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Playstation 5 VR is going to show what the VR medium is truly capable of

mrmeh

Member
The problem is the hard-core market is going to be your lifeblood until passive VR entertainment comes around. Until we get something like movies made using 360° cameras, the more passive Quest market will treat the thing like a novelty. Sure it'll be fun to break out every now and again, but it will eventually be seen as a fad, and put away like casual audience did to the wii before it. To truly make consistent inroads in those demographics, you need something people don't need to be active participants in.

So I have an XsX, Switch and Quest 2... I guess by hours played my 9 year old would be described as a hardcore gamer and she's more interested in playing the Quest 2 than the X. She's even used her xmas monies to buy Quest games...(I realise my parenting is questionable as your supposed to be over 13 to use quest..)

That said there is a limit to how much you can play VR and I think it will be a special activity for a while to come yet rather than a casual pick up and play due to its nature.
 
So I have an XsX, Switch and Quest 2... I guess by hours played my 9 year old would be described as a hardcore gamer and she's more interested in playing the Quest 2 than the X. She's even used her xmas monies to buy Quest games...(I realise my parenting is questionable as your supposed to be over 13 to use quest..)

That said there is a limit to how much you can play VR and I think it will be a special activity for a while to come yet rather than a casual pick up and play due to its nature.
If she's actively seeking out new experiences, and putting down cash on em, yeah I'd call her a gamer.

I'm talking about the people who bought it for the novelty of experiencing VR, played Beat Saber a few times, then only drag it back out to show friends. The same "casual market" the Wii made inroads with through games like Wii Sports and mini game collections. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with appealing to that market, just that once the novelty wears off they don't tend to stick around unless the platform offers more passive experiences. Truly immersive movie experiences might do it, but we aren't there yet, and unless they have a dedicated audience ready in the background when the novelty dies off, Quest 3 or 4 might have trouble selling.
 

Kerotan

Member
I think PSVR2 will work on both PS5 and PC. With that combination it will sell a lot and be very viable as a device.

Is it confirmed it won't be wireless? I'd pay a little extra to get it wjtj3a wireless adapter tbh.
 

Rudius

Member
PSVR on PS4 is capable of better than PS3 era graphics, even if it's not usually the case. Astrobot, Blood and Truth, RE7 prooved that, but those are top tier titles. The reason why many games have dated graphics has a lot to do with the budget they have.

I expect that the combination of more power and a more successful VR market will increase the number of big budget titles on PSVR2. Also the PCVR ports should help in that department.
 

ClosBSAS

Member
first, it needs to be better than valves index, second, it needs a killer app like half life alyx. if none of those are met, it wont be better.
 
That top graphic is massively flawed for the point you're making. Of course a product that only entered the market this year is going to see massive q4 2020 sales compared to a product that entered the market 5 years ago. Like I get the aversion to using Sales to Date to compare the 2, because obviously that would skew in PSVR's favor by virtue of being on the market longer, but at the very least you could compare sales of their first quarter or two on the market.

Like I dont even necessarily disagree with the point you're making, but using that graph the way you are is some seriously misleading shit.
Psvr take almost three quarter despite the cheapest by headset price and by entry hardware to reach one million sales and quest reach that at a quarter. And also the software sales is by date sales not quarterly. By both graph you could make conclusion that PCVR is the crowd most interested at.
 
Psvr take almost three quarter despite the cheapest by headset price and by entry hardware to reach one million sales and quest reach that at a quarter. And also the software sales is by date sales not quarterly. By both graph you could make conclusion that PCVR is the crowd most interested at.
I never said anything about whether or not you were right, or if your second graph was good. I said your first graph is a very poor way to make your point, because it compares the quarterly sales of a 5 year old piece of hardware to one that dropped this year. Its the equivalent of comparing Q4 2020 Galaxy S21 sales to those of the iPhone 7. The data isn't useful outside of tricking the few who would glance at the bars and just see one over 8 times longer than the other.

If what you said in your reply is true, you should've used that data to make your point, because the data is actually on your side. That top image just makes it look like you need to use misleading figures to make you argument appear to have merit.
 

MHubert

Member
Better than top tier pc vr?! I have my doubts, especially if they have to maintain a low price.

I am sorry, but no. OQ2 and/or the Index on a high end PC show off what VR is capable of.

PSVR2 (or PS5 VR, whatever the name is) will be great. It will be a very nice step up from PSVR on a PS4/Pro, but it will not be the pinnacle of what the medium offers.

It will not come close to a Valve Index on a high end PC, probably won't match the Quest 2.

No, I am not PCMR. It's just reality. If you expect it compete with something like Half-Life: Alyx experienced on the Index running on a 3090, it will pale in comparison. That's not even the best analogy/comparison I should make, but you get what I mean.
It really depends. There is a possibility that PSVR2 might have eye tracking, which means it might support foveated rendering. If that is the case, it could potentially support 4K120HZ displays, and would easily be able to smoke any available PC high-end headset on the market right now.
 

Mr.ODST

Member
PSVR is great for general consumers without a PC, Wired VR headsets are really outdated in terms of the experience, after owning a Quest 2 and potential of Oculus Link allowing to play on my PC aswell the experience is so much better.

See what they add with the PSVR2.
 

Shrap

Member
Quest 2 has already done that. Plus the new PSVR is still wired. Outdated before it's even released.
 

ManaByte

Member
I really don't understand the whole wired thing. Maybe its because I've only used a PSVR and Quest 1, but I didn't mind the wires that much, and I cant see how wireless doesn't immediately cause latency problems

The Quest 2 can run games natively OR wirelessly from a PC.
 
The Quest 2 can run games natively OR wirelessly from a PC.
That definitely makes more sense, but then you're running into hardware constraints like cooling and weight. I dont see how visual fidelity can be all that great when you're rendering the same image twice on a wearable gpu. I guess I'd have to see for myself though
 
I imagine it'll be competing against the OQ3 by the time it drops in 2022, or at least whispers of an OQ3 given the rapid update of OQ1. So the discussion is more about comparing as yet unknown conceptual ideas, albeit with one being wired and other without.
 

ManaByte

Member
I imagine it'll be competing against the OQ3 by the time it drops in 2022, or at least whispers of an OQ3 given the rapid update of OQ1. So the discussion is more about comparing as yet unknown conceptual ideas, albeit with one being wired and other without.
I’m perfectly happy with the Quest 2 and have gotten more use out of it than either next gen console yet. If the Quest 3 is a big jump I’d upgrade right away.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
I would have to see it to really believe it.
Way way way too much grey in that discussion so far. Especially as this sounds to be a long way off and we know of some incredible systems as well coming out.
But I wish them well.
Dev Kits coming soon.

So probably a holiday 2022 product?
 
I really don't understand the whole wired thing. Maybe its because I've only used a PSVR and Quest 1, but I didn't mind the wires that much, and I cant see how wireless doesn't immediately cause latency problems
Depends on what you're playing. If it's a seated experience like a racing game or flight sim, I don't mind a wire at all.

But as soon as you stand up, to draw in Gravity Sketch or to play Half Life Alyx or Boneworks etc wireless is SOOOOO much better.

And you wouldn't think that wireless VR over Wifi would be possible. But it's not only possible, it's actually great.
 

TheMan

Member
I have to agree with most posts in the thread stating that PC will always be home to the top tier VR experience. Besides the obvious ability to upgrade your hardware, there's the huge factor of not having a walled garden. That means there all kinds of things you can do on PC that are hard to match on console- simulations, easy access to porn, the list goes on.
That said PSVR 2 stands to offer a hassle-free and likely cheaper way to get into VR unless you're willing to settle for an older PC headset.
 
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Karak

Member
Dev Kits coming soon.

So probably a holiday 2022 product?
If there are no microproc connections, which there don't seem to be, and no other shortages, than ya perhaps. Since no one has kits and such it will take awhile for VR specific games. So users should expect things like Skyrim remastered VR and Alyx and stuff like that to be the major releases. There will be some quick turn around on some games but its rare.
 

Business

Member
Wireless is the way. Literally got a Quest 2 a couple of hours ago and I'm quite happy with it. I owned an Oculus DK2 back in the day and later on a Vive and getting rid of the cables and the external tracking is huge. I think it will make all the difference in terms of the use I'll give this thing as setting up my Vive was a real pita. The fact that the Q2 can also be used tethered to a desktop PC or wirelessly is an incredible bonus. Facebook gets a lot of deserved flak but credit to them for releasing this thing at this price point, impressed with it so far.
 
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In case there’s any doubt, there are already studios working on next-gen PSVR games.

SIE London Studio have been working on their next project for a while, FireSprite (ex-Sony devs) are working on a VR version of a big PlayStation IP for Sony and the maker of Low-Fi let slip that their games was coming to next-gen console VR some time ago.

Impulse Gear (partnered with SIE for Farpoint) are also working on new AAA VR games, so there’s someone else worth watching.

Edit - hopefully Insomniac have got stuff in the works too. They released 4 VR games on PC, 3 of which were very, very good.
 
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Haggard

Banned
What VR is really capable of?
What would that be? Higher res, higher fps/hz with less nausea?
Will they finally get rid of the constant shaking of your "hands/FOV" and get the movement tracking 100% real-time accurate? Because that`s been promised since the Wii.
How are they ever supposed to get over the disjointed feeling movement without Movie-level Brainink VR tech or an omnidirectional treadmill in your living room?

(and yes, I played HL Alyx and that one still suffers from all the basic VR issues...)
 
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ToTTenTranz

Banned
PS5 VR headset will finally show the possibilities with VR:

- Slightly higher than PS4 Quality Visuals in VR @ 90 FPS (vs. extremely low-rez sub PS3 era visuals)
- Substantially improved Visual Fidelity for the Lenses
- Significant upgrade for the controller interface that isn't limited by PS3-era tech
- No breakout box required (tech is integrated into PS5)

Also, I think Tempest is much more oriented for VR than anything else.
If Sony just wanted to connect their console to a TV or monitor, my bet is they'd just pay for an Atmos license and get a smaller DSP to handle it.
Being able to pinpoint the source of a sound more accurately is more important for VR than it is for people playing on a TV.

IIRC, there's also a patent suggesting they'll be putting haptic feedback on the headset itself, and not just the controllers.
 
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IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
If there are no microproc connections, which there don't seem to be, and no other shortages, than ya perhaps. Since no one has kits and such it will take awhile for VR specific games. So users should expect things like Skyrim remastered VR and Alyx and stuff like that to be the major releases. There will be some quick turn around on some games but its rare.
I don't know why anyone would be mad at getting excellent VR PC ports though.

Sony internally is surely developing their exclusive stuff. Getting kits out soon means those devs with PCVR games would have plenty of time to port for a 2022 release.
 
Absolutely agree - I think Q2 is a pretty decent step up from my Q1 (certainly in comfort) so a Q3 will hopefully be an absolute dingdong. I'm not even bothered with investing in either of the new consoles at the moment - gaming on a 2d plane feels comparatively just oh so... jejune

...apart from the odd indie game here/there

EDIT: Ooops, that was supposed to quote Manabyte. I'm fairly fresh around here and forget to press the right buttons...
 
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PSVR2 is absolutely the beginning of Gen 2 VR. It will blow away the current PSVR and all current PC VR Headsets. I'm willing to bet anything on that.

First let's think about the PSVR 2 headset itself. An increase of field of view is going to be a huge game changer for immersion. Now, how big are they going? A measley 120-130 degrees like the Valve Index? Nah! Sony needs to push this FOV to at least 140 and above to be a game changer. I have the Valve Index and a Pimax 8kx, and I will tell you we NEED more FOV. Especially vertically. If we can hit 140 horizontal by 130 vertical, it will be a revolution in VR.

The resolution will be astounding I'm sure. We're looking at likely 4k per eye, at a minimum what the HP Reverb G2 has (which I also have) but at the much wider FOV. This resolution increase is going to be beautiful. But NOT just because of the screen itself, but the main reason is the PS5 hardware. The PS5 hardware is pretty fucking powerful for VR. It's about a RTX 2070 Super in power, but the main thing about it is that this is now the BASELINE for developers to build for. On PC, a game like Alyx has to be built to run on something like a GTX 1060, and other games have far lower requirements. I think when you see what first party developers like Insomniac can do building around that high spec of the PS5, they will create some amazing stuff.

The games will be able to run at high resolution. If you see something highly super sampled in VR, it can look amazing. The reason why alot of PSVR games don't always look amazing is because they simply have to lower the resolution so much just to get it to run. So like you said, PSVR is running about PS3 level graphics in VR at times. PS5 will likely enable close to PS5 level graphics running at full resolution, especially if they add EYE TRACKING. Eye tracking will enable foveated rendering. This combined with DLSS like algorithm would make for an amazing increase in performance and resolution.

Even on the Quest 2, if you go into Side Quest, you can increase the rendered resolution of the Quest 2 to the native resolution of the screen. Look at the Oculus Home Environment at that resolution. It looks absolutely incredible. Crystal clear and beautiful. And that's Quest 2 level graphics, which is really hovering around PS2 level (I saw someone above argue that Quest 2 does PS4 graphics?? Absolutely not) Even with these graphics, the resolution makes it look amazing. The Quest 2 simply can't run those visuals at a high enough frame rate, but the PS5 can.

If we could get God of War, The Last of Us 2, Ghosts of Tsushima level graphics at high res and wide FOV in VR, people will be BLOWN THE FUCK AWAY.

I'm not even mentioning the new controller, which is probably going to be fucking amazing with the dual sense haptics.

A question that remains is tracking, which will almost surely be inside out tracking for ease of use, and hopefully it's great. The single cable is a great start, but hopefully they are working on a Wireless adapter for PSVR 2. That would be yet another game changer.

One last thing is to think about the big VR software that is coming. Rockstar is hiring for a AAA Open World VR game, Firesprite is working on a AAA VR game, Blood and Truth devs are working on a AAA VR game, Insomniac is probably cooking up something big for VR, Astro Bot 2 is almost a given, Farpoint devs are working a AAA VR game, Resident Evil 8 will likely get VR down the line. Imagine someone like Naughty Dog does a project?

The Future is so bright for VR. While Oculus is doing decent things appealing to the mass market, the Quest is held back by a mobile chipset and caters to the lowest denominator. Because of PSVR 2, AAA VR is back. Like you said, PSVR 2 will show what the medium is truly capable of.
 
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PSVR2 is absolutely the beginning of Gen 2 VR. It will blow away the current PSVR and all current PC VR Headsets. I'm willing to bet anything on that.

First let's think about the PSVR 2 headset itself. An increase of field of view is going to be a huge game changer for immersion. Now, how big are they going? A measley 120-130 degrees like the Valve Index? Nah! Sony needs to push this FOV to at least 140 and above to be a game changer. I have the Valve Index and a Pimax 8kx, and I will tell you we NEED more FOV. Especially vertically. If we can hit 140 horizontal by 130 vertical, it will be a revolution in VR.

The resolution will be astounding I'm sure. We're looking at likely 4k per eye, at a minimum what the HP Reverb G2 has (which I also have) but at the much wider FOV. This resolution increase is going to be beautiful. But NOT just because of the screen itself, but the main reason is the PS5 hardware. The PS5 hardware is pretty fucking powerful for VR. It's about a RTX 2070 Super in power, but the main thing about it is that this is now the BASELINE for developers to build for. On PC, a game like Alyx has to be built to run on something like a GTX 1060, and other games have far lower requirements. I think when you see what first party developers like Insomniac can do building around that high spec of the PS5, they will create some amazing stuff.

The games will be able to run at high resolution. If you see something highly super sampled in VR, it can look amazing. The reason why alot of PSVR games don't always look amazing is because they simply have to lower the resolution so much just to get it to run. So like you said, PSVR is running about PS3 level graphics in VR at times. PS5 will likely enable close to PS5 level graphics running at full resolution, especially if they add EYE TRACKING. Eye tracking will enable foveated rendering. This combined with DLSS like algorithm would make for an amazing increase in performance and resolution.

Even on the Quest 2, if you go into Side Quest, you can increase the rendered resolution of the Quest 2 to the native resolution of the screen. Look at the Oculus Home Environment at that resolution. It looks absolutely incredible. Crystal clear and beautiful. And that's Quest 2 level graphics, which is really hovering around PS2 level (I saw someone above argue that Quest 2 does PS4 graphics?? Absolutely not) Even with these graphics, the resolution makes it look amazing. The Quest 2 simply can't run those visuals at a high enough frame rate, but the PS5 can.

If we could get God of War, The Last of Us 2, Ghosts of Tsushima level graphics at high res and wide FOV in VR, people will be BLOWN THE FUCK AWAY.

I'm not even mentioning the new controller, which is probably going to be fucking amazing with the dual sense haptics.

A question that remains is tracking, which will almost surely be inside out tracking for ease of use, and hopefully it's great. The single cable is a great start, but hopefully they are working on a Wireless adapter for PSVR 2. That would be yet another game changer.

One last thing is to think about the big VR software that is coming. Rockstar is hiring for a AAA Open World VR game, Firesprite is working on a AAA VR game, Blood and Truth devs are working on a AAA VR game, Insomniac is probably cooking up something big for VR, Astro Bot 2 is almost a given, Farpoint devs are working a AAA VR game, Resident Evil 8 will likely get VR down the line. Imagine someone like Naughty Dog does a project?

The Future is so bright for VR. While Oculus is doing decent things appealing to the mass market, the Quest is held back by a mobile chipset and caters to the lowest denominator. Because of PSVR 2, AAA VR is back. Like you said, PSVR 2 will show what the medium is truly capable of.

excellent post, I fully agree.

PS5 VR will finally be a combination of great hardware and a big push for AAA software that runs at a very high baseline of visual fidelity.

I think people are really understating how good the headset will be too. The original PSVR was very close to top of the line in many categories when it released, and the price made it extremely compelling

Sony is going to yet again push the boundary on optics
 
lol you do realize currently the PS VR graphics are on par with PS3 games at best. We dont even have a game that looks as good as Uncharted 2.

Getting TLOU2 quality graphics in a VR game will be a massive jump.

yup. And it’s not only the graphics but the headset improvements will be massive so you can see those visuals more clearly and immersively

combine the two and VR will be an extremely compelling experience now rather than some novelty
 
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yup. And it’s not only the graphics but the headset improvements will be massive so you can see those visuals more clearly and immersively

combine the two and VR will be an extremely compelling experience now rather than some novelty
The increase in clarity is going to be the biggest eye opener for people. The resolution bump is going to be very significant. Even if it was high end PS3 level graphics like lets say, Bioshock, Uncharted 3, The Last of Us 1...that would look amazing in VR running at 120hz at 4k per eye with a wide fov. And I'm expecting even better visuals than that, close to high end PS4 level and PS5 levels with eye tracking and foveated.

Can't wait to see it.
 
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IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Sony is far more likely to try to make PSVR2 more mainstream than push some crazy specs and do a loss leader or something.

I'd be fine with either and will probably get it, but some of you guys acting like it'll be the top of the line set in the world are killing me.

Sony's exclusives are the real selling point IMO. And ease of use over PC.

But standalone sets are getting better and better too, and have the ultimate level of convenience.
 
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