I know Taubes references Atkins a couple of times saying Atkins was aware of the science and research showing the carbs/insulin connection, but I dont know that he endorses it.
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We arent fat because we eat too much and exercise too little
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I know Taubes references Atkins a couple of times saying Atkins was aware of the science and research showing the carbs/insulin connection, but I dont know that he endorses it.
Not really. Atkins didnt have enough fat and went away from even carb loaded veggies.
Paleoish you can have potatoes and yams everyonce in a while. Just the bulk of your meals will be veggies, fruits nuts, a fat (very important) an protein.
For me though this diet is more of a statement because humans need to get away from reliance on genetically modified food and feeding corn to their beef. Gmo corn and soy are Destroying out planet and potentially our future food supply witb continuous tweaking.
ShinNL
Member
You do realize that sentence 1 and sentence 2 kind of contradict each other right?
"1 + 1 = 2."
"1 + 1 =(is not always)= 2."
Sure people lose weight when not eating enough, the body can't make stuff out of thin air. But if I eat 9000 kcalories daily it doesn't automatically mean I turn 3 size bigger. It depends on what you eat.
Plus most people who aren't overweight but want to lose a bit of fat on their skin don't tend to aim for weight loss but rather fat loss. Cue picture of the 155lbs woman before after picture.
MikeE21286
Member
Yeah, I think it's just the general concept. Cut carbs, more protein, replace cards with fat and protein
More Fun To Compute
Member
Sure, I said that sugars should be avoided.
But if you do a google search you will be told that food cravings are something that need to be eliminated because they stop you looking good in bikini and how they relate to your daddy issues. But the real story about cravings for particular types of food is that they are often a message telling you to deal with some deficiency. If you crave chocolate it's often not because of the sugar but because of magnesium deficiency.
Oh dear.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_of_Nutrition_and_Dietetics#section_7
Let us also not forget that some groups and their official research are government funded, which in turn is greatly influenced by millions of dollars in lobbying from agriculture industry (corn, wheat and soy growers, grocers and food science associations, etc.). They use public mouthpieces to support their own businesses and profits.
Satiation is not the point, dismiss it. The question was theoretical.
What people are thinking is they can eat whatever they want. As long as it doesn't have carbs. After a squat workout, I can easily pile down 3-4 or 5 lbs of chicken wings or 2-3+ lbs of meat and eggs. At my size and weight, no way is my body going to be burning 4k - 5k or more calories per day. My activity for the day: Squats, sit at desk coding. I'd just get fat, I promise.
I'm 275 right now and you're telling me that if I eat bacon and hamburgers I can lose weight?! Don't take this the wrong way but I think I love man lol.
I agree, everyone should be skeptical. I've been reading about nutrition for long enough to know you always get something new and conflicting. Eggs are bad, no good... no just the whites, no eat the yolks too! DONT EAT FAT! No, eat fat! Fat is good! No! Only eat good fat not bad fat! Dont eat carbs! Watch out for red meat! Look out for mercury in fish!
However there are some things that seem to remain constant: Eat fresh whole foods. Dont over-do any one thing: meat, fat, carbs, whatever. Avoid sugars and sweetners like HFCS. Avoid processed, ready to eat foods in bright packages with long shelf lives and marketing crap like FAT FREE! 0 Carbs! Low Calorie!
This is my personal take on it.
Thaedolus
Gold Member
None of whom seem to refute his findings with science or evidence.
Intuitively, calories in, calories out makes sense as long as you buy into the idea our bodies are machines or vehicles. With a car, if you burn 20 gallons of gas it'll need to be replaced with 20 gallons more. Let's say you put 20 gallons in and you've only burned 10. That 10 gallons has to go somewhere, right?
Well if your car has an infinite size reserve tank and a pump to get the extra fuel into it, then you can keep storing that extra fuel. But let's say you change fuel, and it's incompatible with that pump. Now your car can't store any excess fuel. Instead it has to flush it out. The reserve tank can only give fuel instead of store it now.
That's essentially how our bodies work. Insulin is the pump. Your body needs it to store fuel in your fat cells. If you cut off the supply of insulin, you cut off your mechanism to store fat. Insulin is secreted to regulate blood sugar, which is a result of consuming sugar and carbohydrates. The more you consume, the more insulin is secreted, the faster that pump works. The more insulin is secreted, the more insulin resistant your body becomes, meaning the pump starts working even harder.
Cut off the carbs, cut off the pump, lose weight. I can anecdotally say it works, and in fact made my cholesterol levels fantastic. It's not easy to stick to, however, as is evidenced by how fat everyone around us seems to be.
You can lose weight eating anything. One professor lost like 30 lbs or something eating mostly Twinkies and other junk food.
Thaedolus
Gold Member
Depends. If you like burgers without buns and very little ketchup, then sure. I eat bacon every day when I'm doing low carbs. Just make sure you eat your broccoli, spinach, etc. too
Ace Harding
Member
Very anecdotal, but I knew a guy in college who was diabetic and had insulin regulated via injections. He had a little sensor he had to wear all the time that would beep when he needed to shoot some more insulin. I don't know if theoretically he should have been fat but this guy ate a TON and did not try to keep really healthy (burgers, burritos, pizza were regular parts of his diet) and he was like 200 pounds of pure muscle. People thought he did 'roids but he never did. I wonder if the diabetes/insulin regulation had something to do with it.
He did also work out like 5 days a week, but I would have trouble believing he burned more calories than he ate (which was a lot).
Anyway, I'm very interested in what this guy has to say. I talked to a doctor about it and he said it all makes sense based on what we know about how human bodies work. It doesn't seem like anyone who refutes these claims counters with any real science. I don't mean dubious studies, I mean biochemistry. WHY would this be bad or not work, based on everything we know?
He did also work out like 5 days a week, but I would have trouble believing he burned more calories than he ate (which was a lot).
Anyway, I'm very interested in what this guy has to say. I talked to a doctor about it and he said it all makes sense based on what we know about how human bodies work. It doesn't seem like anyone who refutes these claims counters with any real science. I don't mean dubious studies, I mean biochemistry. WHY would this be bad or not work, based on everything we know?
It's true. Insulin is the biggest growth hormone in your body. There's diets based around spiking your insulin on purpose with the dirtiest food you can find to get jacked.
I never exercise (like running and weight-lifting etc; I do some isometric stuff so I don't get completely stiff from work), can eat anything (and enjoy it too; there are many things with carb that just taste good). I'm also pretty skinny.
Now, an honest question: why should I be interested in making any changes? What would the benefits be, that outweigh the sacrifices (can it help me with my on and off backpains as well a sore wrist? because that is basically the only thing I can really complain about)
Now, an honest question: why should I be interested in making any changes? What would the benefits be, that outweigh the sacrifices (can it help me with my on and off backpains as well a sore wrist? because that is basically the only thing I can really complain about)
Serious. I was 310 of pure fat. Now I'm 230 very healthy, normal, but not low body fat levels and 180 lb of that is lean.
Got there by eating 150-170 g fat, 230-250g protein, 20g or less non fiber carbs and heavy compound lifting.
Calories DO matter though so I counted them but low fat high carbs wouldn't have me looking as good as I do now at the same weight. I'm 100% sure of it.
You could try it. Carbs are inflammatory. Fat is anti inflammatory. Alot of my joint issues went away.
I somewhat do this right now since I lost most of my fat. I eat tons of carbs after I workout. ice cream, pop tarts, veggies of course, tons of sweet potatoes, rice, and brown potatoes
Yup that's basically what I follow along with intermittent fasting.
freenudemacusers
Member
i read that as car bareback loading and got a bit excited
Jean Valjean
Member
Well, the Atkins "plan" is composed of 4 phases, with the carb ingestion increasing during each phase.
From what I've seen, the paleo diet is like Atkins phase 2 or 3, when nuts, seeds and other carbs are allowed in greater quantity.
I started working with a new client today and this thread immediately came to mind. They are a family of four that collectively weigh over one thousand pounds. I was told to go through the cabinets to find food to make for lunch and found an entire cabinet full of hostess products. They also have three 4 packs of two liter bottles of Mountain Dew. This thread is a lie.
Nice, I've seen some good gains from backloading. I get a ketosis headache every once in awhile tho
You're still super young. People are thin around that age, once you get past 26 your body will start storing fat in your gut and ass. Look at the general composition of most 30 year old males.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
hmm so arent any grains ok? we need fiber right? i like my oatmeal!
If you believe Taubes, and if I understand him correctly, the more sugar and carbs (for lack of a better word) you eat and the more insulin you produce as a result, the more your cells become resistant to it. So it will get worse over time.
I would also say you could immediately benefit, again if Taubes and all the Paleo people and others are right, by getting rid of sugars, refined grains etc because you would see a shift in energy level and general health. I have found eating well and getting some activity cures all kinds of little ailments.
So basically, if you want to try it, try and see what happens.
Damn. That's pretty sad.
The worst part is that they have healthy options in the fridge and cabinets but they also horrible options like those that are mentioned above. The healthy options are completely full and look like they haven't even been touched
I dont think you're really paying attention to whats being said.
Thaedolus
Gold Member
Wait what? They eat and drink a fuckton of sugar and are obese. Am I missing where this contradicts the thread or some sarcasm?
Sarcasm due to the thread title. I know what the actual thread is about.
Stories like that used to make me mad, now I find it a pity. If you're that out of it, pretty much anything you do will give a positive effect. I mean going from a Hostess diet to even something vaguely reasonable would be a step forward. Even Nutrisystem, which I personally think looks horrible but I've never tried it, would be an improvement.
I think it's families like that where you say "just eat less food and better food and exercise!" and that would absolutely work.
The real tricky situation might be the guy eating whole grain cereals, whole wheat bread and pasta, fruit juices, rice and mashed potatoes with his grilled chicken, lean cuisine for lunch, maybe the occasional sweets, allows himself a few cups of coffee a day with sugar... thinking he's doing ok but wonders why the belly is expanding.
Prophecy650
Member
For me I just eat what ever I want. But make sure I go to they gym. I was 210lbs now I am 150lbs no diet. Just running
triplestation
Member
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Good for them. I'm inherently distrusting of authoritative organizations that may or may not be influenced by corporate interests.
The American Dietetic Association has received millions in funding from corporations like General Mills, Coca Cola and PepsiCo.
The Food Standards Agency is a government body subject to the whims of powerful lobbies that control the politicians.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I don't believe this is true. Have you done it before?
I imagine you'd feel full to the point of having stomach pains after the 2 lbs mark or so.
I think simply eating until you're not hungry, instead of until you're FULL would do a lot more to curb obesity than cutting grains. That's how the entirety of Asia manages to eat all of the carbs we're ballyhooing about here and not get fat.
That being said. I only eat bread / pasta / wheat once or twice a week. I do, however eat oats and quinoa nearly every day. Is that supposedly bad, too?
That being said. I only eat bread / pasta / wheat once or twice a week. I do, however eat oats and quinoa nearly every day. Is that supposedly bad, too?
Bad is a relative term. In my view if eating quinoa and oats are your biggest problem you're doing ok. That said, yes the books I'm reading argue any grains are "bad" in that they have gluten in them, trigger insulin production, spike blood sugar, cause inflammation, aren't easily digestible by humans since they are a relatively recent addition to our diet. That kind of thing.
I dont know that this is true or not at this point.
MikeE21286
Member
What I've been eating for the better part of 4 years now has been the bread from these guys.
http://www.foodforlife.com/products?tid_1=All&tid=All
Thoughts?
They are low glycemic, so I've always assumed they're good for you. I like to think I'm a pretty healthy guy overall, so I try to watch out for these things when/where I can.
http://www.foodforlife.com/products?tid_1=All&tid=All
Thoughts?
They are low glycemic, so I've always assumed they're good for you. I like to think I'm a pretty healthy guy overall, so I try to watch out for these things when/where I can.
Super late but I say yes. I try to avoid dairy a lot but I don't turn away cheese and cottage cheese (plain as possible) as good sources of protein but I still avoid straight milk, cream, etc. I replace milk with unsweetened almond milk (it's actually alkaline, most people have overly acidic diets) or unsweetened coconut or unsweetened hemp milk. All very good if you're trying to follow a paleo style diet and seeing how your body might run if you cut out all the no-no's for a bit.
Now, mind you, I cut out milk for more than just "lose weight" reasons. I'm not alergic but dairy can be hidden away in more foods than people think, just like gluten and sugars. It's part of the "avoiding processed foods". You'd be surprised how often some form of milk powder or "modified milk ingredients" slip into many foods. It's a lot of label reading, knowing what you're reading and knowing that there are a bajillion new names for sugar, gluten, milk and their processed derivitives. Saying goodbye to anything processed and that you do not basically make yourself with simple ingredients can be a hard habit for some to get into but it makes a world of a difference when you do.
I will not demonize dairly but I don't think large amounts of it is good for anyone's diet. It has milk sugars and is acidic to a point. Some people have zero issues with it but I know avoiding it has helped my digestion and weight.
But here is a better lecture on the subject from the same guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDneyrETR2o
Even has pretty slides and some humour!
Oh, just so it's said... I can't help but see and hear Owen Wilson. He even has very similar inflections on certain words and the way he pauses and draws out a sound...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDneyrETR2o
Even has pretty slides and some humour!
Oh, just so it's said... I can't help but see and hear Owen Wilson. He even has very similar inflections on certain words and the way he pauses and draws out a sound...
triplestation
Member
I've read Pollan's "In Defense Of Food" and it was very good. Again he's someone who advocates whole, natural, unprocessed, unrefined food. That's one of my universal constants in nutrition. It's hard to find people who would argue with that. Some might say it's unnecessary and "organic" labels is yet another marketing gimmick, but nobody has a problem with it eating fresh meats and veggies.
I'm going to try and update the OP later tonight with a sample meal menu and a few recipes. Although I'm really thinking of doing another post with Paleo/Primal specific meals and what I plan to eat. Maybe chart my own food with pictures and recipes.
I'm going to try and update the OP later tonight with a sample meal menu and a few recipes. Although I'm really thinking of doing another post with Paleo/Primal specific meals and what I plan to eat. Maybe chart my own food with pictures and recipes.
You want soluble fiber and the best source for that is green ruffage - like spinach. Fruit, legumes (and oats) also work
Insoluble fiber (what wheat is) just makes you crap more
MikeE21286
Member
edit: double post
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