Rykan
Member
He said Xcloud Compatible devices. You're only counting current gamepass subscribers, but any device is capable of signing up and subscribing to Gamepass at any moment, provided they live in a supported area.
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IGN France: Yes, Redfall was originally planned for PS5
- Thread starter jm89
- Start date
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
"signing up and subscribing" - so obviously they can't be counted until they sign up and are able to play the game.
Otherwise, by that logic, Microsoft took away Redfall from 8 billion people because anyone can buy a PS5.
Only current players who are currently able to play can be counted.
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ToTTenTranz
Banned
By cutting Redfall out of Playstation, it's pretty obvious that less people will be playing the game.
Making the game playable on GamePass / XCloud might increase the Total Addressable Market for everyone with a PC, Samsung TV, etc. (number of people who are capable of buying and playing the game), but it's also decreasing their Obtainable Market (i.e. number of people who are capable and willing to buy and play the game).
You can increase the TAM all you want, but in the end you only sell your product to the SOM.
Making the game playable on GamePass / XCloud might increase the Total Addressable Market for everyone with a PC, Samsung TV, etc. (number of people who are capable of buying and playing the game), but it's also decreasing their Obtainable Market (i.e. number of people who are capable and willing to buy and play the game).
You can increase the TAM all you want, but in the end you only sell your product to the SOM.
Rykan
Member
Now you're just being absurd. You can subscribe to gamepass and use the supported hardware that you own to play the game. Subscribing to Gamepass is no different then purchasing a game in this particular context.
You have access to a game on PS5 if you buy it (Same as subscribing) for your Playstation 5.
You have access to a game on Xcloud if you subscribe (Same as purchasing) for your supported device (Mobile, computer, w/e)
By your logic, nobody has access to the game because you need to purchase it first.
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geary
Member
Yea, but as the PS5 can BUY the game or not, on xCloud you can subscribe on gamepass or not to play the game.
The issue here is that hardware where you have the possibility to play the game on xCloud thourgh GP are way more than playstation hardware.
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Deathloop was a unique game and don’t forget prey, they weren’t clear about Redfall being exclusive.
Nocturno999
Member
Let's hope you also think the same about Sony.
And I'm not the only one that thinks that Bethesda was also working on a PS5 version of Starfield.
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cireza
Member
I would be curious to know what is the source for the information that MS is going to stop accepting new XCloud subscriptions after 25 millions ? If you take into account that the number for PS users will increase, then do the same with XCloud.
The number of XCloud subscribers is not constrained by the number of PS available, but by the number of compatible Xcloud devices. I know that PS is successful, but I still think that the number is below compatible PCs and phones. So the game will be available to a much wider audience.
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Pedro Motta
Member
Of course they were.
You think that before the aquisition they were like: "Let's put our biggest game ever and our biggest investment ever only in the platform that sells less, and leave out the platform that makes us more money?"
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
When did I say that?
25 million GP subscribers is the last official data we have from Microsoft. We can always revisit the calculations whenever MS releases updated GP numbers.
As of now, however, there are 32 million PS5s and 25 million GP/xCloud active users. So if Redfall is released today, 8 million fewer people will be able to play the game -- and that goes against what Phil Spencer said that they want "more people to be able to play these games." (which was the basis of their acquisition)
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
You're complicating it needlessly.
If Redfall is released today:
- 32 million PS5 owners won't have the ability to play the game (because Microsoft canceled the PS5 version)
- 25 million xCloud users will have the ability to play the game (because Microsoft put it on Game Pass)
cireza
Member
Ok, with a "right now" point of view, I get what you mean.
However the calculation for MS is of course to expand XCloud as much as possible. So even if people are not active users yet, technically, Redfall will be playable by a much wider audience if available on every smartphone over the globe. And this would not have happened without MS stepping in and putting the game on XCloud.
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Umbasaborne
Banned
Sony’s cool though right? Snatching up all sorts of money hats, permanent and timed. Lets be real, if this were sony doing this way less people on gaf would be irate
Sony isn't buying publishers and saying they bought them to keep up the status quo.
Until that happens, you don't have a point here
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Yeah sony's cool.
Sony's mostly buying developers that already were pretty much just making exclusives for them.
Bungie's the only example that contradicts this.
So far they've pledged to still make multiplatforms, so yes sony's cool.
Sony is also not responsible for making a paywall to play online games. Ms is. So yes sony's cool.
Team Andromeda
Member
You buy a corp for exclusives and I've much doubt there's any documentation that MS signed off with a promise and guarantee to bring Redfall to the PSV
Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
Guess what? It's not now. Move on.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
MS forced Sony to charge for PSN?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yes. By gunpoint.
mansoor1980
Gold Member
Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
Such fanboy-ism here.
If a company buys a developer, they put the games on their own platform. End of story. There is no obligation to appease other platforms. If it makes business sense...sure....like existing franchises which have fanbases, like COD, and Minecraft, but new franchises, like Starfield and Redfall........should have no expectation or reason to have to be multi platform.
Sony fans crying even though the company has a long history (and recent) of paying for exclusivity and having their own studios make exclusive games (Horizon, GOW, Spider-Man).
It's no different.
If a company buys a developer, they put the games on their own platform. End of story. There is no obligation to appease other platforms. If it makes business sense...sure....like existing franchises which have fanbases, like COD, and Minecraft, but new franchises, like Starfield and Redfall........should have no expectation or reason to have to be multi platform.
Sony fans crying even though the company has a long history (and recent) of paying for exclusivity and having their own studios make exclusive games (Horizon, GOW, Spider-Man).
It's no different.
Team Andromeda
Member
So it's okay for SONY to buy developers that it paid to keep games exclusive on its system beforehand? And what are you on about a paywall? I think SEGA beat both SONY and MS to it with its paywall in Japan for Saturn online games and then the move to do it on the latter DC online games in USA,
PlayStation fans act no better than Man Utd fans calling out Man City for their spending; when Man Utd was spending for fun and outspending their rivals, there wasn't a single complaint from the man Utd fans. To see PlayStation say they suddenly care for honesty and multiplatform games is irony at its peak.
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nikolino840
Member
Also haven or insomniac..now microsoft can't ask them to make xbox games
vaibhavpisal
Member
Willing to make avatar bet, this will be highest played Arkane game ever. By a huge margin.
Gamepass subscribers might be capped at 25 million, but game will reach a whole lot more of potential audiance, ushering us in new era of IP growth and engagement.
MS is thinking big, hence they have worded their thoughts in specific way. Something narrow minded warriors will never understand.
Gamepass subscribers might be capped at 25 million, but game will reach a whole lot more of potential audiance, ushering us in new era of IP growth and engagement.
MS is thinking big, hence they have worded their thoughts in specific way. Something narrow minded warriors will never understand.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
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Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
'Take away' implies existing franchises.....not new IP's.....But hey, that's not me!
Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
I have both...I don't care. It's just such hypocrisy.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Innit
BiohazardX95
Member
Then what about elder scrolls?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
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Zuzu
Member
Exclusives will always exist whether that be in the form of games, services or special hardware. Other than lowering their hardware and software costs below their competition, how else are Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft able to compete and differentiate themselves from the competition without offering something that is exclusive to their platform that the others don’t offer?
But I do agree that Microsoft shouldn’t give the impression that they don’t intend to make many games that will come from Bethesda and Activision/Blizzard exclusive to their gaming platform. Unless they do intend to release the vast majority across multiple platforms but simply compete by putting said games on GamePass and so offer the games at a lower point of entry with regards to price compared to Sony or Nintendo.
But I do agree that Microsoft shouldn’t give the impression that they don’t intend to make many games that will come from Bethesda and Activision/Blizzard exclusive to their gaming platform. Unless they do intend to release the vast majority across multiple platforms but simply compete by putting said games on GamePass and so offer the games at a lower point of entry with regards to price compared to Sony or Nintendo.
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Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
Each game is basically stand-alone......
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
So they are buying Activision and Call of Duty for exclusivity?
Rykan
Member
You're the one who is complicating it because you're trying to come up with arbitrary rules as to why only current subscribers of gamepass should be counted instead of every device that can subscribe and access gamepass/xcloud.You're complicating it needlessly.
If Redfall is released today:
That's a net deduction of 8 million people who won't be able to play Redfall. And that goes against Phil Spencer's quote:
- 32 million PS5 owners won't have the ability to play the game (because Microsoft canceled the PS5 version)
- 25 million xCloud users will have the ability to play the game (because Microsoft put it on Game Pass)
By that same logic, you can't include every single PS5 owner as having the ability to play the game because only PS5 owners who spend 70$ (Or whatever the price is at any given time) can access the game. While we don't know how many that would be, it certainly wouldn't be equal to the amount of gamepass subscribers.
The quote that you keep posting is incomplete. Here is the full context again:
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Yeah they did when they showed there's quite a lot of revenue to be made from it.
Plus they had a lot of useful idiots defending the practice.
Next they'll force sony to buy big 3rd party developers/publishers to keep up with ms practices.
Want me to keep explaining how business works?
Yes, it is.
The day you'll finally understand that the magnitude of buying a publisher is a lot bigger than buying a developer that only makes exclusive for them, you'll also feel that it's okay.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Phil said this right away
“With the addition of the Bethesda creative teams, gamers should know that Xbox consoles, PC, and Game Pass will be the best place to experience new Bethesda games, including some new titles in the future that will be exclusive to Xbox and PC players.”
Seems pretty obvious what the intent was
Insomniac made 1 multiplatform in their life.
And one exclusive for a console other than sony.
Can't say anything about haven as I'm unaware what games they made
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
dotnotbot
Member
So Elder Scrolls 6 will release on PS5 then?
Lupin25
Member
Was this after the purchase or before it?
It seems the issue is that this rhetoric after the acquisition is somewhat contradictory of his phrasing in pursuit of it.
Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
Probably will.....but each game is really not a sequel but stand-alone.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
After the purchase
But also like others have pointed out Phils wording has been they would never take games away which technically is true, they just didn't promise new games would be multiplat
Shitty I agree but also not lying like so many want to claim
I have said it before Phil is a used car salesman and pretty good at it and I genuinely like Phil as he is actually a funny guy outside of the Xbox talking head mold
MiguelItUp
Member
To be fair, "the big 3" (Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft) are far from being saints of any kind. They've all done and associated with shitty practices. This industry is a business, and they've done things to make it clear they feel that way, as they should. They don't care about the perspective of the consumer, they want the loyalty, and the money. But radical fans will continue to praise company x, y, z. I wouldn't say anyone is a "cancer" to this industry, this industry has changed, a LOT. Each dabble in shitty practices that don't really push the industry in a good direction.
That being said, I bet a ton of "angry" people never really cared about Redfall until this "news" came to light. I can understand coming to conclusions about future titles, but I wouldn't assume too much.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Exactly. And this was after the acquisition closed, on March 09, 2021.
fermcr
Member
Sony is such a cancer to this industry...
My god...
(Both companies are BAD. If Sony purchased Bethesda, it would likely be worse. We wouldn't get the PC version of the game, or get it much later...)
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I haven't seen anywhere they explicitly said all future games will remain multiplat