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[Bernoulli]

“The acquisition gave some staff at Arkane hope that Microsoft might cancel Redfall or, better yet, let them reboot it as a single-player game, according to sources familiar with the production. Instead, Microsoft maintained a hands-off approach. Aside from canceling a version of Redfall that had been planned for rival Sony Corp.’s PlayStation, Microsoft allowed ZeniMax to continue operating as it had before, with great autonomy.”

Report: Arkane Hoped Microsoft Would Cancel Or Reboot ‘Redfall’

Redfall is the worst-reviewed major release of 2023, and a black eye on Microsoft’s first party ambitions, a truly terrible game from a studio previously a producer of...

www.forbes.com

 

[feynoob]

Either option was going to be a nightmare for them.

A: let them cancel the game, and you get a huge uproar. Allow them to make the game and gamble with that chance.

There was no clear win here.

 

[adamsapple]

There's already a topic on the same article and same investigation

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/redfall-70-of-arkane-austin-have-left-the-company-jason-schreier.1657250/page-2#post-268012618

 

[Riky]

Well it is a single player game, I've played through it alone. Something doesn't add up as all these claims of GAAS and microtransactions are strange as the game has no store and no matchmaking.
Maybe they meant it to be like Destiny but as people left they decided it wouldn't be supported so just released it without all the online stuff.

 

[Banjo64]

Either option was going to be a nightmare for them.

A: let them cancel the game, and you get a huge uproar. Allow them to make the game and gamble with that chance.

There was no clear win here.

They chose wrong IMO.

Ever since the announcement, we have not been able to give you an update, as a result of the continuing development -- although this is very regrettable -- we must let you know that the current development progress has not reached the standards we seek in a sequel to the Metroid Prime series.

Despite some upset, most people viewed the above as a required evil because they’d take an amazing Prime 4 over a shite one.

 

[Banjo64]

Well it is a single player game, I've played through it alone.

Clearly there is a difference between playing something like Sea of Thieves, Destiny or Redfall solo compared to a game like Prey, Ori or Uncharted.

 

[azertydu91]

They chose wrong IMO.

Ever since the announcement, we have not been able to give you an update, as a result of the continuing development -- although this is very regrettable -- we must let you know that the current development progress has not reached the standards we seek in a sequel to the Metroid Prime series.

Despite some upset, most people viewed the above as a required evil because they’d take an amazing Prime 4 over a shite one.

And they are

.

 

[Bernoulli]

Either option was going to be a nightmare for them.

A: let them cancel the game, and you get a huge uproar. Allow them to make the game and gamble with that chance.

There was no clear win here.

A reboot could have saved them or cancel it would give less bad PR

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Well it is a single player game, I've played through it alone. Something doesn't add up as all these claims of GAAS and microtransactions are strange as the game has no store and no matchmaking.
Maybe they meant it to be like Destiny but as people left they decided it wouldn't be supported so just released it without all the online stuff.

Game seems to be inspired heavily from Ubisofts Division series.

Not that I am complaining. But that's a big ask from a small studio like Arkane.

Hopefully it will be supported like Division 2 by MS.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Either option was going to be a nightmare for them.

A: let them cancel the game, and you get a huge uproar. Allow them to make the game and gamble with that chance.

There was no clear win here.

clearly, canceling it would have been the correct decision or the reboot as a single player game as well

 

[Torrent of Pork]

I hope this experience will put to bed everybody's whinging about Scalebound then.

 

[Honey Bunny]

Ok that is fucking hilarious

>Instead, Microsoft maintained a hands-off approach. Aside from canceling a version of Redfall that had been planned for rival Sony Corp.’s PlayStation

...so it wasn't a hands-off approach, at all. It was hands-on in all the wrong ways.

 

[Cert.in.Death]

How fucked is the MS 1st party when studios are hoping their publisher will cancel their projects?

TBH, this is something that worries me about GamePass. The incentive is to keep the content coming irrespective of whether it’s of acceptable quality.

 

[Dick Jones]

I hope this experience will put to bed everybody's whinging about Scalebound then.

Yeah. Can't attack both decisions, either pick a view and stick with it. I'm of the camp, if it's not good enough and you can afford to cancel then do it. Redfall and Scalebound weren't up to snuff. Get rid if you're not giving more time

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Ok that is fucking hilarious

>Instead, Microsoft maintained a hands-off approach. Aside from canceling a version of Redfall that had been planned for rival Sony Corp.’s PlayStation

...so it wasn't a hands-off approach, like, at all. It was hands-on in all the wrong ways.

 

[Riky]

Clearly there is a difference between playing something like Sea of Thieves, Destiny or Redfall solo compared to a game like Prey, Ori or Uncharted.

You obviously haven't played the game, it has little in common with SOT or Destiny, it has no store, no microtransactions, no matchmaking and no other players in the world apart from any you invite for co-op. It has a story that goes from start to finish, it's a single player game with a co-op friends option.

 

[Banjo64]

Aw


You obviously haven't played the game,

Correct, I have no interest in wasting my limited time on earth with garbage like this.

it has little in common with SOT or Destiny, it has no store, no microtransactions, no matchmaking and no other players in the world apart from any you invite for co-op. It has a story that goes from start to finish, it's a single player game with a co-op friends option.

The entire design language around this game from the beginning of its development has been that this was intended at its core to be a co-op online shooter. It’s not my fault that they decided to bin the MTX and store in 2021 or that the game ended up being a convoluted mess with mixed messaging and no match making.

 

[Mr Moose]

Either option was going to be a nightmare for them.

A: let them cancel the game, and you get a huge uproar. Allow them to make the game and gamble with that chance.

There was no clear win here.

When was it announced? They could've cancelled it and no one would've known or given a shit imo. Game has always looked a bit crap.
I checked, it was June 2021 E3. I guess they wanted to show something from their recent acquisition.

 

[Zheph]

Either option was going to be a nightmare for them.

A: let them cancel the game, and you get a huge uproar. Allow them to make the game and gamble with that chance.

There was no clear win here.

cancelling is a win long term imo, all about reputation

In Redfall case, they had the chance to cancel it before showing so no one would have say anything

 

[Flabagast]

Seems that us PS5 owners avoided a bullet on this one.

Thanks MS

 

[Three]

Ok that is fucking hilarious

>Instead, Microsoft maintained a hands-off approach. Aside from canceling a version of Redfall that had been planned for rival Sony Corp.’s PlayStation

...so it wasn't a hands-off approach, at all. It was hands-on in all the wrong ways.

Yeah, it's pretty obvious it was hands on but they wanted a product at the end of it. If they didn’t communicate this products state and that they don't think it's ready for MS to cancel or delay then that's on the studio. I doubt they didn’t know though.

 

[Riky]

Correct, I have no interest in wasting my limited time on earth with garbage like this.


The entire design language around this game from the beginning of its development has been that this was intended at its core to be a co-op online shooter. It’s not my fault that they decided to bin the MTX and store in 2021 or that the game ended up being a convoluted mess with mixed messaging and no match making.

Where did I say it was your fault? You got evidence they binned the store in 2021? Please post it.
You said it was like playing SOT or Destiny and it isn't, it's nothing like those games. Maybe do some research before commenting in future.

 

[diffusionx]

There was no way MS was going to cancel a live service game that could drive GP subscriptions, same reason why they continue to burn money in the giant pit that is called Halo Infinite, same reason why they want to spend $70 billion on Activision.

I dunno, I watched a lot of Redfall reviews and I think it did have potential, it was just incompetently executed on every level. If Arkane didn't want to work on it, it certainly shows in the final project but also major issues up and down from management to production to the devs all of whom couldn't figure it out.

 

[Robb]

Sucks for Arkane but I don’t think that was ever on the table. RedFall was probably exactly what MS wanted, at least in concept. They probably just saw the words “open-world, multiplayer and Gaas” and got $-signs in their eyes.

 

[Pelta88]

How fucked is the MS 1st party when studios are hoping their publisher will cancel their projects?

TBH, this is something that worries me about GamePass. The incentive is to keep the content coming irrespective of whether it’s of acceptable quality.

Corporate didn't care about the state of the game. Their focus was cancelling the PS5 version and putting it on GamePass. That is really problematic.

 

[kuncol02]

Where did I say it was your fault? You got evidence they binned the store in 2021? Please post it.
You said it was like playing SOT or Destiny and it isn't, it's nothing like those games. Maybe do some research before commenting in future.

There were screens from leaked alpha with store.

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

I don't work in a "creative" field so I can't imagine how frustrating and shitty it has to be to be forced to work on a game you have zero interest in making and that seems to be the polar opposite of what you want to be doing.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Corporate didn't care about the state of the game. Their focus was cancelling the PS5 version and putting it on GamePass. That is really problematic.

Looks like this was more a Bethesda decision based on the article. Xbox didn't intervene. Also, "some staff" is nowhere close to "Arkane" wanting the game cancelled. I imagine the staff was mixed on this.

 

[Luigi Mario]

Either option was going to be a nightmare for them.

A: let them cancel the game, and you get a huge uproar. Allow them to make the game and gamble with that chance.

There was no clear win here.

Redfall was announced a few months after Microsoft acquired Bethesda at their Xbox E3 2021 showcase. If they would have cancelled Redfall shortly after the acquisition, nobody would have known about this game. So, your option A doesn’t make any sense.

 

[Kusarigama]

Arkane Hoped Microsoft Would Cancel ‘Redfall instead only canceled PS5 version’​

This is one helluva funny headline

Knowing what a buggy mess it turned out to be.

 

[IFireflyl]

There's already a topic on the same article and same investigation

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/redfall-70-of-arkane-austin-have-left-the-company-jason-schreier.1657250/page-2#post-268012618

That thread has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Unless your position is that if someone makes a post inside of a thread, then that somehow means that that post topic can't be turned into a thread by itself. But that seems like some wildly pointless backseat moderating.

 

[cireza]

Arkane hoped MS would cancel their turd so it is MS fault in the end ?

Maybe Arkane should have hoped, and tried, to make a good game instead ?

This is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Pelta88]

Looks like this was more a Bethesda decision based on the article. Xbox didn't intervene. Also, "some staff" is nowhere close to "Arkane" wanting the game cancelled. I imagine the staff was mixed on this.

A couple of quick questions for you...

1. Who owns Bethesda?

2. Where does the buck stop?

 

[dorkimoe]

I fucking called it that it shoulda been singleplayer. These coop games are trash

 

[Banjo64]

Where did I say it was your fault? You got evidence they binned the store in 2021? Please post it.

You could just read the article, because it’s in there, but sure;

Harvey Smith recently said in an interview with the website Eurogamer that “early on” he pushed back against the compulsory inclusion of an in-game store. But people who worked on the game said the remarks didn’t square with how things played out. For the first three years, Redfall had a significant microtransaction plan in place. Only in 2021, with “games as a service” growing more controversial among gamers, did Arkane finally scrap its unwieldy in-game monetization plans.

You said it was like playing SOT or Destiny and it isn't, it's nothing like those games. Maybe do some research before commenting in future.

I have watched hours of reviews on this POS, it was too funny not to. I’d say that’s sufficient research to conclude that the mission structure is similar to those games

 

[DaGwaphics]

Where did I say it was your fault? You got evidence they binned the store in 2021? Please post it.
You said it was like playing SOT or Destiny and it isn't, it's nothing like those games. Maybe do some research before commenting in future.

When you have people that hold strong opinions based on nothing more than the opinions of others you get a lot of misinformation flying around. A good 50% of the criticism you see floating around about this game obviously has nothing to do with this game at all, which makes it even more hilarious.

The mission structure in this game is absolutely nothing like SoT and is way more "Far Cry 5" than Destiny (there is zero grind or skill advancement requirement, while those mechanics are partially present they are not required for game progression). No one that played the game for 20 minutes would ever make those comparisons.

 

[Riky]

There were screens from leaked alpha with store.

Leaked Xbox exclusive 'Redfall' screenshots show weapons, environments, and menus

Here's an early look at what you can expect from Arkane's upcoming Xbox exclusive.

www.windowscentral.com

None of the 14 screens has a store that I can see, you got anymore?

I said in the other thread did they decide they weren't going to support the game so stripped out stuff, I really don't know. but the game we have now isn't a live service game at all.

 

[Mr Moose]

Arkane hoped MS would cancel their turd so it is MS fault in the end ?

Maybe Arkane should have hoped, and tried, to make a good game instead ?

This is beyond ridiculous.

Both are to blame, MS should've said "Wait a minute, this is shit!" and told Bethesda to calm down with their "everything needs to be GAAS!" crap/cancelled the game.
And Arkane should've not made said shit to begin with.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

You obviously haven't played the game, it has little in common with SOT or Destiny, it has no store, no microtransactions, no matchmaking and no other players in the world apart from any you invite for co-op. It has a story that goes from start to finish, it's a single player game with a co-op friends option.

That’s not what he said, he simply said there’s a difference playing Redfall solo versus an actual single player game like Ori or Uncharted. And he’s right. Even the abilities and skill trees in Redfall are designed for co-op play. It’s a game designed around co-op, but is available to play solo in a watered down fashion. Just like Destiny, or Sea of Thieves, or Borderlands, The Division, etc.

 

[Riky]

When you have people that hold strong opinions based on nothing more than the opinions of others you get a lot of misinformation flying around. A good 50% of the criticism you see floating around about this game obviously has nothing to do with this game at all, which makes it even more hilarious.

True. People keep talking about GAAS when it clearly isn't, also live service but with no matchmaking

 

[kuncol02]

Leaked Xbox exclusive 'Redfall' screenshots show weapons, environments, and menus

Here's an early look at what you can expect from Arkane's upcoming Xbox exclusive.

www.windowscentral.com

None of the 14 screens has a store that I can see, you got anymore?

I said in the other thread did they decide they weren't going to support the game so stripped out stuff, I really don't know. but the game we have now isn't a live service game at all.

 

[Riky]

That’s not what he said, he simply said there’s a difference playing Redfall solo versus an actual single player game like Ori or Uncharted. And he’s right. Even the abilities and skill trees in Redfall are designed for co-op play. It’s a game designed around co-op, but is available to play solo in a watered down fashion. Just like Destiny, or Sea of Thieves, or Borderlands, The Division, etc.

The co-op is watered down most as there is no matchmaking, they just scale up enemies if you got up to four friends

 

[Mr Moose]

Leaked Xbox exclusive 'Redfall' screenshots show weapons, environments, and menus

Here's an early look at what you can expect from Arkane's upcoming Xbox exclusive.

www.windowscentral.com

None of the 14 screens has a store that I can see, you got anymore?

I said in the other thread did they decide they weren't going to support the game so stripped out stuff, I really don't know. but the game we have now isn't a live service game at all.

Maybe the Item Shop thing in the top right? Is that still there?

 

[Riky]

There is an item shop in the game now, it's just in game currency that you can't buy with real money, you have to find it in game.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

A couple of quick questions for you...

1. Who owns Bethesda?

2. Where does the buck stop?

Phil put his trust in Bethesda and was burned. It was obviously a bad move for the game, and of course he takes the blame. I doubt he lets it happen again and if anything, letting them fail gives him more power.

 

[Captain Toad]

Well it is a single player game, I've played through it alone. Something doesn't add up as all these claims of GAAS and microtransactions are strange as the game has no store and no matchmaking.
Maybe they meant it to be like Destiny but as people left they decided it wouldn't be supported so just released it without all the online stuff.

Leave it to Riky to defend every exclusive, even Redfall.

 

[jm89]

Phil put his trust in Bethesda and was burned. It was obviously a bad move for the game, and of course he takes the blame. I doubt he lets it happen again and if anything, letting them fail gives him more power.

Phil did such a good job with 343i. Hopefully he uses that magic on bethesda

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

The co-op is watered down most as there is no matchmaking, they just scale up enemies if you got up to four friends

The entire game is a glass of room temperature tap water. But you’re playing the worst version of the game if you play solo. It is designed for co-op.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Phil did such a good job with 343i. Hopefully he uses that magic on bethesda

I never said he was good with 343i.

 

[mckmas8808]

clearly, canceling it would have been the correct decision or the reboot as a single player game as well

Exactly! What's the point in being bought by MS, if they aren't going to spend the money to do the bolded?