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We arent fat because we eat too much and exercise too little

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I've read Pollan's "In Defense Of Food" and it was very good. Again he's someone who advocates whole, natural, unprocessed, unrefined food. That's one of my universal constants in nutrition. It's hard to find people who would argue with that. Some might say it's unnecessary and "organic" labels is yet another marketing gimmick, but nobody has a problem with it eating fresh meats and veggies.

I'm going to try and update the OP later tonight with a sample meal menu and a few recipes. Although I'm really thinking of doing another post with Paleo/Primal specific meals and what I plan to eat. Maybe chart my own food with pictures and recipes.

he says we must be eating a mostly plants/grains diet, and as little meat as possible which is the way most fit people around the world eat anyway.. particularly the eastern world

stuff your grandma would recognize as food is good, and rice/bread/pasta qualifies as that

americans consume the most meat in the world iirc and abuse sugar

i think paleo/low carb nuts eat a load of fat and meat (which imo is fucking repulsive)
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
he says we must be eating a mostly plants/grains diet, and as little meat as possible which is the way most fit people around the world eat anyway.. particularly the eastern world

stuff your grandma would recognize as food is good, and rice/bread/pasta qualifies as that

americans consume the most meat in the world iirc and abuse sugar

i think paleo/low carb nuts eat a load of fat and meat (which imo is fucking repulsive)

I don't see why you feel the need to be so combative by calling people "nuts" and calling fat and meat "fucking repulsive."

I'd also like some evidence that most of the fit people in the world barely eat any meat.
 

Jaffaboy

Member
I've always thought the emphasis on calories in dieting was a little off, it's always just seemed like an easy way to market food as good for you when it has less calories.
 

Dash27

Member
he says we must be eating a mostly plants/grains diet, and as little meat as possible which is the way most fit people around the world eat anyway.. particularly the eastern world

stuff your grandma would recognize as food is good, and rice/bread/pasta qualifies as that

americans consume the most meat in the world iirc and abuse sugar

i think paleo/low carb nuts eat a load of fat and meat (which imo is fucking repulsive)

Yes he seems to be down on meat from what I have read but I like him in spite of that. In Defense of Food the tag line was "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants"

That's all well and good, and I respect people who choose to eat that way but I am absolutely a carnivore. I frankly cant see how a full grown person can achieve any real level of strength or stamina on a plant based diet. Soy is not something I'd eat in any case, but Paleo and other diets have it on the "do not eat list" so that works out well for me. I think a lot of fat and meat sounds great. Chicken, beef, bison, turkey, pork, fish, seafood. Avocado, nuts, seeds, oils, animal fat. All very healthy sounding from my POV, but to each his own.

Grandma would absolutely recognize bread and pasta. She'd also know bread and pasta are fattening.
 

blackflag

Member
I don't believe this is true. Have you done it before?

I imagine you'd feel full to the point of having stomach pains after the 2 lbs mark or so.

I eat 3k cals worth of food within 4 hours. Could easily do it in less but I space it out on purpose so I have no doubt that people can easily do this. Know I could easily smash that much if I ate for more than 4 hours per day.
 

VALIS

Member
I think simply eating until you're not hungry, instead of until you're FULL would do a lot more to curb obesity than cutting grains. That's how the entirety of Asia manages to eat all of the carbs we're ballyhooing about here and not get fat.

I believe this is far closer to the truth than any of these diets which target specific components and food groups. You can point to all sorts of cultures around the world where they eat things considered suicide on Atkins/Paleo diets yet they're thin and healthy on average (Asia, India, Mediterranean, etc.)

I'd definitely agree with cutting down/out sugars and processed foods. But otherwise I think the big key to weight loss is eating less, period.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
I've read Pollan's "In Defense Of Food" and it was very good. Again he's someone who advocates whole, natural, unprocessed, unrefined food. That's one of my universal constants in nutrition. It's hard to find people who would argue with that. Some might say it's unnecessary and "organic" labels is yet another marketing gimmick, but nobody has a problem with it eating fresh meats and veggies.

I'm going to try and update the OP later tonight with a sample meal menu and a few recipes. Although I'm really thinking of doing another post with Paleo/Primal specific meals and what I plan to eat. Maybe chart my own food with pictures and recipes.

There are nutty people that think eating meat will kill you.

americans consume the most meat in the world iirc and abuse sugar

i think paleo/low carb nuts eat a load of fat and meat (which imo is fucking repulsive)

I spoke too soon. I recommend that you lookup consumption of animal based foods in European nations and compare it to the United states. Most consume significantly more whole milk and cheese than the United States, several more butter and lard, and a few eat more total calories from animal products (see France, Iceland, Finland, Norway, Austria, Portugal, Germany, Ireland). And yet, several European countries are far healthier than the United States.

And not sure how you're generalizing all of Asia like that. Some Chinese provinces eat significant amounts of meat, others less.

Please don't say China Study, because you might as well as reference the Bible.
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
I eat 3k cals worth of food within 4 hours. Could easily do it in less but I space it out on purpose so I have no doubt that people can easily do this. Know I could easily smash that much if I ate for more than 4 hours per day.

I would be mystified to see someone eat over three pounds of steak, for example, in one sitting. It would take about that much in fatty porterhouse steak to get 3k calories.
 

iddqd

Member
I'm trying the "carb backloading" thing but holy hell... I'm already woozy and it's only one day.
These next days are going to be tough.
 
Low carb diets make me feel crummy and tired, like I never have any energy.

High carb diets give me sugar crashes, even if I mostly eat whole grains and avoid sugar.

What do, gaf.

(That being said, I'm in great shape. I just wish I could figure out what the hell I should eat so that I have more energy and don't feel like crap all the time. And so that I can get under 10% body fat.)
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Same. Been eating healthier since summer and working every other day rather than once a week. Lost 20 pounds so far, another 10 pounds and I'm good.

Another 10 pounds and you're good, you say, but are you going to continue your current lifestyle for the rest of your life to ensure that you don't just put the weight back on?
 

IceCold

Member
Low carb diets make me feel crummy and tired, like I never have any energy.

High carb diets give me sugar crashes, even if I mostly eat whole grains and avoid sugar.

What do, gaf.

(That being said, I'm in great shape. I just wish I could figure out what the hell I should eat so that I have more energy and don't feel like crap all the time. And so that I can get under 10% body fat.)

Eat more fat.
 

grumble

Member
Low carb diets make me feel crummy and tired, like I never have any energy.

High carb diets give me sugar crashes, even if I mostly eat whole grains and avoid sugar.

What do, gaf.

(That being said, I'm in great shape. I just wish I could figure out what the hell I should eat so that I have more energy and don't feel like crap all the time. And so that I can get under 10% body fat.)

Lots of protein. Eat a moderate amount of carbs, a moderate amount of fat, and lots of green veggies. Also sleep more. If you're in 'great shape', then I'm sure you're very active, which means you needs the access to energy, the protein, the vitamins and the rest.

To get under 10% BF you'll be very lean. Way into six-pack territory. Be prepared for some hormonal changes as things dip below 10%, where you might feel weak and sluggish and things aren't happening in the gym.
 

Piecake

Member
Low carb diets make me feel crummy and tired, like I never have any energy.

High carb diets give me sugar crashes, even if I mostly eat whole grains and avoid sugar.

What do, gaf.

(That being said, I'm in great shape. I just wish I could figure out what the hell I should eat so that I have more energy and don't feel like crap all the time. And so that I can get under 10% body fat.)

eat more fat. Also, you might be getting carb flu. You gotta power through that. Once you do, youll wonder why the fuck you ever ate grains

Dear Mark,

I just want to know if anyone who has been Primal for some time had any trouble with cognition in the first few weeks. I can hardly think straight, especially after eating, and I am also low on energy. Will this pass??? Besides that, my body feels great!”

Thanks to Jessica for her question in response to Matt Garland’s excellent guest post last week. It’s a common subject of emails I receive.


First off, I should mention that some folks experience the low carb flu, and others don’t. Overall, those who have been lower carb for some time seem to have fewer problems with the transition taking their carb intake down a notch. As rational as it sounds, this trend still isn’t a hard and fast rule. I know a number of Primal adherents who fit this profile and then went on to experience the symptoms Jessica describes. Others I know went from sky high sugars to low carb cold turkey and felt great from day one. Go figure. It might be due to the “sliding range of genetic variations” I’ll be discussing in an upcoming post.

Although the low carb flu isn’t universal, that doesn’t mean it’s abnormal. For many people, it takes about two to three weeks to move beyond the temporary fog and fatigue. Studies following the physical performance of low carbers showed that initial disadvantages were erased after this window of time. If your body is used to employing easy glucose carbs and now must create glucose from fats and protein (a slightly more complex but entirely natural mode of operation), it can take some time to get up to speed. Rest assured that our bodies can and are doing the job. It simply takes time to work efficiently. The transition actually shifts metabolic related gene expression, increasing fat oxidation pathways and decreasing fat storage pathways. (That’s nothing to shake a stick at!) Within a few weeks, the body should be fairly efficient at converting protein and fat for the liver’s glycogen stores, which provide all the glucose we need for the brain, red blood cells, muscles, etc. under regular circumstances.
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
I would do that. I'd go to town on bacon and butter and down straight olive oil.

I'd steel feel very lethargic.

try different kinds of fats, fish oil, olive oil, and coconut oil is one thing. Bacon, I'd imagine would cause the Itis. Also, don't over indulge, get no more than 30% of your daily calories from fats. Play with your macros a bit, you can try one of those online calorie trackers (like myfitnesspal)for a bit to get a feel of what you should be consuming and then tweak it to your liking.

With carbs, try stuff like sweet potatoes, oats/complex carbs and see how you're feeling. It may be processed shit that makes you feel crummy.
 

blackflag

Member
Even though I am not on it currently, being in ketosis was the best I ever felt in my life. So much energy and happiness.
 

Branduil

Member
ih5zRs2vcQOFk.PNG
 
eat more fat. Also, you might be getting carb flu. You gotta power through that. Once you do, youll wonder why the fuck you ever ate grains

Yeah, I'd feel pretty terrible for the first 2-3 days after starting low-carb (with terrible night sweats that'd make my sheets smell foul plus all the grogginess), but I'd be able to power through it, getting to a point where I actually felt relatively good and would get used to eating few carbs, and would actually not want carbs. I'd just still be generally tired. I'd try and up my fat intake to try and boost my energy levels, but it felt like it would just weigh me down more often than not.

My favorite source of fat was straight up dairy cream. Loved that stuff.

I've been wanting to give it another go, but I fear the transition process given my current job (a stock job that has me lifting fairly heavy boxes for 8-10 hours a day) requires a lot out of me.

Thanks for the tips guys.
 

Piecake

Member
Yeah, I'd feel pretty terrible for the first 2-3 days after starting low-carb (with terrible night sweats that'd make my sheets smell foul plus all the grogginess), but I'd be able to power through it, getting to a point where I actually felt relatively good and would get used to eating few carbs, and would actually not want carbs. I'd just still be generally tired. I'd try and up my fat intake to try and boost my energy levels, but it felt like it would just weigh me down more often than not.

My favorite source of fat was straight up dairy cream. Loved that stuff.

I've been wanting to give it another go, but I fear the transition process given my current job (a stock job that has me lifting fairly heavy boxes for 8-10 hours a day) requires a lot out of me.

Thanks for the tips guys.

Personally, I think carbs weigh me down and make me feel a hell of a lot more bloated/lethargic a hell of a lot more than fat/protein. Perhaps i have some gluten intolerance, but i can eat a shit load of meat and veggies and feel fine, but grain? Id feel like a bloated sack of crap

You can always gradually reduce your carbs/grain over a period of months. I doubt you'd get hit with a carb flu that way
 
I think the most important thing I picked up from this thread is that Refined Sugar is the FUCKING DEVIL

Meh, glucose is just pure fuel that your blood & every cell can take in without any digestion/modification etc.. Most efficient way to get your ATP aka energy, in particular when you want to fuel your fast twitch muscles and your brain.

2Lu63.png

dat ATP gain per molecule!

Nature and your body know this, that's why sugar tastes sweet in the first place.
All is good :) (for thin people)

Like always, everything in moderation. If you eat too much you well get fat and have to try the diet of the month to get rid of it (see this thread). It's the most concentrated energy source, followed by carbs which often is just complex forms of glucose anyway. Especially compared to protein which has to be digested&modified quite a bit in specialized cells to turn into glucose. So of course too much will lead your body to store that easy surplus energy.
 

Piecake

Member
Meh, glucose is just pure fuel that your blood & every cell can take in without any digestion/modification etc.. Most efficient way to get your ATP aka energy, in particular when you want to fuel your fast twitch muscles and your brain.

2Lu63.png

dat ATP gain per molecule!

Nature and your body know this, that's why sugar tastes sweet in the first place.
All is good :) (for thin people)

Like always, everything in moderation. If you eat too much you well get fat and have to try the diet of the month to get rid of it (see this thread). It's the most concentrated energy source, followed by carbs which often is just complex forms of glucose anyway. Especially compared to protein which has to be digested&modified quite a bit in specialized cells to turn into glucose. So of course too much will lead your body to store that easy surplus energy.

Nature also made it really fucking hard to get. Well, it used to be hard to get at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugarcane

Dat sugar

I always hear this moderation by advocates of a balanced approach, but what is moderation to you? Its just such a relative concept to me that I think it could have a pretty significant different meaning to different people.
 
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Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Nature also made it really fucking hard to get. Well, it used to be hard to get at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugarcane

Dat sugar

I always hear this moderation by advocates of a balanced approach, but what is moderation to you? Its just such a relative concept to me that I think it could have a pretty significant different meaning to different people.

It's just bullshit that people use to say, "there's no problem, and if there were one, it's with the individual's willpower."
 

ZoddGutts

Member
Another 10 pounds and you're good, you say, but are you going to continue your current lifestyle for the rest of your life to ensure that you don't just put the weight back on?

Yup. Ever since doing this haven't had any urges to eat junk food/fast food like I used to. Been able to discipline myself to eating healthier foods. Now I look at junk/fast food with disgust lol. My body feels so much better right now.
 
It really doesnt. You have ton run a hell of a lot to burn off one can of coke. Lifting and running is good for your health, but if your plan is to lose weight through exercise, well, good luck

What? I started running about a month ago. Didn't really change my diet and I've lost around 12 pounds. And I wasn't that heavy to begin with. I run three times a week and burn about 900 calories per session. You're really saying that cardio doesn't make you lose weight?
 

Piecake

Member
What? I started running about a month ago. Didn't really change my diet and I've lost around 12 pounds. And I wasn't that heavy to begin with. I run three times a week and burn about 900 calories per session. You're really saying that cardio doesn't make you lose weight?

I'm saying that diet is far more effective
 
What? I started running about a month ago. Didn't really change my diet and I've lost around 12 pounds. And I wasn't that heavy to begin with. I run three times a week and burn about 900 calories per session. You're really saying that cardio doesn't make you lose weight?

how far are you running? 900 calories is a shit load to burn
 

zchen

Member
bread and rice were easy to quit for me. But potato chips, chex mix, pita chips, and pizza are hard to give up.

For pizza I have successfully got most of the craving out by substituting with cauliflower pizza, but chips.....ugh. I just bought 5 bags of chex mix cause they were $1 a bag on sale
 
I'm saying that diet is far more effective

Ah okay, yeah my mistake then. I thought you meant it didn't help at all.

how far are you running? 900 calories is a shit load to burn

10 minutes running as a warmup. Then some light exercise. Then I run for about 45 to 50 minutes. At around 10 km/h which comes to about 7-7.5 km in distance. This is after some buildup of course. I started at a lower speed and about 20 minutes when I got started. But yeah, doing this three times a week has really paid off.
 

DietRob

i've been begging for over 5 years.
I never really used recipes per say. Just grilled/pan fried steak, grilled/pan fried chicken, pork, eggs, steamed broccoli, sauté spinach, shots of heavy cream, olive oil, coconut oil, cheese, protein powder, almonds, almond milk.Lol it was the easiest way.

This is the only recipe I used and I substituted ground beef and pepperoni for the buffalo meat.

http://sinorslim.com/meats/bacon-and-bison-low-carb-pizza-recipe/

I will start today. My plan for the coming weeks and after:
- eating healthy.
- Little to no sugar and carbs
- eating only fresh food,
- getting enough sleep
- no more alcohol during week days
- going to the gym twice a week and doing another sport at least once a week.

Let's see what kind of difference this makes. Right now i'm eating pretty healthy in general, but too much sugar and carbs and waaay too much potato chips and alcohol. I'm tired because i work too much and sleep only 6 hours a night. Sometimes less. And this for as long as i remember.

Let's do this shit gaf

Here are the easy recipes I know, salt and pepper to your taste (and of course you can tweak it as you want, only the bolded ingredients are necessary):

Quiche
Ingredients: Eggs, cottage cheese, any ground meat, any non-root veggies.
Mix 2-3 eggs with 3 spoons of cotton cheese. Cook some meat and veggies in a pan and add it to the mixture. Pop the whole thing in a oven (200 C or 400 F) for about 10-15 minutes (preheat it before you start).

Hamburger (without the burger)
Ingredients: Any ground meat, lettuce, pork rind.
If you have some (can be found as snacks in the meat section in the supermarket), crush some pork rind and mix it with your meat to bind it. Form the meat into a patty, fry it in a pan. Wrap it in a big leaf of lettuce and you're allowed to use mayo, but no ketchup.

Pizza (credits to the person with the duck avatar who shared this once on GAF)
Ingredients: Eggs, shredded cheese, tomato puree, any ground meat, any non-root veggies.
Mix 2 eggs with some water and shredded cheese. Fry it in a pan (should end up as a thin pancake-like base). Put it on a plate, spread some tomato puree on it and top it with some meat and veggies. I don't recommend any form of salami because then you have too much salt from the cheese + salami. Top it off with some more shredded cheese and pop it into the oven.

Spaghetti
Ingredients: Shirataki noodles, any brand spaghetti sauce with low amount of carbs, any ground meat, veggies, shredded cheese.
You can get shirataki noodles from online stores in good quantities. Rinse the shirataki noodles before using it to remove the strange smell (no more there after rinsing it). The noodles don't really require cooking, so just pop it boiling water for 2 minutes while you prepare the spaghetti sauce. I recommend adding a lot of veggies and meat to the sauce because the shirataki noodles are pretty flavorless. Top it with cheese if you want.

Yoghurt dessert
Ingredients: Greek yoghurt, dark chocolate (higher % is better).
Get a bowl that can be heat up. Drop like 2 cubes of chocolate and hover that bowl on warm water (I usually do it from the tap) and move the cubes a bit with a spoon to melt it. Spoon in some Greek yoghurt and.. eat it with the same spoon :D

Filled Bell Peppers
Ingredients: Bell peppers, any ground meat, pork rind.
If you have some (can be found as snacks in the meat section in the supermarket), crush some pork rind and mix it with your meat to bind it. Cut the bell peppers into half, remove the seeds, fill the bell peppers with the mixture and fry it in a pan, meat-side down. Use plenty of your favorite spices and also salt generously. Once the meat is done, you can pop it into the oven for a few minutes to make the bell peppers becomes nice and soft (don't burn the skin though).

I don't cook a lot though, I'm generally fine with a fast omelet, or eating a whole plate of just broccoli or cauliflower. And I don't really have recipes for fish and steaks, since I just cook it with salt and pepper and some spices and I can eat it as is (nothing special to do with that).

I can try and find you something. I know for a fact one of my books home has multiple 30 day programs, it's just a matter of if I can find anything online to show you. I believe she shows breakfast, lunch and dinner with recipes included in the book.

Here's a good general recipe site though, you can filter for Paleo (which would be low carb), vegetarian, vegan and gluten free.

http://punchfork.com/paleo


Thanks for the advice everyone. Posting in it's entirety for the new page in case anyone else is looking for a lifestyle change.

I'm too weak to start this until after the holidays. I don't like making 'new years resolutions' so I'm not going to think of this as that. If I'm brave enough I'll take a pic of my gut before ending carbs and then a month after not consuming carbs.
 

Gustav

Banned
I can't eat anything. Even carrots are bad for you. Not that I eat carrots anyway... still, this shit is insane.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
10 minutes running as a warmup. Then some light exercise. Then I run for about 45 to 50 minutes. At around 10 km/h which comes to about 7-7.5 km in distance. This is after some buildup of course. I started at a lower speed and about 20 minutes when I got started. But yeah, doing this three times a week has really paid off.
Do you really enjoy running?

Cuz you could acheive the same amount of weight loss by cutting those sessions in half and just managing your diet more.
 

JB1981

Member
I think Taubes has done some good research on diet/nutrition but he is completely outside of his wheelhouse when it comes to exercise.

People will indeed "lose weight" by getting themselves on a good training program. Taubes is a scientific journalist, not a Scientist or an MD and has not published any research of his own. I respect the work he has done but I think he has taken this Insulin Hypothesis and kind of ran with it.
 
It's just bullshit that people use to say, "there's no problem, and if there were one, it's with the individual's willpower."
Wut? Like Fiction mentioned earlier about eating until you get full, portion size matters. Eat small meals, eat often is what I would say moderation is.
 

Krowley

Member
Convenience can be an important consideration when trying to follow this diet. I've noticed a lot of people seem to be avoiding processed foods when they go low carb, and that's probably for the best, but it forces you to do a hell of a lot of cooking, and it can be really expensive. As it is, I already have to cook quite a bit since I'm the only person in the house eating this way.

I eat lots of low carb canned vegetables, hot dogs, spam, V8 juice and a lot of other stuff that probably isn't ideal, but it hasn't hampered my weight loss to any noticeable degree. As long as I keep my overall daily grams of carbs low enough (sub 80 or sub 50 when I'm being really strict), I can even eat really questionable things like white bread or pringles chips in moderation. I'll make an open faced sandwich, or grab 10 or 15 pringles, and that will be my carb intake for that meal. I keep little styrofoam cups that are exactly 8 oz, and I use them to measure out my V8 juice so I get 10 grams of carbs for a meal. It's a hell of a lot quicker than even microwaving something, there are lots of vitamins in the stuff, (along with preservatives and other crap) and I have a very precise measurement of the carbs I'm getting.

Being willing to eat a little bit of trash food helps in trying to do low-carb on the cheap, and it makes things a lot easier. It's not something I do all the time, but there are times when an intense focus on eating whole, unprocessed foods would have made the diet too difficult for me to follow, and I probably would've quit. With a big dietary change I think you have to find a way to make peace with it so it can fit easily into your life, and being super-strict can really wear you out after a while. It's better to bend than break.
 
I lived on a diet of bagels, pizza, beer, and ice cream for a year.

Got a health check up, my doctor wondered what my diet was because it was fantastic.

I laughed, because I was worried I had diabetes or something.

Exercise is a wonderful thing, my friends.
 
Do you really enjoy running?

Cuz you could acheive the same amount of weight loss by cutting those sessions in half and just managing your diet more.

I do enjoy it. Hate every other kind of cardio though.
I also watch my diet during the week. I only really eat somewhat unhealthier food in the weekend.
 
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