Weilthain
Banned
Some stuff like reflections are only true to the observer so I don’t know what that would fall under
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Flat Earth "The truth is more important than my life."
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Some stuff like reflections are only true to the observer so I don’t know what that would fall under
Elcid
Banned
Holy shit some of the people in this thread. I love how the people that blindly believe anything produced by their government and don't question anything are the ones that are "sane and smart" yet the ones who rightfully question shit are being accused of mental illness. Like someone mentioned anti-vaxxers earlier, I'm curious how many of you geniuses have actually done research in VAERS to compare the likelihood of vaccine injury versus the likelihood of getting one of those diseases in the first place and then actually getting permanent effects from one. Believing everything "science" and "government" tell you at first glance doesn't make you smart or sane, it makes you gullible. History has proven time and time again we have been lied to and continue to be lied regularly.
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Elcid
Banned
There is absolutely an objective truth the problem you have is what is produced as truth in history books and research papers are interpretations of truth and very little objectivity goes into it. For example, the reason we're taught the US entered WWI, while yes it's the excuse that was used, it's not the real reason. It's like when you tell someone a story and purposefully leave things out or manipulate pieces of it. Omitting details and manipulating pieces are ways history and science are used to mold people's line of thinking. For example, so many research papers lately that show "the science" are total bullshit if you read them closely. Their lack of a proper sample set, lack of actual control groups, and even the hypothesis they're testing usually steer toward a specific theory which is why years later these things are typically found to be false. For example, muh cholesterol causes heart disease.
Razorback
Member
I agree. The way things seem is not exactly the way things are. Reflections are a good example and stuff like optical illusions illustrate this perfectly.
Like this jpeg that looks like it moves but it doesn't.
So if we can't really trust our senses 100% to tell us what is true. How can people agree on what is true?
For example, your typing on a phone or computer that is massivily complicated. I'm guessing whoever built it didn't use magic, so how did they work out the rules of nature to be able to pull it off?
How did they manage to agree on what reality actually looks like in order to build such complicated machines that?
KorbinDallas
Member
TIL space math works differently than normal math.
Weilthain
Banned
That’s what I was getting at with horizons and perspective.I agree. The way things seem is not exactly the way things are. Reflections are a good example and stuff like optical illusions illustrate this perfectly.
Like this jpeg that looks like it moves but it doesn't.
So if we can't really trust our senses 100% to tell us what is true. How can people agree on what is true?
For example, your typing on a phone or computer that is massivily complicated. I'm guessing whoever built it didn't use magic, so how did they work out the rules of nature to be able to pull it off?
How did they manage to agree on what reality actually looks like in order to build such complicated machines that?
DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
No one is actually claiming "ah, you blindly believe what the gov't is saying? You must be sane and smart"
This kind of strawmanning is extremely common among cults and fringe beliefs. You are forced to resort to vague, underhanded arguments like "woah get a load of all these government-worshippers who just believe what they're told" to deflect from the fact that very little evidence, if any, has been presented in favor of a flat earth. It's less about proving your own beliefs and more about spreading uncertainty, preying upon the natural instinct of skepticism. The goal isn't to ever prove anything, it's to sow enough disbelief that the listener/reader is willing to take a closer look at your side in spite of no convincing evidence being presented.
You think that's the english language you're typing? Idiot, you've been suckered to believe that, and history has proven time and time again that the internet is full of liars. Here, I've made a spoiler with the answer you've been seeking. Don't click it unless you want the FBI knocking on your door! I mean, I've warned you. Probably should screencap it just in case my account gets deleted.
These cult games are well-documented and yet you fall for them.
Elcid
Banned
You're right, that's the entire point of flat earth theory, to force people to go think outside of the box and encourage them to question. Whether or not someone subscribes to flat earth theory is irrelevant in my opinion, it's more about being able to question things. You can believe elements of a theory without falling for a cult, just an fyi.
I've watched/heard countless of history, science, political and conspiracy videos and have entertained them but that doesn't mean I believe in any which one of them. For example, do I believe dinosaurs existed? Before anyone goes ZOMG TEH BONEZ. I believe in pre-historic creatures and believe dinosaur type creatures could have existed, but I don't believe any of the bullshit paleontologists produce. One decade they have feathers then they don't. Then they look like lizards then birds then lizards again, etc. And yes I've read research that explains why the changes and what made them change their hypothesis. I simply prefer to believe there were creatures before and don't choose to blindly accept any theories about them, BUT I am open to hear them. Do I think dinosaurs are cool as fuck as a concept? Totally! But I don't believe the mainstream ideas about them.
Ichabod
Banned
I love a good conspiracy theory and will entertain even the most outlandish of ideas, but after hearing different variations of flat earth elevator sales pitches, I'm just not convinced. One thing I've always wondered is, if the FE theory is true, what is the rationale behind keeping the truth from people? What possible difference would it make in the grand scheme of things if the earth was a snow globe instead of a sphere? Why the grand deception?
Razorback
Member
I'm aware of the replication crisis in soft sciences like psychology and poorly done medical and nutritional studies. Humans are biased and will mess up things in predictable ways, even scientists. But not all sciences are the same. The hard sciences like physics and chemistry are much more rigorous.
For example, are you familiar with the P-value of a study? I'm oversimplifying here but It's basically the probability that the result of a test is just coincidental. So let's say that if you publish a paper with a result of p=0.1 that means that there's a 1 in 10 chance of it being just a coincidence.
1 in 10 odds isn't that great. And in the softer sciences I mentioned, the actual value required to publish a paper is P=0.05. That's 1 in 20. This is also not that great, but it's what we have.
In physics in order to publish a paper, your results must show a significantly smaller p-value. When they discovered the Higgs boson, the odds of the results being coincidental are about 1 in 3.5 million. That's a p-value of p=0.0000003.
So when guys like Einstein come up with stuff like the general theory of relativity and explain how gravity works to a ridiculous degree of precision, they aren't fucking around.
That being said, you can choose to ignore all of that and believe that all of science is made up, that's fine. You can try to tear it all down, that's what it's there for, go at it.
What you can't do, is replace it with a completly different model of reality that you have zero evidence for that even if it worked would only raise more questions than it answers.
Razorback
Member
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DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
Not really. I don't accept this extremely charitable view of a cult theory, especially when "thinking outside of the box" is not unique or inherent to it. Every cult claims to have special knowledge. Every cult claims to have a special perception of reality that they've simply opened their minds to. Every cult excoriates the outsiders who dare inject their own viewpoints on the matter. The ones outside the cult just don't see yet.
Even the word "demon" refers to "one with knowledge".
You shouldn't give credit to a false theory that has some pieces of perceived truth in it just for the sake of it, either.
"Heh heh I believe this lie but you know, it's not about the lie. It's trying to start a conversation about the truth, don't you understand?"
Skepticism is healthy. Open-mindedness is healthy. Neither of these character traits have anything to do with the truthfulness of a subject, however i.e. just because a paleontologist lied (or more likely, was just mistaken) about a topic doesn't mean we have to be skeptical of the whole lot.
It's a twisted version of collectivism. You believe the teeming mass of collectives are out there and only a small group of individual freethinkers (you're included, of course) are huddled together keeping the torch of freedom and curiosity alive.
I don't buy it. I think flat earthers want attention. They are idolizing their discovery of their natural sense of skepticism as if they've unlocked the universe, a True Believer. Hipsters think their musical selection is the best, too.
ResilientBanana
Member
You can't just accept anything as an answer though. Being open to new ideas means there was an idea to begin with and it sounds like you haven't a clue. Science Laws and Theories are open to be challanged once enough evidence is provided, it's not like they are concrete. They can be amended and adjusted as new information presents itself as long as the new data is rock solid and reviewed and tested by committy. Until that point, however, they are true.
So being open to thinking in a wildly different perspective isn't the best idea because these laws and theories exist in a way to where they were scrutinized and proven over and over again. To not trust them and to have agnostic beliefs in science and the way things work is not a smart move. People spend their lives committed to this kind of work and are educated enough to do it. You on the other hand are not and whatever you think or believe is simply you putting faith into a preposterous ideology that makes absolutely no sense and hasn't for thousands of years.
To go backwards is a very primitive way of thinking.
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Elcid
Banned
Yeah I've looked at P-values before, we're not disagreeing here. My point is some research is good, some is garbage, but CNN throws out a headline and people immediately subscribe and start spouting it like it's the 10 commandments, without ever reading the damn research themselves. And to your last point, if the world were indeed flat, yeah it would totally lead to a lot more questions. That's the thing about flat earth theory, at some point you should get to a point in your research where either you're 100% convinced it's flat, or round, if you walk away with more questions then there's still some missing variables. Like I said, for me it's more about questioning. Before I started learning about flat earth theory I didn't know shit about Antarctica, now it's one of my favorite topics to research. Did you know they need nuclear drills to be able to break some of the ice? It's damn insane. I also didn't know that no one has gone deeper than ~8 miles through the ground, or that the majority of the ocean is unexplored and once you get to a certain point there's a completely different density/type of water. Do I believe the Earth is flat? No, as I've said before, but it has pointed me to a lot of interesting topics, and made me question things I never would have thought twice about.
I believe I already explained this one. There are certain things you must believe in to understand the why of this. I'm going to go a little outlandish for most people here but fuck it, YOLO.
The belief is that there is a group of Luciferians aka the Illuminati that are trying to mass deceive the populations of the world.
Lucifer translates to "Lightbringer", Illuminati translates to "illuminated" or "seen the light".
If you believe in the Bible at all (I believe only in the certain books of the Bible, but that's a long convoluted topic), then you know that there is good and evil.
Evil is often described as the deceiver, the one who constantly deceives to stray people from God's light.
You know, God is good, he wants you to go to Heaven, the devil is bad wants your soul for all eternity!
So the idea as to why flat earth is a great deception is because if people knew they were in a snow-globe type world, where there are no other planets, no other life out there, and your existence does in fact have meaning, then concepts like atheism would go out the door completely. The idea is that if people knew that we were never on a globe earth, and the deception was only pushed to get people to discredit/disbelieve in God then people would naturally find God. In other words break away from the deception. Think about it, if you knew for a fact that the Earth was never a globe as described, there are no other lifeforms, no aliens, no other planets, and it was all here in this one snow-globe type world where there is no OUT, you cannot break the globe, would you or would you not assume there's a creator on the other side of the glass? Again, that's the idea as to why it's such a big lie. Some people will say it's to get your tax money and shit for NASA, or to hide technology from you, etc. but that's not the real explanation. Those are small benefits IF it were in fact a lie, the real reason why flat earth is entertained at all is really from the religious standpoint.
I will tell you as someone who was raised an avid Christian my entire life, I recently found what I consider to be the greatest lie in human history, and even if flat earth were true, then it would still pale in comparison. Even knowing this, what I now consider the ultimate truth, it hasn't changed my life in anyway, but it has changed my perception of things, and I don't think I'll ever be able to see things the same again.
One last comment, do I believe in flat earth? For the umpteenth time, no, in fact calling it flat isn't even accurate to the theory so its name itself is off putting and misleading, but I do enjoy the line of thinking, and just questioning things in general is what I do.
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Weilthain
Banned
Being open to different ways of looking at things is good for your mind not bad. That’s probably why most of our inventions were invented in the first place and why future inventions will dumbfound you.
Elcid
Banned
Ok then don't? That's the beauty of the internets. Read into what you want, ignore what you don't want. Or are you saying you want them silenced entirely and they should have no platform at all? At the end of the day what people choose to believe in is none of my concern, I mean we live in a decade where people are identifying as dogs and questioning the very foundation of something that is not even theory at all, anatomy. Do you really believe people doing basic ass experiments to find out if the world is moving or not is really that big of a concern? Listen to them if you want, if it's not worth your time, then just close the thread and move on.
ResilientBanana
Member
I agree with you to the extent that the reason all inventions were created was because the people that dedicated their lives to science had a foundation of knowledge and a keen understanding to work from. How the hell did we get to space without invention? Cars, Electricity, Nuclear Power, Nuclear Bombs, etc? They were all created using what you call space math. The math doesn't differ from place to place, only the variables, which is why the math is not imaginary.
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Razorback
Member
Oh you mean like GPS? How does that work again?
DunDunDunpachi
Patient MembeR
Oh, is this the "everyone is allowed to have an opinion" defense? I am clearly reading what I want and I am responding to it. I am under no obligation to only read the things I like and ignore the things I don't agree with. You're advocating that I reject the very same freethinking, open-minded principles that you claim flat earthers are promoting.
If you think I am saying this, quote me where I infer it. Otherwise, this is your precious little persecution complex popping up in unexpected places. The truth can withstand scrutiny. Scrutiny isn't a call for silence.
What people choose to believe seems to be a huge concern of yours. If it wasn't, you would close the thread and move on as well. Go ahead and clap for a cult that is deceiving people for the sake of being "open minded" though. Hipsters wore ugly clothes to show how superior to the norms of fashion they all are, too.
Weilthain
Banned
99% of international data is apparently transferred by underwater cables, maybe those satellites are high altitude “geostationary “ balloons. Maybe they are real?
infinitys_7th
Member
Inverse r^2 laws say "Hi".
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Ichabod
Banned
I'm familiar with Luciferianism and its insidious machinations, but, again, I am unconvinced. The other side of the argument you present, if we're approaching things from a religious perspective, is God created the heavens and the earth, moreover, space which is so vast and unknowable - a void that is full of wonders such as star clusters, nebulas, galaxies, and the like; cosmic forces that even our most brilliant scientific minds struggle to fully comprehend. Could it not also serve as a backdrop fashioned to show mortals that even though their Creator possesses the power to craft a neverending canvas of stars and galaxies, he found humanity so special that he tucked us away on a planet positioned at just the right spot in the unforgiving abyss of space where life (as we know it) could flourish? To me, that alternative is more uplifting than the one you presented.
Elcid
Banned
I don't understand, are you on the offensive? Should I be defending something? I'm not sure what your point is, and I never said you inferred that, I'm asking if that's what you would prefer because I'm not sure what you're getting at. If you don't want people to have an opinion, and don't want to ignore them, then what do you want from them?
I think there's some confusion on your end, I didn't open this thread, thus I cannot close it. And I never clapped for the cult? People asked what it was and threw out comments around it being a pizza dish, all I did was clarify that was not what flat earth theory is. All I ever did in this thread was clarify, and point out that people are so quick to dismiss things like flat earth theory without bothering to look into it further, when there are in fact lies all around us. I never said flat earth was the answer to anything, but explained that it has led me to interesting topics and truths. They don't have to go down the flat earth path to discover these things, but it's one road of many.
ResilientBanana
Member
Maybe they are fucking real? GPS can only be done in space, it stands for GLOBAL POSITIONING SYSTEM! The satelites orbit the earth and find your position, you cannot do that from the ground. What the fuck?!
What Is GPS & How do Global Positioning Systems Work? | Geotab
The Global Positioning System is a navigation network of satellites, monitoring stations & receivers used to transmit global location data. Learn more here.
Elcid
Banned
That's fine, I'm not trying to convince you or anyone of anything. You asked the why, I explained the believed why to you. Whether you or I, or anyone else believes that is irrelevant in my opinion. That's simply the core behind the flat earth conspiracy.
Weilthain
Banned
I am aware of all these space facts you tell me.Maybe they are fucking real? GPS can only be done in space, it stands for GLOBAL POSITIONING SYSTEM! The satelites orbit the earth and find your position, you cannot do that from the ground. What the fuck?!
What Is GPS & How do Global Positioning Systems Work? | Geotab
The Global Positioning System is a navigation network of satellites, monitoring stations & receivers used to transmit global location data. Learn more here.www.geotab.com
I’m not trolling, but I do find it so hilarious when I get a reply like that.
Yes I do know that!
Maybe the “satellites” are not quite what we think they are. Maybe they are?!!!
Weilthain
Banned
Trying to slip in some sneaky space math
Elcid
Banned
You know one thing that does blow me away about GPS is that there are some open parts of the world where it just doesn't work at all and some areas that are heavily covered and it works perfectly.
For example, how does a ship with a GPS get lost? It happens all the time, instead they rely on AIS signals, which requires towers, but causes them to lose their reported position for hours at a time. This is especially a problem for some ships as they will lose GPS completely in certain regions of the world. Does that mean I believe GPS and satellites don't exist? No, but clearly the technology is exaggerated and is not like those CIA films where they can just look up someone's nostrils from anywhere in the world.
ResilientBanana
Member
There is no other explanation for them, this is what they are and you can sometimes see them at night. You can even see the ISS space station float by and if you look through a telescope, it's visible depending on how powerful it is.
This right here is evidence of our existence in space. the path can even be charted here.
International Space Station
See the International Space Station! As the third brightest object in the sky the space station is easy to see if you know when to look up.
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Nice bullshit you just wrote. There are no areas whitout GPS access. The satellites were deployed in such altitude and orbits that there are always direct line of sight to at least 4 satellites. 3 are enough to get your coordinates and 4 are needed if you also want your altitude info. GPS is managed by US Air Force. Russia, China, Europe has their own systems and some of them are even compatible. You will always have access to it unless blocked.
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Elcid
Banned
Explain why there are parts of the world where ships can't use GPS to navigate then.
Which are those parts? I haven't heard about them. Unless there's some intentional jamming, loss of direct sight or faulty receiver.
GPS functions perfectly even in Antarctica.
Elcid
Banned
The common example I'm told is around the fjords of Norway but there are more, I can't remember them off the top of my head. This is what I've been told by navigation officers because one of my projects relies on GPS and the questions always come up "what about the areas where there is no GPS".
I can't seem to find anything about fjords being reported as some kind of consistent black spot. So I can't take your word for it. Maybe if you are very close to them they can block the line of sight to some satellites. There are some jamming by russians reported though.
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Elcid
Banned
No idea why it happens, like I said simply what I've been told by contacts on ships. I've been on a few ship bridges for work and it's common knowledge apparently for them. Norway fjords is the one I most commonly hear thus remember. Never said GPS is bullshit, but I don't think it's as amazing as Hollywood makes it out to be.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
i mean, just cos it is not 100%, doesn't mean it is 0%. that's the problem with today. most people can only think in binary.
i believe reality does not work like that. it is not digital. we are thinking digitally now, since our thinking takes place in a digital environment (the internet). but reality is not digital. it is analog.
luckily, we are analog as well. our IRL senses are. there is a lot we can experience that can't simply codified through our senses. meta sensory sensations, dreams, imaginations, visions, etc. all kinds of alternate states of consciousness we slip into and out of during the course of living. yet there is a foundation, a structure to reality, that we accept. in order for things to make any sense, for language to exist, for society to exist, we every day must accept all kinds of unseen truths, role playing in a million different ways "the game of life" daily. it may be maya, it may be illusion, but it is laced upon some kind of unseen Truth. i believe this, at least.
to go on this uncertainty, to believe that there is a real reality, even with the knowledge that our senses can trick us from time to time, is human. to think otherwise is mostly adopting some binary internet philosophy posturing that doesn't make any sense. for instance just because our senses are flawed does not mean they are useless. just because our perception of reality is not one way doesn't mean it is wholly illusory.
there are natural patterns, natural orders to things. it is entertaining to think about chaos or nonthingness, as if anyone could ever actually do that, when in reality things are set up in pretty clear and obvious and sublime ways. all you need to do is sit and breathe, just watch your body operating on it's own, listen to the heart, pumping on it's own, your breathing, in and out, not only entirely involuntarily, but if you try and control these things, you will fail, you will find yourself obstructing this natural process. no, i believe there is an inherent structure to reality, call it God or whatever, but personally, it is quite apparent in all living things.
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Elcid
Banned
I love that people are more receptive towards thinking we're living inside a simulation than they are to thinking the shape of the world is anything other than a globe.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Flat is NOT justice.
Therefore Earth is a sphere.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
He does play the piano like a goddamn motherfucker though, so I'll give him that.
Weilthain
for your next video, please play Rocket Man while wearing an astronaut suit please.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
No play Crocodile Rock.
I mean, you are proud of still questioning the shape of the earth while others are developing fusion reactors, quantum computers, telescopes that see deep into space. Look at all the crazy techological advancments around you. Pick up your smart phone and ask yourself if that kind of device can be built by a society that doesn't even know the shape of the object they are living on.
Simulation theory has some traction due to weirdness of quantum world which makes you question if anything exists at all as we perceive it. Quantum mechanics challenge our understanding of physical reality.
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HORRORSHØW
Member
Enjoy your diet cocks
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The great taste and full flavor of regular cock, but now with less guilt!
Elcid
Banned
Could we not be in a simulation where the world is not a globe...?