rofif
Can’t Git Gud
On paper. In reality the black levels are ruined by va gamma shift and gamma va cone.
Everything is worse to.
There is nothing va does better in the end
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Everything is worse to.
There is nothing va does better in the end
kapshin
Member
Story of my life.
OverHeat
« generous god »
I have 3 4K LG OLED at home. Sure on my 65´ CX 4K look awesome but to me I rather use my 3090 to pump more frame on my 1440p 240hz monitor.
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StateofMajora
Banned
Are you trolling again? Ips is garbage!
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
I don't game on PC monitor but If I did I would want 3200 x 1800 resolution minimum. The size would have to be at least 32".
I Master l
Banned
TAA look absolutely horrendous at 1440p but it is tolerable at 4K
CaptainSlayAHo
Banned
I'm sure it's been mentioned, but you're sitting right in front of a monitor.
Try playing on a 65-77 inch oled in a normal room, and tell me how 1440p is the same as 4k. Higher resolution makes a dramatic difference the further you move back and the larger the screen is
Try playing on a 65-77 inch oled in a normal room, and tell me how 1440p is the same as 4k. Higher resolution makes a dramatic difference the further you move back and the larger the screen is
OverHeat
« generous god »
Look up at what I wrote.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I'm not a PC gamer but I think we should specify if we're on a monitor or TV when discussing resolution. The reason being that usually when I see someone saying that 1440p looks 'amazing they are PC gamers on a good monitor that's much smaller than a good 4k tv.
I'm sure 1440p does look amazing on a monitor but it really doesn't on a 4k tv. There's good reason why too. Not only is 1440 sub native for that TV (half!) so no matter what the image is still being stretched but then you've got 55/65/75 inch tvs that it has to get stretched for.
1440p doesn't look amazing on my 55 inch oled. It just looks decent to 'goot enough'. Then again I am someone who notices these differences and I put a lot of importance on image quality. I'm the type of guy who switches back and forth between fidelity and performance modes just to see the differences, and I'm always a little disappointed by the softness and loss of some of the fine detail that comes with 1440p.
We were stuck at 1080p and lower resolutions for so long that when 4k tvs came out 1440p was still considered a big improvement but now 4k has been a part of our lives for a long time to the point where it's universally accepted that 1080p looks bad on a 4k tv. So why should 1440p be anything other than average in 2022. Uncharted 4 remaster/gta 5 remasters to me are extremely disappointing. You telling me Naughty Dog and Rockstar couldn't get those working at something better than 1440p/60? Especially GTA being a 360 game I was shocked that was the best they could do after two generations of more powerful hardware.
It's mostly down to softness and a loss of detail.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I have an older Oled model but the reason 1080p looks good to you is undoubtedly due to your eyesight
Perceptually to me, 1080p to 1440p is much sharper and 1080p looks blurry or jaggy. I'd never go back to 1080p. Whereas 1440p to 4k is only a bit sharper (maybe perceptually 10% sharper) but really not that much. Both look sharp and FPS matters much more in terms of overall clarity.
I'd pick 1440p 144hz over 4k 60hz every time. Maybe my eyes are going but 4k does not look that much better than 1440p because both look very sharp. But 1440p looks worlds better than 1080p because 1080p looks jaggy and/or blurry. Resolution like FPS has huge diminishing returns.
I think PPI is the biggest factor. 1080 with a big PPI looks better than 4k with a low PPI.
I'd pick 1440p 144hz over 4k 60hz every time. Maybe my eyes are going but 4k does not look that much better than 1440p because both look very sharp. But 1440p looks worlds better than 1080p because 1080p looks jaggy and/or blurry. Resolution like FPS has huge diminishing returns.
I think PPI is the biggest factor. 1080 with a big PPI looks better than 4k with a low PPI.
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I have a not cheap 144 hertz ultra wide 34" LG and an LG c1 OLED. The vibrancy on the OLED colors is just exponentially better. I will not play any games that can be played with a controller on the monitor. It's just plain ugly in comparison, and a much bigger upgrade than 1440p to 2160p or 60 hz to 144 hertz.
CaptainSlayAHo
Banned
Panel quality is certainly king, I think for the foreseeable future, that's going to be the improvement for a good while in viewing experience, barring hdr or even dolby vision standards becoming more ubiquitous
I'm sure they'll make a run at 8k, but I think it will last as long as 3d home sets lol
Griffon
Member
Yup, 720p on the steam deck looks perfect.
I work as a 3d artist - our software is basically a game engine, and so many people upgrade to a 4k monitor without considering how it impacts performance at all. Then they end up complaining and dealing with 2fps in an industry where you're lucky if you get over 10.
I still use 1080p for work. It's a good balance.
I still use 1080p for work. It's a good balance.
Yeah 8k is dumb. Marketing gimmick, it'll never be mass adopted.
You need 70inches at the average sofa distance to even notice 4k.
CaptainSlayAHo
Banned
I'm not sure what the average sofa distance is, but I've been to family and friends houses that brag about their new high end TV and it's 3.5 feet above eye level and 14+ feet back
Marketing exists for a reason I suppose
Imo, spend your money where you spend your time, start with a good bed, and work down lol, I'm pretty sure watching TV ranks above showable room for 99 percent of people
Fredrik
Member
Yeah. No 20/20 vision here. Never had any bigger issues with 1080p on a 24” screen tbh, can see pixels but it’s not a big deal. And I just went up to 1440p 27” yesterday. The resolution is not what’s making me go wow. Like at all. The big difference is going up in screen size and not having a screen with 8 year old screen tech. That’s what I’m taking away from all this.
I feel like 4K would’ve been a waste unless I went up to 32” instead, would’ve just made it hard to read Windows text without using scaling.
However, is the DLSS scaler algoritm changing when you increase screen resolution from 1080p to 1440p?
Cyberpunk looks gorgeous now. Or is it just the already mentioned screen size and screen tech difference I’m feeling again?
Biggest issue few talk about with higher resolution. The framerate.
With DLSS Off the framerate in Cyberpunk goes dooooown. About 30-35fps in a crowded city area with my poor 3070 Ti.
With DLSS Quality I get 57-65fps.
01011001
Banned
yooo, you should look into Digital Foundry's optimized settings, I get only slightly worse performance than that on my 3060ti... I think you can turn down some unneccessary settings to claw back some performance there to at least lock to 60fps with DLSS
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Absolutely va is garbage and I am not trolling. I am kinda an expert on this.
Va have so many problems over god ips
Lucifers Beard
Member
I’m not a developer so can’t really comment on whether or not it would have been possible to get 4K60 on either of the games you mentioned.
I do think that 4K is much more demanding than a lot of people think though and yes, if the developers couldn’t manage to get those engines running those games at 4K60 then I believe them, they are the experts in that area.
When playing on my Series X, I also switch between fidelity and performance modes and wish that fidelity was 4K60 or 120hz. It’s just not going to happen in the majority of cases though and you’re going to have to compromise either frames or fidelity.
Personally, I think 1440p looks good enough, even on my Samsung Q90R. No, it isn’t running 4K60 but it looks good and I get the benefits of higher frames, which I think is more important than 4K.
Unreal Engine 5 is going to be the normal engine of choice for many games soon enough and I’ve got a suspicion that even these newer consoles are going to struggle to maintain high fidelity graphics at 60fps. Hopefully I’m wrong!
Anyway, when it comes down to it. If you want high fidelity settings and the frames, PC is the only way you’re really going to achieve that.
01011001
Banned
input lag and pixel response is king, and VA wins on both
IPS is the "nicer to look at" one, but for gaming VA is simply better
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Fredrik
Member
Lol nothing is garbage come on. Not even my old TN from 2014 was garbage.
I just bought an IPS screen, cheaper model so not even good IPS but in the end I still think it’s absolutely phenomenal. Was worried about ghosting but can’t see anything. And the colors are superb! And I can finally have the kids sitting beside me so I don’t have to stream to the living room and get crap fps and image, viewing angels from the side is fantastic.
But I see it as a stop gap screen until I can go with a super ultra wide. That Samsung 32:9 was something else!
Rtings on different screen types and their positives and negatives:
IPS vs VA vs TN: Comparing LCD Types Found In Monitors
There are different monitor technologies that each affect picture quality in their unique way. Each panel technology has its strengths and weaknesses, and choosing the best one for you usually depends on your usage and personal preferences.
www.rtings.com
Brightness: IPS
Vertical Viewing Angles: IPS
Gray Uniformity: VA and IPS
Black Uniformity: VA, but not by much
SDR Color Gamut: IPS
HDR Color Gamut: IPS
Motion Handling: TN & IPS
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Fredrik
Member
It’s okay with gsync, can’t see those drops. My point is how would it have performed on a 4K screen? I think it’s easy to fall into a trap where you spend more than you need on a screen and then has to spend more than you want on upgrades to run games well on your new screen.
WhamBamThankYouMaam
Member
If you can run it.
If you sit at the correct distance.
If your eyesight is good (distance plays in of course).
Then 4K is golden.
If you sit at the correct distance.
If your eyesight is good (distance plays in of course).
Then 4K is golden.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
What? Va looses hugely on response times. It’s the worst thing about va. What are you smoking
01011001
Banned
IPS vs VA vs TN
notice how the horizontal line of the G basically touches the vertical line on the IPS, while on VA and TN the gap is way clearer visible
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
What bs is that?IPS vs VA vs TN
notice how the horizontal line of the G basically touches the vertical line on the IPS, while on VA and TN the gap is way clearer visible
You realise these are backlight strobing pictures?
There is nothing to discuss. It’s not my opinion. It’s a fact. Va is terrible for viewing angles, gamma handling and pixel response times
01011001
Banned
these are not with backlight strobing, they are with pixel overdrive
Edgelord79
Gold Member
All things being equal, 2160p is obviously better.
Problem is all things aren’t equal which makes 1440p the ideal resolution in most cases.
Problem is all things aren’t equal which makes 1440p the ideal resolution in most cases.
OverHeat
« generous god »
Console user?
Altares13th
Member
Yes, 4k is overkill. At least on my 55 inch TV.
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Fredrik
Member
You shouldn’t generalize like that. They sum it up at the section after:IPS vs VA vs TN
notice how the horizontal line of the G basically touches the vertical line on the IPS, while on VA and TN the gap is way clearer visible
VA
”VA panels are a bit of a strange situation. They typically have slightly slower response times overall compared to similar TN or IPS models. It's especially noticeable in near-black scenes, where they tend to be significantly slower, resulting in dark trails behind fast-moving objects in dark scenes, commonly known as black smear.”
But there is a solution, with some drawbacks:
”Some recent VA panels, such as the Samsung Odyssey G7 LC32G75T, get around it by overdriving the pixels. It results in much better dark scene performance but a more noticeable overshoot in brighter areas.”
StateofMajora
Banned
Ips has grey blacks, clouding, extremely poor uniformity on larger TV's. Did I mention terrible black level.
On a good VA panel there isn't any smearing. On both ips and va there will be some motion blur, though yes some va panels have some extra trailing i.e. Sony x940e Bravia.
My x900e has excellent motion, the best LCD tv I've ever seen for motion and has no black trailing.
There is a reason all the enthusiast TV's use VA panels, ips is reserved for low end stuff and lg LCD, because well they produce ips panels themselves.
As for monitors, they have been crappy for a very long time.
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
VA pcture details will always darken or smear. The night sky test failed on every va I had/tried. The starts always dim when moving the camera. And 2d games like binding of isaac always showed ghosting with va.
But even setting motion aside, since 144hz and strobing DO HELP a lot... the gamma shift ruins any picture qualities there could be and this is not fixable on va.
Edges are brighter than middle which usually is too dark. And clouding galore is always worst on va.
Good ips, especially 4k panels or with glossy coating can have very good perceived contrast, no clouding AT ALL and handle motion better.,
Look. This was result of my 2 years (about 12 monitors) search back in 2019. Lg 4k ips was the winner when it comes to contrast/ips glow and clouding.
This is a very good result for an IPS: lg 27uk650 (i had 2). I will spare you all shitty 1440p, tn and va pictures.
But these days, all 1440p ips panels have IPS glow (not angle dependant) in at least 1 corner.
StateofMajora
Banned
Never ever seen smearing on my 900e Sony Tv. Maybe on monitors ips is preferred, couldn't say as I've been using TV's for PC gaming for years. Hardware unboxed recommends many va type monitors though.VA pcture details will always darken or smear. The night sky test failed on every va I had/tried. The starts always dim when moving the camera. And 2d games like binding of isaac always showed ghosting with va.
But even setting motion aside, since 144hz and strobing DO HELP a lot... the gamma shift ruins any picture qualities there could be and this is not fixable on va.
Edges are brighter than middle which usually is too dark. And clouding galore is always worst on va.
Good ips, especially 4k panels or with glossy coating can have very good perceived contrast, no clouding AT ALL and handle motion better.,
Look. This was result of my 2 years (about 12 monitors) search back in 2019. Lg 4k ips was the winner when it comes to contrast/ips glow and clouding.
This is a very good result for an IPS: lg 27uk650 (i had 2). I will spare you all shitty 1440p, tn and va pictures.
But these days, all 1440p ips panels have IPS glow (not angle dependant) in at least 1 corner.
Nothing can fix ips contrast, not even many local dimming zones. Lg nano cell with near 2000 zones looks like complete garbage, super cloudy and grey blacks.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I am not arguing for ips lol. Fuck all that lcd crap ayway.
I got OLED for a reason!
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
1440p isn't ideal for big screens at close range.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
You like dim displays?