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[Superayate]

I was playing R&C yesterday when HFW was installing, when I launched it, I stopped it directly, 30FPS is horrible when you start moving the camera (wonderful when static...) and the 60FPS feels so blur, I don't know how it couldn't have been raised before by reviewers etc....

 

[Superayate]

I am playing on 30fps with default motion blur and dont have that bug. Brightness in hdr is kept the same when I am spinning around.
It does seem like a bug for those who have it or some TVs are worse at handling this "feature"

There is the same problem when HDR is desactivated

 

[Mister Wolf]

If 4K checkerboard has image quality similar to 1800p native then what is 1800p checkerboard's native equivalent? Slightly above 1080p?

 

[lh032]

Guerilla, you better fucking fix the performance mode. The picrture quality is too sharp in performance mode.

 

[Tarnpanzer]

If 4K checkerboard has image quality similar to 1800p native then what is 1800p checkerboard's native equivalent? Slightly above 1080p?

Checkerboard works with half the resolution on one axis.

2160p = 3840*2160 native; 1920*2160 checkerboard ~4.1 million pixels
1800p = 3200*1800 native; 1600*1800 checkerboard ~2.9 million pixels, almost the same as 1287p, so ~almost right in the middle of 1080p and 1440p

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Its a console warrior thing. They are defending 30fps

Go to the Forza Horizon 5 OT and call them out as well then go somewhere you feel secure and safe away from these 30fps modes.

 

[SeraphJan]

I like Vincent's channel, for me I find his videos are more useful compare to Digital Foundry. No disrespect to DF though, they did the best for what they are good at.

 

[NahaNago]

It's crazy how critically detailed the complaints for horizon forbidden west graphics are. I don't think I've ever seen this before.

Oh and for those 60 fps or nothing warriors, I'm fine with 30 fps games

 

[TGO]

Haven't noticed it myself, looked like contrast enhancement in the video.
My old Samy did that, especially with GOW3 Remastered

 

[Fake]

This monster is probably giving review bombing on Metacritic.

 

[ethomaz]

I have no ideia why I watched a tease to get 100k views to make a new video.

I newer watch a video again from him.
That is why I don’t like videos

Said that he put some interesting points but I could not reproduce his findings in 30fps mode.

 

[Luipadre]

Playing on C9 and never noticed this. Even after i watched the video i tried to but i just cant.

 

[Arioco]

Checkerboard works with half the resolution on one axis.

2160p = 3840*2160 native; 1920*2160 checkerboard ~4.1 million pixels
1800p = 3200*1800 native; 1600*1800 checkerboard ~2.9 million pixels, almost the same as 1287p, so ~almost right in the middle of 1080p and 1440p

I think even 1287p with a good TAA should provide a clean IQ. There's definitely something going on here, and it's not the low number of pixels. Other games run at 1800p CB (Infamous SS, Ghost of Tsushima...) and the IQ is fine and don't show that kind of shimmering people is complaining about, so I don't even fathom what the problem might be.

 

[Lanrutcon]

"Tainted"

So melodramatic.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Checkerboard works with half the resolution on one axis.

2160p = 3840*2160 native; 1920*2160 checkerboard ~4.1 million pixels
1800p = 3200*1800 native; 1600*1800 checkerboard ~2.9 million pixels, almost the same as 1287p, so ~almost right in the middle of 1080p and 1440p

I think people this gen have already gotten used to 1440p native at 60fps so anything less is immediately discernable to them now. 1880p checkerboard must be nowhere similar to 1440p native in image quality on top of adding checkerboard artifacts.

 

[Arioco]

Playing on C9 and never noticed this. Even after i watched the video i tried to but i just cant.

Digital or physical copy?

What's the sharpening setting on your TV? I've heard turning it all the way down to 0 might help, according to some people.

I haven't had the opportunity to try the game myself and I'm just gathering info.

 

[Luipadre]

Digital or physical copy?

What's the sharpening setting on your TV? I've heard turning it all the way down to 0 might help, according to some people.

I haven't had the opportunity to try the game myself and I'm just gathering info.

why does it matter? its digital and the sharpening is default 10

 

[John Wick]

Imagine thinking the graphical difference is huge between the two modes.

Imagine if there was a website that specialised in graphical differences between modes eh?
Imagine if that website was called DF and they stated there is pretty stark difference?
Imagine if you weren't dense?

 

[John Wick]

Yes, that is so. On console that would be the case.
Can't remember when was the last time I play a AAA game at 30 fps.

Oh it's for console warrior stuff I get it. If people are enjoying playing 30fps why are you triggered? It doesn't concern you.

 

[Hugare]

Their AA sollution sucks so much

Quality mode is almost perfect, but thats backed up by the high resolution. But you can still see some shimmering.

Performance is really terrible. A game with so much vegetation causing this much shimmering. They should have gone with TAA or something like 90% of the industry is doing these days.

Sure, you would lose some texture detail, but that would be worth it

 

[Three]

Isn't the waveform analysis results expected with high frequency high contrast detail when applying motion blur? If you had alternating black and white lines/pixels when they are in motion and you apply motion blur they become grey and the range changes.

 

[Zathalus]

I wish the 60fps mode was 1440p with DRS for the more demanding areas.

 

[Arioco]

why does it matter? its digital and the sharpening is default 10

I don't even know if it matters, to be honest, I'm just trying to rule out some possibilities.

I'm just curious about whether it's physical or digital because some people are reporting the problem while some other seem to have no problem at all. Same wise the hot fix has apparently worked for some people but others say they see no difference at all. I just wonder what the difference might be, there's got to be some explanation.

As for the setting, as I said, I've heard that use 0 sharpening helps with the issue. In your case (LG OLED) some people say 10 and 0 are the same (that is, no sharpening at all) so I guess that's how it should be.

Thanks a lot for the info.

 

[Tarnpanzer]

I think even 1287p with a good TAA should provide a clean IQ. There's definitely something going on here, and it's not the low number of pixels. Other games run at 1800p CB (Infamous SS, Ghost of Tsushima...) and the IQ is fine and don't show that kind of shimmering people is complaining about, so I don't even fathom what the problem might be.

Maybe this is a result of the added sharpening filter in Horizon.

As for the setting, as I said, I've heard that use 0 sharpening helps with the issue. In your case (LG OLED) some people say 10 and 0 are the same (that is, no sharpening at all) so I guess that's how it should be.

"0" is the correct value. Everything elso oversharpens the image.

Of course using any other than "0" is personal preference.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Oh no!

Anyway...

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Glad i waited before playing it. Hopefully they sort this out soon. Seems like it doesn't affect everyone equality. Many people don't see any issues...

 

[mejin]

Playing on C9 and never noticed this. Even after i watched the video i tried to but i just cant.

I have one from the same gen: E9 65. No problemo at all and didn't need to fix shit. Game is amazing.

 

[ethomaz]

I was playing R&C yesterday when HFW was installing, when I launched it, I stopped it directly, 30FPS is horrible when you start moving the camera (wonderful when static...) and the 60FPS feels so blur, I don't know how it couldn't have been raised before by reviewers etc....

But we know Performance mode is blurry because reviewers said so.
DF even said their preferred mode was Resolution.

 

[ethomaz]

Imagine thinking the graphical difference is huge between the two modes.

But it is.

 

[FrankWza]

think people this gen have already gotten used to 1440p native at 60fps so anything less is immediately discernable to them now.

Ah. So if a machine can’t hit this consistently as it’s top output it’s not current gen. Good to know.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Ah. So if a machine can’t hit this consistently as it’s top output it’s not current gen. Good to know.

Dying light 2 and Horizon's performance mode are in the same boat. Neither are 1440p and the vitriol is spewing out of gamer's mouths.

 

[ManaByte]

I think Horizon looks better than Zero Dawn and better than the hyperbolic reactions are saying. BUT I’m playing more next gen Cyberpunk right now and that is honestly more impressive graphically.

 

[buenoblue]

I can't believe that anyone could prefer 30fps over 60. It's blows my mind. 30 is gross and turns the image into a blurred mess when moving. Sheesh.

 

[BLAUcopter]

Aloys sweaty ass...

r/HorizonZeroDawnPORN

 

[Arioco]

Maybe this is a result of the added sharpening filter in Horizon.



"0" is the correct value. Everything elso oversharpens the image.

Of course using any other than "0" is personal preference.

Maybe it's the sharpening as you say, but it's very weird. I mean, Horizon Zero Dawn uses CB rendering too and the game is famous for its clean IQ. I even remember John from Digital Foundry saying Horizon: ZD was one of the cleanest games he'd ever seen on console when he made the analysis. And I agree, I played the game back then on Pro and I thought the IQ was really excellent. So I can't even imagine what could've gone wrong this time. If it's the sharpening it should be easily fixed, shouldn't it? If and when Guerrilla didn't change the CB technique or the AA method (which I don't think they did), but otherwise the only change I know of is the resolution (from 2160p CB to 1800p CB). But on the other hand this game also has a native 2160p mode, which should look way better than what we saw in the previos game, since it's x2 the number of pixels, and still some people complain about the IQ, so I honestly don't know.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Maybe it's the sharpening as you say, but it's very weird. I mean, Horizon Zero Dawn uses CB rendering too and the game is famous for its clean IQ. I even remember John from Digital Foundry saying Horizon: ZD was one of the cleanest games he'd ever seen on console when he made the analysis. And I agree, I played the game back then on Pro and I thought the IQ was really excellent. So I can't even imagine what could've gone wrong this time. If it's the sharpening it should be easily fixed, shouldn't it? If and when Guerrilla didn't change the CB technique or the AA method (which I don't think they did), but otherwise the only change I know of is the resolution (from 2160p CB to 1800p CB). But on the other hand this game also has a native 2160p mode, which should look way better than what we saw in the previos game, since it's x2 the number of pixels, and still some people complain about the IQ, so I honestly don't know.

Checkboard Rendering must only be effective at higher base resolutions. Even Housemarque that used a 1080p base resolution for Returnal combined Checkerboard Rendering with Temporal Upscaling to achieve fake 4K.

 

[TonyK]

I can't believe that anyone could prefer 30fps over 60. It's blows my mind. 30 is gross and turns the image into a blurred mess when moving. Sheesh.

This game only looks good in resolution mode. Even my more 60fps taliban friends are playing it at 30.

 

[Arioco]

Checkboard Rendering must only be effective at higher base resolutions. Even Housemarque that used a 1080p base resolution for Returnal combined Checkerboard Rendering with Temporal Upscaling to achieve fake 4K.

I don't this the low number of pixels is the reason. As I already pointed out other games such as Infamous SS, Ghost of Tsushima or GT Sports also run at 1800p CB on Pro and I've seen literally noboby complaining about their IQ, quite the opposite in fact. The problem must be somewhere else, but to be honest I have no idea. The sharpening filter might have something to do, since some people complained from the very beginning that it even caused a weird halo artifact around Aloy when turning the camera, but who knows... I mean, Guerrilla should know, but we can only speculate. What we know for a fact is that the game IQ in its current state is not what we expected at all, even after the hot fix. And according to some people that could be said about both modes, the 1800pCB but also the native 4K.


By the way, as far as I know Returnal doesn't make use of CB at all, it's rendered at 1080p and then applies Unreal temporal upsampling, which is totally different.

 

[ANDS]

So Vincent has analysed the game on his reference monitor with real time waveform analysis and he found out that the dynamic range becomes more compressed when you move the camera, which is restored once the scene becomes static again, causing brightness fluctuations that create an almost flickery effect, which is very distracting. And basically this is what so many people have been complaining about. Comparing to other tittles (specifically Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart) whe an see the dynamic range is the same when we move the camera.



Vincent states that the hot-fix launched by Guerrilla doesn't seem to have worked for him (same as many people have said) , so I hope they are already working in a patch that can solve the issue once and for all.

Guerrilla, you have some work to do here!

The hotfix removed the shimmering and those color saturation changes were gone once I changed my TVs picture mode. All this the community (including here) sussed out within the first few hours of release.

 

[Tarnpanzer]

Checkboard Rendering must only be effective at higher base resolutions. Even Housemarque that used a 1080p base resolution for Returnal combined Checkerboard Rendering with Temporal Upscaling to achieve fake 4K.

Returnal looks very soft after all. Very noticable in Biome 2, which is much brighter that Biome 1.

 

[Arioco]

The hotfix removed the shimmering and those color saturation changes were gone once I changed my TVs picture mode. All this the community (including here) sussed out within the first few hours of release.

But it's weird all the same, if you have a look at Guerrilla's tweet you'll see a lot of people saying that the hot fix has done nothing for them. Since I haven't had the opportunity to try the game myself and I've only watched some videos on YouTube I could not tell, to be honest.

Anyway I hope Guerrilla will fixed soon, whatever it is.

 

[Snake29]

The Fuck?

Uhm..just try it maybe? Game mode HDR on the CX has more input lag then filmmaker mode with this game. But it clearly feels less responsive in Game Mode HDR.

Okay then... Some of you guys are genuinely crazy.

Every offence. (I'm not going to say no offence, as I mean it)

The 30fps mode already feels great out of the box then in a lot of other games. The 60fps mode resolution is much lower and has shimmering. 30fps with these settings and filmmaker mode (way less input lag), feels really good and that together with the resolution mode for higher res en better graphics.

I can't believe that anyone could prefer 30fps over 60. It's blows my mind. 30 is gross and turns the image into a blurred mess when moving. Sheesh.

You might understand when you play the game. 30fps version looks mucht better, has less shimmering, and with some tweaks in the menu..the gameplay feels really smooth. I wouldn't bother 30fps if the difference in image quality wasn't "huge". The problem is, the res is much lower and i can't stand the shimmering atm in the 60fps mode. It's less noticible when you turn off HDR.

And yeah the filmmaker mode thing. I tested it myself and the input lag is lower then Game mode HDR.

 

[pratyush]

I wonder how many games is scrutinized to this extent. I am 25 hours in this game and playing it on LG CX and it looks fantastic, Every game has issue but not every game will generate clicks for Youtube video

 

[Umbasaborne]

I love how he titled the video as if he has some brave controversial opinion that everyone else is too scared to say.

 

[marjo]

Hopefully the PC port (whenever it comes) won't have these issues.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Hopefully the PC port (whenever it comes) won't have these issues.

I think in 4 years it will be perfect...

 

[Elbow Identity Shallow]

I do wish that Vincent would go back to what he's actually trained to do, as his channel has unfortunately become more popular he's veered more and more from what he does so well in an attempt to chase the ever moving YouTube algorithm. This is something that ruins so many channels when they start having moderate success in terms of income, they very much lose what made them interesting and useful in the first place in the pursuit of maintaining their income. It's certainly not unique to this channel.
I do wish he would go back to talking about what he actually has expertise in, when he concentrated on panels it could be such an interesting/useful channel.
I've not watched it for what must be over a year now since he attempted to move away from his speciality and become more marketable.
His overly rehearsed "dad humour" would have felt dated in the '80s let alone now but that was OK, the fact that he celebrates that flaw was a part of what made him an interesting presenter in the past but only when it was combined the true content of his panel analysis.

 

[Calling 911 Melts Beams]

I play at 60fps while blinking rapidly so I get the best of both worlds

 

[Haggard]

I think in 4 years it will be perfect...

As long as they implement full blown RTGI and RTAO to get rid of all those scenarios where the baked lighting fails miserably (pretty much anywhere without direct light) I´m ok with waiting and even double dipping.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I wish the 60fps mode was 1440p with DRS for the more demanding areas.

That would be much, much better.