the S in GaaS asap.
 
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Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
I believe it was 1st or 2nd when it launched and then it was 5th during the month of January.

It's currently dropped to 6th. Curious to see what the numbers are 4 months from now.
Its been a while since Halo Reach, that a Halo game had more concurrent players than the latest COD game. And that with a barebone launch without Co-Op or Forge. Many people are still waiting for Forge to drop.
Too bad they lost Bungie now. Halo is likely hopeless without the og creators.
Halo did not evolve enough it actually went backwards to its roots, not sure how many people you can sell nostalgia to. Especially when the og creators with their current ip(destiny) literally laid out the road map on how to evolve Halo.
Hardly any of the OG Halo devs are still working in Bungie. No one cares about PvP in Destiny, stop pretending that its an evolution of Halo. Also Halo Infinite did manage to evolve Halo's gameplay while still retaining its identity and look modern. Nothing about it felt old.
I didn't make this post in haste because I wanted to be completely sure I knew what I was talking about before discussing this topic. Here are the OG Halo devs that are still working for Bungie.
Jason Jones - Does he even make games anymore? After Halo 2 he stopped getting actively involved in game development and took the role of studio management. But in 2013 he scrapped the original version of Destiny because it was "too linear", made a team called "Iron Bar" lead by Christopher Barrett to release the Year 1 version of Destiny. After that he let others like Luke Smith lead the game and resigned himself from game development again.

The new writers that were bought in after the original writing team left preferred Staten's original story and put it in the Grimoire Cards. A lot of the leaks from the original version of Destiny coincide with revelations in Shadowkeep, so the story is still being based on some lore blueprint left behind by Staten. The backstory of Savathun(antagonist of Witch Queen) was first provided in Book of Sorrows and it also hinted about "The Final Shape" which is supposed the last expansion of Destiny 2 and is supposedly where the original 10 year story ends.
Michael Salvatori - While Halo's music is attributed Marty O'Donell, many iconic tracks like A Walk In The Woods had the involvement of Michael Salvatori providing assistance to Marty. Michael Salvatori appeared in many interviews alongside and acted as his assistant.

I liked Destiny 1 music more than Destiny 2 music(but Destiny 2 music had its moments). Destiny 1 music had this "mysterious tone" that Destiny 2 lost and was more focused in "heroism". Bungie used Marty's Music of the Spheres in Destiny 1 without crediting him which led to lawsuits. I see a lot of the OG Halo devs like Marty, Marcus Lehto(designed the original prototype of Destiny) or Joe Staten never mention Destiny but happily talk about Halo.
Christopher Barrett - Not involved with Destiny since Rise of Iron. Has been working on a new IP.
Lars Bakken - Halo 3 Multiplayer Designer and Halo Reach Co-op lead
Tyson Green - aka Ferrex
Chris Butcher - Management and overseeing new IP
Ben Wallace - Seems to be working with Chris Butcher
Zach Russell - QA/Programming and Tech
These four joined after they left Microsoft and the OG trilogy, had minor roles in ODST/Reach but major roles later in Destiny
Alex Pfeiffer - Designer in Halo ODST/Reach. Now Design Lead.
Derek Carrol - Credited as a multiplayer designer in Halo Reach and "... And the Rest of the Bungie Crew" in ODST. Now Senior Designer.
Mark Noseworthy - Engineering Producer at Halo Reach, but was already Gameplay and Campaign preproducer in Destiny at the time. Now Vice President.
James Tsai - Designer of Firefight in Halo Reach. Now Director of Witch Queen.

These people were not Halo devs but still part of old Bungie studio.
Pete Parsons - Then Studio Head, now CEO. Had the same role that Bonnie Ross now does at 343i.
Luke Smith - Every Destiny fan knows this guy. He was originally a freelance writer for Kotaku and then a news editor at 1up.com. He was known for his lengthy article focusing on problems in Halo 2. He joined Bungie in 2007 as a for writing the Bungie.net content updates. He became a Design Lead in Destiny and Game Director in Destiny 2.
LinkedIn mentions 1154 people working in Bungie. So barely 1% of the OG Halo crew is still working in Destiny. Not a single person from the OG writing team has remained, although quite a few engineering/tech leads are here. Its very disingenuous to try to pretend you have the "original developers of Halo who launched the Xbox" without any of the recognizable names like Joseph Staten, Marcus Lehto, Marty O'Donell or Max Hoberman(I get Jason Jones, but he has resigned himself from game development anyway). This is the same as "Back 4 Blood - from the creators of Left 4 Dead". I see people in twitter or even here believing that the original creators of Halo are making the next big thing(some even think it would be as popular as GTA or Fortnite). I can't see Bungie making a new original sci fi IP with lore on par with Halo or Destiny without there original writing team. It would be embarrassing if their next IP is marketed as "from the creators of Halo", with Destiny it made sense since some were still around till Destiny 1 launch.
And people speculate about how Bungie will be handled comparing them with Rare, how not much of the OG Rare crew is still present but Bungie will be different. But they already are in a position worse than Rare hardly retaining anyone from the OG team.
Meanwhile Joseph Staten has became the creative director in 343i and Max Hoberman's studio is making a new PvPvE mode for Infinite.
 

DForce

Member
The reality is they converted people from Steam to the Windows store the day the campaign came out, once they have the windows version MS gets all money instead of giving the steam cut

This isn't hard to see or figure out, unless you try to be obtuse about it
Over 10 million players played Halo Infinite on Steam, which would leave the rest to Windows store/Xbox. Considering the numbers of subscribers and the players on Xbox, that would leave a small minority to join Windows store.

This wasn't their "tactic." Their tactic is to retain the players on PC with F2P title and it hasn't worked as of now.
 

Kagey K

Member
Over 10 million players played Halo Infinite on Steam, which would leave the rest to Windows store/Xbox. Considering the numbers of subscribers and the players on Xbox, that would leave a small minority to join Windows store.

This wasn't their "tactic." Their tactic is to retain the players on PC with F2P title and it hasn't worked as of now.
OK let's say 10 million players were playing it on Steam, and then the day campaign came out half of them switched to windows.

Is that 15 million players or 5 million?

It's still 10 million. It's the same 10 million, but split. 5 on Steam and 5 on Windows.

A player that played on Steam at first and switched to Windows is still one player, but it looks bad on the Steam numbers as they switch.

It doesnt mean less overall players, it literalky just means less steam players.

You seem to not be able to grasp this concept.
 

DForce

Member
OK let's say 10 million players were playing it on Steam, and then the day campaign came out half of them switched to windows.

Is that 15 million players or 5 million?

It's still 10 million. It's the same 10 million, but split. 5 on Steam and 5 on Windows.

A player that played on Steam at first and switched to Windows is still one player, but it looks bad on the Steam numbers as they switch.

It doesnt mean less overall players, it literalky just means less steam players.

You seem to not be able to grasp this concept.

I understand your "concept" but it doesn't make any sense because your numbers don't back up your claim.

They hooked players on the multiplayer on Steam, and then offered the campaign free on gamepass.


The growth in Game Pass Subscribers wasn't huge at the end of the year, so that means the people who supposedly "switch over" were small. You also have to consider how many people subscribed to Game Pass because of Forza Horizon 5.

Halo Infinite was one of the top games on Most Played games and you would need a lot of players to attain that figure, which means a great deal of the other half of those 10 million players were likely on Xbox. You also have to take into account that the new "subscribers" would count as another player after signing up and playing the campaign on Game Pass.

All things considered, the number of people switching to Windows store to play the campaign was likely very small.
 

BigLee74

Banned
Well thread checks out. Neither the OP or contributors since are surprising 😂

Truth is, Steam numbers indicate not a lot. Halo is and always was primarily an Xbox game. Numbers on live are the bread and butter, PC players are an additional bonus. They’re not out to make a Warzone or Fortnite beater, Halo just isn’t for casuals and can’t hope to capture that market.

It’s a great campaign, with great MP, and this game is staying for a long time. They have been up front in saying this game will be supported for the rest of the generation. Maps will come, coop will come, forge will come, improvements all round will come. Plenty to look forward to, and to bring idling players (like myself) back.

Halo 5 made a shit ton of money with its monetisation, and Halo Infinite will too - with the huge plus being it is a better game.

Sorry to break it to half of you, but it’s not going to die and I doubt it’s even struggling!
 
Saying it's the worst performing halo ever is devinately implying it's a failure, but sure, let's play that game.

You have very little actual factual information to back that up, I'd it gained xbox 3 million new gamepass subscribers and is racking up microtransactions, and is attracting players to xbox, you saying it's performing "worst" will be meaningless at an epic level.

Also what does free have to with it, seems to me if it's hanging with the likes of roblox, it's massively popular.
They don't care about facts, they still think the game cost 500 million dollars to make :messenger_beaming:
 

ZehDon

Member
They aren’t broken, I play them quite often and they’re fine.
So, 343 Industries is lying when it says BTB is broken? Is this why they've been patching the game specifically to address BTB issues, have been active on their social media accounts providing updates on BTB being non-functional and providing time lines on when it will be, and removed BTB challenges for the stated reason that BTB doesn't work and it would progression lock the player base? I'm glad it works for you - it doesn't work more many, many others.

No it doesn’t “force people”, stop being dramatic.
We've discussed this is a prior thread. You were laughably wrong then, and you are still laughably wrong now. The progression system absolutely forces people to play in specific modes, with specific weapons, and in specific ways: it's literally the design of the challenge system. I won't post another wall of text explaining it in painful detail again because its clear you have your fingers in your ears. Go and re-read what I wrote and be laughably wrong again.

I come back to play because it’s fun, I’m pretty sure I enjoy it more because I’m not obsessed with filling up progression bars.
Halo has had progression systems since before Bungie stopped making the games. Asking for a non-garbage system if its going to be included is a perfectly fine request. Fun is a different for everyone - hence why the game has different game modes. Who are you to declare you enjoy something more, and that others are wrong or incorrect for finding fun elsewhere in other ways. I'd recommend climbing down off the horse if you want to be taken seriously in online discussions.

Just chill and try to enjoy the game...
When the game pushes me into 200ms games 75% of the time, doesn't register my shots 50% of the time, puts me into games with quitters gaming the progression system nearly every match, disables my favourite game type because it doesn't work, and time-gates modes I actually enjoy - like SWAT - how would you like me to do this? The game literally doesn't work and doesn't let me play what I want.
This is the second Halo Infinite thread where you've run the gaslighting schtick, proclaiming "those issues aren't real, you're lying, Halo Infinite is perfect - just try and be like me!". The game objectively has major issues preventing many from enjoying the game. So, drop the gaslight routine or we're done.
 
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MadAnon

Member
Because Halo is overrated. Today it's basically just a name with a lot of nostalgia attached to it for old timers. Halo provides nothing of interest for new players. Same with names like Quake, Unreal Tournament.
 
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dcmk7

Member
Concern about console warring in a thread not about consoles? How does that work. Like legitimately you are the first person to bring anything console related into this conversation.

. . .people are snarking at each other (this is NG), but I'm not seeing a whiff of console-warring. Odd take.
Ironically he has had multiple bans for console warring. I think it's 5 in the last year.
 

Wulfer

Member
I said at launch this game won’t have legs and unfortunately I seem to be right.

They will need to continuously release new content maps etc to keep it going but people just aren’t interested.

Nevermind onto the next.
This from someone in a Socom thread yep, definitely a Halo player!

Edit: Halo's just fine.
 
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I said at launch this game won’t have legs and unfortunately I seem to be right.

They will need to continuously release new content maps etc to keep it going but people just aren’t interested.

Nevermind onto the next.
You're acting like the game is dead. It took SoT almost two years to really take off. There are several other examples of GaaS games which took off after a long time of mediocre success. It all depends on what happens with development throughout the year.
 

Shmunter

Gold Member
It's a GAAS title that's barely 3 months old.

Normally GAAS titles from MS are even more threadbare. Sea of Thieves comes to mind.

It will take some time to come into its own. It's solid experience this early in its life cycle.

MS needs to keep putting content and soon it will be generation defining juggernaut.
A “Glass Half Full” guy ladies and gentlemen
 

kingfey

Banned
subscription gaming:

no incentive to launch with a complete game - the consumer has not paid anything up front and therefore does not have perceived value expectations to meet at initial release
no incentive to release updates quickly - the longer it takes to release updates the longer you have to be subscribed. bought a 12 year sub to play a gaas game? have fun burning 6 months of it waiting for content!
That thing doesnt work at this age, Plus games are not designed around subscription service.

Halo was designed before gamepass was even an idea. They want to make it like SOT.
This is jut the MP section, not the SP section. MP section usually takes time to make it work. It doesnt work immediately,.
 

kingfey

Banned
Halo has been dropping in popularity for a while and yes it is an issue that a game that's only been out for a few months is dropping players while games that have been out much longer have more staying power.
it has to do with content. Games like warzone, apex had alot of time to get content. Even fortnite at some point was dropping players, same for minecraft.
Once you fill a game with more content for people to play, your game popularity would increase.

Halo major problem was not releasing BR content.
 

Jimmy_liv

Member
Isn't it like 5th in the USA on Xbox? And I believe 10th in the UK.

I think the issue is, the progression system just isn't there.

Whilst I love the game and think it is immensely fun, it doesn't feel rewarding to sink time into the game.

Hopefully they can turn it around and bring players back as they continue to update the game.

& Add a proper progression system etc
No progression and very few maps. I think there is essentially 5 Team Slayer maps and a couple of those are fairly poor.

I don't k ow why they don't release some legacy maps whilst they work on new ones.
 
A quick look on Twitch says otherwise.
Apex Legends (3 years old): 70k
Splitgate (multiplatform Halo clone): 5k
Halo Infinite: sub 1k
I like how you threw in Splitgate into the mix, a game that reaches daily peaks of 3k players on Steam and basically doesn't exist on consoles.
 

anthony2690

Member
No progression and very few maps. I think there is essentially 5 Team Slayer maps and a couple of those are fairly poor.

I don't k ow why they don't release some legacy maps whilst they work on new ones.
Because that would still require making new maps in a new engine :p (they can't just lift a legacy map and plop it into the game) ;)

Looking forward to season 2 whenever that it is :)
 
Somehow people want to watch it more than Halo Infinite - like 5 times more. Pretty impressive for a game "nobody plays". lol
It's almost like people watch streamers, and not games. I just looked and three of the four Splitgate streams are cute gamer gurl streams where the simp boys would probably watch regardless of the game they're playing :messenger_beaming:
 

8BiTw0LF

Gold Member
It's almost like people watch streamers, and not games. I just looked and three of the four Splitgate streams are cute gamer gurl streams where the simp boys would probably watch regardless of the game they're playing :messenger_beaming:
But where are the cute "gamer gurls" in Halo?

Joe Biden Somethings Wrong GIF by GIPHY News
 

MadAnon

Member
it has to do with content. Games like warzone, apex had alot of time to get content. Even fortnite at some point was dropping players, same for minecraft.
Once you fill a game with more content for people to play, your game popularity would increase.

Halo major problem was not releasing BR content.
What a load of bullshit. PUBG has been pretty much the same shit for years. Same with CSGO, TF2. It has nothing to do with content. Just face the reality, Halo is not what it was. People are playing "plant/defuse the bomb" over and over on the same maps but somehow Halo is not doing well because of no content. Like People whine about missing game modes which in the end are barely played by anyone.

It's pretty much fallowing the usual run of the mill FTP shooter life cycle. "Just wait for content" is the usual MMORPG mantra before they invitably fade into obscurity and die while the established whales are alive and well.

You are way too high on copium.
 
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NinjaBoiX

Gold Member
So, 343 Industries is lying when it says BTB is broken? Is this why they've been patching the game specifically to address BTB issues, have been active on their social media accounts providing updates on BTB being non-functional and providing time lines on when it will be, and removed BTB challenges for the stated reason that BTB doesn't work and it would progression lock the player base? I'm glad it works for you - it doesn't work more many, many others.


We've discussed this is a prior thread. You were laughably wrong then, and you are still laughably wrong now. The progression system absolutely forces people to play in specific modes, with specific weapons, and in specific ways: it's literally the design of the challenge system. I won't post another wall of text explaining it in painful detail again because its clear you have your fingers in your ears. Go and re-read what I wrote and be laughably wrong again.


Halo has had progression systems since before Bungie stopped making the games. Asking for a non-garbage system if its going to be included is a perfectly fine request. Fun is a different for everyone - hence why the game has different game modes. Who are you to declare you enjoy something more, and that others are wrong or incorrect for finding fun elsewhere in other ways. I'd recommend climbing down off the horse if you want to be taken seriously in online discussions.


When the game pushes me into 200ms games 75% of the time, doesn't register my shots 50% of the time, puts me into games with quitters gaming the progression system nearly every match, disables my favourite game type because it doesn't work, and time-gates modes I actually enjoy - like SWAT - how would you like me to do this? The game literally doesn't work and doesn't let me play what I want.
This is the second Halo Infinite thread where you've run the gaslighting schtick, proclaiming "those issues aren't real, you're lying, Halo Infinite is perfect - just try and be like me!". The game objectively has major issues preventing many from enjoying the game. So, drop the gaslight routine or we're done.
I’m not trying to gaslight you, just pointing out that you’re massively exaggerating the issues out of frustration. It’s nowhere near as bad as your making out, battle pass woes aside.

The fundamentals of the game are absolutely fine, and if you just want to play it like most people, there are almost none of the issues that you insist are rife.

I’m sure the battle pass is stupid and a waste of time, but that’s a battle pass for you.

Edit: Also, I’d like to point out that the first interaction was you saying that it has the worst monetisation ever, and me pointing out that that is patently untrue. Poorly implemented battle pass doesn’t mean that it has awful monetisation issues, the core game can be played while ignoring the store entirely.
 
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kingfey

Banned
What a load of bullshit. PUBG has been pretty much the same shit for years. Same with CSGO, TF2. It has nothing to do with content. Just face the reality, Halo is not what it was. It's pretty much fallowing the usual run of the mill FTP shooter life cycle. "Just wait for content" is the usual MMORPG mantra before they invitably fade into obscurity and die while the established whales are alive and well.

You are way too high on copium.
Pubg was the definition of BR. Unlike Halo, Pubg has the support of all 3 consoles. Which made the BR mode exciting. That is how popular BR mode is.
 
Yeah, the North Americans. Half a billion people out of an 8 billion world.

The Americans just need to wake up and save Halo 😁
Halo is an American game through and through. Just look at Steam numbers, they always peak at American power hour and massively go down once Americans are asleep.

(btw, I know you're not interested in genuine discussion)
 

MadAnon

Member
Pubg was the definition of BR. Unlike Halo, Pubg has the support of all 3 consoles. Which made the BR mode exciting. That is how popular BR mode is.
That's my point. There's nothing defining Halo which attracts and keeps players around. You can release 50 new maps and players won't stay when the core game is just not hooking up people. Explain me why people are still "planting/defusing bomb" on the same maps in CSGO over and over while Halo is falling off a cliff in player count? League of Legends is being played on the same map over and over.

The reality is that nothing hooks to Halo. People played it for the sake of nostalgia, realised it doesn't feel the same like it used to and moved on. If someone released a new Quake today, it would be forgotten in few months.
 
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8BiTw0LF

Gold Member
Halo is an American game through and through. Just look at Steam numbers, they always peak at American power hour and massively go down once Americans are asleep.

(btw, I know you're not interested in genuine discussion)
If it just had Battle Royale or portals it would be more appealing for the rest of the world.
 

kingfey

Banned
That's my point. There's nothing defining Halo which attracts and keeps players around. You can release 50 new maps and players won't stay when the core game is just not hooking up people. Explain me why people are still "planting/defusing bomb" on the same maps in CSGO over and over while Halo is falling off a cliff in player count? League of Legends is being played on the same map over and over.

The reality is that nothing hooks to Halo. People played it for the sake of nostalgia, realised it doesn't feel the same like it used to and moved on. If someone released a new Quake today, it would be forgotten in few months.
Because you cant get the game on consoles, and its only available on pc. Its because you can make money from csgo. Its because its franchise that have been updated for a long time.
People play wow, despite the game coming out in 2004. If people are attached to something, and it gets updated for a long time, they will stick with that ship, and not jump from it. Same thing for league of legend. Halo simply doesnt have that power right now.

Halo is missing the old features people used to love. Not to mention, they are games, which halo fans are occupied with. Halo is an old relic at this point, not because people dont like it, but because it doesnt get well in to the new era. It doesnt have the trade system that csgo has. It doesnt have BR mode. It doesnt have alot of units like league of legends, which you can bond with. It will need time to regain its spot, but as of now, they really dont have anything compelling like CSgo. Their online mode is just regular thing xbox players enjoyed for a long time. The masses dont care about that.
 

ahtlas7

Member
The game is too samey feeling after a while.
But won’t a lot of pc players be playing on gamepass which, ya know, reduces steam numbers?
 

22•22

Doesnt need recognition
Season one feels like the real Beta. Roadmap delay among other issues stems perhaps from a non initial intended more fundamental overhaul that's coming. Let's hope so.
 
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