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[DynamiteCop!]

There's no future in VR with a closed platform. Nothing more needs to be said.

 

[RGB'D]

You're misinterpreting my argument. I'm not suggesting PS5 VR will be the peak capability in terms of technical characteristics. I'm suggesting that PS5 VR will achieve a very high benchmark for the lowest total cost of entry, with the most robust lineup of (non-shovelware) games.

This is one area where VR can be more widely adopted. The options you listed require expensive headsets and expensive PCs. I also think that Sony is going to take a more PC friendly approach with PS5 VR. I believe they will sell ALL of their PS5 VR games on PC marketplaces, allow them to be compatible with a variety of headsets, and the only requirement for those folks that prefer the PC and a different headset for the vendor will be to buy the PS5 VR controllers.

So that's all I'm suggesting - Sony will be playing in both the console and PC space, giving consumers the lowest barrier to entry at a very high level of fidelity, while also supporting more headsets in the PC space given how fractured the VR market place is. I don't think Sony cares whether you buy their headset. They DO care that you buy their games. I think this is far more important for their VR initiatives than them porting over PS5 console games to PC, and is probably one way to dramatically improve their market penetration.

So in terms of adoption I think we will see it rise substantially from where it currently sits at less than 5%. And with them supporting PC (which for VR is critical, imho), they will make money on controller sales and games.

Have you tried anything besides PSVR? Oculus Quest 2 is wireless, has some awesome exclusives and is already cheaper than a PS5 (300 for 64GB). It also can be used with computer. Sorry but for me PSVR I ust serves as a walled garden for VR (astrobot, Ironman, hitman) with bad tracking, and bad peripherals. Sony also has no reason to support VR in PC because that would open them to workarounds (i.e. I use revive to access my oculus library with my index). It will be good that PS users can play VR and PSVRII should be decent but nothing about it is "going to show what the medium is truly capable of"

 

[Insane Metal]

I mean, what exactly do you want me to comment on? I don't have time to look at the whole thread today.

Sorry man. The dude was just saying how VR will be amazing on PS5... and I thought you could take a look... maybe say something... if not it's ok

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Have you tried anything besides PSVR? Oculus Quest 2 is wireless, has some awesome exclusives and is already cheaper than a PS5 (300 for 64GB). It also can be used with computer. Sorry but for me PSVR I ust serves as a walled garden for VR (astrobot, Ironman, hitman) with bad tracking, and bad peripherals. Sony also has no reason to support VR in PC because that would open them to workarounds (i.e. I use revive to access my oculus library with my index). It will be good that PS users can play VR and PSVRII should be decent but nothing about it is "going to show what the medium is truly capable of"

yes I have.

I am including a baseline of PS5 level hardware as a cost of entry.

 

[Tygeezy]

I really don't understand the whole wired thing. Maybe its because I've only used a PSVR and Quest 1, but I didn't mind the wires that much, and I cant see how wireless doesn't immediately cause latency problems

Wired is a problem because you are limited in your room space. I can play in my garage with a quest 2 and not worry about running out of wire, tripping on wires, or even worse spinning around in game and worry about being tangled by wires.

I don't need to use "snap" or "smooth" turning with the right stick, I just turn myself around, or if you're being lazy, spin around in a swivel chair.

 

[BGs]

Sorry man. The dude was just saying how VR will be amazing on PS5... and I thought you could take a look... maybe say something... if not it's ok

I'm sorry to tell you that since the last time I commented there have been no changes to my information. So I can only confirm the same idea that I have always shared. PSVR2 will be awesome. Although I have to admit that the wiring issue has me a bit disoriented.

 

[anothertech]

399$ Day 1

Will push the medium forward for sure

People that just don't get it will be left behind until it's mainstream. Then they'll pretend they've always been a fan lol.

 

[RGB'D]

yes I have.

I am including a baseline of PS5 level hardware as a cost of entry.

Not sure how you have such a weird opinion that it will improve the medium with a better more accessible entry cost for quality when PSVR gen 1 is still more expensive than the Oculus Quest II, and it's not like you need to buy a console to go with it. Better yet you can take your cheap Quest II and plug it into your PC if it has the specs, but honestly if you prioritize fidelity you likely have a comp that can push some basic resolution anyways. Now if PSVR focused on supporting Quest II on PS5 and focused on software that they did release on computer, I might be more agreeable with your statement but I feel like it will be swallowed up as a mid tier VR that accomplishes less than higher end units, but misses the casual marketplace that Oculus is taking over.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Not sure how you have such a weird opinion that it will improve the medium with a better more accessible entry cost for quality when PSVR gen 1 is still more expensive than the Oculus Quest II, and it's not like you need to buy a console to go with it. Better yet you can take your cheap Quest II and plug it into your PC if it has the specs, but honestly if you prioritize fidelity you likely have a comp that can push some basic resolution anyways. Now if PSVR focused on supporting Quest II on PS5 and focused on software that they did release on computer, I might be more agreeable with your statement but I feel like it will be swallowed up as a mid tier VR that accomplishes less than higher end units, but misses the casual marketplace that Oculus is taking over.

I think you're really discounting PS5 VR. It will be technically superior to OC2 when it releases, as it should. It's a few years later.

Not everyone has a PC that's the equivalent in power as PS5...very few, in fact. So yes, buying a PC should be part of the total cost of entry.

 

[Bartski]

edit: wrong thread

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Sorry...having a cable still limits this device.

It needs to be in the same room as the PS5. Wireless would cause MORE restrictions. Battery life, weight, heat, too many compromises. This is not about wired vs wireless, it is wired vs wireless with heavy battery and needing to recharge, and expensive wireless solution that would add at least 100 dollars to the ticket price. Sony has no interest in making PSVR2 even more expensive.

 

[fragganaut]

Sony could develop some sort of "wireless package" that you either wear on a belt or as an backpack in which then you plug the Headset. The communication with the Source(PS5, maybe PC) as well the power for the Headset will be supplied by this package.

 

[mckmas8808]

There's no future in VR with a closed platform. Nothing more needs to be said.

We'll all see how wrong of a statement this is.

 

[Wonko_C]

Part of Quest 2's success is that it isn't trying to sell to us jaded, scowling, neck-bearded gamers. It's selling to anybody who likes fun experiences and crazy party toys. Those people are on Facebook.

Oculus will have a harder time holding onto those casual customers, though, after they wear it a few times and then drift back to their phones, while PlayStation has a better chance of getting gamers to put on a helmet for the newest war game, but PS won't have it that easy either. Gamers tend to value their familiar buttons and joysticks and TVs too, and the hurdle for Sony is getting a Call of Duty gamer to not tell them to fuck off with their newest Waggle Goggles...

The Wii effect. It attracted a whole new huge audience, then it vanished with the Wii U. I sometimes wonder if they launched a "Wii 2" instead, would they have maintained momentum?

I think they key will be resolution, until we hit 4k per eye, its not really much different than pc vr right now. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy my quest 2, but it needs oled, wider fov, and higher resolution to take a leap.

Also a wildcard, Maybe some sort of form factor making it lighter and more comfortable, almost like glasses would go a long way.

Even that resolution isn't enough to totally eliminate pixellation. According to Palmer Luckey's estimates, we would need 8K per eye, -maybe even more than that- to get rid of the pixel-looking effect.

I thought Ready Player One laid out the perfect formula for these companies to follow. A shared universe with CG quality visuals that dont need to be photorealistic while offering some of that escapism we only get in movies. We might not get there until 2040 but they need to invest today to have studios that can create new experiences within that world every month if not every week.

People are going to spend their entire lives in there and you will need content like Netflix needs content right now. whoever gets it right will basically have a monopoly on video games in the future.

I think Nintendo going handheld only forcing all their studios to develop for a handheld was a stroke of genius (bad for fans of AAA gaming, but good for business). I think Sony will definitely need ND, SSM and Sucker Punch directors and designers releasing AAA goty caliber games on it. It's time to invest in first party studios in a way only EA and Ubisoft currently do.

From what I've seen VR Chat is like a proto-Oasis. It keeps growing and evolving with new worlds and things to do, it even recently had an aviation festival.

Wired is a problem because you are limited in your room space. I can play in my garage with a quest 2 and not worry about running out of wire, tripping on wires, or even worse spinning around in game and worry about being tangled by wires.

I don't need to use "snap" or "smooth" turning with the right stick, I just turn myself around, or if you're being lazy, spin around in a swivel chair.

Iron Man VR 2 without having to work myself around the cable would be so freeing.

It really depends. There is a possibility that PSVR2 might have eye tracking, which means it might support foveated rendering. If that is the case, it could potentially support 4K120HZ displays, and would easily be able to smoke any available PC high-end headset on the market right now.

If they include foveated rendering combined with console optimization? That could literally be a game changer.

Maybe I am being too pessimistic, but I still think eye-tracked foveated rendering is likely a few more years away, I know there are headsets with eye-tracking, but they're still enterprise-oriented.

 

[Dream-Knife]

I am curious to see how this does. PSVR did surprisingly well considered it was aimed at casuals and has a surprising lack of software. Apparently its also hard to watch VR porn on it too.

HF:Alyx is VRs Mario 64 moment, but I feel like VR won't become huge unless Nintendo jumps on board. They already experimented with it with labo, so an actual purpose built hybrid solution would be interesting.

The biggest problem with VR unlike 3d is 3d was able to be conveyed in magazine pictures. VR is something you need to actually experience.

 

[RoadHazard]

It not being wireless is gonna feel like a HUGE step down after getting used to the Quest 2. Very disappointed in that aspect.

To all those saying that would make it too expensive for mainstream appeal: Firstly, that's not the case for the Quest 2, although I guess Facebook is taking a pretty hefty loss on each one sold. Secondly, fine, make a more expensive wireless Pro version for those of us who want that then!

 

[Balducci30]

PS5 VR headset will finally show the possibilities with VR:

- Slightly higher than PS4 Quality Visuals in VR @ 90 FPS (vs. extremely low-rez sub PS3 era visuals)
- Substantially improved Visual Fidelity for the Lenses
- Significant upgrade for the controller interface that isn't limited by PS3-era tech
- No breakout box required (tech is integrated into PS5)

Feels like the PS5 is truly designed with VR in mind and won't have nearly as many compromises as PS4 VR with fuzzy resolution and low quality visuals with a hugely outdated controller. I have a feeling that PS5 VR is going to launch Fall 2022 for $299 which hits the right price, and Team Asobi is working on an AstroBot launch title to show off the features and will be an immediate killer app for the platform.

Unlike many, I don't think the fact that it has a cord is a big deal. It makes the unit significantly cheaper, smaller, lighter, and higher quality. They can also probably create a custom adapter that supports wireless capability for a higher cost. Think back to PS VR in 2016. It brought some of the best fidelity/optics for the price point at the time. Six years later will have significant improvements.

I'm pretty excited. AstroBot and Half Life Alyx were the first big AAA titles, but VR is on the verge of really breaking out with the power of next gen consoles + the improvements in optics and control.

They need to port Alyx to PSVR 2 when it comes out - I wanna sell my PC

 

[MHubert]

Maybe I am being too pessimistic, but I still think eye-tracked foveated rendering is likely a few more years away, I know there are headsets with eye-tracking, but they're still enterprise-oriented.

You are right, it is a bit optimistic. Crossing my fingers, though!

Edit: Must say, I really dig the controllers so far - it seems, at least, that PSVR2 will get inside out tracking.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

The biggest problem with VR unlike 3d is 3d was able to be conveyed in magazine pictures. VR is something you need to actually experience.

I'm skeptical of this claim.

VR has a legs problem. Everyone raves about it for the first few hours, then everyone let's it collect dust after the novelty wears off.

We still need a game that people want to put 100 - 1,000+ hours into.

Astrobot and Half Life Alyx aren't killer apps no matter how many times the media says they are.

 

[Tygeezy]

I'm skeptical of this claim.

VR has a legs problem. Everyone raves about it for the first few hours, then everyone let's it collect dust after the novelty wears off.

We still need a game that people want to put 100 - 1,000+ hours into.

Astrobot and Half Life Alyx aren't killer apps no matter how many times the media says they are.

EVERYONE is quite the stretch. The quest 2 current library as well as pcvr has quite a lot of titles to play at the moment and will only grow stronger. This is not a novelty; it's an evolution in gaming.

 

[Alright]

If Sony play their cards right, and have enough consoles in the wild to support it, PSVR2 could be the first device adopted by the mass-market

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

A big problem holding PS VR back Is the controller and graphics

both are now fixed with PS5 VR

combine the great controller with stunning software and it’ll be way more popular

 

[Keihart]

If PSVR somehow manages to be the first device supporting foveated rendering and eye tracking, i think you are right. It' would allow for a huge leap in performance and resolution that exclusives could leverage.

 

[sainraja]

We'll have to see but after finally getting into Quest 2 a little while ago, I'd say they have their work cut out for them.

OQ2 is the gold standard of VR right now:
-It's light and comfortable,.
-The screen quality is excellent.
-It's entirely wireless (this is going to be a real challenge for PSVR2).
-Very affordable price point.

It also helps that OQ2 can operate as a standalone entertainment device, though you can connect it to a PC for the big boy games. This might be a big barrier to PSVR2 becoming mainstream if it requires a PS5 to even function.

I have only tried the PSVR & Oculus via demos and recently the Oculus Quest 2 briefly but I feel like the UI interaction on the Oculus could be better and how the app library and access to that via the Oculus headset itself is a little cumbersome. This doesn't take away from the points you brought up such as wireless, light, etc but I just found it odd how the Oculus uses UI navigation in it. Not commenting on PSVR's UI system since I don't have any idea of that (assuming it just has you navigate the default PS4 UI?)

 

[Bigdrakegreenblood]

good stuff

 

[Dream-Knife]

I'm skeptical of this claim.

VR has a legs problem. Everyone raves about it for the first few hours, then everyone let's it collect dust after the novelty wears off.

We still need a game that people want to put 100 - 1,000+ hours into.

Astrobot and Half Life Alyx aren't killer apps no matter how many times the media says they are.

Half Life is that experience. Admittedly, I haven't finished it yet as I have to be in the mood to play it.

I think you're confusing success with mainstream popularity. Half Life is legendary, but only appeals to hardcore gamers. Astrobot until PS5 wasn't really known.

VR probably won't ever take off with the vast majority of gamers who prefer sports, fps (although I hear there's a great VR FPS), or more casual games. Unless some casual games for the issue (such as Nintendo), it won't ever really take off with that group. These all-in-one sets like the Quest are the right answer, but they lack must have software that a casual gamer would want to play. If the next Mario, Pokemon, etc is in VR people will buy it. But this does highlight Sony's issue, as their first party games largely only have hardcore appeal, and that market that is interested in VR is on PC.

Perhaps Sony will sell it as a platform, and offer their VR games on Steam as well. That would probably be their best bet.

A big problem holding PS VR back Is the controller and graphics

both are now fixed with PS5 VR

combine the great controller with stunning software and it’ll be way more popular

Not really. The problem holding PSVR back is it only appeals to enthusiasts, and enthusiasts are on PC. It needs simplicity and software.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Half Life is that experience. Admittedly, I haven't finished it yet as I have to be in the mood to play it.

I think you're confusing success with mainstream popularity. Half Life is legendary, but only appeals to hardcore gamers. Astrobot until PS5 wasn't really known.

VR probably won't ever take off with the vast majority of gamers who prefer sports, fps (although I hear there's a great VR FPS), or more casual games. Unless some casual games for the issue (such as Nintendo), it won't ever really take off with that group. These all-in-one sets like the Quest are the right answer, but they lack must have software that a casual gamer would want to play. If the next Mario, Pokemon, etc is in VR people will buy it. But this does highlight Sony's issue, as their first party games largely only have hardcore appeal, and that market that is interested in VR is on PC.

Perhaps Sony will sell it as a platform, and offer their VR games on Steam as well. That would probably be their best bet.

Not really. The problem holding PSVR back is it only appeals to enthusiasts, and enthusiasts are on PC. It needs simplicity and software.

no, VR does not only appeal to enthusiasts

and no, enthusiasts aren’t only on PC

 

[Elios83]

Really cool technology and features in the new controllers, it seems like they will unveil the new PSVR using the same marketing scheme used with PS5, piece by piece
About VR I think that the new headset on PS5 will basically be the right moment to jump on the VR train. The technology has matured a lot, developers now know how to make really cool VR games.
I skipped VR on PS4 because imo the technology was still not ready and with too many limitations. I look forward to the specs of PSVR2 and its games.

 

[MHubert]

I'm skeptical of this claim.

VR has a legs problem. Everyone raves about it for the first few hours, then everyone let's it collect dust after the novelty wears off.

We still need a game that people want to put 100 - 1,000+ hours into.

Astrobot and Half Life Alyx aren't killer apps no matter how many times the media says they are.

I think you are right about the legs problem, and Astrobot and Alyx not being 'the' killer apps.

Even though VR and games might seem to be the perfect match, there is a kind of incongruence between immersion, convenience and what actually constitutes a good game.

• Immersion alone is fun for a while, but when the novelty wears off, it then becomes a quite standard experience.

• A good game in itself doesn't require VR as a platform (we have yet to see a VR application, where the core gameplay, as in the game part, is 100% reliant on VR as a medium).

• Convenience, then, becomes the deciding factor for whether or not VR substitutes more common means of playing games, and here, so far, VR fails horribly.

I believe, that VR has its true potential as a social device, where you 'play' more than you 'play games', together with your friends or people you meet through a virtual space. It might be as simple as putting on the headset, and then find yourself in a virtual couch with your friends, and play regular games on a virtual screen, or go around with said friends in a virtual world just hanging out, having fun, maybe playing a bunch of elaborate mini games together.

It kind of boggles my mind why Sony so far hasn't at least tried to release a kind of VR app that more or less seamlessly incorporates your PSN friends or other PSN users into a shared environment, a social VR PSN ecosystem, but I strongly suspect that they are aware of all this (obviously), and that we might see something along those lines in the near future.

Spoiler

This is a *not so* secret PS Home revival begging post

 

[UltimaKilo]

Really cool technology and features in the new controllers, it seems like they will unveil the new PSVR using the same marketing scheme used with PS5, piece by piece
About VR I think that the new headset on PS5 will basically be the right moment to jump on the VR train. The technology has matured a lot, developers now know how to make really cool VR games.
I skipped VR on PS4 because imo the technology was still not ready and with too many limitations. I look forward to the specs of PSVR2 and its games.

Except it hasn’t matured. There are still really big problems facing VR. Refresh rates are paltry and nowhere near the 240hz needed.

FOV is terrible, and there’s no current way to get there without the distortions large FOV created with current tech.

VR is very graphically intensive and we’re probably 5+ years away from having amazing visuals in VR with great FOV, refresh and resolution.

VR is still quite bulky, uncomfortable and heavy. While there are some concepts that look impressive (Pico), none are close to mass production and have some serious drawbacks, usually in the form of FOV and refresh rates.

I love VR for what it can be, and I’m looking forward to the PSVR2, but to call it “mature” is a stretch... it’s still in beta. It will be well into the decade before VR tech gets to where it needs to be.

 

[johntown]

Except it hasn’t matured. There are still really big problems facing VR. Refresh rates are paltry and nowhere near the 240hz needed.

FOV is terrible, and there’s no current way to get there without the distortions large FOV created with current tech.

VR is very graphically intensive and we’re probably 5+ years away from having amazing visuals in VR with great FOV, refresh and resolution.

VR is still quite bulky, uncomfortable and heavy. While there are some concepts that look impressive (Pico), none are close to mass production and have some serious drawbacks, usually in the form of FOV and refresh rates.

I love VR for what it can be, and I’m looking forward to the PSVR2, but to call it “mature” is a stretch... it’s still in beta. It will be well into the decade before VR tech gets to where it needs to be.

You don't need 240hz? While it would be nice 90hz is very comfortable.

I personally don't have any issue with FOV but to each their own.

VR is already there on PC. Half Life Alyx is all I need to say.

Bulky, heavy and uncomfortable are subjective. Some games may be but games like Half Life Alyx are the future of VR. We just need more companies to make AAA titles. PSVR for PS5 will only help improve this. The PS5 is more than capable of running say Resident Evil 7 in VR. That is another fantastic game in VR. I played on original PSVR and it was rough but all it needed was better graphics and refresh which the PS5 one ca provide.

Maybe it was beta for PSVR on PS4 but other places it is maturing. I won't say it is fully mature but it is not beta.

 

[UltimaKilo]

You don't need 240hz? While it would be nice 90hz is very comfortable.

I personally don't have any issue with FOV but to each their own.

VR is already there on PC. Half Life Alyx is all I need to say.

Bulky, heavy and uncomfortable are subjective. Some games may be but games like Half Life Alyx are the future of VR. We just need more companies to make AAA titles. PSVR for PS5 will only help improve this. The PS5 is more than capable of running say Resident Evil 7 in VR. That is another fantastic game in VR. I played on original PSVR and it was rough but all it needed was better graphics and refresh which the PS5 one ca provide.

Maybe it was beta for PSVR on PS4 but other places it is maturing. I won't say it is fully mature but it is not beta.

HLA had great sequences, but it was all hand holding. The game takes place almost exclusively in corridors, has no NPCs to interact with, doesn’t have any jumping, and has the same enemies with zero physics (just bullet sponges). Quite a ways from being considered AAA.

And comfort might be subjective, but every headset is uncomfortable in long sessions. Interesting enough, the PSVR is the most comfortable die to its design not pressing against your face. Nonetheless, 450 grams sitting on your face is not comfortable for anyone.

90 hz is not good enough. Heck, the (fake) 144hz on Index is not good enough and the difference between 90 and 120 is huge.

As for FOV, if you don’t mind looking into a world through a peephole, that’s fine, but the point of VR is to be INSIDE, and that sense of presence only comes when you can look around without restrictions. Even the Pimax at full 170 degrees, is too limiting, especially in vertical FOV. But then, Pimax has their own incredibly frustrating issues.

 

[EverydayBeast]

It’s the new Wii now the expectations are rising soon it will be VR all the time it’s better than anything Microsoft has.

 

[onesvenus]

enthusiasts aren’t only on PC

Do you mean with this that there are enthusiasts who don't have a PC or that they don't only have a PC?

I agree with the latter but strongly disagree with the former: I'm not sure someone who buys a mediocre headset, like the PSVR is now compared to the ones available for PC, can be considered an enthusiast. Those are people really interested in the field and who research a lot before buying something. If you research a lot about VR you don't get to the conclusion that you don't need a PC.

 

[alucard0712_rus]

add VR support to existing games = profit

ordered Quest 2 yesterday for my PC, ready to be blown away.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

ngl I'm hyped for PSVR2. There should also be a couple of new VR games by the time I get a PS5. I just hope Sony doesn't fuck it up and gives us 120 hz.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Do you mean with this that there are enthusiasts who don't have a PC or that they don't only have a PC?

I agree with the latter but strongly disagree with the former: I'm not sure someone who buys a mediocre headset, like the PSVR is now compared to the ones available for PC, can be considered an enthusiast. Those are people really interested in the field and who research a lot before buying something. If you research a lot about VR you don't get to the conclusion that you don't need a PC.

you can be an enthusiast and not own a gaming PC

yes, there are obviously better headsets NOW than a device released in 2016

PS5 VR will be competitive with other headsets on the market in 2022

 

[Romulus]

I'm skeptical of this claim.

VR has a legs problem. Everyone raves about it for the first few hours, then everyone let's it collect dust after the novelty wears off.

We still need a game that people want to put 100 - 1,000+ hours into.

Astrobot and Half Life Alyx aren't killer apps no matter how many times the media says they are.

I'm skeptical of yout claim, especially when VR continues to sell more. Literally Quest 2 is outselling the original by 5x.

There's zero evidence that VR has a novelty problem. The evidence is that there were almost no games up until recently and people are buying VR headsets more than ever. That's indisputable, everything else is agenda based forum science.

I had a Switch for almost a year, I knew a few people that did. Almost none of them used it after Zelda and Galaxy, and they sat around collecting dust. Doesnt mean on the whole that data supports the opposite. Even more so in that case

The statement about Astrobot, Alyx etc is purely an opinion to fuel your agenda against VR too.

 

[onesvenus]

you can be an enthusiast and not own a gaming PC

So those VR enthusiasts you talk about play on a headset launched 5 years ago?
That's not really my definition of someone enthusiast

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

So those VR enthusiasts you talk about play on a headset launched 5 years ago?
That's not really my definition of someone enthusiast

enthusiast isn’t a term for someone that buys every single advancement that is ever released in the market.

 

[johntown]

HLA had great sequences, but it was all hand holding. The game takes place almost exclusively in corridors, has no NPCs to interact with, doesn’t have any jumping, and has the same enemies with zero physics (just bullet sponges). Quite a ways from being considered AAA.

And comfort might be subjective, but every headset is uncomfortable in long sessions. Interesting enough, the PSVR is the most comfortable die to its design not pressing against your face. Nonetheless, 450 grams sitting on your face is not comfortable for anyone.

90 hz is not good enough. Heck, the (fake) 144hz on Index is not good enough and the difference between 90 and 120 is huge.

As for FOV, if you don’t mind looking into a world through a peephole, that’s fine, but the point of VR is to be INSIDE, and that sense of presence only comes when you can look around without restrictions. Even the Pimax at full 170 degrees, is too limiting, especially in vertical FOV. But then, Pimax has their own incredibly frustrating issues.

How do you define AAA? AAA has to has NPC's? AAA is just the quality level of a game and has nothing to do with being able to jump or have an NPC. I think HLA is the first real AAA VR dedicated game.

I will agree with you on the comfort. Long sessions can be uncomfortable and I agree the PSVR is the most comfortable.

I guess we can agree to disagree on this one because I think the difference between 90 and 120 is negligible.

FOV does limit some games and what they can do but it doesn't really bother me that much for the games I have played in VR. The only thing that really annoyed me was Skyrim VR with their adjustable FOV. I had to turn that off but games like HLA and RE7 I felt the FOV was fine.

Are there improvements to be made? Absolutely! I still think it is too a point that I would consider out of beta. I really only considered it out of beta once HLA was released but if you don't consider HLA AAA then I can why you consider VR to still be in beta.

 

[chasimus]

You're misinterpreting my argument. I'm not suggesting PS5 VR will be the peak capability in terms of technical characteristics. I'm suggesting that PS5 VR will achieve a very high benchmark for the lowest total cost of entry, with the most robust lineup of (non-shovelware) games.

This is one area where VR can be more widely adopted. The options you listed require expensive headsets and expensive PCs. I also think that Sony is going to take a more PC friendly approach with PS5 VR. I believe they will sell ALL of their PS5 VR games on PC marketplaces, allow them to be compatible with a variety of headsets, and the only requirement for those folks that prefer the PC and a different headset for the vendor will be to buy the PS5 VR controllers.

So that's all I'm suggesting - Sony will be playing in both the console and PC space, giving consumers the lowest barrier to entry at a very high level of fidelity, while also supporting more headsets in the PC space given how fractured the VR market place is. I don't think Sony cares whether you buy their headset. They DO care that you buy their games. I think this is far more important for their VR initiatives than them porting over PS5 console games to PC, and is probably one way to dramatically improve their market penetration.

So in terms of adoption I think we will see it rise substantially from where it currently sits at less than 5%. And with them supporting PC (which for VR is critical, imho), they will make money on controller sales and games.

My assumption is that Sony's new VR setup, its entire setup, will be PC compatible. There's no way Jim doesn't jump on that opportunity to move the new headset into the PC market. It will definitely be fully optimised for PS5 first and foremost, but everything is indicating that it'll be an adaptable piece of kit: USB-C plugin, inside-out tracking (most likely), wirelessly connectable controllers, etc.

 

[Romulus]

My assumption is that Sony's new VR setup, its entire setup, will be PC compatible. There's no way Jim doesn't jump on that opportunity to move the new headset into the PC market. It will definitely be fully optimised for PS5 first and foremost, but everything is indicating that it'll be an adaptable piece of kit: USB-C plugin, inside-out tracking (most likely), wirelessly connectable controllers, etc.

Never crossed my mind, but sure.

 

[Tygeezy]

HLA had great sequences, but it was all hand holding. The game takes place almost exclusively in corridors, has no NPCs to interact with, doesn’t have any jumping, and has the same enemies with zero physics (just bullet sponges). Quite a ways from being considered AAA.

And comfort might be subjective, but every headset is uncomfortable in long sessions. Interesting enough, the PSVR is the most comfortable die to its design not pressing against your face. Nonetheless, 450 grams sitting on your face is not comfortable for anyone.

90 hz is not good enough. Heck, the (fake) 144hz on Index is not good enough and the difference between 90 and 120 is huge.

As for FOV, if you don’t mind looking into a world through a peephole, that’s fine, but the point of VR is to be INSIDE, and that sense of presence only comes when you can look around without restrictions. Even the Pimax at full 170 degrees, is too limiting, especially in vertical FOV. But then, Pimax has their own incredibly frustrating issues.

Current VR displays are definitely good enough. You get better motion clarity on quest 2 lcd than you do with a crt. That doesn't mean there aren't improvements to be made, but they are definitely "good enough."

One form is already on the market... Just purchase a Valve Index VR headset or a Quest 2 VR headset.

They are superlative CRT-motion-clarity-beating LCDs now, that you can purchase for prices as low as approximately 300 dollars. Both headsets produces pictures far more comfortable and easier on eyes than crappy Real3D cinema 3D glasses (just avoid the rollercoaster apps if you hate the dizzy stuff).

Zero blur, zero ghosting, zero crosstalk, zero double images, perfect CRT motion clarity can be found in those 2020-and-newer VR LCDs.

These even have 6x less motion blur (0.3ms MPRT) than OLED VR headsets (2ms MPRT blurring), such as the original Playstation VR or original Oculus Rift or original HTC Vive.

Yes, in the motion clarity department, these new VR LCDs beat OLED motion resolution by almost an order of magnitude. The blacks aren't as good as CRT yet (though I saw a FALD VR prototype using MicroLED backlights -- local dimming in VR!) but the motion resolution is simply superlative for LCD -- far better than even a 360Hz LCD in sample-and-hold mode.

Part of this is because of Talbot-Plateau's Law, a law of physics effect that bottlenecks OLED pixels severely. To be as good as a CRT, you need really brief flashes (less than 1ms). And you need lots of brightness in those short flashes. Unlike OLED direct pixels which often has difficulty safely reaching 1000nits without burn-in -- an LCD can outsource its light source to a heatsinked/watercooled LED backlight that can flash stadium bright like a CRT electron beam dot (CRTs do over 10,000 nits at the phosphor dot in high-speed video). So, that's why LCD VR has pulled way ahead of OLED VR, in motion resolution now.

And from lab tests, both Index VR LCD and Quest 2 VR LCD have a true real-world measured 0.3ms MPRT -- not manufacturer exaggerated MPRT or GtG numbers (the two different pixel response benchmarks). No GtG heatmap hotspots. No MPRT hotspots. Zero, nada, zilch, none, virtually perfect 256x256 heatmap. Many CRTs have phosphor decay fade longer than 0.3ms! And it really shows -- every CRT user that witnessed 2020-or-newer perfectly crosstalkless LCD VR -- now agrees that an extensively well-engineered LCD can out-do CRT in motion clarity.

They had to spend mondoo engineering money for VR because motion blur is a big headache/dizzy/nausea for a giant IMAX screen strapped to your face. The overkill work finally paid off in some of the cheapest CRT-motion-resolution beating LCDs. To match a Holodeck requires a display that doesn't add extra blurring above-and-beyond natural human vision, so a lot of engineering money is spent on making VR LCDs match closer to real life.

Indirectly I had a hand on steering the VR market in reducing motion blur -- see How Blur Busters Convinced Oculus Rift To Go Low Persistence. That was a long time ago -- back in the Kickstarter days where the Oculus Kickstarter had access to TestUFO six months before TestUFO launched publicly almost a decade ago!

 

[RayHell]

The Quest 2 can run games natively OR wirelessly from a PC.

This is an unofficial and unsupported way. You have to connect through a virtual desktop go connect wirelessly to a PC.
The official way is still with a cable.

 

[Tygeezy]

This is an unofficial and unsupported way. You have to connect through a virtual desktop go connect wirelessly to a PC.
The official way is still with a cable.

Why does it matter whether it's official or not? The fact of the matter is you can and it's easy. Just purchase Virtual Desktop on the oculus store and away you go.

 

[TriSuit666]

Quest 2 has PS5 hardware visuals powering it? No...it needs to be linked to a high end PC. That's kind of my point.

And Quest 2 will be 2 years old by the time PS5 VR comes out. I expect improvements in 2 years

No cable required with Virtual Desktop.

 

[Brigandier]

I feel that this headset is going to be a better spec but a higher price than most people think.

I expect it to be the best overall VR experience on the market due to the main reason to buy a piece of hardware.... Games.

Sony seem like they've really invested and believe in VR, I am really looking forward to it and can't wait to see some big 1st party games for it.

 

[TriSuit666]

This is an unofficial and unsupported way. You have to connect through a virtual desktop go connect wirelessly to a PC.
The official way is still with a cable.

Virtual Desktop is officially supported through the Quest App Store these days.

It's already been proven maaannnnny many many times that you don't need a cable as a good router is more than capable of providing the throughput.

 

[ultrazilla]

I don't care about ANY of it if it has more than one FUCKING cord included for it. Nah, I ain't doing that shit again.