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Dirt 5 | 2.00 Patch Comparison PS5 Vs Xbox Series X/S

geordiemp

Member
It's the same thing for CPUs and GPUs, clock gating has got nothing to do with allowing for variable or higher clock speeds. They are two different concepts, as I have backed up with many different sources. Also, the shader arrays are not turned off, as it's fine clock gating, the power savings go way finer then that, to the register level.

The XSX is clocked lower then the PS5 not due to it missing any features that allow for higher clock speeds, or that the GPU can't run at those frequencies, but because it is constrained by the thermal and power limits of the consoles design. A 52 CU GPU clocked at the frequency of the PS5 GPU will draw way more power and require a larger cooling system. It's the same reason you are not seeing the PS5 pull frequencies in excess of 2.6Ghz, the GPU can likely do it, but it will blow past the allowed power limits and thermal dissipation of its cooler.

The XSX is a larger GPU then the RX 5700 XT running at similar frequencies but drawing 100w less under load. How do you think that was achieved? By perhaps having the RDNA2 architectural changes that AMD mentioned (such as the clock gating) that allows for greater than 50% performance-per-watt gains?

You cant compare against RDNA1 for starters. XSX die is 20 % bigger than ps5 so your way out estimate is not true. 22 % diff in frequencies but its not linear vs power. If your argument were true XSX would still be 2.0 Ghz or thereabouts, not 1.8 and it would be variable to switch around power where its needed.

I was being sarcastic about shader arrays turned off, that was a joke. Registers and cache are shared in a shader array, so the parallel use if very different to a CPU.
 
All I can tell you is that then probably you were not around here few months back then when every thread was derailed about ps5 with bulkshit fud like downclocking to 8tf etc... non stop . I can even name the 10 users here but I won't. They were minority but they dominated every thread about ps5 and how weak it is
Was this some sort of alternate reality where there were more Xbox fans than PlayStation? PS fans aren't some sort of discriminated against minority. Looking at that PS5/Xbox analysis thread there are TONS of Sony fans either making fun of the Xbox, saying its composed of server parts, has no games yadda yadda, or cheering the PlayStation on. Again PS fans are the MAJORITY of people both on this board and on the planet. Sony sells more consoles, games, and has more total fans worldwide. I am surprised you even know the Xbox exists. It is a non factor when it comes to your personal enjoyment of the PS5.
 
Was this some sort of alternate reality where there were more Xbox fans than PlayStation? PS fans aren't some sort of discriminated against minority. Looking at that PS5/Xbox analysis thread there are TONS of Sony fans either making fun of the Xbox, saying its composed of server parts, has no games yadda yadda, or cheering the PlayStation on. Again PS fans are the MAJORITY of people both on this board and on the planet. Sony sells more consoles, games, and has more total fans worldwide. I am surprised you even know the Xbox exists. It is a non factor when it comes to your personal enjoyment of the PS5.
Again u r coming to after November. We had one full year of few xbox fans derailing every single ps5 thread with bullshit and downclocking comments and spreading lies to make it seem weak. At some point they even said ps5 has no hardware RT etc... every week there was a new fake info about ps5 being pushed by them from overheating to downclocking to no RT etc...
 
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Was this some sort of alternate reality where there were more Xbox fans than PlayStation? PS fans aren't some sort of discriminated against minority.

I know what your saying and I agree that there's more PlayStation fans than Xbox fans in the world. In places like N4G and Gaf the Xbox fanbase is a minority.

However with that said being a minority doesn't mean that they won't lash out which is what we've seen with all the FUD that was being generated.

I know that PlayStation fans created FUD on Xbox but Xbox fans did the same thing about the PS5. Neither was right to do it though and I'm pretty sure almost everyone on this site has participated in it in some way.

I'm not trying to appear neutral because of do prefer PlayStation over Xbox. But let's not pretend that both sides didn't participate in spreading misinformation here. It doesn't matter if they are a minority or not.

et sint in culpa
 

clintar

Member
But they didn't, it's like you don't have eyes.

Folliage matches and geometry appear to match with the untrained eye, textures certainly do not, and there's no indication yet of the performance hit, if there is one, which with increased details you'd imagine there would be.

This?



Lighting and reflections far better so didn't notice the sand, although now you've pointed it out, it's clearly far better on PS5 also. Series X seems to have less tessellation, I guess as there are less rocks on the puddle on the left hand side (although some of these appear to be there just not lit properly, some are also clearly missing), AF also noticeably worse still.

Not even sure where you are looking to claim it's better on series x

I've highlight some areas where the difference is stark.



I suspect it's mostly down to the inferior lighting on Series X, but the front highlighted section is not as detailed on series x and appears flat, maybe a lack of bump mapping and lower tessellation being applied. Probs need NX Gamer to throw his expertise at it, the guy that did this video, usually does it first which is good, but doesn't really know what he's talking about and doesn't line up his shots so they are like for like, each side by side is slightly offset from the one next to it.
No, I meant this bit:
StpwQ9E.jpg

but it might be time of day differences. I don't know if that is sand or what.
 
You cant compare against RDNA1 for starters. XSX die is 20 % bigger than ps5 so your way out estimate is not true. 22 % diff in frequencies but its not linear vs power. If your argument were true XSX would still be 2.0 Ghz or thereabouts, not 1.8 and it would be variable to switch around power where its needed.

I was being sarcastic about shader arrays turned off, that was a joke. Registers and cache are shared in a shader array, so the parallel use if very different to a CPU.

Edit: I was answering you but lost 90% of my message, explaining why I disagree with you. If I'll have time, I will rewrite my message.
 
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Was this some sort of alternate reality where there were more Xbox fans than PlayStation? PS fans aren't some sort of discriminated against minority. Looking at that PS5/Xbox analysis thread there are TONS of Sony fans either making fun of the Xbox, saying its composed of server parts, has no games yadda yadda, or cheering the PlayStation on. Again PS fans are the MAJORITY of people both on this board and on the planet. Sony sells more consoles, games, and has more total fans worldwide. I am surprised you even know the Xbox exists. It is a non factor when it comes to your personal enjoyment of the PS5.
Bro. BRO !!

You clearly were not present on GAF after Road to PS5 dropped. Let me fill you in. There was constant shitposting and thread derails taking place from Xbox fans regarding the confirmed 10TF power figure of the PS5 vs Series X.
I created a thread for this very reason that touched on the constant trolling and guess what happened to that? It got trolled to hell and back by Xbox fans as well. It was relentless and fucked up this forum because no real discussions could be had without the constant trolling even on matters not linked directly to the custom hardware on these consoles.

My point is Xbox fans love to play the victims and do so quite often especially on this forum. It tomorrow it is revealed that PS5 has no hardware ray tracing or is actually a 7TF console, can you guess what would be the state of this forum? At one stage saying PS5 is 9TF could have gotten you a ban. Things got that bad so both sets of fans can be equally as bad.

Again u r coming to after November. We had one full year of few xbox fans derailing every single ps5 thread with bullshit and downclocking comments and spreading lies to make it seem weak. At some point they even said ps5 has no hardware RT etc... every week there was a new fake info about ps5 being pushed by them from overheating to downclocking to no RT etc...
Yep. I created a thread about this just shortly after Road to PS5 dropped to seek to address the issue or at least understand why people were just trolling non-stop to the point where no discussions could be had. I got mocked in my own thread and it got trolled to hell as well.
 
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retsof624

Member
Bro. BRO !!

You clearly were not present on GAF after Road to PS5 dropped. Let me fill you in. There was constant shitposting and thread derails taking place from Xbox fans regarding the confirmed 10TF power figure of the PS5 vs Series X.
I created a thread for this very reason that touched on the constant trolling and guess what happened to that? It got trolled to hell and back by Xbox fans as well. It was relentless and fucked up this forum because no real discussions could be had without the constant trolling even on matters not linked directly to the custom hardware on these consoles.

My point is Xbox fans love to play the victims and do so quite often especially on this forum. It tomorrow it is revealed that PS5 has no hardware ray tracing or is actually a 7TF console, can you guess what would be the state of this forum? At one stage saying PS5 is 9TF could have gotten you a ban. Things got that bad so both sets of fans can be equally as bad.


Yep. I created a thread about this just shortly after Road to PS5 dropped to seek to address the issue or at least understand why people were just trolling non-stop to the point where no discussions could be had. I got mocked in my own thread and it got trolled to hell as well.
like a raccoon and a opossum fighting in a dumpster
 

HoofHearted

Member
I'd put my money on the possum.
Possums are mean MFers.

Though I get what you and others are saying about what happened earlier this year (I joined in November), there still seems to be a lot of shit posting both ways lately (threads about this game in particular are a prime recent example).

There are some reasonable responses with actual factual data backing up some of the claims here - and there are other claims that just make me ponder “WTHF is he getting this crap from and does he really believe it?”

All said and done - there is no “win” on either console with respect to general console wars - nor (at least IMHO) any real and true solid evidence (yet) that one console is outperforming the other.

I’ve seen and played games on so many platforms I honestly don’t see the point in all the chatter. But it’s certainly something to read at least for comedic purposes until some decent games that truly push the boundaries of these consoles...

What truly makes me sad about this latest generation is that there’s this constant push to compare individual screenshots blown up 800%, resolution/pixel counting, and nitpicks over minor FPS drops during specific scenes lasting maybe 5-10 seconds in a game that delivers much more. I’m fairly certain the developers could care less about these specific details because there are much broader concerns with respect to creating a delivering a game ....

Gaming is so much more... yet there’s so much arguing over what amounts to inconsequential details to the end product and vision the development team is trying to create and deliver.
 

Bogroll

Likes moldy games
But they didn't, it's like you don't have eyes.

Folliage matches and geometry appear to match with the untrained eye, textures certainly do not, and there's no indication yet of the performance hit, if there is one, which with increased details you'd imagine there would be.

This?



Lighting and reflections far better so didn't notice the sand, although now you've pointed it out, it's clearly far better on PS5 also. Series X seems to have less tessellation, I guess as there are less rocks on the puddle on the left hand side (although some of these appear to be there just not lit properly, some are also clearly missing), AF also noticeably worse still.

Not even sure where you are looking to claim it's better on series x

I've highlight some areas where the difference is stark.



I suspect it's mostly down to the inferior lighting on Series X, but the front highlighted section is not as detailed on series x and appears flat, maybe a lack of bump mapping and lower tessellation being applied. Probs need NX Gamer to throw his expertise at it, the guy that did this video, usually does it first which is good, but doesn't really know what he's talking about and doesn't line up his shots so they are like for like, each side by side is slightly offset from the one next to it.

I can tell you now this is a load of bollocks. This chap (not the poster the video guy) is playing us, maybe he won't get as many clicks if PS5 don't beat Xbox
I'm not saying its better than PS5 but SX is a lot better than this scene. I will be uploading a pic.
Anybody have any clue why I can't upload a image. Just keeps saying upload failed.
 

Fredrik

Member
You actually think these guys own a PS5?
No idea but lots of others have one, plus the game. There really is no reason to disect a youtube video to see if the PS5 version have car reflections or if the performance has taken a hit from having more details etc, everything would be seen within minutes of starting the game. The only thing we can’t easily check ourselves is a dynamic resolution.
 
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Fredrik

Member
What truly makes me sad about this latest generation is that there’s this constant push to compare individual screenshots blown up 800%, resolution/pixel counting, and nitpicks over minor FPS drops during specific scenes lasting maybe 5-10 seconds in a game that delivers much more. I’m fairly certain the developers could care less about these specific details because there are much broader concerns with respect to creating a delivering a game ....
Agreed. At this point it’s time to close youtube and start the game instead. There is no way any difference showed here can be seen during gameplay unless you stop and lose the race. That’s the harsh reality.

And if someone with a PS5 could start the game we would know if the fps drops complaint are even valid as well.

There are many unnecessary discussions going on here.

I can confirm that it runs great and looks good on XSX in the 60fps modes at least, anyone who like arcade rally can safely buy that version now (it’s even on sale).
 

dcmk7

Banned
Only Gears 5 and Gears Tactics do so far, Dirt 5 does on PC but not on Xbox, NXGamer said he "thought" it did but the AF reduction and scenery reduction are in fact lower settings nothing to do with VRS, VRS doesn't remove assets.
How about reading the Codemasters technical lead interview first before writing unsubstantiated claims.
 

HoofHearted

Member
A simple link to this interview / video would end this miserable conversation... not sure why there’s an argument about if this game uses VRS anyway?
 

HoofHearted

Member
How about you find an article where Codemasters deny the use of VRS in the game?
Wow... seriously?

First you say read the technical interview (indicating that Codemasters confirmed VRS on XSX), then you come back and say find an article that says they deny using it?

Which is it? Don‘t sit on the fence throwing crap...
 

oldergamer

Member
A simple link to this interview / video would end this miserable conversation... not sure why there’s an argument about if this game uses VRS anyway?
They are using VRS, I forget which developer interview it was. I was arguing with a few people on here that were blaming how post patch version looked where it used the wrong assets as a reason why it looked that way. That was pure fud of course and they had no way of telling it was being used or knowing it was impacting anything.
 

HoofHearted

Member
They are using VRS, I forget which developer interview it was. I was arguing with a few people on here that were blaming how post patch version looked where it used the wrong assets as a reason why it looked that way. That was pure fud of course and they had no way of telling it was being used or knowing it was impacting anything.

I wouldn’t be surprised.. though I just spent about 10 minutes searching for actual confirmation specifically for this game to link in this conversation and I can’t find it. The closest thing I can find is the XSX “full” RDNA2 article noting VRS capabilities but it doesn’t explicitly state the game has it (at least at the time of the article).

Maybe it’s in the patch notes? Who knows.
 

dcmk7

Banned
Wow... seriously?

First you say read the technical interview (indicating that Codemasters confirmed VRS on XSX), then you come back and say find an article that says they deny using it?

Which is it? Don‘t sit on the fence throwing crap...

How about this.. took two seconds Google by the way.

Interview with Codemasters technical lead

Note the comment about RDNA2 features turned upto 11.

Season 5 Episode 6 GIF by Living Single
 
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HoofHearted

Member
How about this.. took two seconds Google by the way.

Interview with Codemasters technical lead

Note the comment about RDNA2 features turned upto 11.

Season 5 Episode 6 GIF by Living Single

That wasn’t too hard was it?

That being said... the article you quoted doesn’t reference VRS at all for DIrT5.

It does reference the increased performance of the CPU (with SMT) and SSD.

The “RDNA2“ quote you’re referencing in the article? Discussing photo mode...

“But Dirt 5 is also a very social experience. I can’t wait to see the beautiful screenshots users are going to post on Xbox and social media, using the new share button on the Series X controller, captured using our fantastic Photo Mode – I’m really looking forward to all the pictures people will take of lightning! These shots are going to look incredible on Series X, its RDNA 2 GPU is going to enable us to turn all the features up to 11 – and there are some extremely talented game photographers out there, I’ll be keeping an eye out!”

So... still looking for actual confirmation then...
 

dcmk7

Banned
That wasn’t too hard was it?

That being said... the article you quoted doesn’t reference VRS at all for DIrT5.

It does reference the increased performance of the CPU (with SMT) and SSD.

The “RDNA2“ quote you’re referencing in the article? Discussing photo mode...

“But Dirt 5 is also a very social experience. I can’t wait to see the beautiful screenshots users are going to post on Xbox and social media, using the new share button on the Series X controller, captured using our fantastic Photo Mode – I’m really looking forward to all the pictures people will take of lightning! These shots are going to look incredible on Series X, its RDNA 2 GPU is going to enable us to turn all the features up to 11 – and there are some extremely talented game photographers out there, I’ll be keeping an eye out!”

So... still looking for actual confirmation then...

VRS is a part of RDNA2.

"It enables us to turn ALL the features up to 11". You believe that is limited to a photo mode? :messenger_smirking:

I feel you're being deliberately obtuse now.
 

Zathalus

Member
You cant compare against RDNA1 for starters. XSX die is 20 % bigger than ps5 so your way out estimate is not true. 22 % diff in frequencies but its not linear vs power. If your argument were true XSX would still be 2.0 Ghz or thereabouts, not 1.8 and it would be variable to switch around power where its needed.

I was being sarcastic about shader arrays turned off, that was a joke. Registers and cache are shared in a shader array, so the parallel use if very different to a CPU.
Oh, but I can compare it to RDNA1, AMD do that themselves when they talk about performance-per-watt, which is what fine clock gating is all about. A 52 CU RDNA1 GPU at 1825Mhz is not going to be drawing 130w when all is said and done, to get that kind of power efficiency the GPU requires the various power savings enhancements that come along with fine clock gating (as well as the other improvements they mention). AMD uses the term when talking about the generational leap in power savings, not when discussing the new higher frequency. Sure, having the GPU consume less power helps with pushing higher clock speeds, but that mostly comes from the various design improvements in the GPU itself.

The XSX die is only 20% bigger is true, but that is the entire SOC, so that includes the CPU, IO, memory controllers, GPU, and various other features. The GPU difference between the two should be larger than just that, judging from how CU scales with die area it would be closer to a 30% larger GPU. The XSX has a 30% larger GPU that is clocked 22% lower (with no variable frequency scaling to assist with power savings to boot) and is drawing roughly the same amount of power then the PS5 GPU, would indicate to me very, very close performance-per-watt savings.

It's all academic anyhow, pervasive fine clock gating is not going to explain why the PS5 is matching or exceeding the XSX, that is on the higher GPU frequency and the various Sony specific enchantments to the GPU. Like cache scrubbers, who knows what kind of IPC gains occur over regular RDNA2 due to that?
 
What truly makes me sad about this latest generation is that there’s this constant push to compare individual screenshots blown up 800%, resolution/pixel counting, and nitpicks over minor FPS drops during specific scenes lasting maybe 5-10 seconds in a game that delivers much more. I’m fairly certain the developers could care less about these specific details because there are much broader concerns with respect to creating a delivering a game
I think that adding the zoom in to highlight a difference in a technical conversation is perfect (be it resolution, texture filtering, texture resolution, some lighting/shading difference, etc.).

Now acting like running a game at 59.97 vs running a game at 59.93fps, or 1600p vs 1440p (3210p vs 1800p) in select areas because of dynamic resolutions makes a practical difference is pushing it, we are in audiophile territory here.

Now the issue could have been settled there, OK there are "technical wins here and there, but for all intents and purposes power should not be the factor when choosing your next gen console", which was my position before we had all the details... However, we are coming out of 6 to 9 months of xbox fans telling us that the ps5 would be destroyed, that the difference was actually bigger, the ps5 would be barely able to run games at all, etc.

So equal (or a borderline win) for the ps5 is a blow at the whole xbox messaging around the seriex. A small meaningless win for the seriex over the ps5 is also a loss for the seriex, whoever made claims about.the series X full 4k 60 vs sub 4k 30, no RT, or 4k vs 1440p against the ps5 should crawl back in their cave and play some gamepass games while they reflect... And more importantly, they should know to not give advice to people.

Everything in the current situation is a win for the PS5 🥳.
The consoles perform more or less the same (that has never been seen to that level).
Sony studios are poised to deliver amazing games over the next year (again)
MS bought like a million studios, I assume that some of these will eventually deliver (but I would not bet on that given how MS has driven their studios to the ground before).
MS has gamepass, I see it as a borderline scam, but some think that this is Phil's way of turning water into wine or something of that nature.

The technical advantage of the ps5 lies in asset streaming (SSD), which is supposed to lower the RAM requirements by lowering the amount of objects stored in active memory at any given time, on a 16gb machine in 2020 that has good chances of allowing for higher resolution textures and/or higher polygon counts on models.... Again,will it make a discernable difference?
 
What a odd take, do you think Netflix is a scam as well?
I don't play games the same way I watch movies and TV shows... Also, stop for a minute and count how much you will have spent on gamepass + the games you buy anyway after 5 years.

Now make a list of the games you actually played in the gamepass library (not just launched)

Now calculate how much it would have cost you to buy what you really wanted.

If you mainly play a small number of games in a year gamepass is a total waste of money (I usually spend close to a month, sometimes more in a game I like), especially if you get indie / discounted games from time to time.... Also, your favorite games may be taken out of gamepass at anytime, so you may end up having to buy them anyway.
 

Zathalus

Member
I don't play games the same way I watch movies and TV shows... Also, stop for a minute and count how much you will have spent on gamepass + the games you buy anyway after 5 years.

Now make a list of the games you actually played in the gamepass library (not just launched)

Now calculate how much it would have cost you to buy what you really wanted.

If you mainly play a small number of games in a year gamepass is a total waste of money (I usually spend close to a month, sometimes more in a game I like), especially if you get indie / discounted games from time to time.... Also, your favorite games may be taken out of gamepass at anytime, so you may end up having to buy them anyway.
$120 per year, so the price of two to three games. I have certainly played more than that over the past year.
 

DJ12

Member
“But Dirt 5 is also a very social experience. I can’t wait to see the beautiful screenshots users are going to post on Xbox and social media, using the new share button on the Series X controller, captured using our fantastic Photo Mode – I’m really looking forward to all the pictures people will take of lightning! These shots are going to look incredible on Series X, its RDNA 2 GPU is going to enable us to turn all the features up to 11 – and there are some extremely talented game photographers out there, I’ll be keeping an eye out!”
Who knew Codemasters dial went up to 12 for RDNA "1.5"
 
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