• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Xbox Series X’s BCPack Texture Compression Technique 'might be' better than the PS5’s Kraken

Mr Moose

Member
Sep 10, 2013
5,791
12,543
865
England
Well they have the issues of no expandable storage, no VRR support and totally inferior backwards compatibility. The games you mentioned are a PS3 game and a PS4 port, Microsoft upgraded Gears 5 and Forza Horizon 4 substantially but they just didn't charge extra for them.
A remake and a PS4/5 game. Miles Morales on PS4 cost the same price as the PS5 version, I think.
 
Mar 27, 2020
12,194
33,654
720
Uncharted bunghole
Well they have the issues of no expandable storage, no VRR support and totally inferior backwards compatibility. The games you mentioned are a PS3 game and a PS4 port, Microsoft upgraded Gears 5 and Forza Horizon 4 substantially but they just didn't charge extra for them.

Just curious what does inferior backwards compatibility have to do with Sony not being ready?

I mentioned Demon Souls and Miles Morales because those games used the hardware well. I don't think expandable storage would have been possible at launch given the requirements of it. Not having VRR support is definitely puzzling though.




Hopefully that helps with what I mean by using the hardware well.
 
Last edited:

LMJ

Member
Feb 7, 2019
1,193
2,064
550
Oh for fucks sake Riky Riky when literally everything but the base design of Demons Souls is new, then yeah its a new game.

New engine
New models
New Designs
New Music
New Animation
New Move-set
New Lighting system
New Ai system (albeit based on the old one) to compensate for the higher framerate
New Functionality (Dualsense 3D Audio)

Just because it's a remake and a faithful one at that doesn't mean it's not new, if you tear down a building and build a new one from scratch...only using the old houses blueprints to go off of, it's still a new building.

It is a built from the ground up remake, a new game!
 
Last edited:

Thief1987

Member
Jan 8, 2018
509
1,294
455
Not to make fun of him but how?





What would make more sense to me is if it was compressed.
Don't ask questions, just believe. It's just some developer on xbox fanboys podcast claimed that he is doubled physical capabilities of ssd in his personal early tests(imagine what this genius potentially can achieve in the future when he put his mind to it), nothing to see here really.
 
Last edited:

skit_data

Member
Nov 3, 2020
1,304
3,266
385
The structure of the game is still two generations old , not offensive just facts. I played it over a decade ago. Not saying it's not a good game but it's not a new game.
Would you consider Gears 5 to have dated structure as well? Is it fair to belittle a large part of Master Chief collection?

It’s a full on remake in every defintion of the word of a GOTY awarded game with quite a lot of QoL improvements. The structure of the game is pretty much the same as any of From Softwares latest output, so it’s not really an argument IMO.

If Xbox were to release a complete remake of lets say...Perfect Dark/Perfect Dark Zero? Wouldn’t you consider it a new game? Would you starkly defend it as an old game?

I would consider it a new game, especially if it was made by an acclaimed remake studio. It could technically be ”wrong” but I would still consider it a solid launch title and in all aspects worth calling a ”new game”
 
Last edited:
Mar 27, 2020
12,194
33,654
720
Uncharted bunghole
If Xbox were to release a complete remake of lets say...Perfect Dark/Perfect Dark Zero? Wouldn’t you consider it a new game? Would you starkly defend it as an old game?

If 343 were to remake Halo Combat Evolved to take advantage of those 12TFs I wouldn't consider it an Xbox game even though you can still play the original in the MCC. Yes the game would be based on an old one but visually it would be several generations ahead. Just like Demon Souls which is why I really want to play the game again even though I had it on my PS3.

P.S A remake of the Bungie classics would be incredible in my opinion. I would still hate the library though.
 

SenjutsuSage

Member
Jan 23, 2010
10,612
3,586
1,260
Not to make fun of him but how?





What would make more sense to me is if it was compressed.

Let's use Cerny's math.

2GB divided by 5GB/s divided by 1.5 = PS5 moves 2GB into RAM in just 0.27 seconds.



10GB divided by 2.4GB/s for Series X SSD divided by 1.5 = 2.78 seconds (technically 2 seconds)

The technical director for Dirt 5 said he achieved this in his own personal tests without compression. And the math using the Series X SSD's top RAW speed actually bears this out.

“We look at all of these things all of the time. I can’t promise which stuff is going to come in future patches, because we have to balance loads of different things, but it might. That’s the best I can do. In terms of fast storage on Series X, I think that hardware is great, I worked on it with Microsoft early on and provided some feedback to them. I looked at the speed that we could get from it, you can get 10GB in two seconds in my personal early tests, it may well be able to do way better than that. And that was without the compression in the hardware, that was just raw.”

Here's the video. The part where he says it was raw without compression comes later, and I'll find that exact part.


I get the feeling people see 10GB and immediately think it MUST be able to reach SSD speeds of 5GB/s to achieve that, but it doesn't work that way. 5GB/s RAW wouldn't take 2 seconds to move 10GB, it would take 1.3 seconds, for example. It doesn't work how I suspect some people think it does.
 
Last edited:

Thief1987

Member
Jan 8, 2018
509
1,294
455
Let's use Cerny's math.

2GB divided by 5GB/s divided by 1.5 = PS5 moves 2GB into RAM in just 0.27 seconds.



10GB divided by 2.4GB/s for Series X SSD divided by 1.5 = 2.78 seconds (technically 2 seconds)

The technical director for Dirt 5 said he achieved this in his own personal tests without compression. And the math using the Series X SSD's top RAW speed actually bears this out.



Here's the video. The part where he says it was raw without compression comes later, and I'll find that exact part.

Cerny's math is including compression, from where do you think 1.5 divider appeared?
 

Red_Driver85

Member
Nov 19, 2019
350
1,719
345
Not to make fun of him but how?
All his calculations of gigabytes per second are irrelevant. There are numbers of specifications, there are streaming techniques that allow you to use not only the rough bandwidth, but also reasonably save it without losing anything of value. But numbers are numbers and they are stubborn as facts. XsX has ssd with a maximum bandwidth of 2.4GB/s (input) with a dramless flash controller, there is a decompressor for general and texture data (zlib+bcpack) with a maximum decompression of 6.5GB/s (output), there are texture filters in the GPU that can help in not wasting i/o bandwidth and RAM (smart evolution of PRT). 25GB/s from 2.4GB/s ssd? C'mon, we are not so stupid. It's 6.5GB/s total after decompression, for everything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thewire and Stooky

skit_data

Member
Nov 3, 2020
1,304
3,266
385
If 343 were to remake Halo Combat Evolved to take advantage of those 12TFs I wouldn't consider it an Xbox game even though you can still play the original in the MCC. Yes the game would be based on an old one but visually it would be several generations ahead. Just like Demon Souls which is why I really want to play the game again even though I had it on my PS3.

P.S A remake of the Bungie classics would be incredible in my opinion. I would still hate the library though.
I bought and played through the original Demon’s Souls last year for the first time before the remake was announced. While it wasn’t perfect with framerates down in the cellar at times it quickly became one of my top 10 games played last gen.

Of course I bought the remake at launch as well and platinumed it within a month(a hell of a lot easier than the original, I gave up after realizing the last trophies were related to Pure stones from the crystal lizards with limited respawns) and I thorougly enjoyed it.

Remasters are not to be considered new games, but actual Remakes are. That is my view on the matter.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: fragganaut
Mar 27, 2020
12,194
33,654
720
Uncharted bunghole
I bought and played through the original Demon’s Souls last year for the first time before the remake was announced. While it wasn’t perfect with framerates down in the cellar at times it quickly became one of my top 10 games played last gen.

Of course I bought the remake at launch as well and platinumed it within a month(a hell of a lot easier than the original, I gave up after realizing the last trophies were related to Pure stones from the crystal lizards with limited respawns) and I thorougly enjoyed it.

Remasters are not to be considered new games, but actual Remakes are. That is my view on the matter.

Damn I really like getting platinums with games that I really enjoy. That sounds like a pain though with the Crystal Lizards.
 

SenjutsuSage

Member
Jan 23, 2010
10,612
3,586
1,260
Cerny's math is including compression, from where do you think 1.5 divider appeared?

I actually don't believe he's counting compression there. That's raw SSD perf from PS5 without kraken even being in play. This is why I think most still don't realize what we have on our hands with these consoles. It's going to be crazy.

Notice he uses the same 1.5 in there for PS4 data streaming, but adds * 3 (not sure why, assuming it has something to do with seek times on the HDD, which doesn't exist for the SSD I suppose)




Because I literally couldn't locate it in that longer 2 hour+ video, I found the exact section where the Dirt 5 Technical Director again confirms (from a shorter recap video made by dealer) he is able to load 10GB of data into RAM on Series X without even using the compression hardware at all. It's the raw capability of the hardware. It just comes down to making many requests at once and proper data layout.


That's just raw, and obviously it doesn't include Sampler Feedback Streaming. This is why I continue to believe that any assumptions we've fully seen what these systems can do with their I/O are premature, particularly if anyone is sleeping on what Series X will be able to do.

I literally slammed my hand on the desk at the moment he interrupted what the dev was saying, as he seemed as if he was about to go into some really interesting stuff right before Dealer jumped in. But there you have it, a technical director of a major studio saying in his own tests he was able to achieve 10GB into RAM in just 2 seconds without touching any of the compression stuff, and he suggests it may be able to do way better, and chances are he's correct with what's known about the advantages of using compression and also if Sampler Feedback Streaming delivers what Microsoft says it will when developers start utilizing it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Hosam6xavi and Riky

skit_data

Member
Nov 3, 2020
1,304
3,266
385
Damn I really like getting platinums with games that I really enjoy. That sounds like a pain though with the Crystal Lizards.
I already collected the infamously low drop rate-Pure Bladestone but those lizards were the straw that broke the camels back. In the original you had to get a fully upgraded weapon of all types
 

Vognerful

Member
May 21, 2020
370
424
330
That's perfectly answered your question. They just limit transfer speeds for BC reasons, that's all.
First of all, why would they do that? You said it had to do with the compatibility, but then why MSFT had no problem, (if you claim so.)

And second thing, what is your source?
 

Thief1987

Member
Jan 8, 2018
509
1,294
455
First of all, why would they do that? You said it had to do with the compatibility, but then why MSFT had no problem, (if you claim so.)

And second thing, what is your source?
Those tests are not good enough source for you where 500MB/s and 7000MB/s drives performs the same? My source is just common sense.
 
Last edited:

Vognerful

Member
May 21, 2020
370
424
330
Those tests are not good enough source for you where 500MB/s and 7000MB/s drives performs the same? My source is just common sense.
Dude, Trust Me!n!!!!!!!!!!!!

Would appreciate more that you would be less confident in your assumptions as DF did not suggest this themselves. Other people suggested it is how much resource it gets from the CPU, not how much speed the SSD is throttled.

And your sorry ass response did not answer my question, why would they throttle their SSD speed for compatibility? Most games on PC has no problem running on SSD without any modifications.
 

laser_printer

Member
Dec 10, 2019
2,475
4,186
490
Sactown
Well they have the issues of no expandable storage, no VRR support and totally inferior backwards compatibility. The games you mentioned are a PS3 game and a PS4 port, Microsoft upgraded Gears 5 and Forza Horizon 4 substantially but they just didn't charge extra for them.

Both are coming so it’s not like they don’t have it. Additionally, expandable storage will have better options going forward as there are many different brands of SSD that fit the spec for the PS5. Meanwhile, you have a single SSD option from the worst storage manufacturer on the market LOL. If it means I have to wait for a Samsung or Western Digital, it’s worth the wait than paying for that thing from Seagate who’s barely just started making SSDs and has the nerve to charge a premium.


The structure of the game is still two generations old , not offensive just facts. I played it over a decade ago. Not saying it's not a good game but it's not a new game.

As we saw with the interesting Halo showing. Microsoft’s still selling the structure of a 4 generations old game and couldn’t even get it right on time to launch with a console that’s literally advertising it on the back of the box but yeah, whatever.

Rather than people saying the first 1-2 years of a console is largely for early adopters to slowly migrate over and work out the kinks for future purchasers everyone needs to chill out acting like there’s some clear winner on any side, especially considering most people can’t even buy one if they wanted too.
 
  • LOL
  • Strength
Reactions: Rea and Riky

SenjutsuSage

Member
Jan 23, 2010
10,612
3,586
1,260
He is, just go to 6.10 in this same video. His math is just very estimated without specifications for certain compress algos.

You are absolutely, 100% correct! Just checked it out. Missed that detail in the video, so the 1.5 is absolutely including compression. Well then that changes quite a bit indeed because the technical director on dirt 5 confirmed multiple times in his own personal testing that he can move 10GB of data into Series X's RAM pool without using any of the compression hardware, which is quite frankly insane for the raw spec.

He says it right here.


He further goes on to say the key is to make many requests at the same time, and then organize your data in a smart way. An engineering challenge basically, not much of a hardware one. I'll link to the official DirectStorage blog post by Microsoft where they explain why many requests at once are needed, and I believe Sony or other developers have basically said more or less the same.



In either case, previous gen games had an asset streaming budget on the order of 50MB/s which even at smaller 64k block sizes (ie. one texture tile) amounts to only hundreds of IO requests per second. With multi-gigabyte a second capable NVMe drives, to take advantage of the full bandwidth, this quickly explodes to tens of thousands of IO requests a second. Taking the Series X’s 2.4GB/s capable drive and the same 64k block sizes as an example, that amounts to >35,000 IO requests per second to saturate it.

Existing APIs require the application to manage and handle each of these requests one at a time first by submitting the request, waiting for it to complete, and then handling its completion
. The overhead of each request is not very large and wasn’t a choke point for older games running on slower hard drives, but multiplied tens of thousands of times per second, IO overhead can quickly become too expensive preventing games from being able to take advantage of the increased NVMe drive bandwidths.

On top of that, many of these assets are compressed. In order to be used by the CPU or GPU, they must first be decompressed. A game can pull as much data off the disk as it wants, but you still need an efficient way to decompress and get it to the GPU for rendering. By using DirectStorage, your games are able to leverage the best current and upcoming decompression technologies.

In a world where a game knows it needs to load and decompress thousands of blocks for the next frame, the one-at-a-time model results in loss of efficiency at various points in the data block’s journey. The DirectStorage API is architected in a way that takes all this into account and maximizes performance throughout the entire pipeline from NVMe drive all the way to the GPU.


It does this in several ways: by reducing per-request NVMe overhead, enabling batched many-at-a-time parallel IO requests which can be efficiently fed to the GPU, and giving games finer grain control over when they get notified of IO request completion instead of having to react to every tiny IO completion.

In this way, developers are given an extremely efficient way to submit/handle many orders of magnitude more IO requests than ever before ultimately minimizing the time you wait to get in game, and bringing you larger, more detailed virtual worlds that load in as fast as your game character can move through it.

NVMe devices are not only extremely high bandwidth SSD based devices, but they also have hardware data access pipes called NVMe queues which are particularly suited to gaming workloads. To get data off the drive, an OS submits a request to the drive and data is delivered to the app via these queues. An NVMe device can have multiple queues and each queue can contain many requests at a time. This is a perfect match to the parallel and batched nature of modern gaming workloads. The DirectStorage programming model essentially gives developers direct control over that highly optimized hardware.

In addition, existing storage APIs also incur a lot of ‘extra steps’ between an application making an IO request and the request being fulfilled by the storage device, resulting in unnecessary request overhead. These extra steps can be things like data transformations needed during certain parts of normal IO operation. However, these steps aren’t required for every IO request on every NVMe drive on every gaming machine. With a supported NVMe drive and properly configured gaming machine, DirectStorage will be able to detect up front that these extra steps are not required and skip all the necessary checks/operations making every IO request cheaper to fulfill.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: ErRor88

Three

Member
Oct 26, 2014
6,036
3,523
610
Dude, Trust Me!n!!!!!!!!!!!!

Would appreciate more that you would be less confident in your assumptions as DF did not suggest this themselves. Other people suggested it is how much resource it gets from the CPU, not how much speed the SSD is throttled.

And your sorry ass response did not answer my question, why would they throttle their SSD speed for compatibility? Most games on PC has no problem running on SSD without any modifications.
Well if did do that it's likely that some games run into issues with async tasks though I would hope that is rare especially for the more experienced studios. What is likely the difference though isn't the SSD speed being the bottleneck on BC games. It's the fact that it's essentially a PS Pro decompressing it vs an Xbox One X/SeriesX. So the drive is being read fast enough but it's not being decompressed with the new decompression tech in a PS5.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vognerful

Thief1987

Member
Jan 8, 2018
509
1,294
455
And your sorry ass response did not answer my question, why would they throttle their SSD speed for compatibility? Most games on PC has no problem running on SSD without any modifications.
Why would they disable half of ps4 pro GPU for compatibility with unpatched ps4 games? Most games on PC has no problem running on GPU's with any CU count.
 
Last edited:

Vognerful

Member
May 21, 2020
370
424
330
Why would they disable half of ps4 pro GPU to compatibility with unpatched ps4 games? Most games on PC has no problem running on GPU's with any CU count.
Are you trying to answer "who knows?"

You brought the claim, you have to justify it! Or just admit that it is your fucking guess.
 

Thief1987

Member
Jan 8, 2018
509
1,294
455
Are you trying to answer "who knows?"

You brought the claim, you have to justify it! Or just admit that it is your fucking guess.
In my first reply to you i wrote "seems like", so, yes, it's my guess, educated guess based on data that i have before my eyes.
 

Vognerful

Member
May 21, 2020
370
424
330
Well if did do that it's likely that some games run into issues with async tasks though I would hope that is rare especially for the more experienced studios. What is likely the difference though isn't the SSD speed being the bottleneck on BC games. It's the fact that it's essentially a PS Pro decompressing it vs an Xbox One X/SeriesX. So the drive is being read fast enough but it's not being decompressed with the new decompression tech in a PS5.
Appreciate the response, but the issue I have is not that it is accessing the special decompression hardware. Rather, why doesn't it access the CPU power to for direct decompression?
 

Vognerful

Member
May 21, 2020
370
424
330
In my first reply to you i wrote "seems like", so, yes, it's my guess, educated guess based on data that i have before my eyes.
Your response here just reeks of smugness, so excuse me if I did show you aggressiveness in my comment.
Those tests are not good enough source for you where 500MB/s and 7000MB/s drives performs the same? My source is just common sense.
Why would they disable half of ps4 pro GPU for compatibility with unpatched ps4 games? Most games on PC has no problem running on GPU's with any CU count.

Most comments and even DF (in the similar test they have done) never mentioned that the SSD would be throttled. There is absolutely no similarity in operation between a GPU and SSD so your second example is stupid. And you absolutely do not come by like you are "guessing"
 

Three

Member
Oct 26, 2014
6,036
3,523
610
Appreciate the response, but the issue I have is not that it is accessing the special decompression hardware. Rather, why doesn't it access the CPU power to for direct decompression?

PS4 games in PS5 BC mode don't get access to extra power other than a PS4 Pro unless they are specifically patched for it.

Interesting.

Does the PS5 beat the load times of a PS4 Pro with an SSD?
It does but not by the expected amount.

Drive access isn't continuous.
 
Mar 27, 2020
12,194
33,654
720
Uncharted bunghole
PS4 games in PS5 BC mode don't get access to extra power other than a PS4 Pro unless they are specifically patched for it.


It does but not by the expected amount.

Drive access isn't continuous.

Holy crap that's really slow compared to the Native PS5 games especially the 1st party ones.

I can see the higher clocks helping with the decompression but it's still really slow.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Three

Thief1987

Member
Jan 8, 2018
509
1,294
455
GTA V is not a very good example btw, now we know that it was awfully written json parser, was fixed by modder, which significantly slowed down initial loading in this game.


Edit oh it looks like this is only about GTA Online
 
Last edited:

captainraincoat

Gold Member
Nov 15, 2010
5,200
7,943
1,240
people throw around the inferior bc on the ps5 and focus on the graphics ect but they fail to see the stupid file system that makes you have to install 2 different versions of a game to play with your friends as the ps5 and ps4 versions are different

Xbox this is seamless…no need for 2 installs filling up your already full storage space…I’m sick of running out of space on the ps5
 
Mar 27, 2020
12,194
33,654
720
Uncharted bunghole
people throw around the inferior bc on the ps5 and focus on the graphics ect but they fail to see the stupid file system that makes you have to install 2 different versions of a game to play with your friends as the ps5 and ps4 versions are different

Xbox this is seamless…no need for 2 installs filling up your already full storage space…I’m sick of running out of space on the ps5

Wasn't that fixed?
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Jun 1, 2013
8,961
3,931
850
Wasn't that fixed?
Yeah this was fixed months ago. Unless they are talking about cases where saves dont transfer over, and/or the game doesn't have cross play.

I just upgraded Subnautica to the free PS5 version...and even a game as small as that the PS5 version is smaller. At this point....it is what it is. The compression on PS5 is just working really well so far, this early in the gen.

PS4 games in PS5 BC mode don't get access to extra power other than a PS4 Pro unless they are specifically patched for it.


It does but not by the expected amount.

Drive access isn't continuous.

Yup, this says it all:



There was a theory before the console launched that it would use PS5 power easily, but nope. Needs to be patch for the most part. Its using the Pro Mode. That means Pro clock speeds.

Its why when ppl like to bring up BC games....its basically the Pro vs One X or Series X unless stated overwise from the patch, devs. Even then its not completely clear.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Stooky
Mar 27, 2020
12,194
33,654
720
Uncharted bunghole
Yeah this was fixed months ago. Unless they are talking about cases where saves dont transfer over, and/or the game doesn't have cross play.

I just upgraded Subnautica to the free PS5 version...and even a game as small as that the PS5 version is smaller. At this point....it is what it is. The compression on PS5 is just working really well so far, this early in the gen.

That's what I thought. Unless he's saying that for crossplay you need two versions of a game. But I never heard of something like that happening. What I do know is that sometimes upgrading to the PS5 version of a game doesn't eliminate the PS4 version that was already installed. But as I stated earlier I believe this issue was fixed. Maybe there are some games where it still is an issue?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Three and jroc74

Tripolygon

Member
May 6, 2012
4,406
6,392
1,160
NYC
You are absolutely, 100% correct! Just checked it out. Missed that detail in the video, so the 1.5 is absolutely including compression. Well then that changes quite a bit indeed because the technical director on dirt 5 confirmed multiple times in his own personal testing that he can move 10GB of data into Series X's RAM pool without using any of the compression hardware, which is quite frankly insane for the raw spec.
Literally impossible. PS5 raw speed is 5.5GB/s and 11GB/s compressed. Xbox Series X raw speed is 2.4GB/s and compressed 4.8GB/s. This is assuming 200% compression.

This is the SSD in XSX WD SN530 but on PCIe Gen 4, raw speed 2.4GB/s


Conclusion: Either David was talking about a devkit with super fast SSD as is very common for devkits to have faster hardware than consoles, or he misspoke. Either way it is impossible to to cram 5GB of data into 2.4GB/s bandwidth without using any compression.
 

Thief1987

Member
Jan 8, 2018
509
1,294
455
stupid file system
It's not file system issue, it's how their databases were designed from the beginning. Physical, digital, demo, trial, different editions, different regions - they all have their unique id and considered as different entries. It's not very good decision but there are plenty of poorly reasoned decisions, because of a rush with developing PSN, which is too late to fix without its complete overhaul.
 
Last edited:
Mar 27, 2020
12,194
33,654
720
Uncharted bunghole
Literally impossible. PS5 raw speed is 5.5GB/s and 11GB/s compressed. Xbox Series X raw speed is 2.4GB/s and compressed 4.8GB/s. This is assuming 200% compression.

This is the SSD in XSX WD SN530 but on PCIe Gen 4, raw speed 2.4GB/s


Conclusion: Either David was talking about a devkit with super fast SSD as is very common for devkits to have faster hardware than consoles, or he misspoke. Either way it is impossible to to cram 5GB of data into 2.4GB/s bandwidth without using any compression.

It's definitely not something I'm seeing in games. If the XSX can do that raw then it's compressed speeds would be much higher than the PS5s. I haven't seen any evidence of either being true in the games that we have seen.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Jun 1, 2013
8,961
3,931
850
That's what I thought. Unless he's saying that for crossplay you need two versions of a game. But I never heard of something like that happening. What I do know is that sometimes upgrading to the PS5 version of a game doesn't eliminate the PS4 version that was already installed. But as I stated earlier I believe this issue was fixed. Maybe there are some games where it still is an issue?
Yeah, this too. I dont think Subnautica saves transfer over....which sucks because I made it so far in this game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

SenjutsuSage

Member
Jan 23, 2010
10,612
3,586
1,260
Yeah this was fixed months ago. Unless they are talking about cases where saves dont transfer over, and/or the game doesn't have cross play.

I just upgraded Subnautica to the free PS5 version...and even a game as small as that the PS5 version is smaller. At this point....it is what it is. The compression on PS5 is just working really well so far, this early in the gen.



Yup, this says it all:



There was a theory before the console launched that it would use PS5 power easily, but nope. Needs to be patch for the most part. Its using the Pro Mode. That means Pro clock speeds.

Its why when ppl like to bring up BC games....its basically the Pro vs One X or Series X unless stated overwise from the patch, devs. Even then its not completely clear.

Definitely not a fair "power comparison" when BC is involved, which is why I would only ever make a comparison as a joke, but it's definitely a testament to how great a job Microsoft did on the backwards compatibility front that it's so effortless for devs to allow older games to more easily tap into extra performance from Series X. For Microsoft not being "ready" for all their next gen stuff, or to show it off the right way, they were beyond ready for backwards compatibility support.
 
  • Like
Reactions: alabtrosMyster

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Jun 1, 2013
8,961
3,931
850
Definitely not a fair "power comparison" when BC is involved, which is why I would only ever make a comparison as a joke, but it's definitely a testament to how great a job Microsoft did on the backwards compatibility front that it's so effortless for devs to allow older games to more easily tap into extra performance from Series X. For Microsoft not being "ready" for all their next gen stuff, or to show it off the right way, they were beyond ready for backwards compatibility support.
Yeah, this was obvious since last gen.

And its why they market it so much for the Series X.

Also, just checked and RE Village is indeed 27GB on PS5. How I have no idea. I thought that was a pre patch size but checking for an update and nope.
 
Last edited:

Thief1987

Member
Jan 8, 2018
509
1,294
455
I'd just like to point out that neither of these machines are powerful enough to display textures using all of the VRAM in these machines at a good framerate, so you guys arguing over IO speed isn't really that meaningful from a player perspective.
Eh, do you know that textures size impact on performance is actually close to zero?
 
Last edited:

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Jun 1, 2013
8,961
3,931
850
Literally impossible. PS5 raw speed is 5.5GB/s and 11GB/s compressed. Xbox Series X raw speed is 2.4GB/s and compressed 4.8GB/s. This is assuming 200% compression.

This is the SSD in XSX WD SN530 but on PCIe Gen 4, raw speed 2.4GB/s


Conclusion: Either David was talking about a devkit with super fast SSD as is very common for devkits to have faster hardware than consoles, or he misspoke. Either way it is impossible to to cram 5GB of data into 2.4GB/s bandwidth without using any compression.
Yeah, I dont doubt what the Series consoles are doing is good too, but I highly doubt its that good, lol.

Maybe some folks are hung up on MS giving their file system setup a nice catchy name and Sony didnt.