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Nintendo were often quite envious of us, says former Rare staffer
- Thread starter TunaLover
- Start date
Manmademan
Member
I don't think that's it.
As someone else mentioned, Rares staff were leaving. Buying them wouldn't have stopped that.
Nintendo SHOULD HAVE bought Rares IP, but they simply weren't interested. At that point they had no interest in making games like perfect dark, killer instinct, or conker which went over like lead balloons in jp
AuthenticM
Member
I have no problem believing that Rare's games were technically superior to Nintendo's. Perfect Dark, Donkey Kong 64 and Jet Force Gemeni are probably the most impressive games on that system.
After this throw some cash at MS and get the ips...
Zen_Arcade
Banned
A+
Al Gore's Thermostat
Banned
Back to shovelware Kinect games and avatars, you.
Neff
Member
Because GC's Mario, Zelda and Mario Kart entries were relatively lacklustre efforts? Because GC launched late into the 6th generation? Because PS2 nuked the earth from orbit?
Don't get me wrong, N64 era Nintendo/Rare was a match made in heaven, to a point, but there are other factors impacting GC's sales against its predecessor.
What magical rare game are speaking of?
Metallix87
Member
I actually wonder if Microsoft would be willing to sell. Obviously Killer Instinct is in use, but the rest are just collecting dust right now.
Rare's greatest N64 achievement was getting PAL versions running at a good speed and full screen when most early games were terrible for big black borders and noticeably slower performance (PAL Wave Race, ye gods), something that then filtered down to later 1st party offerings.
Huh that actually sounds fun, I might get a copy for my N64.
I think that Nintendo didn't want to sell Rare but they also didn't want to pay what the Stamper brother was asking and when Microsoft brought the Stamper Bro shares Nintendo just sold their shares as well.
If I recall correctly Iwata wanted to buy the Banjo-Kazooie series but the higher up at Nintendo told him to forget it.
Shame really as giving Retro to work on Banjo-Kazooie could have been nice.
I can see how that makes sense. I mean, If Nintendo ever had the feeling that their capabilities were unique, and only they could make those "magical" games, Rare was right there saying nope, anything you can be we can do, sometimes better.
'94:
'95:
The top looks worse to me.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Perfect Dark is easily the most impressive N64 game. Especially with the RAM pack.
If i were Nintendo i would buy the entire property ips and even the building at Twycross.And finally do a deal for KI specifically to deal with it being in current development....
Metallix87
Member
But it runs like shit. It should've been pushed back and polished to be a Gamecube launch title.
Awful framerate in parts though.
I do find the claim in the OP believable though, at least wrt technical appearance. Artistically...that's another kettle of fish.
SniperHunter
Banned
I believe him
Always-honest
Banned
Yeah that was THEN, Rare.
Screens are also a bad way to judge those two games, too, since Yoshi's Island had way better animation and the Super FX-enabled sprite tricks they were able to pull off are still mind-blowing. But hey, people love their pre-rendered CG sprites!
I think that I had read that Aonuma felt that the Zelda team needed to raise the bar for Skyward Sword's graphics after MH3 came out, since they felt that game was representing the high bar they wanted to clear, so it's not exactly all that surprising that Nintendo would have felt the same way during Rare's heyday, in terms of tech. I know that they seriously busted their ass to get F-Zero X running at 60 fps, for example.
Dark Octave
Banned
I'll just leave this here. Sums up some things quite well I think 
http://www.rarefandabase.com/exclusive-can-nintendo-survive-without-rare/
http://www.rarefandabase.com/exclusive-can-nintendo-survive-without-rare/
The N64 in general is overrated. Both the GameCube and the SNES had much better libraries.
Yoshi's Island looks amazing. Far better than any other game on the SNES.I can see how that makes sense. I mean, If Nintendo ever had the feeling that their capabilities were unique, and only they could make those "magical" games, Rare was right there saying nope, anything you can be we can do, sometimes better.
'94:
'95:
Magicpaint
Member
Banjo Kazooie looked ridiculously good at the time. Some of the textures still look acceptable even today. Rare were definitely superior on a technical level. Now artistically and gameplay wise? No but their games were still fantastic.
Manmademan
Member
Nintendo has already come out on record as saying the pace at which they had to produce Mario, Zelda, Kart, etc for the GC had an impact on quality, and don't intend to do it again. Losing rare had a lot to do with having to rush their other internal studios.
The GC launched earlier in it's generation than the N64 did.
Sure. don't want to oversimplify, but losing rare as a first party developer (for volume reasons alone if nothing else) as well as literally giving microsoft the FPS audience and not even trying to retain it were huge, huge reasons for the N64 to GC drop.
What's so weird about that? Rare has been producing technical marvels ever since the NES era.
Their N64 output was even more impressive than what we saw from Factor 5.
Mario and Zelda on the GameCube weren't nearly as mind-blowing / ground-breaking as Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time, though. Not only they failed to move the series forward, but both were inferior to their predecessors.
Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time were the definition of system-seller titles, Super Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker, on the other hand, not so much.
But I generally believe that GameCube's problems were more fundamental than just software. GameCube suffered from horrible product-positioning and a terrible market perception. Both hurt its prospects since day 1.
I agree with you, though, the loss of Rare was a huge blow for Nintendo. One could even say that GameCube = N64 minus the GoldenEye phenomenon.
Their N64 output was even more impressive than what we saw from Factor 5.
Mario and Zelda on the GameCube weren't nearly as mind-blowing / ground-breaking as Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time, though. Not only they failed to move the series forward, but both were inferior to their predecessors.
Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time were the definition of system-seller titles, Super Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker, on the other hand, not so much.
But I generally believe that GameCube's problems were more fundamental than just software. GameCube suffered from horrible product-positioning and a terrible market perception. Both hurt its prospects since day 1.
I agree with you, though, the loss of Rare was a huge blow for Nintendo. One could even say that GameCube = N64 minus the GoldenEye phenomenon.
Metallix87
Member
Agreed. I even think the Wii U is already better. The 64 is totally overrated, and it's usually, IMO, because of nostalgia for Rare's releases.
StreetsAhead
Member
Congratulations, human person, you have successfully interneted.
I fucking loved this game, it was like Ratchet & Clank before that was a thing. Deserves a sequel so much. Tribal Hunting can fuck right off though.
Funny how each of those third parties is now dead. But then non-Japanese third parties were decimated over the last two generations, and it's not as if there wasn't damage on their end either.
Anyways I can see it perhaps on a technical level at least, but it's harder to believe in other regards.
You are completely oversimplifying it.
Goldeneye is completely overestimated in terms of how good of a game it was. Duke Nukem/Doom over LAN were all much better multiplayer experiences available at the time, and I would say have more to do with FPS gaming today than Goldeneye ever could.
The real Rare cashed out and ditched the rotting company anyways, hence the shitty output ever since.
Almost entirely by themselves? Come on.. As much as Goldeneye was massive for N64 so was Mario 64, Ocarina of Time and Turok (as well as plenty of others not from Rare to a lesser extent).
"Can Nintendo Survive Without Rare?" a Rare-centric site argues a decade later Rare was sold to MS and many talents left the company.I'll just leave this here. Sums up some things quite well I think
http://www.rarefandabase.com/exclusive-can-nintendo-survive-without-rare/
I'll just leave this here. Sums up some things quite well I think
http://www.rarefandabase.com/exclusive-can-nintendo-survive-without-rare/
That article fails to mention that Rare was dropping in quality or the fact that key members were leaving prior to being sold off.
That article seem to value quantity over quality something that Rare was guilty of doing.
Manmademan
Member
Nooooooooooo
As bad as the game was, Actraiser 2 is probably the high bar for SNES graphics.
It's a damn shame the game looks so great and plays SO BAD
BK and JFG mediocre...
I just CAN'T at this whole topic. People only giving Rare the technical achievement token...quick frankly with Rare around Nintendo wasn't special.
freezamite
Banned
Sorry but not even close. Besides the graphical capabilities of their titles, every single game they released similar to the ones Nintendo made was absolutely inferior in terms of gameplay.I can see how that makes sense. I mean, If Nintendo ever had the feeling that their capabilities were unique, and only they could make those "magical" games, Rare was right there saying nope, anything you can be we can do, sometimes better.
'94:
'95:
Well, Yoshi's Island actually holds up much better than DKC, and not just visually.
DKC2 is a better comparison. That has aged much much better and is quite simply a superior game to DKC1 in every single way.
Honestly? This sounds like it was a positive competitive environment. It forced both studios to work even harder to top the other. Anyone who played Rare and Nintendo's games from that time know that they were really great and visually surprising.
I think the Metroid Prime Trilogy are three of the most visually stunning games Nintendo's ever put out. I'd have to wonder if Nintendo felt internally envious of what they pulled off there. If only Team Ninja had gotten nearly as envious.
I think the Metroid Prime Trilogy are three of the most visually stunning games Nintendo's ever put out. I'd have to wonder if Nintendo felt internally envious of what they pulled off there. If only Team Ninja had gotten nearly as envious.
Metallix87
Member
True, but that may have been fluke, given how DKC3 and DK64 are.
When was any of Rare's games not of good quality? Aside from some framerate issues at times, they have always released good quality games.
Ehh, I think DKC3 is a great game. Not as good as DKC2, but still better than the first.
DK64 is horrendous though.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Hahaha
What would it have sold without Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Mario Kart, Majora's Mask or Turok?
Mario 64 sold 11 million copies btw, nobody's saying Rare didn't have a massive impact, but to say they carried the N64 almost entirely on their own is crazy.
seriously, i would instantly purchase any console, if they say "we are making a (real) sequel of (Banjo-Kazooie/Tooie) JetForceGemini or Conker's Bad Fur Day.
Yeaaaah let's compare the launch game that is regarded as a timeless classic vs the Rare title nobody cares about and let's point to the graphics being better in the latter as if somehow it mattered.
Donkey Kong 64.