Support NeoGAF

[Entroyp]

Lots of grumpy people here. Relax guys, the TF war is not over yet.

 

[ShadowWolf712]

Welcome to my ignore list. You're the first.

The tears on my pillow bespeak the pain that is in my heart.

I don't know how I shall cope.

 

[siekro1983]

After MS confirmed RDNA2 and 12 TF I read on this very forum that they were rounding up to 12, that they were still talking equivalents, that they were at 11.x + CPU. So you are wrong. AMD has not confirmed anything, that's the point. If they had, it would be clear as day, but it's not. It's just the same messaging that makes everybody see what they want to see.

No offense dude but i was one who thought github was 100% real. it's pretty clear to me that PS5 will use use AMD latest ray tracing tech, because they literally said it. other wise they would be in serious trouble.

 

[JTCx]

This is sony's genius strategy. Withhold revealing the ps5 so the xbros can constantly be at the edge of their seat and foaming at the mouth playing mental gymnastics.

 

[Heinrich]

This is sony's genius strategy. Withhold revealing the ps5 so the xbros can constantly be at the edge of their seat and foaming at the mouth playing mental gymnastics.

lol as if. Sony is making a fool of themselves. Weak.

 

[ShadowWolf712]

lol as if. Sony is making a fool of themselves. Weak.

The only ones making fools of themselves are fanboys making wild speculation one way or the other.

 

[01011001]

No offense dude but i was one who thought github was 100% real.

the github leak is 100% real, we just don't know how close it is to the target specs of the final console

 

[siekro1983]

the github leak is 100% real, we just don't know how close it is to the target specs of the final console

I know its real but I 100% believed ps5 would be 9.2 teraflops. Now I no longer believe them after amd confirmed RDNA2 in PS5.

 

[01011001]

I know its real but I 100% believed ps5 would be 9.2 teraflops. Now I no longer believe them after amd confirmed RDNA2 in PS5.

why? all that RDNA2 adds to this is that it's 50% more efficient.
it's more expensive than RDNA1 if I understood it correctly... so wouldn't this make it more likely?

also with RDNA1 a 2ghz GPU would have been extremely hot, now with RDNA2 it would run way cooler and higher clocks are way easier to maintain.

if anything RDNA2 at 2ghz is more likely than RDNA1 at 2ghz.

the thing is, we have no Idea what Sony is aiming for with the PS5, and maybe the 9 to 10 TF range was always their target.

 

[Journey]

the github leak is 100% real, we just don't know how close it is to the target specs of the final console

Sony can't change the design at this point, but they CAN certainly increase the TF number by increasing the clock speeds. I can see them increasing their original target from 9.2 TF to closer to 10 even if it costs them some heat, it all depends how much they believe 9.2 vs 12 will affect their bottom line.

 

[siekro1983]

why? all that RDNA2 adds to this is that it's 50% more efficient.
it's more expensive than RDNA1 if I understood it correctly... so wouldn't this make it more likely?

also with RDNA1 a 2ghz GPU would have been extremely hot, now with RDNA2 it would run way cooler and higher clocks are way easier to maintain.

if anything RDNA2 at 2ghz is more likely than RDNA1 at 2ghz.

the thing is, we have no Idea what Sony is aiming for with the PS5, and maybe the 9 to 10 TF range was always their target.

The leak said it would have a rdna part, and with most insiders including a developer saying it will be around 11-13 teraflops It no longer holds weight for me. Can it still be 9.2 teraflops, yes it can but I no longer see it as a likely outcome.

 

[01011001]

Sony can't change the design at this point, but they CAN certainly increase the TF number by increasing the clock speeds. I can see them increasing their original target from 9.2 TF to closer to 10 even if it costs them some heat, it all depends how much they believe 9.2 vs 12 will affect their bottom line.

with RDNA2 that is at least more realistic than before yes.

people seem to think just because they use RDNA2 that also means they will use the biggest possible RDNA2 chip, when in reality there will most likely be Navi2x chips with around 40CUs

Navi10 (which the leak was) is a 40CU rdna1 version, but it goes down to Navi14 which only is 24CU

basically Sony could use the Navi14 equivalent of RDNA2 (Navi24 or whatever the naming will be)

a chip like that will most likely be a better fit for a console than that GitHub leaked Navi10 chip was

 

[Md Ray]

I think PS5 GPU with machine learning features, hw-based RT, it might be RDNA 2 with some features borrowed from RDNA 3. This is entirely possible. So it may not be clear-cut RDNA 2 like XSX is, but even more custom kinda like how PS4 Pro had Polaris GPU with Vega features, and it probably even has higher TF count than XSX but not by much.

 

[Heinrich]

I think PS5 GPU with machine learning features, hw-based RT, it might be RDNA 2 with some features borrowed from RDNA 3. This is entirely possible. So it may not be clear-cut RDNA 2 like XSX is, but even more custom kinda like how PS4 Pro had Polaris GPU with Vega features, and it probably even has higher TF count than XSX but not by much.

lol. RDNA 3 bwahaha. No. Just no.

 

[01011001]

I think PS5 GPU with machine learning features, hw-based RT, it might be RDNA 2 with some features borrowed from RDNA 3. This is entirely possible. So it may not be clear-cut RDNA 2 like XSX is, but even more custom kinda like how PS4 Pro had Polaris GPU with Vega features, and it probably even has higher TF count than XSX but not by much.

is this a troll post, I for real can't anymore.

also the PS4 pro didn't have a "Polaris GPU", it had a GCN1 gpu with certain features of polaris and vega

 

[Md Ray]

uh. nope?! it just says "custom AMD SOCs" could mean anything.. Why not just write there "powered by AMD RDNA 2.0?

Because it's not just powered by RDNA 2.0, there is another architecture in that SoC, Zen 2, the CPU. So the phrase "Custom AMD SoCs" makes more sense.

 

[CuNi]

Without saying what is or what is not, semantically it does not 100% clearly say it's RDNA2.
I'm pretty sure it will be RDNA2 just as MS's Console will have it, but if we're semantically correct, they did not say it, they talked about RDNA in a PC and GPU Market context and Consoles were shown with a "Custom AMD APU", and even talked about RT-HW as being "a architecture", which sounds like if they use Chiplet Design, could integrate it into a custom APU, without the APU being 100% RDNA2 feature wise.

But honestly, the most important part is both having Raytracing if we're being honest.
Wonder how devs will utilize that tbh. If it's only reflections like in Control or BF5, damn I'm going to be salty.

 

[demigod]

is this a troll post, I for real can't anymore.

also the PS4 pro didn't have a "Polaris GPU", it had a GCN1 gpu with certain features of polaris and vega

Are you for real? Educate yourself.

 

[01011001]

Without saying what is or what is not, semantically it does not 100% clearly say it's RDNA2.
I'm pretty sure it will be RDNA2 just as MS's Console will have it, but if we're semantically correct, they did not say it, they talked about RDNA in a PC and GPU Market context and Consoles were shown with a "Custom AMD APU", and even talked about RT-HW as being "a architecture", which sounds like if they use Chiplet Design, could integrate it into a custom APU, without the APU being 100% RDNA2 feature wise.

But honestly, the most important part is both having Raytracing if we're being honest.
Wonder how devs will utilize that tbh. If it's only reflections like in Control or BF5, damn I'm going to be salty.

wait why? reflections is by far the most important part. lighting is already really good in modern games even without RT, but reflections looks like absolute hot garbage in most games these days.

also Control uses RT for reflections and lighting... so that's basically all you can use it for without going 100% RT like Quake 2 RTX, and 100% RT is a very unnecessarily taxing and stupid thing to do outside of graphics demos lol

 

[01011001]

Are you for real? Educate yourself.

and you are outed as having no idea what you're talking about, yet still thinking you do. great, consider yourself checkmated in my memory as "has no clue"

the PS4 Pro uses a GCN1.1 based GPU. it has the Rapid Pack Math tech featured in Vega to boost half precision FLOP performance and the 4K HEVC decoding feature of Polaris.

that's how it is my dude, maybe educate yourself

 

[demigod]

and you are outed as having no idea what you're talking about, yet still thinking you do. great, consider yourself checkmated in my memory as "has no clue"

the PS4 Pro uses a GCN1.1 based GPU. it has the Rapid Pack Math tech featured in Vega and the 4K HEVC decoding feature of Polaris.

that's how it is my dude, maybe educate yourself

It's a Polaris GPU, which is STILL GCN architecture. Still making a fool out of yourself as usual .

 

[ResilientBanana]

lighting is already really good in modern games even without RT

WRONG.

 

[01011001]

It's a Polaris GPU, which is STILL GCN architecture. Still making a fool out of yourself as usual .

polaris is GCN4.0 the PS4 Pro is GCN1.1

GCN4.0 has many enhancements the Pro does not have.

you literally have no idea what you are talking about... zero, nada, null, naught

 

[CuNi]

wait why? reflections is by far the most important part. lighting is already really good in modern games even without RT, but reflections looks like absolute hot garbage in most games these days.

also Control uses RT for reflections and lighting... so that's basically all you can use it for without going 100% RT like Quake 2 RTX, and 100% RT is a very unnecessarily taxing and stupid thing to do outside of graphics demos lol

I don't know if it was in this thread or one of the 200x other discussing RT/RNDA/Consoles but one had comparison shots of Control, calling the difference "night and day" but while I could tell which one is which, for me the difference wasn't that big. I think RT is in a tight spot rn. Demos like the Star Wars Stormtrooper Demo looked astonishingly good. Question ofc. how much really needed to be RT and how much could be done with raster and still get the same outcome.

On the other side, you got games like Control where there was a lot of potential for RT, but (and this is my personal opinion) a lot of the reflections looked too much, as if the floor and a lot of the surrounding was wet constantly etc.
I also dislike the look of Quake RTX and those Minecraft RTX mods, they just look like too much, but I guess that's my personal opinion.

Maybe games that take place outdoors or games with RT in mind while development will convince me and I really do hope that more RT games will get created that look good. I just fear that RT will be a "cheap" effect that many dev's will half heartedly slap onto their titles to inflate some "Games with RTX!" List but actually look worse than without.

 

[Md Ray]

is this a troll post, I for real can't anymore.

also the PS4 pro didn't have a "Polaris GPU", it had a GCN1 gpu with certain features of polaris and vega

So you guys can deny PS5 is RDNA 2 despite multiple evidences and that's not trolling... I speculate saying that it *might* borrow features from RDNA 3, and it's trolling?

It is Polaris GPU.

Polaris is a very energy efficient GPU architecture that lets us boost the GPU power pretty dramatically, while keeping the console form-factor roughly the same. DCC - which is short for delta colour compression - is a roadmap feature that's been improved for Polaris. It's making its PlayStation debut in PS4 Pro," Mark Cerny shares, confirming in the process that this feature was not implemented in the standard PS4 model.

Inside PlayStation 4 Pro: How Sony made the first 4K games console

Six weeks on from the unveiling of the Sony's latest console and I'm in a conference room in Sony's new San Mateo HQ, r…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[01011001]

WRONG.

well comparatively. it is. it's rare that you look at a shadow in a game and think it's a damn graphics glitch like you would looking at the damn Screen Space Reflections in Final Fantasy 15 lol...

so reflections should be top priority and then lighting

 

[01011001]

So you guys can deny PS5 is RDNA 2 despite multiple evidences and that's not trolling... I speculate saying that it *might* borrow features from RDNA 3, and it's trolling?

It is Polaris GPU.

Inside PlayStation 4 Pro: How Sony made the first 4K games console

Six weeks on from the unveiling of the Sony's latest console and I'm in a conference room in Sony's new San Mateo HQ, r…

www.eurogamer.net

well it seems like I had a source with bad info...

okay, I take the L

edit: but while looking into it further at the moment, it seems there are literally 2 stories out there.

I find instances where it is referred to as "mostly" GCN1.1 based with Polaris improvements and some vega features.

I don't think it is as cut and dry with such highly modified APUs.

because I also find instances where the PS4 gpu is said to be GCN2.0 based... which is throwing me off even more

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Ac

Haha who are we kidding in few hours they will start 8 tf rdna1 ps5 lol but muhhhhh githubbbbb saidddd

Actually this is 8tf in single precision, so the real number is 4tf + AI secret sauce (they wanted to use cloud but that has been spoiled before).

 

[DeeDogg_]

In other news, water is wet.

 

[CatLady]

Please Xbots stop debating whether the PS5 has RDA2, you're making all of us Xbots look bad.

Why do you even care? We KNOW for a fact the XsX has RDA2, we should be celebrating that instead of worrying about what the PS5 does or doesn't have. It will probably be sometime after 2023 before Sony ever reveals their specs, but I firmly believe the PS5 has RDNA2 and if somehow it doesn't, think what a glorious victory you'll achieve in the Great Console War.

I thought the worst of the zealots in the SDF were annoying and they are, but this RDA2 semantics war is even more annoying.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Please Xbots stop debating whether the PS5 has RDA2, you're making all of us Xbots look bad.

Why do you even care? We KNOW for a fact the XsX has RDA2, we should be celebrating that instead of worrying about what the PS5 does or doesn't have. It will probably be sometime after 2023 before Sony ever reveals their specs, but I firmly believe the PS5 has RDNA2 and if somehow it doesn't, think what a glorious victory you'll achieve in the Great Console War.

I thought the worst of the zealots in the SDF were annoying and they are, but this RDA2 semantics war is even more annoying.

No, no. Please continue.

 

[darkinstinct]

with RDNA2 that is at least more realistic than before yes.

people seem to think just because they use RDNA2 that also means they will use the biggest possible RDNA2 chip, when in reality there will most likely be Navi2x chips with around 40CUs

Navi10 (which the leak was) is a 40CU rdna1 version, but it goes down to Navi14 which only is 24CU

basically Sony could use the Navi14 equivalent of RDNA2 (Navi24 or whatever the naming will be)

a chip like that will most likely be a better fit for a console than that GitHub leaked Navi10 chip was

I give you one more: If Sony targets 499 with a 12 or even 13 TF machine comparable to Series X - it's going to have a huge problem in the market with Lockhart at 299. Sony realistically needs to target 399, and you don't get that with an even more powerful APU than Series X and a more powerful SSD.

 

[KlickKlack]

plot change:

let's us together hype the PS5 to 14TF + VRS + RT... RDNA 2 monster
.. and when all happy Sony fanboys learn in 2-3 months that's is only 9TF RDNA 1.....the shitt storm will be brutal...

don't be rude and help our Sony friends to belief its a monster

 

[DeepEnigma]

plot change:

let's us together hype the PS5 to 14TF + VRS + RT... RDNA 2 monster
.. and when all happy Sony fanboys learn in 2-3 months that's is only 9TF RDNA 1.....the shitt storm will be brutal...

don't be rude and help our Sony friends to belief its a monster

I don’t know what’s more retarded, your posts or that you act like your shit also doesn’t stink while making them.

 

[KlickKlack]

th

I don’t know what’s more retarded, your posts or that you act like your shit also doesn’t stink while making them.

the idea behind my post is genius....

 

[DeepEnigma]

th

the idea behind my post is genius....

 

[KlickKlack]

stop posting your nude pics...

 

[Gamernyc78]

So glad we can finally move on from this. This is good since I plan on buying both consoles, they need to be as powerful as possible without breaking the bank or catching the house on fire lol. I really hope the PS5 at least reaches 10TF and the more the better.



You act like Xbox fanboys are the only one who spins shit, its a two way street, both fanatics on both sides can be unbelievably embarrassing at times and make cringeworthy remarks.

Hell no!! lol the mistermedia x levels of spin you only see in one camp. I've been here through it all because I'm 41. Shit is cringe how even evidence doesn't sway them, it's a different beast.

 

[ResilientBanana]

well comparatively. it is. it's rare that you look at a shadow in a game and think it's a damn graphics glitch like you would looking at the damn Screen Space Reflections in Final Fantasy 15 lol...

so reflections should be top priority and then lighting

Wrong yet again. Light bouncing off of objects in real-time adds so much life and realism to a scene, it’s uncanny. To think reflections are the only thing that matter is beyond short sighted.

 

[Pallas]

Hell no!! lol the mistermedia x levels of spin you only see in one camp. I've been here through it all because I'm 41. Shit is cringe how even evidence doesn't sway them, it's a different beast.

Didn’t say one was worse than the other, ,both fan bases can be utterly shit at times. Just look at thelastword and you can’t tell me he/she posts some ridiculous fanboy shit at times. Mister whatever his name is disturbing, I’m not disagreeing with that Lol.

but this isn’t the thread for this so I apologize.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

lol as if. Sony is making a fool of themselves. Weak.

No you don't get it, if you get that high... then some news take it down it's much worse than if you expected parity, of even lower specs... this is like watching your team lose a football match - when you expected an easy win months in advance.

On the other side, well we sure would like the PS5 to be "stronger", and check all the boxes hardware wise (I expect nothing less from the Cerny). But we also have a proven track record in therms of games, etc.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Didn’t say one was worse than the other, ,both fan bases can be utterly shit at times. Just look at thelastword and you can’t tell me he/she posts some ridiculous fanboy shit at times. Mister whatever his name is disturbing, I’m not disagreeing with that Lol.

but this isn’t the thread for this so I apologize.

TLW may post ridiculous fanboy shit. But he does not resort to insane levels of praying Xbox fails, in fact, he usually says he wants competition to boost Sony more. He also never gets nasty and resorts to petty name calling and the like.

He just really prefers and likes the brand. But hoping for the one you don’t care for to fail, is a next level mental illness.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Okay, reacting to that actual audio of the quote now, yes the author clearly played with the quote (why? Kinda silly to do that), and yes he doesn't outright come out and say certain things, but there's also an obvious implication in what he did say by starting out his thoughts discussing RDNA2 and hardware ray tracing, and then immediately right after jumping to mentioning the new xbox and playstation being powered by radeon and supporting hardware ray tracing natively.

The implication from this sentence, though he does not say it directly, is that both Xbox and PS5 use RDNA2 and have hardware ray tracing built in. Regardless of my opinion, I have to be fair here and say that's the perceived implication from what I'm hearing.

It's no secret that I've always been skeptical about the PS5 and ray tracing only due to Sony's communication on it, and Cerny's clarifications never really convinced me before, and sony's ces certainly didn't help matters. I saw it more like attempting to clean up something they didn't really want to be more . This AMD statement, however, leads me to really believe that PS5 truly does have it and that it may also be powered by RDNA2 like Series X, although I'd also like confirmation directly from Sony about the RDNA 2 stuff, and of course there will come the games that will tell the story. So yea, it wasn't an entirely made up quote like I originally thought, but they weren't exactly honest about the proper context and details of what was said lol.

Tell to us, what are the reasons you believed that XSX will have RDNA 2 even before official announcement, Ray Tracing, VRS, Phil Spencer's face, Greenberg's face...?

I wasn't banned for any such thing. The things I have said have proven true. 12 teraflops and RDNA2, even when another ERA "insider" claimed it wasn't. I said confidently it was. Even when another fraud insider on era said the speed of the xbox ssd was a certain thing. I said he was wrong on that specific detail, and since then information has come out more or less confirming that he was wrong. Even Jez on windowscentral is rethinking his original beliefs on the speed of the xbox ssd.

I was banned for not agreeing with them on ps5 and ray tracing. Don't really care what anyone else thinks. I'll always believe what I want. That said, my new rule on here is to not feed the fanboys. When you get mad and start whining at me I just ignore you lol. There are people far more deserving here of being banned for being frauds than I am. Wrong consistently over and over, shifting arguments all over the place claiming to be insiders, and somehow are still untouched. The bar is that low for some. They don't need to be right, PS5 just needs to be near a certain threshold for them to stave off punishment.

Rumor claims RDNA2 build for Microsoft

If AMD did anything like that, they would destroy their relationship with Sony. No company should depend on just one large customer.... But continue to fantasise. I dont think this is likely just like Navi being exclusive to Sony isn't likely but if AMD were to do something like this I think...

www.neogaf.com

You were banned few times on ERA till permaban and also here.
Name insiders then. One insider surely was right on all what he said regarding XSX.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Kind of like Sony fans downplaying Series X even when it was “double the power of X” and even RDNA based. And this came from MS, not some GitHub spec sheet or heresay.

And still it got downplayed.

it ended up 12 tf RDNA 2 which is literally what they said.

Naaaah.
Tell that to Digital Foundry who literally asked MS after TGA REVEAL is XSXs 12TF Navi or GCN because Phil vague statement ''double the power of X1X''. Did DF downplayed holy Phil's vague statement "double the power of X1" then? Guess not.

 

[mitchman]

Sony actually says RDNA and not RDNA2 on their website.

That's not actually what they say.

 

[01011001]

Wrong yet again. Light bouncing off of objects in real-time adds so much life and realism to a scene, it’s uncanny. To think reflections are the only thing that matter is beyond short sighted.

how did you interpret a comment literally the first word I said was "comparatively" as: "reflections are the only thing that matter"
like, how?

of course lighting is important too, what I said is that modern AAA games have lighting that looks good an doesn't look like it is literally a glitch...
meanwhile if you look at any recent game what you will find are Screen Space reflections, and as soon as anything obscures the thing that should be reflected it looks like the image glitched out.
sail boats in FF15 look like they create a void in space time, or in any game as soon as you move the camera up or down shit disappears etc... that is instantly recognisable as not correct.

I remember a room in Quantum Break where there was a reflective table, and your character would reflect in that table... even tho the table was behind him.
also every elevator you entered turned into a freaking windows 95 simulator with reflections in them looking like this

meanwhile the lighting in say Red Dead 2 looks mostly believable even if it is not 100% realistic, the only real issue with lighting that still really looks bad is draw distance in large open environments.

which is why I say reflections should have top priority at first because that one is the area where modern games lack by far the most... we see grey metal plates in bathrooms where mirrors should be, or worse we see developers try to fake a reflection through SSR which looks like you're looking into an evil mirror universe where everything is distorted and cursed.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Fam. Stop your denial. Just. Stop.

It's RDNA2, time to move on.

Who is the delusional one here.

The guy who is staying open and saying RDNA 2.0 hasn't been explicitly confirmed yet and there is another possibility to the hardware design, or the guy who is 100% sure it's RDNA 2.0 based upon vagaries and cryptic statements?

They literally said on stage countless times yesterday that RT only works on RDNA2 with their silicon.

That's not how any of this works, you act like this is a different company tackling the task and as if they had a bus system on one and the guy died.

I don't even...

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[ethomaz]

Who is the delusional one here.

The guy who is staying open and saying RDNA 2.0 hasn't been explicitly confirmed yet and there is another possibility to the hardware design, or the guy who is 100% sure it's RDNA 2.0 based upon vagaries and cryptic statements?

That's not how any of this works, you act like this is a different company tackling the task and as if they had a bus system on one and the guy died.

I don't even...

So you are the delusional

Not surprised.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

So you are the delusional

This post from you right here is perpetuating this surety delusion from you guys.

It's all vague, could it be RDNA 2.0? Yes, is it likely it's RDNA 2.0? Yes, do we actually know that it is? No, no we do not, and that's inarguable.

It's that simple, and it's not even remotely outside of the bounds of reality that in this semi-custom SoC that it's a custom design mixing the two architectures and features of them.