LostDonkey
Member
Ah he's speculating that they're lower than 1080 and CB up to 1080 reflections to save resources but it introduces artefacts. Wether it's visible while in movement though is the question as the scenes he showed are not gameplay.
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PlayStation 5 Ray Tracing First Look: Gran Turismo 7, Ratchet & Clank, Pragamata + More! (DF)
- Thread starter iHaunter
- Start date
Bryank75
Banned
You'll really notice the difference playing in person. I still think many games will offer a mode that targets frame rate.....
We can always make our voices heard by asking on twitter etc for frame rate to be prioritized. I would be happy with 1440p with ray tracing and 60fps, instead of 4k with raytracing and 30fps.
They must realize that they are not selling many TV's on the back of 4K, LG is more likely to sell TV's for gaming.
We can always make our voices heard by asking on twitter etc for frame rate to be prioritized. I would be happy with 1440p with ray tracing and 60fps, instead of 4k with raytracing and 30fps.
They must realize that they are not selling many TV's on the back of 4K, LG is more likely to sell TV's for gaming.
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GymWolf
Member
Look, i'm already not a shadow\light\reflection guy, i don't stop shooting stuff to control if the reflection are similar to real life or if the shadows are accurate or some shit, so rtx is already not that impressive to me with realistic and good looking games, imagine how much i like or care about the game with the worst art style ever who literally looks like someone puked pixel on my screen just because it has rtx.
No, to me it doesn't look better, just different.
In my mind rtx serve the purpose to make realistic scenes even more realistic, but you can't trick my brain on thinking that minecraft looks better or more realistic with rtx becauee minecraft vanilla look like the opposite of realism to begin with.
I don't know if i'm clear enough.
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I know I say this a lot, not trying to be a broken record, but ever since the Pro and X were first announced I had hoped this was gonna become a universal standard across console gaming. Preferably a number of options, but at the very least a standard FPS vs Resolution option.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Yes
CAB_Life
Member
Yeah the difference with fake reflections is so big that without this video i didn't even notice it...
But hey, we are gonna sacrifice 4k and 60 frame for this, so yay
I’m kinda in the same boat to be honest. Maybe it’s one of those things I’ll notice more when they really crank it up and use it ubiquitously. Currently, I play a ton of ESO and that game has some of the most gorgeous ”baked” lighting and maps you’ll ever see—for an online game, too, which reguires magnitudes of resources more than your standard game.
GymWolf
Member
I'm sorry but what is eso? Elder scroll online?
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01011001
Banned
I gotta say, Ratchet and Clank's raytracing looks borderline worse than SSR... and that's coming from me, someone who despises SSR with every fiber of my body. And even I would say if the hardware is limiting them this much they should just switch to SSR.
I really hope that's not like this in the final game, it looks really bad in many scenes.
I really hope that's not like this in the final game, it looks really bad in many scenes.
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JTCx
Member
There was no doubt that this game will be a looker. It was just funny seeing people say this game couldve easily been on the ps4 lol
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
01011001
Banned
my dude, the game literally uses many of the same LOD and drawdistance settings, for shadows and the like, from GT Sport. this demo looked almost exactly like GT Sport aside from the RT reflections and maybe some higher poly car models.
so yes, this could literally run on a PS4 if you run it at a lower res than 4K and without the RT reflections. because then you'd basically have GT Sport settings
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CAB_Life
Member
Yes. The environments have always been exceptional, but some of the recent DLC/ Chapters have had incredible vistas.
Fake
Member
"Ask me about computers"Console optimizations = turning expensive settings down to medium/low
GymWolf
Member
It's really hard to imagine incredible graphics from bethesda studio an their ancient engine tbh
I was so uninterested with the game that i have probably never seen even a gameplay trailer tbh.
JTCx
Member
Cool man so basically it runs fine if the settings got lowered
01011001
Banned
Cool man so basically it runs fine if the settings got lowered
yes... that's what people mean when saying it could easily run on PS4... remove RT reflections and you basically have GT Sport graphics. it's GT Sport at 4K with RT Reflections. that's not a big upgrade.
but I bet the final game will look much better when it releases in 3-4 years. because I absolutely think this early tech demo was just that, a tech demo and not even close to a final game.
all they did is up the resolution and throw some raytracing in there so they have something to show off. but in reality the game is most likely not even close to even an Alpha build.
Kuranghi
Member
Yeah, I would prefer that people were educated for what to look for and how to spot "problems" or be able to say why something was technically impressive, but I think thats what DF think they are doing to an extent - breaking it down for layman and teaching you how to see the differences themselves - I don't know how successful its been though tbh...
Does anyone here feel like you had no clue what they were on about when they first started watching DF videoes but now have learned how to see what they see? ie you can do your own comparisons when changing settings back and forth to see where the point of diminishing returns is.
Or do you still go by what they are saying and can't really see the differences yourself?
ANIMAL1975
Member
Console optimizations = turning expensive settings down to medium/low
chilichote
Member
I was really flashed by the first raytracing demos on the Amiga ... but now I am sure that I will not notice anything while playing the game^^
Thugnificient
Banned
Pragmata would have benefitted more from better hair. This looks like straight from a PS3.
Gamernyc78
Banned
Maybe and I'm not knocking you but alot of it is attributed to memory. Graphics have been advancing so much once most aliasing was taken care of and things were smoother it was harder to tell advances but not necessarily because thy weren't as big or bigger. When I sat down and watched comparison videos after the presentation I was amazed at how much of a jump I saw and what I thought looked similar was so far from the truth. Lol it's crazy bro but either way we in for a nice jump imo..
Kokoloko85
Member
Same here
JeloSWE
Member
One interesting thing is that it looks like Pragmata is using some form of realtime GI. It could at first glance look pretty similar to current gen games but they only use static pre-baked GI. If this is true it's really impressive.
Thugnificient
Banned
They should ignore res instead. RT is for the future so the more experience they have with it, the better it'll be. Res can wait, it'll come naturally with more powerful cards.
JeloSWE
Member
Why not both. If they as in Pragmata and GT7 case can run at 4K 60fps, what would you do with the extra performance by not using RT?
Also it's not certain that RT is as expensive as it was on Nvidias first gen cards, AMD might very well have some really good acceleration solutions.
Keihart
Member
It's the RE7/8 hair, no idea why it looks so wonky when DMCV hair looks so nice and it's the same engine.
geordiemp
Member
They have had it since ps4 pro, temporal checkerboarding.
I am sure it will be used or the newer more temporal one by sony first party in 60 FPS versions (or performance modes)
Sony just showing their native 4k and RT solution, which also hurts a 2080ti allot....so commended.
Dont worry, pc master race will come back with 3080 and stuff, but for now consoles have power !
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JustP_Gaming
Banned
July event will show you what the RT core on the series can really do.
JeloSWE
Member
Sir, while CBR is a great technique, it's not DLSS = Deep Learning Super Sampling. In other words, it uses a form of AI upscaling. Basically you take the game rendered to an image sequence at a VERY high resolution and then the same sequence at normal render resolution. You then train a neural network on a super computer with the two data sets. In the end you'll have generated a set of rules for how a group of low resolution pixels should "probably" look at say 4K.
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geordiemp
Member
Sir, there is no better temporal upscaling solution than shown on ps5 UE5 demo, nobody could work out the rendering resolution - DF gave up. Doesnt mattre how many super computers you have to do an algorithm, the truth is in the RESULT.
And UE5 demo was 1440p and we had to be told that, so I dont care how its done, it was the best seen upscale to 4K to date, period.
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that is not as good as DLSS 2.0
Thugnificient
Banned
Dial back the console war theatrics. Attack the argument, not the person.
You guys are seriously trying to reason with a Sony fan?
iamvin22
Industry Verified
at this point, we don't know. but we do know RT is very expensive.
geordiemp
Member
Try debating the point instead of resulting to personal insults because you LOST.
That is childish. Grow up.
Its in a ps5 thread about....ps5 ray tracing....on ps5.
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cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Only the "NeoGAF experts" told you that. Probably the same ones that said that PS5 was going to be more powerful the next gen Xbox. You know. The proper insiders. The ones in know, the ones on the inside. Techofanboys...But Gaf told me PS5 did not support ray tracing
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I really hope Pragmata ends up looking that good. I don't know what that trailer really as but damn it looks clean
sircaw
Banned
receipts??But Gaf told me PS5 did not support ray tracing
Portugeezer
Member
I am sure they'll have something better than CBR. Console developers always try to squeeze out as much from the hardware as the years go in. At the moment they probably don't bother because it's still very early with the new hardware.
Rikkori
Member
How compromised the RT is will become the new way of consoles going below lowest of PC, sorta like how you have various other settings going below PC's low now. To me the resolution sacrifices for RT were immediately obvious, and I know because I play around a lot with SSGI reshade so there's some tell-tale signs when that happens. Don't get me wrong, I think it's the right choice, 4K RT makes no sense and even on desktop it's only achievable when upsampled from a lower res anyway (ala DLSS).
But that's how PC & consoles will split next-gen: how much can you increase RT resolution & how much do you exclude from the scene to being RT'ed (so you don't get into a World of Tanks scenario where technically it's a "raytracing enabled game" but it only works for the player vehicle - lol). And considering how well RT works with multi-gpu, if we get that support back on desktop... oh boy, it's gonna be fun!
But that's how PC & consoles will split next-gen: how much can you increase RT resolution & how much do you exclude from the scene to being RT'ed (so you don't get into a World of Tanks scenario where technically it's a "raytracing enabled game" but it only works for the player vehicle - lol). And considering how well RT works with multi-gpu, if we get that support back on desktop... oh boy, it's gonna be fun!
Self reflections dont necessary mean RT.
I mean Driveclubs car allready had self reflections without using RT.
And looking at 6:40, the reflection of the blue car is using lowe LOD than the car itself.
Im not talking about resolution of reflection but it really looks like different model without taillights or rims on wheels.
So i have my doubts wether or not its actually RT.
I mean Driveclubs car allready had self reflections without using RT.
And looking at 6:40, the reflection of the blue car is using lowe LOD than the car itself.
Im not talking about resolution of reflection but it really looks like different model without taillights or rims on wheels.
So i have my doubts wether or not its actually RT.