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[SlicedBread3]

Yeah I think people are missing the point of the article.

It's not "Oh my god these people are being asked to work Saturdays, this is madness" It's "Hey remember that time CDProjektRed got on their soapbox and said they wouldn't be enforcing overtime... Well about that"

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

WOW just WOW. I guess you never had to live under communism.
Holodomor, Great Chinese Famine, Cambodian genocide and many more were totally capitalism fault. That totally wasn't true communism right?

I'm not Communist. When did I mention communism as a reasonable alternative? Also are we to ignore the 40,000 dying daily to malnutrition in mainly capitalist countries?

 

[cormack12]

Yeah I think people are missing the point of the article.

It's not "Oh my god these people are being asked to work Saturdays, this is madness" It's "Hey remember that time CDProjektRed got on their soapbox and said they wouldn't be enforcing overtime... Well about that"

They made those commitments in a different world than today. They should be held to them when we do not have a global pandemic going on. Where we are now was unprecedented at the time and everyone has had to make sacrifices/work differently or longer to keep the engines ticking over.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

No. Any position that can have numbers thrown at it like menial labour, low responsibility or low skilled workers can be covered with capital writeoff on short term contractors.

The positions that have to crunch are going to be your long time skilled workers/talented staff who know the project inside out. You won't get fresh faced graduates to replace them because they don't have the experience. You can't pull in contractors because it would take months, possibly even years to get them familiar enough to make broad changes to an established code base without thorough peer reviews which creates a bigger overhead. Usually if one of these people have a new offer mid-project, then the suits will make a counter offer that makes it worth staying. It's simple workplace markets.

Ironically all this talk about unions will only protect those obvious crying members of staff who have gone to Jason. Probably those who contribute the bare minimum in a day, stroll in at 930 with a latte and are grabbing their coat at 4:30 while the rest are crushing their nuts. You ask anyone who work hard how they feel about Unions protecting staff who are incompetent or who should be fired.

You like overtime pay. Thank unions
You like holidays. Thank unions.
You like minimum wage. Thank unions.
You like child labor laws. Thank unions
You like that your employer can't lock you inside your workplace during working hours. Thank unions.
TUIF
Thank unions it's Friday

 

[SlicedBread3]

They made those commitments in a different world than today. They should be held to them when we do not have a global pandemic going on. Where we are now was unprecedented at the time and everyone has had to make sacrifices/work differently or longer to keep the engines ticking over.

Yeah I'm not saying I agree with the article. I'm just saying, hate on it for the right reasons.

 

[cormack12]

You like overtime pay. Thank unions
You like holidays. Thank unions.
You like minimum wage. Thank unions.
You like child labor laws. Thank unions
You like that your employer can't lock you inside your workplace during working hours. Thank unions.
TUIF
Thank unions it's Friday

Have you been invovled in an actual union dispute? You are vastly over estimating their power to instigate or initiate change. Believe me. They are just a veneer over compromises which have already been set as acceptable.

 

[B-universe]

Yeah kill them for the millions murdered to make a buck. They ain't gonna give it up without a fight. If you take issue with any of the facts in my post then please point them out and start a dialogue. War is coming. America the great beacon of capitalism is burning and the cause is late stage capitalism.

Lunatic posts, comprised of lunatic falsehoods and lunatic appeals to violence.
Lunatic manure indeed.

Your repeated appeals to have people killed will not go unnoticed. Hopefully, a federal agency or two will pay you a visit.

Please make sure you have a fresh cup of tea and some butter biscuits on hand. And don't wear a pyjama!

 

[martino]

meanwhile ....

 

[kuncol02]

I'm not Communist. When did I mention communism as a reasonable alternative? Also are we to ignore the 40,000 dying daily to malnutrition in mainly capitalist countries?

That's easy. You said you want to kill rich. That's something only communist would say. There is no other alternative to capitalism and communism. Rest of systems are just capitalism or communism with extra steps. Unless you want to go back to absolute monarchy with king owning everything.

 

[II_JumPeR_I]

Is this a era topic here?
A lot of you act like that working overtime will kill you..

They get paid aswell... i dont see the issue here...

 

[Bogey]

I like how gaming forums give them shit for introducing crunch - while at the same time giving them shit a while ago when they announced a delay. Sorry, you can't have both.

Imho, crunch sucks, and they should be critisized for that. I would be entirely fine with another delay, though.

 

[cormack12]

Imho, crunch sucks, and they should be critisized for that. I would be entirely fine with another delay, though.

The game has been certified for release I think in its current state. This is for the day one patch to fix the bugs and other issues they deem significant enough to warrant a fix

 

[Soodanim]

On the contrary. It's the best system mankind has ever devised. It has produced the freest, wealthiest societies ever known to mankind. People all over the world flee non-capitalist countries and try to get into capitalist countries, not the other way around.

In fact, it is the only moral system because it's the only system based on voluntary win-win transactions. It is precisely when it fails to live up to that core intrinsic principle that it fails.

Last, but least, the entire videogame industry is a product of capitalism.
Videogames wouldn't exist without capitalism. The hardware wouldn't exist, the software wouldn't exist, studios wouldn't exist, the consumer base wouldn't exist, the infrastructure wouldn't exist.



There's also the principled defence of individual rights, the right to govern one's professional life as one wishes, according to one's values, and not the values of someone else.



That's how you would describe working an additional 8 days for the next two months? Really?



I come back to this point.

That decision is not for you to make. It is for each individual developer to make, no matter how noble, how wise, how sensitive, how self-evident you may think your injunctions are.



I alone get to decide how I conduct my professional life. I don't recall CDPR developers giving you a call and asking for advice. They're adults, they're though guys and gals, they can make decisions, thank you.



They're certainly entitled to want that for their lives. It is in fact their right to want that. Just as it is CDPR's right to want the best for the studio. It's almost as though for some management has no rights. Just like devs have the right to look out for their best interests, management has the right to look out for their best interests.



To keep things in perspective, it looks like what we're talking here is 8 more days in the next two months.



You find unacceptable?
Opt out of the game then.

Developers, no one else, is bound by your own personal opinions on anything until you persuade them of the merits of your position. And since your effort in that department is rather lacking, I don't see too many people changing their minds over your post.

If you want to spend 6/7ths of your week working, go ahead. You don’t need to reply to my every word with a demonstration of how far you can stick your tongue up the collective arsehole of management everywhere by trying to tell me I’m enforcing my will upon people like I’ve got some superpower I didn’t know I had while simultaneously misunderstanding what I was actually referring to in my post, which was the people who bragged about long hours for years.

 

[Shmunter]

I like how gaming forums give them shit for introducing crunch - while at the same time giving them shit a while ago when they announced a delay. Sorry, you can't have both.

Imho, crunch sucks, and they should be critisized for that. I would be entirely fine with another delay, though.

Human nature means people slack when there is plenty of time and work hard when time is short. Nothing will ever change it.

 

[B-universe]

Yes, CDPR are forcing people to work for them.
At point blank range.

It's not like staff is comprised of functioning adults, capable of making decisions. No.

Didn't you hear? Badowski himself is going from house to house after midnight and kidnaping children, who he then force-teaches to code in C++.He whips and abuses them into coding.

This thread provides ample examples of how when you don't have an argument you often post memes or sometimes even declare you lust for having other people killed.

If you want to spend 6/7ths of your week working, go ahead.

Thanks for your permission.

For a second I thought CDPR employees required your written permission, should they, god forbid, voluntarily decide to crunch, which, by the way, is what Badowski claims the vast majority of employees have settled upon.

You don’t need to reply to my every word

Thanks for the Chicago Manual of Style piece of advice, but I am aware that I don't have to. But I want to.

Therefore I shall.

with a demonstration of how far you can stick your tongue up the collective arsehole of management

Please, no references to your sexual preferences. This is neither the place nor the time to go into great detail about what tickles your fancy.

everywhere by trying to tell me I’m enforcing my will upon people like I’ve got some superpower I didn’t know I had

No, you don't have the power, thank goodness, but if anyone chimes in with the position that crunch should be outlawed or that voluntary relationships between employer and employee should not be ruled by their uncoerced agreed upon will but instead by some notion of what a balanced life would supposedly look like you are ultimately lending intellectual support to the use of force against developer's sovereignty to manage their professional lives at their discretion.

 

[Mista]

From the title I immediately knew its a Jason Schcunt related news

It happens. Does it mean its alright? no. But is it sometimes necessary? yes.

I work six days a week and nobody give's a toss

Ssshhhhh. I work 12 hours everyday but hey, crunch is bad only when they care.

 

[martino]

Yes, CDPR is forcing people to work for them.

my tease was not related to CDPR context.
and judging by how you understood and justify things, let's just agree to disagree on this
in case of CDPR 6 days late in the dev is still better than full crunch for month.
but a world where this is not needed is possible if you can you look beyond existing domination systems in place and your voluntary servitude to them.

 

[Sentenza]

From the title I immediately knew its a Jason Schcunt related news

It happens. Does it mean its alright? no. But is it sometimes necessary? yes.

Ssshhhhh. I work 12 hours everyday but hey, crunch is bad only when they care.

Fuck it. I'm working six days a week for the last few years since I started managing my own boxing gym and I still consider it vacation time, compared to some jobs I had in the past.
I remember working as a bartender in a popular pub here in Milan and when the Christmas period came (note: by "Christmas period" I mean the full TWO MONTHS before the holiday) we started working 7 days out of 7 by default.

But no, bleeding hearts are throwing a fucking tantrum because software developers with one of the best paid jobs in Poland are working six extra days over a period of six weeks and taking a massive earning bonus on top of their ordinary salary + paid overwork.

 

[Soodanim]

Yes, CDPR is forcing people to work for them.
At point blank range.

It's not like staff is comprised of functioning adults, capable of making decisions. No.

Didn't you hear? Badowski himself is going from house to house after midnight and kidnaping children, who he then force-teaches to code in C++.He whips and abuses them into coding.

This thread provides ample examples of how when you don't have an argument you often post memes or sometimes even declare you lust for having other people killed.



Thanks for your permission.

For a second I thought CDPR employees required your written permission, should they, god forbid, voluntarily decide to crunch, which, by the way, is what Badowski claims the vast majority of employees have settled upon.



Thanks for the Chicago Manual of Style piece of advice, but I am aware that I don't have to. But I want to.

Therefore I shall.



Please, no references to your sexual preferences. This is neither the place nor the time to go into great detail about what tickles your fancy.



No, you don't have the power, thank goodness, but if anyone chimes in with the position that crunch should be outlawed or that voluntary relationships between employer and employee should not be ruled by their uncoerced agreed upon will but instead by some notion of what a balanced life would supposedly look like you are ultimately lending intellectual support to the use of force against developer's sovereignty to manage their professional lives at their discretion.

I’m no longer sure if you actually read my original post, but congrats on making arguments to counter things I didn’t say.

 

[Mista]

Fuck it. I'm working six days a week for the last few years since I started managing my own boxing gym and I still consider it vacation time, compared to some jobs I had in the past.
I remember working as a bartender in a popular pub here in Milan and when the Christmas period came (note: by "Christmas period" I mean the full TWO MONTHS before the holiday) we started working 7 days out of 7 by default.

But no, bleeding hearts are throwing a fucking tantrum because software developers with one of the best paid jobs in Poland are working six extra days over a period of six weeks and taking a massive earning bonus on top of their ordinary salary + paid overwork.

Adorable isn't it? I fucking fix planes for 12 hours everyday with random days off

Never said shit and nobody also said "uuhmmm excuse me but this crunch is bad pls change"

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

Have you been invovled in an actual union dispute? You are vastly over estimating their power to instigate or initiate change. Believe me. They are just a veneer over compromises which have already been set as acceptable.

All those things I mentioned are changes made by unions. The only people oh hear saying negatives about them are company men.

Lunatic posts, comprised of lunatic falsehoods and lunatic appeals to violence.
Lunatic manure indeed.

Your repeated appeals to have people killed will not go unnoticed. Hopefully, a federal agency or two will pay you a visit.

Please make sure you have a fresh cup of tea and some butter biscuits on hand. And don't wear a pyjama!

I don't fear my or any other government, and you shouldn't either.

That's easy. You said you want to kill rich. That's something only communist would say. There is no other alternative to capitalism and communism. Rest of systems are just capitalism or communism with extra steps. Unless you want to go back to absolute monarchy with king owning everything.

My big brain can see we live in a totally different world with different technology then we did hundreds of years ago when those shit systems were thought up.

 

[IShowUBasics]

Thats what happens when 50% of your employees are token hires that have no idea about developing games. The other 50% will have to work overtime for the work the others arent doing. Thats the same in every western gamestudio. They make deadline plans with the total amount of people in mind but in fact only half of them are doing their work. Thats why every western game gets crunch or delays these days.

 

[thief183]

Btw is everyone missing the fact that CDPR will be sharing 10% of the profits with the employes?

I'll cruch 6 days a week for 6 weeks no problems if I get paid... I work way more for way less right now....

 

[John2290]

Why not make it a clean seven? This is half arsed crunch.

 

[kuncol02]

All those things I mentioned are changes made by unions. The only people oh hear saying negatives about them are company men.

I don't fear my or any other government, and you shouldn't either.

My big brain can see we live in a totally different world with different technology then we did hundreds of years ago when those shit systems were thought up.

So tell me what is your fucking dreamed economic system which is totally not fucking communism, require killing of rich and is not capitalism?

 

[cormack12]

All those things I mentioned are changes made by unions. The only people oh hear saying negatives about them are company men.

Never mind bro, read the rest of your posts, keep living in the bygone era. You're not equipped for this discussion and I'm not wasting time on you.

 

[DarkArterialGore]

I've no problem with an RPG dev like CD Projekt that only releases a new game every 5 years having to crunch at the end but I'd be pissed having to crunch constantly working on a shit yearly sports game like Fifa or Madden though so I'd tell EA management to get fucked.

 

[VinnyMac]

Boo hoo you work 6 days a week making VIDEO GAMES in a comfy office chair. I get you having a life but let's be real here.The game is literally shit or not gonna sale millions of copies based solely on their work with witcher 3. Working 6 days in the video game industry vs say 6 days in a factory BIG difference. Im currently on an 84 hr schedule. In a factory.

 

[quest]

Is 6 days weeks for 6 weeks really crunch. I thought crunch was 7 days a week for months at a time. I can't imagine anyone who has worked in any IT job has not done something similar for a go live. I read the title and figured mandated 80 hour work weeks not 1 extra day for 6 weeks lol. I'll work an extra day for 6 weeks for a cut of that cyberpunk cash.

 

[cormack12]

 

[xpresstuning]

Is 6 days weeks for 6 weeks really crunch. I thought crunch was 7 days a week for months at a time. I can't imagine anyone who has worked in any IT job has not done something similar for a go live. I read the title and figured mandated 80 hour work weeks not 1 extra day for 6 weeks lol. I'll work an extra day for 6 weeks for a cut of that cyberpunk cash.

Unlike reasonable people like most of us, there are stupidly ignorant, and genuine privileged individuals who are being overly dramatic and emotionally invested for nothing on the internet.

For one thing, this is not "US crunch". In Europe, there are pro-employee regulations to make it worthwhile. Here's how "crunch" works in Poland for example, explained by a guy who is familiar with overtime and works in Poland:

"Chill out people. This is not US crunch, EU law is much more on employee-side:

In Poland you work 8 hours per day and 40 hours per week. According the Polish Labour Law, you are not allowed to work more than 8 hours extra hours per week and a maximum of 150 hours overtime per year. After working 8 hours a day, you are entitled to 50% extra of the standard wage for every hour you work overtime. When you work overtime on Sundays and holidays, you are entitled to 100% extra of your pay.

The game is huge, contains lot of bugs and new bugs appear every day. It is not easy to polish such a huge game and with every big project, crunch is unavoidable. No matter in which industry you work, the human is just not able to predict the pace of work one year to the future. I work in automotive industry and when we ship new projects, crunch (mandatory overtime) is normal. We get paid and to work extra max 8 hours per week is not THAT BAD. "

So they wanted to avoid mandatory "crunch". Well, COVID happened, and no one could have predicted that. This article is click bait.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Honestly man, I'm growing tired of articles like this because crunch in the AAA industry is SO incredibly common. I've crunched so many times in my past, and the work was pretty insane. I'm talking Monday - Sunday, from 7/8AM to 1/2AM, sometimes 3AM depending on the severity of the crunch. Within that time it was looked down upon to not be there, etc. But I'll admit, some of those times were the best times I've ever had with my coworkers and at those companies. I have so many fond memories where we were almost delirious, lmao.

Over time I've realized that every time I've crunched, especially the most recent time, there's always 1 - 2 people that haven't done it before that make a fuss, but everyone else is fine. I mean, the general reaction would be, "Man, this really sucks. Hopefully it doesn't last too long.", but everyone would continue to do their best because it was our job and work needed doing. Majority of the time the people that would complain or that were really upset had never been in the industry at all before, whereas people that had experience knew it would come at some point.

QA generally gets crunch worse than anyone else does, and that's something that is very well known, and it sucks. They're usually underpaid, overworked, and generally looked down on by other departments as well. It's complete BS.

Crunch is something that is going to continue to exist in the AAA industry and I don't think there is anything that can really be done about it. The only thing that can change is how it is handled. If the dev/pub gives the team a heads up in advance, provides food, etc. As long as there are deadlines to meet, crunch will be there.

I'm just annoyed at the amount of "breaking news" articles that come out from a single source, maybe two to three, when you know the rest of the team is grinding and just doing what they have to do because they have no choice.

Just to give you an idea I've crunched on on the following projects...

Rock Band 2
Rock Band Beatles
Quake Arena Arcade
Bomberman Battlefest
Bonk: Brink Of Extinction
Grey Goo
Dreadnought
RiME

 

[Lokaum D+]

for one second i thought this was era

 

[xpresstuning]

Honestly man, I'm growing tired of articles like this because crunch in the AAA industry is SO incredibly common. I've crunched so many times in my past, and the work was pretty insane. I'm talking Monday - Sunday, from 7/8AM to 1/2AM, sometimes 3AM depending on the severity of the crunch.

What the actual fuck? Sincere reaction here, because i am not 100% familiar to how it works in the US. Is this bullshit how "crunch" works in the US?

 

[MiguelItUp]

What the actual fuck? Sincere reaction here, because i am not 100% familiar to how it works in the US. Is this bullshit how "crunch" works in the US?

So, much like all game industry crunches, it can alter depending on the time and the dev/pub. It just varies. There COULD be some that are even worse than that, to which I would understand a stink. But Monday - Sunday 7/8AM to 1/2AM is but one example I've experienced. The only other I can think of that I've experienced is Monday - Sunday 10AM - 1/2AM, but it's not much different, lmao.

 

[Codswallop_]

This article is click bait.

Well it was written by Schreier, whose specialty is distorting the truth for clicks.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Well it was written by Schreier, whose specialty is distorting the truth for clicks.

Schreier is one that brings this up the most, and a lot of the time it's like, "Well, no shit Sherlock", lol. At least from people that have worked in the industry. I still remember the first industry gig I had when crunch first hit. They did an amazing job of giving us a heads up and letting us know it would come at some point closer to deadlines and submission. But the QA group I was with was like, "UGHHHHHH", while a lot of the other devs that had been in the industry for several years prior were like, "Welcome to the game industry, lol."

 

[FukuDaruma]

Yeah. Statistics made by Soviet Union. Remember there was no famine in Ukraine and Chernobyl was small accident, reactor core totally not melted. That's imperial lie.

According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics they worked less hours than the US workers.

USA/USSR: Facts and Figures

The USA/USSR: Facts and Figures is a joint publication by the statistical agencies of the Unites States and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

www.census.gov

So "CDPR, more like USA"...

 

[xpresstuning]

So, much like all game industry crunches, it can alter depending on the time and the dev/pub. It just varies. There COULD be some that are even worse than that, to which I would understand a stink. But Monday - Sunday 7/8AM to 1/2AM is but one example I've experienced. The only other I can think of that I've experienced is Monday - Sunday 10AM - 1/2AM, but it's not much different, lmao.

I can relate wen discussing job related aspects which aren't employee-friendly. I would advise to always prioritize your health, and move through your goals while always keeping that as a golden rule. At least that's what i have been doing, and i have worked in labor intensive jobs my entire life.

 

[Codswallop_]

According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics they worked less hours than the US workers.

USA/USSR: Facts and Figures

The USA/USSR: Facts and Figures is a joint publication by the statistical agencies of the Unites States and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

www.census.gov

So "CDPR, more like USA"...

Hard to work as many hours when you spend half your day standing in line for bread.

 

[New Yorks Finest]

Relax grown ass men, Its the last 6 weeks at crunch time before major release of the century. They will get nice chunky bonuses and nobody's forcing them with chains to do 12hrs per day 6d/w ..................DOU.

CyberPunk=GOAT
.
..FACTS!!

 

[MiguelItUp]

I can relate wen discussing job related aspects which aren't employee-friendly. I would advise to always prioritize your health, and move through your goals while always keeping that as a golden rule. At least that's what i have been doing, and i have worked in labor intensive jobs my entire life.

Most definitely! All things considered, the companies I've worked for were awesome in terms of making sure we had food, drinks, and were as comfortable as possible. If health was an issue people weren't forced to fight through it or anything, haha. It wasn't a sweatshop by any means, but all hands (as many as possible) were needed to ensure deadlines were met.

 

[Denton]

It is simple, they cannot delay at this point due to contractual obligations and needing to hit console launch and christmas season, and they want to ensure the game is as clean and bug-free as literally humanly possible. I don't begrudge them for it, as long as the devs get compensated, which they will, and can take time off after shipping.

 

[FukuDaruma]

Hard to work as many hours when you spend half your day standing in line for bread.

Very true.

 

[FukuDaruma]

WOW just WOW. I guess you never had to live under communism.
Holodomor, Great Chinese Famine, Cambodian genocide and many more were totally capitalism fault. That totally wasn't true communism right?

”Anyone who loves freedom owes to the Red Army more than he will be able to pay in a lifetime”.
— Ernest Hemingway

But he's only a Nobel and Pulitzer prize winner writer who was an ambulance driver in World War I, a journalist on the field in the spanish Civil War and the Normandy landings and the Liberation of Paris in World War II, so I guess he had no fucking idea about what he was talking about.

 

[AV]

Hahaha no. Capitalism is the root cause of pretty much every world wide problem from poverty and malnutrition to global warming and the absolute raping of the environment, racism and classism is entirely capitalist based in most of the world. Innovation has been stifled greatly by capitalism. Kill the rich.

I saw you in that Xbox thread talking about your OLED TV

Protip: to the majority of the world, you ARE the rich, maybe instead of buying ridiculously premium televisions you should redistribute that wealth

 

[kuncol02]

According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics they worked less hours than the US workers.

USA/USSR: Facts and Figures

The USA/USSR: Facts and Figures is a joint publication by the statistical agencies of the Unites States and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

www.census.gov

So "CDPR, more like USA"...

I don't believe that statistics. Polish workers get free saturdays (not all of them, but few in whole year) in 1973 and people were working in 6 day work days till almost end of communism.

 

[KyoZz]

I'll say the same thing as in the OT for CP 2077:
I do believe that wen you work for a company like CDPR, Santa Monica or R* for examples, you are dedicated and passionate about wat you do and are aware of the sacrifice and the dedication big and important projects (like Red Dead Redemption, God of War, Witcher 3 and many other) require.
It's not fun for sure and it HAS to be supervised, and the hours needs to be paid but it's not something we have to condamne like that. I've been working as a baker, at night, and trust me during the summer the crunch was horrible. But it was part of the deal: work hard and you'll get a good pay.
We are not talking about Ubisoft-like, who use almost illegal practices.

And it is exactly what's happening:

 

[Metnut]

6 day work weeks for a few months leading up to their first big release in years? Paid overtime? Profit sharing?

How do I apply for a job?

 

[MiguelItUp]

They're prepping for submission and release. Of course they're crunching, and no that doesn't call for a delay. That's so ridiculous. Blue Point just recently wrapped on crunching to hit submission on Demon Souls. It's a thing, it's not uncommon, and it's standard in AAA.