James Sawyer Ford
Member
Think of how many Batman games they could have sold in the ten years they’ve been making this POS live service clusterfuck?
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Arkane Hoped Microsoft Would Cancel ‘Redfall instead only canceled PS5 version’
- Thread starter Bernoulli
- Start date
Think of how many Batman games they could have sold in the ten years they’ve been making this POS live service clusterfuck?
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
![L*][*N*K](/data/avatars/m/842/842515.jpg?1696510303){kind=avatar}
Kacho
Member
Yep. Takes a lot of balls risking established studios to chase trends. You’re left with nothing in the end sometimes.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
In the state the game released in, one would think it was early stages of production.
oldergamer
Member
this is getting dumb. they could have cancelled their own game.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Arkane was not in the position to take that decision, Bethesda (as an independent subsidiary) were the one pushing for these kinds of games....so... ironically, the one who had the power to intervene was MS.
Camreezie
Member
Sonys approach gets a game like Days Gone which is magnitudes better than Redfall. Management of Microsoft Studios is fucking terrible clearly
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Rhazer Fusion
Member
Canceling might of actually been the worst choice out of the two. I can imagine the backlash if yet another hyped XBOX game gets canned especially when they are in a situation where they need as many games or exclusives as possible.
Roni
Gold Member
Actually you don't need to imagine, you already know: it feels like a job you're only putting up with for the money...
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Should have cancelled the thing. I doubt anyone would have noticed.
Roni
Gold Member
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Astray
Gold Member
Except they had the choice to just.. cancel it quietly?
Sony is cancelling projects left and right, but the majority of those projects were made in complete silence with almost zero leaks, this means that all we know about the projects is that they were cancelled.
Cancelling Redfall before announcing it would have been the better call.
Mozzarella
Member
Maybe Zenimax is the real baddy here.
semiconscious
Member
agreed. from the time i've spent with it (solo), i'd say that time & manpower are all that stands between the unpolished foundation we got, & an interesting, fun game. sadly, i think the gaas snafu, combined with a dose of over-ambition, basically doomed this game from the start...
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
Slicker than your average
Banned
He picks and choose what conversation he wants to have and as soon as receipts are shown he ignores said poster and carries on same argument with someone else.
Can't wait for him to tell you he enjoyed redfall on his series s upstairs by using the convenience of removal hard drive.
ZoukGalaxy
Member
I think Microsoft misunderstood the concept of exclusivity: they are not supposed to release exclusive mediocre games.
Maybe that's why Redfail was not canceled.
Maybe that's why Redfail was not canceled.
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Boss Mog
Member
Cancelling would've been a better option, at least the Arkane brand wouldn't take a huge hit to it's credibility as a quality dev. Microsoft would've taken the heat.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Not at all. Canceling Redfall would be 100x better than this.
Besides, games get canceled all the time, and we don't even learn about them.
Sucker Punch canceled another game before releasing Ghost of Tsushima. Santa Monica canceled Internal 7 before releasing God of War (2018). If MS never announced Redfall, 90% of the gaming population would have never known about its existence at all.
X-Wing
Member
Man, Microsoft has this incredible capacity to turn everything they touch into shit. They were so obsessed with taking content away from PlayStation that they didn't even bother about the quality of the content they were making exclusive to their platform. They deserve the shit they got.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Had they cancelled it, no doubt you would have been first in line to say ms is meddling and ruining it's acquisitions. And your post would have been exactly the same saying they were hands on in all the wrong ways.
As to canceling the ps5 version, that was the whole point of buying zenimax, to get more exclusives.
Nydius
Member
There wouldn't have been any uproar because none of us knew about the game until 2021.
Microsoft could have canceled it and none of us would have been the wiser. The most we might have heard would have been from ex-employees talking about a project Zenimax had put them on to do a live service game that Microsoft scrapped once they acquired the studio. That would have been it.
Instead, Microsoft didn't even bother looking at the state of the game's development, merely handed down a "NO PLAYSTATION!" edict from on high, and then decided to show off a sizzle reel "one more thing!" hype trailer at their 2021 showcase.
Microsoft bears some of the blame here. Not all of it, of course. Zenimax owns most of it. However, it is utterly inexcusable that Microsoft failed to look into the projects of the studios they just spent $7B to purchase and stayed hands-off. They could have averted this disaster two years ago. Instead, they now have one of the worst rated games inexplicably tied to their first party output.
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Nico_D
Member
I wonder if anyone from Arkane actually went to Microsoft and asked them to cancel or reboot it - or was this just asked telepathically?
If this was just a "hope", then there was some serious communication problems inside the studio if they aren't able to communicate first with each other and then with higher-ups.
If this was just a "hope", then there was some serious communication problems inside the studio if they aren't able to communicate first with each other and then with higher-ups.
feynoob
Banned
The issue is that they didn't have a bad game before. MS trusted their history and left them alone.
And if they had cancelled that game, we would have gotten the pitchfork, because of their track history.
We are saying this now, because we know the game is a turd. But that feeling wasn't the same during that time. They did prey and people praised it. They know what arkane was capable of. No one would have believed MS, had they cancelled that game.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
It'd have been super easy to cancel it because nobody knew what Arkane was making -- until Microsoft announced it on their stage.
Also, even if people came to know about the canceled Redfall project, Arkane could just spin it into a positive thing in like 1 message. It'd have gone something like this:
"Yes, we were working on a project named Redfall, and it was supposed to be a multiplayer co-cop vampire shooter. But the game wasn't coming along well and didn't have the "Arkane DNA" that our fans love and expect from us.
The project started because we felt a need to make a big GaaS shooter that could bring in recurring revenue. After Microsoft's purchase of Zenimax, however, that stopped being a problem for us. That's why it's so good to be a part of Xbox Game Studios, where we can pursue our creative ambitions without worrying about where our next cheque is coming from.
With Microsoft's support, we are developing [insert franchise name here: Dishonored 3, Prey 2 etc.], which will be our biggest and most ambitious single-player game yet and a true love letter to our Arkane fans. It's very early in production, but we can't wait for the time when we can show more of it."
ZehDon
Gold Member
Hard to argue with this, frankly. Redfall has been one of the most damaging first party releases in a long, long time. It literally would've been better if they'd never released it at all.
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Stare-Bear
Banned
They didn't cancel Redfall because they're desperate for games. Beginning to think half of their studios are just stuck in pre-prod hell.
crackajack
Member
They needed Scalebound to be a great new game, but ultimately made the right decision to not try to make something work that probably did not work from the early concepts. The hype around that and Redfall was at best lukewarm, most not caring that much, so pushing through with either is a dumb idea from the start.
Here they had still the same problem, they needed something, anything, but this time no suit cared enough to actually look if either moving the date much further back, maybe outright reboot the whole thing into soemthing else or just cancel it all together would be the better option, despite costs. MS not checking what they will get is stupid, but Bethesda management seems to be equally to blame. Basically throwing their new overlords under the bus while delivering two Sony exclusives were one was okay and the other an overhyped GOTY candidate. That's just bonkers to finish that contract in expected quality and then release a stinker for the one company that is paying the bills going forward. MS must get rid of remaining Bethesda people that clearly don't have MS's best interest at heart if that hands off approach is truthfully reported here.
Here they had still the same problem, they needed something, anything, but this time no suit cared enough to actually look if either moving the date much further back, maybe outright reboot the whole thing into soemthing else or just cancel it all together would be the better option, despite costs. MS not checking what they will get is stupid, but Bethesda management seems to be equally to blame. Basically throwing their new overlords under the bus while delivering two Sony exclusives were one was okay and the other an overhyped GOTY candidate. That's just bonkers to finish that contract in expected quality and then release a stinker for the one company that is paying the bills going forward. MS must get rid of remaining Bethesda people that clearly don't have MS's best interest at heart if that hands off approach is truthfully reported here.
Nydius
Member
You’re STILL not listening or you’re being intentionally obtuse. No one would have gotten out any pitchforks because none of us knew the game was being made. It would have been quietly canceled, none of us would have known shit about it, and Arkane Austin could have moved on to something else. Microsoft wouldn’t have needed to say anything for you to not believe.
As for your logic about why they stayed hands off, well, that doesn’t fly either. Prey may have been a hit with the critics, but it was a commercial flop. And again, the fact that Microsoft didn’t demand full project status reports on all development from the studios they spent 7 BILLION DOLLARS to acquire is mind-bogglingly idiotic.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
So Arkane was never making a game they wanted to make, because of the shit stains at Zenimax.
Then Microsoft takes a hands off approach, thus allowing the fuckery to continue.
Cancelling the game would’ve been the best move. Sure people would be upset for a week or so, and then they’d move onto the next disaster.
By not cancelling it Arkane’s reputation has suffered considerably, as has Microsoft’s ability to manage these studios.
Then Microsoft takes a hands off approach, thus allowing the fuckery to continue.
Cancelling the game would’ve been the best move. Sure people would be upset for a week or so, and then they’d move onto the next disaster.
By not cancelling it Arkane’s reputation has suffered considerably, as has Microsoft’s ability to manage these studios.
feynoob
Banned
Unless you live in a cave, you will be able to know this news, because of this dude that posted this news. When 70% of people leaving the company overtime, you can't hide such a news. And by the time people hear this news without a context they will be pissed off.
Prey was financial flop, but a hit with gamers. That means something. Quality was there, it's just that the people didn't buy the game due to poor marketing.
Also the big problem with MS is hands off approach. They give their studios freedom creativity and don't meddle with them. That is the reason why alot of studios agreed with MS buyout.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
True. Moreover, reputation can still be recovered sooner or later, but what's worse is that 70% of Arkane veterans left because of this fuck-up. Now the Arkane we knew and loved is essentially no more. That studio is basically dead at this point; it's just a name.
A loss of a good studio is always, always a bad thing for gamers in the industry. We've seen this thing play out many times: Bioware, Rare, Radical, Lionhead, Silicon Knights, Free Radical Design, Ensemble, and now Arkane.
Microsoft did not cancelled Redfall: Why the did not do it?
Microsoft cancelled Redfall: "They are interfering with their studios despite promise that they would not do it"
I mean. Headlines are writing themselves.
Unfortunately, Redfall was a lose-lose situation. Bethesda in their infinite wisdom (and lack of money) forcing studios to make games they did not want to make (Fallout 76, Youngblood, Redfall) and Microsoft is now reaping all wrath. Shame that Redfall resulted in such a turnover within Arkane Austin. But since they are on hiring spree currently, I hope that it will not affect their future games too much.
Microsoft cancelled Redfall: "They are interfering with their studios despite promise that they would not do it"
I mean. Headlines are writing themselves.
Unfortunately, Redfall was a lose-lose situation. Bethesda in their infinite wisdom (and lack of money) forcing studios to make games they did not want to make (Fallout 76, Youngblood, Redfall) and Microsoft is now reaping all wrath. Shame that Redfall resulted in such a turnover within Arkane Austin. But since they are on hiring spree currently, I hope that it will not affect their future games too much.
feynoob
Banned
I think the shift in the industry shows that people want certain games, while good games gets overshadowed.
had people bought arkane games, they wouldn't have been forced to make redfall. That is the reality of some devs work. You can make some of the best games, but if they don't sell financially well, it's meaningless.
This can go every possible way. Because yes, you pointed out studios that never recovered staff turnover (albeit we are waiting for BioWare with Dreadwolf and I also don't agree with Rare) I can point to pleathora of studios that had none of their former talent and they are doing just fine.
Blizzard, Infinity Ward, Respawn, Sony Santa Monica, Rockstar, CDPR, id Software, NetherRealm, Naughty Dog etc.
It's just matter of finding attractive new project in genre that will be interesting for potential new recruits or to draw back people that left. It's not like Austin don't have a clusterfuck of talent pool from all studios in that region.
And since Arkane Austin is hiring heavily so it's clear that Microsoft/Bethesda did not lost faith in that studio.
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feynoob
Banned
You can recoup talent, but not Identity.
Arkane and rare identity is lost at this point. They are not what they used to be before.
It's a new journey for them.
No one expected rare to make a live service game, but here we are.
People said same thing about id Software not that long ago. I remember dooming and glooming after release of Rage and reports of modern-military Doom game.
...and yet, Doom 2016 came.
And everything was fine once again.
Arkane Lyon made Wolfenstein Youngblood which was hated...
...and then they made Deathloop which (albeit little controversial) was a great game.
That's why I said that this situation can go every possible way. It's on Arkane Austin management to do something about that, choose right project in terms of scope and how they want to be known in future and hire people that can go back to immersive sim roots of studio. From what devs told Schrierer, it's clear that they want to go back to immersive sims.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Yeah, that happens. It sucks, but it happens.
Returnal was one such game I feel. Although it was a success for Sony, it sold ~1 million copies, while it should have sold 10+ million considering the masterpiece it is.
Sometimes, good games do not sell, and that leads to awful situations for studios. I feel for them.
Kerotan
Member
I suppose we gotta be thankful MS did the quality control for PSN this time.
Seriously though MS are a POS buying 3rd party publisher's and cancelling version's already in development. All while paying millions for news outlets to publish the latest Phil interview stating how exclusives are bad.
Seriously though MS are a POS buying 3rd party publisher's and cancelling version's already in development. All while paying millions for news outlets to publish the latest Phil interview stating how exclusives are bad.
feynoob
Banned
I think there is a difference between making a bad game vs losing the people that used to make your iconic games.
You can recover from a bad game, but you can't from losing talent people.
So you want to pretend that all people that made id software games up until Doom 3 are still in the studio?
Please.
No studio that is in business longer then 10 years has same people that they had at the beginning. No OG Blizzard peeps are there and yet Diablo IV is a banger. Almost no OG Bungie peeps are there (outside of Jason Jones), but Bungie is still firing. Overwhelming majority of senior staff at Respawn (outside of Vince) is no longer there and yet, Jedi Survivor is great.
I won't pretend that loosing 70% of staff in huge turnover because of fucked up project is okay. I'm just saying, that Arkane has a strong chance to recover if they choose next project right and staff itself with right people. Talent pool around Austin is huge.
feynoob
Banned
70% is a lot loss talent and will have a huge impact. And that is mainly due to the vision that those people have.
yazenov
Member
Phil Spencer claims to want to reach a larger audience for the Xbox game studios but proceeded by canceling the PS version of the game and cutting off the largest userbase base for multiplatform games.
