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Teen indicted on felony charges for lying about being raped by three Black males
- Thread starter Dram
- Start date
This isn't directed to you but FUCK THAT.
My people get tried as adults even as kids and TREATED as adults all the damn time. Where is our innocence in age?? Look at this bullshit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SFumxa4IgM
Turns out they weren't even the kids "responsible" nor did they have a weapon. Imagine if one of them made any sort of "move"....bet money he would have shot them
Quote from the video itself - "Controversial bodycam video shows Grand Rapids police draw guns on a group of five youths following a basketball game. According the authorities, they received a report of a fight on the basketball courts a few minutes earlier. The witness said he saw one male drop a revolver. When police arrived on scene they weren't sure whether the youths were armed, and so they decided to individually detain the five boys. Police later explain that the boys were unarmed and were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Officer Troy Colegrove spoke with the boy's parents and explained:
"We hate that it had to get to that point...we're just doing our job, because a lot of people out here have guns. We're not saying that your kids have guns - we're just doing our job."
The parents of the five youths believe they were unfairly targeted because of their race. Police chief David Rahinsky disagrees, and says the officers were acting on articulate facts from a witness."
EDIT: Longer video..one of the kids crying cause he doesn't want to die, plus cops talking to mother, who is visibly upset and shaken - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOLBak8aUM0
It seems like these are the more serious charges, although the specifics of what she's being charged with aren't in the article. Messing with official records and doing something/trying to do something to evidence taken relating to the hoax rape case.
For what it's worth, I think 10 years is ridiculous as a punishment for the hoax charge itself. She didn't accuse anyone specifically, and yeah it could have caused hate crime to occur, but it didn't, and it isn't clear what her intentions were. She might just be mentally ill and chose 'black guys' out of thin air because of the ingrained racism in American society. I'd have the same perspective regardless on whether this was a man, woman, any ethnicity or age. I don't see what 10 years in jail is going to fix here. Prison is hell, people often come out much worse than they went in.
This isn't something a well person does. It seems extremely nasty that some people have a kneejerk response of 'put the fucker in prison', without really having the information. If she had accused someone specifically, I'd be a bit less sympathetic because that is a way to ruin a person's life, and might not be a product of some mental issue. Basically, this shit makes no sense for a person to do.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Your jumping to chalk this up to mental illness doesn't make any more sense in addition to having no evidence.
vasametropolis
Member
For lying you should have to do the time the accused would have if convicted. Only fair.
The difference is I'm not advocating a 10 year sentence based on a bunch of stuff that isn't clear and she hasn't been found guilty of yet. If she's mentally ill then treatment should be prioritised over punitive incarceration, but she hasn't gone to court yet and people are saying throw away the key.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
What do you think is an appropriate punishment
I agree on not putting her in jail for different reasons I explained above, but when a white woman accuses three black men of rape it doesn't have to be against a specific person to ruin lives. Cops would just start nabbing people that 'fit the description' and since police interaction with black males is like playing Russian roulette...
I agree this situation would be a concern. I was thinking more in situations where you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that someone was lying (either via confession, or hard evidence)
If someone is found not guilty of rape, it doesn't necessarily mean the other person was lying, or trying to get an innocent person convicted, it just means that the prosecution could not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that a rape occurred, based on the available evidence.
Nydius
Member
This took place in rural ass Denison, Texas. Approximate estimated population 23,000, with a greater than 10:1 ratio of Caucasians to African-Americans. She knew damn well what she was doing when she ran in yelling that three black men raped her. She was banking on small town southern racism to make her story believable.
Just imagine if the wrong person heard her claim and decided to go shooting up some black people as retribution. Putting the entire black community of ~2000 in fear with a false blanket racial claim is much worse than naming specific names.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Why in Texas? I thought the pervailing feeling amongst progressives was that prosecuting false accusations was bad because they would discourage people from coming forward with real cases and the deck is already stacked so much against prosecution.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Is this some kind of fucking joke
After decades of black men being wrongfully accused in cases like this one, it's pleasing to see the police are performing their due diligence in this instance. She deserves to be punished to full extent of the law just. Imagine the lives that could have been ruined due to her lies.
It's true what she did had the potential to be quite destructive, specifically for black men in the area, which is why it should be dealt with. I think police misconduct as a result of an accusation is really more their fault than hers, though - and the police seem to have done a good job here, anyway.
My point is that yelling 'PRISON!!!!' doesn't make sense to me as an appropriate response, it's coming out of anger and like I said, there's nothing to indicate what her state of mind was when she did this. A post above said - 'she knew exactly what she was doing', but the truth is we don't even know exactly what she did right now, and people are jumping to condemn her. There is nothing from her about her motivation.
She could have done it to intentionally, in a lucid state of mind, to stir up racial tension, in which case, in my opinion, it should be a hate crime and carry a prison sentence. She could also have some kind of mental issue and the description of her imaginary assailants as black be a product of that, so then she should be treated as mentally ill and she should be made to see a doctor - the other crimes she is charged with notwithstanding.
What you said earlier about this setting a precedent to severely punish false/thought to be false accusations of rape is also a concern. If it is established that accusing someone of rape, beyond the normal risks and stigma involved, could also carry a very heavy jail sentence if you aren't believed, then yeah that would discourage legitimate victims from reporting the attack even more than they otherwise would be.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Repeating the question: what would you say is an appropriate punishment, specifically if she is found mentally competent
Ed: actually you know what never mind, you seem to need her to be innocent
The Last Wizard
Member
Some of y'all ain't slick, y'all ain't no apologists. Know damn well what y'all doing😂
I kinda doubt it was because of mental health issues. I'd imagine it's either because she found out she was pregnant and freaked out and came up with a stupid plan to make it not her fault, or she was shit stirring for attention.
Claude Augario
Member
Lock her ass up.
Lock up her supporters for failing the human race too. We damn well know none of these people would have shit to say to any of the countless black victims of this bullshit.
Lock up her supporters for failing the human race too. We damn well know none of these people would have shit to say to any of the countless black victims of this bullshit.
UnemployedVillain
Member
A slap on the wrist and someone telling her "Racism is bad, okay?" every day until she's covinces said person she understands and is discharged
It's incredible how many racist white people also seem to be mentally ill. Simply incredible, really. You almost can't find a racist who isn't mentally ill, according to some GAFfers
I said it should carry a prison sentence if it was racially motivated in that post, although I suppose I didn't say how long, but that's because I don't think I'm qualified to pick a number like that. 10 years for a crime that didn't directly hurt anybody seems pretty severe, that's all I'd say.
It's really only me saying this, I think. It's such an outlandishly strange thing to do, such a fucking stupid thing to do, that I have to ask - why did she do this? I'm not discounting the possibility she did it specifically to attack black men, but just as much as you're trying to paint me as a sexist who doesn't care about the damage she might have caused, you have people saying 'hey man we fuckin know why she did it, so obvious, don't even need to hear the details, lock her up' which has no more integrity than what I'm saying.
I'm not 'supporting' her, what she is accused of is wrong and criminal. There should be consequences, I just don't think a very long prison sentence is the obvious correct response for the reasons I said before. Also, you absolutely don't know I wouldn't have anything to say about black victims, you don't even know who I am. If it was a black woman in this topic, I'd be saying the exact same thing, and I haven't said anything that would indicate otherwise.
So because no one got false charged and imprisonedfor the false rape accusation or got hurt in vigilante retribution, she shouldn't be punished as much as she is being charged?
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
http://time.com/3613506/prosecuting-women-for-false-rape-allegations/
http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl...ns_why_must_be_pretend_they_never_happen.html
https://www.dailydot.com/via/how-conor-oberst-became-mra-icon/
http://mncasa.org/assets/PDFs/False Allegations of Sexual Assault_Issue Brief 2016.pdf
PS not saying I agree, just saying that not prosecuting false accusations is a progressive position. The alt-right MRA contingent are gung-ho on prosecution for false rape claims.
Angelus Errare
Banned
I suggest everyone read this. Not directly related to this story but it all ties back to the how the perceived innocence of white women has been used as a weapon again black men and PoC throughout American history. Hopefully some of you realize how you are feeding into this shit by absolving her of her crimes by making up excuses for her.
https://twitter.com/KHandozo/status/891041899766726656
If? Uh...it was.
https://twitter.com/KHandozo/status/891041899766726656
If? Uh...it was.
I think it matters that she didn't directly accuse specific people. From what I can see, she did an extremely stupid thing, a thing that is kind of incomprehensible, for reasons so far unknown. It would be different if she had said 'it was Johnny, the guy who works in the repair shop', because that's targeted and probably malevolent. She has a victim there.
What most people are saying are about the things other people could have done in response to her non-specific rape claim. After a certain point, it would be the police and any vigilante types own responsibility as to what they did. She should still be charged with the crimes she has committed, but people are charging her with potential crimes other people could have committed, but didn't.
I didn't really expect to have to defend myself on this - my whole thing is trying to quell the bloodlust for punishment some people have, so I was really responding to that - but all I can say is what I'm saying has absolutely nothing to do with the ethnicity of the women. I don't give a damn about innocence and I don't feel like she's innocent, I'm just saying she might not have been a lucid functioning adult when she did this, and she might not be now - I would say the exact same thing regardless of what age, gender or ethnicity she was because what she did is weird as hell. Does it seem like something a mentally healthy person would do to you? Accuse no-one in particular of raping her, by walking half-naked into a church covered in self-inflicted bruises? Seems weird to me, doesn't seem like a master plan.
There's a racial element to her accusation which needs to be looked into. If she was totally aware of what she was doing and the harm it might cause specifically to black men and was either fine with that or that was actually the point, then it's a hate crime. If she just said 'it was black guys' because she's a dumb hick or she was in a diminished mental state, then yeah that sucks, she's racist, but she might not really have been aware of what she was doing. That doesn't matter as far as whether what she did was criminal, but it matters as to how severe a punishment should be, I think.
Exactly why I think a long prison term, while deserved in this case, is a bad idea. A huge fine and community service would be better imo. Charging women with serious crimes for false accusations is scary because when we are actually raped, it's hard to prove and most times the cop you report to doesn't even believe you, and treats you like a suspect instead of a victim. Rape is the only crime where the victim is put on trail along with the accused.
Most rapes go unreported because of this already, throw in the chance that if you don't get a conviction you'll go to jail instead and that will drop to zero.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
There's a reason she specifically said 3 black men though. That race didn't come out randomly. If she didn't targeted anybody then saying a white men did it would be "better" for the simple reason that there's more white men then black men.
That act was racially charged and put not only black men put the black community in this area at risk. Needless risk, so yes she would be as much responsable to the act that would ensue after her false claim as the people doing them.
Velcro Fly
Member
Have to tread lightly here. Don't want to make it any more difficult for actual victims to come forward.
Claude Augario
Member
You're wringing your hands over a prison sentence she hasn't received but totally earned while making up bullshit qualifiers like "if" it was racially motivated, and everybody's favorite copout, mental illness.
And anyone that can say something as absurd as this...
...with a straight face has told me all I need to know with how they view black victims.
The Last Wizard
Member
Nah, I don't believe this. Charge them, real victims won't be dissuaded cause of liars being prosecuted.
teacupcopter
Banned
There is a difference between "person accuses and then is found innocent" and "false accusation"
There is a reason she is getting this brought against her and it's the straight up fabrication. This isn't a case where she thought it was them but it was someone else. Rape claim cases are hard for woman and complicated for society. This isn't a case where a woman has been attacked and is in confusion or societal pressure to do or say or not say things to protect herself or to avoid being judged. This is a woman who has made it all up. Or at least allegedly (did she admit it?)
THe police in Texas wouldn't bring this against (a white woman no less) her lightly.
Everyone saying "poor girl" - oh well. I'm not a tough sentencing advocate and I do think things should change for lighter sentences / more rehabilitation but starting with this case would set a horrible precedence and it's hilarious / sad to watch people advocate for this.
For the people saying mentally ill- well that's what the courts will be deciding won't it? Again- I wonder how many black youths get the luxury of this defence.
There is a reason she is getting this brought against her and it's the straight up fabrication. This isn't a case where she thought it was them but it was someone else. Rape claim cases are hard for woman and complicated for society. This isn't a case where a woman has been attacked and is in confusion or societal pressure to do or say or not say things to protect herself or to avoid being judged. This is a woman who has made it all up. Or at least allegedly (did she admit it?)
THe police in Texas wouldn't bring this against (a white woman no less) her lightly.
Everyone saying "poor girl" - oh well. I'm not a tough sentencing advocate and I do think things should change for lighter sentences / more rehabilitation but starting with this case would set a horrible precedence and it's hilarious / sad to watch people advocate for this.
For the people saying mentally ill- well that's what the courts will be deciding won't it? Again- I wonder how many black youths get the luxury of this defence.
Every real victim is accused of being a liar. Yes, it would dissuade real victims. Conviction rates on rape cases that actually go to trail are like, 5% or less. So if they don't get a conviction, they could be charged with lying.
How often does 'make an example of' prosecution work? Seems like never. Ruining her life isn't going to un-ruin anyone else's. Have her do community service with low income families, and form a human connection with the people she has treated like animals.
That's fine, I've made the points I wanted to make. If someone is determined to think the main reason I don't think this particular woman should be thrown in jail for 10 years is because I don't care about black victims, I can't really help that more than I have. We're all coming at this from our own experience and perspective on what should be done about crime.
Why should low income families have to deal with the trash of the middle class?
There is a difference between not being able to prove a rape case and this case where they were able to prove it was all fake.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Subhuman trash shouldn't have the right to mingle with decent human beings.
And yes, I called her subhuman trash, because anyone who would EVER do this is subhuman trash.
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
"Mentally ill"? Seriously?
EdibleKnife
Member
She is in fact lying and committed a crime by doing so. Nobody thinks, believes or suspects she's lied. She actually lied. Why would community service lift any more societal weight than prison time for a crime when both are punishments in the first place? Why is punishing a woman for an actual crime more damaging and dissuasive than the fact that society continually publicly puts people on the stand and don't actually convict rapists when it counts? Suggesting to go easy on her just because it might reinforce the idea that "women lie about rape" comes off as hollow when the people (MRA, anti-feminist, PUA, alt-right types) who buy into that already have their views reinforced by the fact the lying happened in the first place, not just because there was punishment for it. Treating her with kid gloves isn't suddenly going to soften rape culture as a whole and in fact, as mentioned, rather feeds into the cultural idea of some inherent black criminality and the lack of consequences for encouraging that kind of bigotry. That you can just say a black person did something vicious or criminal and even if you lied about it, you shouldn't be held accountable because it's just such a "believable" scenario anyway.
Big Shirtless Ron
Member
How would a conviction in this case dissuade rape victims from coming forward? I mean, she admitted that this was a hoax.
https://archive.is/JuxoR
That's an archive of the GoFundMe.
https://archive.is/JuxoR
That's an archive of the GoFundMe.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
There's nothing progressive about arguing against consequences for rape allegations proven to be false. People can call themselves progressive and espouse that if they want to though.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
The key is in the race of her imaginary attackers.
Seductivpancakes
Member
She can admit that she did it for the GoFundMe in front of a judge but people still claim mental illness caused her to want that money.
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