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[TunaLover]

Tossell’s comments came about when asked if Nintendo ever shared code with Rare considering the Big N had a large stake in the company.

He said:
No, we never had the Zelda engine or any code they did! We did see an early version of Zelda and that was a big influence on Dinosaur Planet, though. Nintendo were often quite envious of us. I got the feeling they thought our games were technically and artistically superior to theirs. Miyamoto would visit regularly and I heard a rumor they redid all of the textures on Zelda after they’d seen our work on Banjo-Kazooie because our game looked better!

http://nintendoeverything.com/nintendo-were-often-quite-envious-of-us-says-former-rare-staffer/

Now that's a presumptuous thing to say, while most of Rare games were graphically very impressive in N64 they often suffer from serious frame rate problems, and no, no game from Rare came to the artistical degree to Majora's Mask, Ocarina of Time, Mario 64 IMHO.

 

[kinggroin]

This person, got the feeling.


Edit: Sure wish Nintendo (or anyone for that matter) still had the old staff together and making games today.

 

[Manmademan]

Tossell’s comments came about when asked if Nintendo ever shared code with Rare considering the Big N had a large stake in the company.

He said:
No, we never had the Zelda engine or any code they did! We did see an early version of Zelda and that was a big influence on Dinosaur Planet, though. Nintendo were often quite envious of us. I got the feeling they thought our games were technically and artistically superior to theirs. Miyamoto would visit regularly and I heard a rumor they redid all of the textures on Zelda after they’d seen our work on Banjo-Kazooie because our game looked better!

http://nintendoeverything.com/nintendo-were-often-quite-envious-of-us-says-former-rare-staffer/

Now that's a presumptuous thing to say, while most of Rare games were graphically very impressive in N64 they often suffer from serious frame rate problems, and no, no game from Rare came to the artistical degree to Majora's Mask, Ocarina of Time, Mario 64 IMHO.

Rare carried the N64 to what little success it had almost entirely by themselves.

The N64 with no goldeneye, banjo, etc would have done worse than GameCube numbers coming off the SNES

 

[NotLiquid]

Well, there WAS that supposed citation of Miyamoto shitting on DKC because it was the most groundbreaking thing on the SNES at the time, even if it might not be real. This wouldn't be too surprising if it were true.

Rare was a rarity indeed.

 

[Gartooth]

Rare did make the most graphically impressive games on the N64. (DK64, Conker, Banjo-Tooie)

Hell, compare what EAD accomplished with Mario Kart 64 compared to Rare's Diddy Kong Racing and it is almost night and day.

 

[Metallix87]

I have a lot of choice things I'd like to say about Rare, but that's for another time. Instead, I'll simply say this: I doubt Nintendo envied Rare, and I suspect the reverse was closer to the reality.

 

[Aostia]

well, could be true. they did great stuff back ion the days

 

[SolidSnakex]

Rare carried the N64 to what little success it had almost entirely by themselves.

The N64 with no goldeneye, banjo, etc would have done worse than GameCube numbers coming off the. SNES.

Only 3 of the top 10 best selling N64 games came from RARE. The other 7 were Nintendo's own games.

 

[Jacobi]

I wonder why Nintendo let's Retro do some technical help (with MK7 f.e.) and Rare never got to do this... I guess old Yakuza-Yamauchi business strategy

 

[TunaLover]

Rare carried the N64 to what little success it had almost entirely by themselves.

The N64 with no goldeneye, banjo, etc would have done worse than GameCube numbers coming off the. SNES.

I'm not saying they were bad games, I'm saying that they weren't superior technically neither artistically.

 

[Faiz]

This person, got the feeling.

Hey now, he also heard a rumor!

 

[JDSN]

I bet Dyack and Julian Eggwhatever said the same thing at some point.

 

[Plinko]

Good. It drove them to be better. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Cheeky]

Well, there WAS that supposed citation of Miyamoto shitting on DKC because it was the most groundbreaking thing on the SNES at the time, even if it might not be real. This wouldn't be too surprising if it were true.

Rare was a rarity indeed.

I believe it wasnt shitting as much as it was just saying that DKC was Graphics over gameplay. Apperently the big suits at Nintendo wanted a graphically impressive Mario game like DKC and Miyamoto made Yoshi's island(which is really impressive technically, but has a cute artstyle)

 

[kinggroin]

Rare carried the N64 to what little success it had almost entirely by themselves.

The N64 with no goldeneye, banjo, etc would have done worse than GameCube numbers coming off the SNES

Rare helped, for sure...but you have clouded memories here.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Nintendo_64_video_games

 

[The Bankslammer]

I'll just say that Nintendo probably went with the right choice not swiping the "just add googly-eyes" design philosophy, ehehehe

But in seriousness, sounds good if it was true. Some of Rare's N64 games WERE rather technically impressive, and if this drove friendly competition to improve their own games, all the better.

 

[I Stalk Alone]

Good. It drove them to be better. Nothing wrong with that.

.

 

[Prine]

Well, they still max out platforms they work on, some real wizards at that studio. So this seems likely (causing Nintendo step up visually)

 

[potam]

I'm not saying they were bad games, I'm saying that they weren't superior technically neither artistically.

Watch the Conker videos with Chris Seavor. Granted, the guy sounds kind of cocky, but listening to them talk about the stuff they were able to pull off with that game is impressive.

 

[Gartooth]

Rare carried the N64 to what little success it had almost entirely by themselves.

The N64 with no goldeneye, banjo, etc would have done worse than GameCube numbers coming off the SNES

I don't know if it would have actually translated to sales, but I agree that the N64 would be a LOT less fondly remembered if Rare never existed. We would have lost out on B-K, B-T, DKR, DK64, Conker, PD, and Goldeneye.

 

[Monty Mole]

Rare helped, for sure...but you have clouded memories here.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Nintendo_64_video_games

4 out of the Top 10 ain't bad.

Oh and how I miss those days. The top 10 PS3/360 games are probably CoD FIFA CoD FIFA GTA CoD FIFA (etc)

 

[FargoDog]

I think he's simply referring to the graphics and art direction, and while it's probably debatable, Banjo, Starfox and Conker could easily be considered the best looking games on the platform from a technical perspective. As much as I think Ocarina is possibly the greatest game of all time, the art direction has always been somewhat lacklustre outside of some of the more outre enemy designs. That said, Majora's Mask is stunningly well realised in terms of its aesthetic. What it lacks in technical might these days is made up for by such a consistency of atmosphere, of an art style that helps communicate the tone and themes of the game.

As much as I love Rare's games, Banjo and Conker had some fairly major swings in terms of art direction which meant that while they looked fantastic, there wasn't that same coherency between levels.

 

[Hasney]

I wonder why Nintendo let's Retro do some technical help (with MK7 f.e.) and Rare never got to do this... I guess old Yakuza-Yamauchi business strategy

I think a lot of it was the culture between East and West back in those days. If you look at interviews about the wars Sega Technical Institute had with Sega Japan, it was crazy. One day they were allowed to use the NiGHTS engine for Sonic Xtreme, then not the next.

EDIT: Here's a brief one: http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/artic...technical_institute_lead_designer_chris_senn/

 

[Kouriozan]

Thanks, old Rare.

 

[Mr-Joker]

Well, there WAS that supposed citation of Miyamoto shitting on DKC because it was the most groundbreaking thing on the SNES at the time

No Miyamoto came out and said that he actually liked the Donkey Kong Country series, I think that only came about because Nintendo told Miyamoto to do Yoshi Island with the same graphic as Donkey Country, to which he refused and went with the cartoon look instead.

Hell the opening intro to Yoshi Island is a little nod to that statement.

 

[Prine]

From 2 generations ago

crazy

 

[erpg]

Now that's a presumptuous thing to say, while most of Rare games were graphically very impressive in N64 they often suffer from serious frame rate problems, and no, no game from Rare came to the artistical degree to Majora's Mask, Ocarina of Time, Mario 64 IMHO.

I don't really understand why your going for with that last sentence. For all we know, we would have had deformed brown hair Link if it weren't for Rare. We don't know what happened during development that made them change Ocarina's style.

For example, it could very well be thanks to Rare that Hyrule was entirely a CG background.

 

[IntelliHeath]

I don't know if it would have actually translated to sales, but I agree that the N64 would be a LOT less fondly remembered if Rare never existed. We would have lost out on B-K, B-T, DKR, DK64, Conker, PD, and Goldeneye.

Killer Instinct Gold, Jet Gemini Force and Blast Corp.

 

[Tadale]

Rare helped, for sure...but you have clouded memories here.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Nintendo_64_video_games

Three of the top ten looks pretty good to me. And it's not just about the number sold - it's also about having some quality games in there to help the N64 with it's nearly lifecycle long drought. They put out like 10 N64 games, most of which were very good for the time, and some of which practically defined the console. It's crazy how prolific they were on a console that was otherwise under developed for.

 

[TunaLover]

Watch the Conker videos with Chris Seavor. Granted, the guy sounds kind of cocky, but listening to them talk about the stuff they were able to pull off with that game is impressive.

I think it's a thing of philosophy choices, Nintendo wouldn't allow a more graphically intense game if it affected the frame rate hence gameplay. When you weigh graphics and gameplay Nintendo did better job in balance with OoT engine.

 

[jonno394]

http://www.n-sider.com/gameview.php?gameid=82&view=dev

An interesing few comments about DKC vs Yoshis ISland, I knew I recalled hearing rumours about Nintendo being annoyed that YI wasnt as visually impressive as DKC

 

[Nibel]

Well, Rare was easily on the same level and sometimes even above Nintendo when it came to visuals - oh man, the memories

 

[TunaLover]

I don't really understand why your going for with that last sentence. For all we know, we would have had deformed brown hair Link if it weren't for Rare. We don't know what happened during development that made them change Ocarina's style.

Is that a fact?

 

[Manmademan]

Rare helped, for sure...but you have clouded memories here.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Nintendo_64_video_games

Not at all. The N64 failed completely in Japan. Almost all of its sales were US based.

The N64 only sold about 36 million units, but 8 million copies of JUST GOLDENEYE.

unlike the rest of Nintendos franchises, theres no
crossover between Mario, Zelda, etc. Those were new gamers, and goldeneye was the first viable FPS on console, opening up the gates for Turok, Doom 64, Quake 64, mission impossible, duke nukem, etc.

No goldeneye and the N64 loses the shooter audience. Now toss in diddy Kong racing, dk64, the banjo games, Conker, jet force Gemini, etc.

The droughts the n64 had were bad enough. Without rare it would have been doing sub GC numbers.

 

[Gartooth]

Killer Instinct Gold, Jet Gemini Force and Blast Corp.

Exactly!

Heck, given both Banjo-Kazooie games, Diddy Kong Racing, Donkey Kong 64, Goldeneye, and Perfect Dark were all multi-million sellers I would say they left quite an impact. Goldeneye in of itself had big appeal being one of the premier console shooters that gen.

 

[Senor Kami]

That sounds like a crock.

 

[DocSeuss]

I have a lot of choice things I'd like to say about Rare, but that's for another time. Instead, I'll simply say this: I doubt Nintendo envied Rare, and I suspect the reverse was closer to the reality.

Nintendo's never made a game as good as Rare, though.

 

[Sheroking]

It's hard to argue with Banjo Tooie, Perfect Dark and Conker's Bad Fur Day on the N64 visually.

I just wish Rare would have been more envious of Nintendo's superior control. Games like Banjo Kazooie and Jet Force Gemini were super clunky compared to Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time.

 

[erpg]

Is that a fact?

If your asking the while sentence is a fact, no, I prefaced it as such.
If you're asking if Ocarina started off with a very different look for Link, yes.

 

[XPE]

Rare carried the N64 to what little success it had almost entirely by themselves.

The N64 with no goldeneye, banjo, etc would have done worse than GameCube numbers coming off the SNES

I think that's a little unfair both produced classics for it, I see where you are coming from but the like of Zelda and Mario still help sell units as much as Goldeneye and Banjo help, it was really a combined effort.

 

[Metallix87]

Nintendo's never made a game as good as Rare, though.

I honestly hope you're joking.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Diddy Kong Racing was better then MK64. That's about it though.

 

[Zalman]

I'm pretty sure it's the other way around nowadays which is a real shame. R.I.P. Rare.

 

[Don't Laugh]

Rare's games on N64 > Nintendo's.

 

[Gartooth]

I would say that while Nintendo was pretty good, Rare was better when it came to producing visually impressive games.

But behind Nintendo is virtually every other facet.

Rare's sound quality was also much better than Nintendo's, Conker having VA is still pretty impressive. Star Fox 64 had it too, but the technical quality of the sound isn't as good.

 

[Diprosalic]

I got the feeling they thought our games were technically and artistically superior to theirs.

yeah.... no.

RARE games aged really really bad while OoT and M64 are still masterpieces.

 

[Rollo Lawson]

Good. It drove them to be better. Nothing wrong with that.

My sentiment...

 

[Metallix87]

Rare's games on N64 > Nintendo's.

Rare's games on N64 are so overrated, it's ridiculous.

 

[Data West]

Nintendo's never made a game as good as Rare, though.

 

[Manmademan]

I think that's a little unfair both produced classics for it, I see where you are coming from but the like of Zelda and Mario still help sell units as much as Goldeneye and Banjo help, it was really a combined effort.

Zelda and Mario were also on the GC. Rare wasn't. There was a 15 million unit dive between the N64 and GC, despite the GC having FAR better third party support.

Three guesses why that is.