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[Morrie’s wig shop]

You could just read the article, because it’s in there, but sure;

Harvey Smith recently said in an interview with the website Eurogamer that “early on” he pushed back against the compulsory inclusion of an in-game store. But people who worked on the game said the remarks didn’t square with how things played out. For the first three years, Redfall had a significant microtransaction plan in place. Only in 2021, with “games as a service” growing more controversial among gamers, did Arkane finally scrap its unwieldy in-game monetization plans.


I have watched hours of reviews on this POS, it was too funny not to. I’d say that’s sufficient research to conclude that the mission structure is similar to those games

Wait you said you wouldn’t waste your time playing this but you waste your time watching hours of gameplay on the game and wasting hours writing about it on here???
What the fuck wrong with you lol…

 

[Calling 911 Melts Beams]

its never 2 late 2 get canceled just say some racist stuff on the twitter

 

[Riky]

The entire game is a glass of room temperature tap water. But you’re playing the worst version of the game if you play solo. It is designed for co-op.

SOT is quite arduous to play alone as that truly is designed around co-op with needing to steer the ship, fire cannons, fix leaks etc. Redfall doesn't require anything like that, the game we have today is a rather simple story shooter you can play co-op with friends and scaled enemies if you wish. Maybe the real co-op elements were scrapped.

 

[Banjo64]

Wait you said you wouldn’t waste your time playing this but you waste your time watching hours of gameplay on the game and wasting hours writing about it on here???
What the fuck wrong with you lol…

Yeah man, watching people provide commentary on a laughable POS is much more entertaining than the pain of playing it myself, feel free to disagree.

Leaked Xbox exclusive 'Redfall' screenshots show weapons, environments, and menus

Here's an early look at what you can expect from Arkane's upcoming Xbox exclusive.

www.windowscentral.com

None of the 14 screens has a store that I can see, you got anymore?

I said in the other thread did they decide they weren't going to support the game so stripped out stuff, I really don't know. but the game we have now isn't a live service game at all.

In case you missed it I provided a direct quote from someone who worked on the game, I’ll post it again for you;

Harvey Smith recently said in an interview with the website Eurogamer that “early on” he pushed back against the compulsory inclusion of an in-game store. But people who worked on the game said the remarks didn’t square with how things played out. For the first three years, Redfall had a significant microtransaction plan in place. Only in 2021, with “games as a service” growing more controversial among gamers, did Arkane finally scrap its unwieldy in-game monetization plans.

That’s not what he said, he simply said there’s a difference playing Redfall solo versus an actual single player game like Ori or Uncharted. And he’s right. Even the abilities and skill trees in Redfall are designed for co-op play. It’s a game designed around co-op, but is available to play solo in a watered down fashion. Just like Destiny, or Sea of Thieves, or Borderlands, The Division, etc.

 

[GHG]

Leave it to Riky to defend every exclusive, even Redfall.

I don't get it, it's well established that the game is dogshit and the development process was a mess (didn't even need today's articles to tell us that, you could see it based on the final product).

What is there to even defend, and more importantly, why?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Well it is a single player game, I've played through it alone. Something doesn't add up as all these claims of GAAS and microtransactions are strange as the game has no store and no matchmaking.
Maybe they meant it to be like Destiny but as people left they decided it wouldn't be supported so just released it without all the online stuff.

Maybe during development they ripped out all GAAS and MP stuff? Who knows.

 

[Riky]

Maybe during development they ripped out all GAAS and MP stuff? Who knows.

Seems to be the case.

 

[feynoob]

When was it announced? They could've cancelled it and no one would've known or given a shit imo. Game has always looked a bit crap.
I checked, it was June 2021 E3. I guess they wanted to show something from their recent acquisition.

cancelling is a win long term imo, all about reputation

In Redfall case, they had the chance to cancel it before showing so no one would have say anything

Redfall was announced a few months after Microsoft acquired Bethesda at their Xbox E3 2021 showcase. If they would have cancelled Redfall shortly after the acquisition, nobody would have known about this game. So, your option A doesn’t make any sense.

Considering we have Jason here, we would have heard of the news of game being cancelled or rebooted.

At least the game being shit means MS will take this matter seriously from now on.

Their image has been tarnished by this game.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Different approaches to the extreme between MS and Sony.
One releases a bad game, fully aware of its state, just to add another game to the list, the other cancels games that could be just ok and many people could still get some enjoyment out of them just because they wouldn't get overwhelmingly positive reviews and it could tarnish a little bit the brand image.
I'm not liking the direction of either of them.

 

[RGB'D]

Ok that is fucking hilarious

>Instead, Microsoft maintained a hands-off approach. Aside from canceling a version of Redfall that had been planned for rival Sony Corp.’s PlayStation

...so it wasn't a hands-off approach, at all. It was hands-on in all the wrong ways.

This doesn't necessitate MS directly hands on with Arkane though. It's probably more of a Zenimax directive from MS (i.e. we will ship deathloop and ghostwire PS and DLC for 76 and ESO but stop working on anything PS for the other products)

 

[Kacho]

Seems to be the case.

It says it in the article. They changed their plans to include monetization in 2021. It’s not clear if it was decision made because of the acquisition.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

If Microsoft cancelled the game we would have got another Scalebound with people complaining how they game was cancelled after all these years

Now we can just move forward and forget.

 

[Riky]

It says it in the article. They changed their plans to include monetization in 2021. It’s not clear if it was decision made because of the acquisition.

They must have removed the monetization as it's gone in the final game, but it makes sense when you look at the loot system etc.

 

[Spitfire098]

Either option was going to be a nightmare for them.

A: let them cancel the game, and you get a huge uproar. Allow them to make the game and gamble with that chance.

There was no clear win here.

A huge uproar over a dev gaas game whose previous game was a dud...doubtful.

 

[ahtlas7]

Gamers cancelled that shit for you.

 

[GreyHand23]

We should be happy that this turned out so bad. Hopefully it finally forces Microsoft to build a more robust and collaborative process between all of their studios and their acquisition process to ensure higher quality overall.

 

[R6Rider]

Leave it to Riky to defend every exclusive, even Redfall.

Give him a break, it was his GotY contender.

 

[CamHostage]

This doesn't necessitate MS directly hands on with Arkane though. It's probably more of a Zenimax directive from MS (i.e. we will ship deathloop and ghostwire PS and DLC for 76 and ESO but stop working on anything PS for the other products)

Or the flipside, MS offered Bethesda promotion and funding support to ensure an iffy game got the visibility it needed to do well. (Except the quality never came through on Redfall so the tactic backfired.) Same as Sony backing the previous two games for an exclusivity window made them bigger than they would have been alone, and same with Hi-Fi Rush being a stealth-release launched to GP made it an instant star. if the product is marketed right it can have greater potential as an exclusive product for a platform rather than in a standard release structure.

MS obviously has authority over Bethesda if they have to put hands on, and they have clear reason to claim massive tentpoles like Starfield for itself. However, if Bethesda is going to remain a publisher rather than just a group of developers under the XBGS banner, it's got to have some latitude in its business ventures. Bethesda's best customer is Microsoft, and outside mobile and Steam/EGS, MS needs to justify them not needing anybody else but them.

 

[balls of snow]

Well it is a single player game, I've played through it alone. Something doesn't add up as all these claims of GAAS and microtransactions are strange as the game has no store and no matchmaking.
Maybe they meant it to be like Destiny but as people left they decided it wouldn't be supported so just released it without all the online stuff.

The bloomberg article said they ripped it out once gaas was a toxic keyword for gamers back in 2021. Also ms bought zenimax so there was no need for it.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Arkane hoped MS would cancel their turd so it is MS fault in the end ?

Maybe Arkane should have hoped, and tried, to make a good game instead ?

This is beyond ridiculous.

They can only make what they can with the resources they have. Everything about RedFall screams that the basic elements of a good game are present. It's just that everything about them are very unpolished and rushed.

Cars exploding the exact same way no matter where you shoot them. Cars catching on fire after being shot in the tire. Cars burning on fire while sitting in an obvious pool of water. Enemy AI being braindead and nonexistent. Rough unfinished animations. Shadow pop-in. Characters with disproportionately sized hands. Horrendous texture & LOD pop-in.

All of those are things either more time, money, manpower or a combination of the three would have resolved. Arkane Austin themselves are a talented studio if you look at their history. But they were pushed on a totally new model of game they had no prior experience with, and no amount of support higher-up to guide them or direct them to do it right. Of course RedFall was going to turn out a disaster under those conditions.

But that's both on Zenimax's previous owners, and their owner, Microsoft. The latter for being way too hands-off and not knowing when the pull the plug, just so they could have more content for Game Pass.

 

[xrnzaaas]

I think this shows Microsoft's attitude. They didn't perform a detailed audit of all the projects in the studios they've taken over (and reacted to the ones with unsatisfying quality) and just gave them free reign so that they would have ANY games coming out. Hopefully there will be some changes made after this catastrophe.

 

[Morrie’s wig shop]

Yeah man, watching people provide commentary on a laughable POS is much more entertaining than the pain of playing it myself, feel free to disagree.

In case you missed it I provided a direct quote from someone who worked on the game, I’ll post it again for you;

Disagree and freely, I do.
I think you’d be in a much better head space if you really didn’t give much thought for something you hate so much.
Just like here in the states, you have democrats watching Fox News and republicans watching CNN and they wonder why everyone hates everything .

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I think this shows Microsoft's attitude. They didn't perform a detailed audit of all the projects in the studios they've taken over (and reacted to the ones with unsatisfying quality) and just gave them free reign so that they would have ANY games coming out. Hopefully there will be some changes made after this catastrophe.

Get Phil Spencer out of there and have someone more competent and able to read the room, and make better decisions, and things will get better.

He's been involved with Microsoft's gaming efforts one way or another since 2008; they shouldn't need to read impressions on forums or social media to gauge if they've made a bad decision pushing out a game that was better off cancelled. He should instinctively know these things by now.

The fact they still don't is troubling and shows chances are more likely the situation repeats itself in the future, instead of ceasing.

 

[Banjo64]

Disagree and freely, I do.
I think you’d be in a much better head space if you really didn’t give much thought for something you hate so much.
Just like here in the states, you have democrats watching Fox News and republicans watching CNN and they wonder why everyone hates everything .

I’m fine thanks, hate is a strong word. As I said, the gameplay and commentary was very funny and made pleasant viewing.

 

[Ozriel]

There was no way MS was going to cancel a live service game that could drive GP subscriptions, same reason why they continue to burn money in the giant pit that is called Halo Infinite, same reason why they want to spend $70 billion on Activision.

I dunno, I watched a lot of Redfall reviews and I think it did have potential, it was just incompetently executed on every level. If Arkane didn't want to work on it, it certainly shows in the final project but also major issues up and down from management to production to the devs all of whom couldn't figure it out.

It’s not a live service game though.

 

[SJRB]

Imagine working on a game that is so bad 70% of your colleagues left the company and you actively hope it gets canceled even though you've been working on it for five years.

Insane. How do you even get through the workday?

 

[ANDS]

Either option was going to be a nightmare for them.

A: let them cancel the game, and you get a huge uproar. Allow them to make the game and gamble with that chance.

There was no clear win here.

Why would there have been a "huge uproar?" REDFALL was revealed AFTER the acquisition and didn't have a gameplay video well into MS's ownership of BETH. MS could have stepped in at ANY point especially if they were seeing that staff morale on this game wasn't positive.

 

[feynoob]

Why would there have been a "huge uproar?" REDFALL was revealed AFTER the acquisition and didn't have a gameplay video well into MS's ownership of BETH. MS could have stepped in at ANY point especially if they were seeing that staff morale on this game wasn't positive.

Because people will get the pitchfork for cancelling it, when they need a content. Especially with how much quality games arkane put out before this game.

Aside of the devs who were working on it, no one knew it was going to be bad.

Look at perfect dark development news on this website.

 

[nikolino840]

If Microsoft cancelled the game we would have got another Scalebound with people complaining how they game was cancelled after all these years

Now we can just move forward and forget.

I see in the future :

"Redfall was the only game that would get me an xbox"

 

[StylishMGTOW]

Redfall was announced a few months after Microsoft acquired Bethesda at their Xbox E3 2021 showcase. If they would have cancelled Redfall shortly after the acquisition, nobody would have known about this game. So, your option A doesn’t make any sense.

I laughed at 'uproar', as if this was a game everyone was desperately waiting for.

 

[Alebrije]

Ok that is fucking hilarious

>Instead, Microsoft maintained a hands-off approach. Aside from canceling a version of Redfall that had been planned for rival Sony Corp.’s PlayStation

...so it wasn't a hands-off approach, at all. It was hands-on in all the wrong ways.

So this is why Phil has taken all the blame...

 

[Lupin25]

It didn’t make sense to cancel the PS5 version. Also, cancelling it on PS5 almost guarantees it sells ten times worse (over time), even if it’s perceived as a bad game.

Based on the language and rhetoric before the acquisition you wouldn’t have thought this would happened. Then when it was announced as a full MS exclusive, that put all the pressure in the world on Arkane to deliver.

I’m just hoping Starfield is the one for Xbox.

 

[bender]

Ok that is fucking hilarious

>Instead, Microsoft maintained a hands-off approach. Aside from canceling a version of Redfall that had been planned for rival Sony Corp.’s PlayStation

...so it wasn't a hands-off approach, at all. It was hands-on in all the wrong ways.

Considering how Redfall turned out, I'd say Phil did Playstation Gamers a solid.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Different approaches to the extreme between MS and Sony.
One releases a bad game, fully aware of its state, just to add another game to the list, the other cancels games that could be just ok and many people could still get some enjoyment out of them just because they wouldn't get overwhelmingly positive reviews and it could tarnish a little bit the brand image.
I'm not liking the direction of either of them.

I think this is more nuanced than that. Microsoft purchased Zeni/Bethesda while this was in development. I'm sure they didn't want to rock the boat with Zeni/Bethesda management by buying the company and then just killing a game. It's a sensitive situation really. I think unfortunately it kind of had to go this way so the public could see the reception, see how bad it was and it gave MS the backing to be able to enforce some more serious moderation with the Zenimax / Bethesda management.

That's the hope anyway.

 

[AJUMP23]

That is bad leadership to not communicate with the money people about the issues and how to improve the game or process and what a change would do.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I don't get it, it's well established that the game is dogshit and the development process was a mess (didn't even need today's articles to tell us that, you could see it based on the final product).

What is there to even defend, and more importantly, why?

For The Brand™

Give him a break, it was his GotY contender.

Never. In. Doubt.™ Arkane. Always. Delivers.™

 

[EviLore]

MS doesn’t seem very good at this.

 

[NickFire]

Ok that is fucking hilarious

>Instead, Microsoft maintained a hands-off approach. Aside from canceling a version of Redfall that had been planned for rival Sony Corp.’s PlayStation

...so it wasn't a hands-off approach, at all. It was hands-on in all the wrong ways.

I'm shocked that a narrative is emerging of MS being hands off. It almost gives the impression that this was not really an MS studio for the last 2 years and couple months of development. Shocked I tell you.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I thought the whole point of allowing MS to backstop these studios is so that they could make games they wanted to make rather than be forced to chase Live Service trends?

Seems like MS had a bad grasp of the state of affairs of what employees vs management wanted at their studios.

Pre-Merger, Arkane was forced by upper management to go after bigger $$ potential (aka live service). We are now finding out that chasing these games can destroy studios; nobody wants to make them unless it’s in their DNA like Bungie

Rocksteady is the next shoe to drop

 

[lukilladog]

 

[DeepEnigma]

I'm shocked that a narrative is emerging of MS being hands off. It almost gives the impression that this was not really an MS studio for the last 2 years and couple months of development. Shocked I tell you.

There is always a deflection or an out. This just makes them look worse, honestly.

 

[bender]

There is always a deflection or an out. This just makes them look worse, honestly.

I'm just going to assume Arkane was the red-headed stepchild of this acquisition.

 

[ChoosableOne]

Playground games probably expects the same thing for Fable lol.

 

[MarkMe2525]

If they had autonomy and believed it should be cancelled, why didn't they cancel it themselves?

 

[Nydius]

Hopefully there will be some changes made after this catastrophe.

One can hope, but I wouldn't expect it. After all, Microsoft's big thing now is Game Pass subscriptions and quality doesn't matter there -- only quantity and hype. The source may be biased (being "TrueAchievements" and all), but their weekly most popular games on Xbox tracking showed Redfall at number 3 on May 9, dropping down to 13th on May 14, 19th on May 21, and 31st by May 28. That's a precipitous drop to be sure, but the fact that it stayed in (or close to) the top 10 of their tracking for almost two weeks tells Microsoft that it performed well enough that it accomplished it's goal: Driving Game Pass subs and recurring revenue.

I call it Shovelware Pass to be snarky but there's more truth to that than most want to admit. Scrolling through the "All Games" listing of the Game Pass menu is akin to walking through the "PC Games" aisle of an office store circa the mid-2000s. A bunch of low budget titles, ancient titles we've already played, compilations, and, if you dig far enough, the rare decent gem.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

If they had autonomy and believed it should be cancelled, why didn't they cancel it themselves?

Sunk cost fallacy by poor leadership at Arkane / Bethesda, and Microsoft being far too passive

 

[Kacho]

Rocksteady is the next shoe to drop

I can’t lie. I’m looking forward to it. The sooner publishers have reasons to fear chasing the GAAS trend the better.

 

[Crayon]

It's kind of depressing to think about a studio hoping their game gets cancelled.

 

[bender]

If they had autonomy and believed it should be cancelled, why didn't they cancel it themselves?

 

[adamsapple]

Maybe during development they ripped out all GAAS and MP stuff? Who knows.

IIRC, it was Playground who pitched the idea to MS, I'll try to find a source for this and edit it but that's what I recall reading before.