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[Jennings]

With the wider appeal and great financial success of adopting a more traditional open world format in Elden Ring, will FromSoft ever return to the intricate puzzlebox map design of earlier Soulsborne titles?

Count me as one of the people enjoying Elden Ring for what it is, but in my heart I'm fonder of the complex & tightly wound map designs in earlier titles. Progress felt more rewarding, death felt more punishing, and one of the greatest rewards I could find in the game wasn't loot, it was a shortcut or a new avenue of exploration. I can understand why the masses might prefer a huge world to explore, especially when the puzzlebox design often leads to chokepoints many players wind up stuck on for days at a time, but for me it helps the threats all seem much more immediate, and tangible.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly see the pros and cons of each format, especially when it comes to giving players the illusion that there's still plenty else to do when they hit a brick wall in campaign progression, but I'm hopeful future From titles will revisit certain design choices of the past.

 

[Elder Legend]

With the wider appeal and great financial success of adopting a more traditional open world format in Elden Ring, will FromSoft ever return to the intricate puzzlebox map design of earlier Soulsborne titles?

Count me as one of the people enjoying Elden Ring for what it is, but in my heart I'm fonder of the complex & tightly wound map designs in earlier titles. Progress felt more rewarding, death felt more punishing, and one of the greatest rewards I could find in the game wasn't loot, it was a shortcut or a new avenue of exploration. I can understand why the masses might prefer a huge world to explore, especially when the puzzlebox design often leads to chokepoints many players wind up stuck on for days at a time, but for me it helps the threats all seem much more immediate, and tangible.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly see the pros and cons of each format, especially when it comes to giving players the illusion that there's still plenty else to do when they hit a brick wall in campaign progression, but I'm hopeful future From titles will revisit certain design choices of the past.

I am not sure what crack you are on or how far you are in the game or if you have been playing the same game as I have. There are plenty of complexities in the Elden Ring's designs. Especially Lyndell Royal Capital. There has been quite a few times where I have been lost on trying to figure out where to go next in Elden Ring, clocked in at 150+ hours and still haven't finished it. There is plenty of traditional complex map designs here.

Please provide a detailed example of what you are talking about here in Dark Souls vs Elden Ring because right now your argument is not very strong. Elden Ring is the perfect mix of amazing open world design done right and tight corridor spaced out castles/dungeons. No other game in existence does it better than Elden Ring right now.

 

[SeraphJan]

Miyazaki will always try something new in the future, maybe its neither of them

 

[Aenima]

I just beated some kind of academy for mages, forgot the name, and that place is pure souls games level design, with shortcuts, lots of secrets to be discovered etc. So on top of the huge open world, you still have the traditional level design in closed zones, like castles.

 

[DenchDeckard]

The first castle is classic dark souls level design it even feels a little like an ode to demons souls.I do not have a clue what OP is talking about.

i remember these exact same threads about dungeons in breath of the wild….at least there was some weight to the conversation there as the dungeons were more or less stripped out for the smaller shrine approach.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Maybe.

As long as they don't make another Dark Souls that's just a corridor like DS3.

 

[Y0ssarian]

With the wider appeal and great financial success of adopting a more traditional open world format in Elden Ring, will FromSoft ever return to the intricate puzzlebox map design of earlier Soulsborne titles?

No

 

[ckaneo]

Yes because making open world games takes way too long. They will probably have two piplines after elden rings success. One that makes the seikiros and bloodbornes the other constantly working on the open worlds like elden ring 2.

 

[tusharngf]

I hope Miyazaki makes a modern-day souls game with Castlevania type map design.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

This is pretty premature, go and play more Elden Ring and you’ll see that the open world is just one part of the game.

Stormveil Castle, Academy and Siofra River are just a few examples of places that contain the complex level design you have seen in previous From games.

 

[Yumi]

I’m about 4 hours into Castle Stormveil and it’s the best castle design in the whole series in my opinion.

Sounds like you haven’t played the game enough. It’s the first castle from what I can tell.

 

[RoboFu]

I’m about 4 hours into Castle Stormveil and it’s the best castle design in the whole series in my opinion.

Sounds like you haven’t played the game enough. It’s the first castle from what I can tell.

I still can’t figure out how to get the bottom. It must be something for later in the game

 

[TintoConCasera]

I still can’t figure out how to get the bottom. It must be something for later in the game

It's not... And there are two ways!

 

[Spaceman292]

With the wider appeal and great financial success of adopting a more traditional open world format in Elden Ring, will FromSoft ever return to the intricate puzzlebox map design of earlier Soulsborne titles?

Count me as one of the people enjoying Elden Ring for what it is, but in my heart I'm fonder of the complex & tightly wound map designs in earlier titles. Progress felt more rewarding, death felt more punishing, and one of the greatest rewards I could find in the game wasn't loot, it was a shortcut or a new avenue of exploration. I can understand why the masses might prefer a huge world to explore, especially when the puzzlebox design often leads to chokepoints many players wind up stuck on for days at a time, but for me it helps the threats all seem much more immediate, and tangible.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly see the pros and cons of each format, especially when it comes to giving players the illusion that there's still plenty else to do when they hit a brick wall in campaign progression, but I'm hopeful future From titles will revisit certain design choices of the past.

They already went back to it in Elden Ring

 

[AV]

I still can’t figure out how to get the bottom. It must be something for later in the game

I only realised there was a bottom when I went back hours and hours later looking for something else. In fact, there's a locked door in that castle I still haven't opened. Puzzle box indeed.

 

[ToxicWeeb]

I’m about 4 hours into Castle Stormveil and it’s the best castle design in the whole series in my opinion.

Sounds like you haven’t played the game enough. It’s the first castle from what I can tell.

Yep, Stormveil is amazing, so many places to explore.

 

[Sub_Level]

Armored Core 6 is apparently the next major game from FromSoft and Miyazaki, not another Souls quite yet. So really its neither.

 

[RoboFu]

I only realised there was a bottom when I went back hours and hours later looking for something else. In fact, there's a locked door in that castle I still haven't opened. Puzzle box indeed.

I fell in a hole and saw the area … while I was dying lol

 

[FunkMiller]

OP clearly hasn’t played much of the game. There are legacy dungeons in this game with all the intricacies of previous Souls games. Academy is a complex, multi-level structure, with multiple pathways. And there are other even better ones elsewhere.

 

[kraspkibble]

Armored Core 6 is apparently the next major game from FromSoft and Miyazaki, not another Souls quite yet. So really its neither.

 

[BennyBlanco]

OP clearly hasn’t played much of the game. There are legacy dungeons in this game with all the intricacies of previous Souls games. Academy is a complex, multi-level structure, with multiple pathways. And there are other even better ones elsewhere.

Yeah, it has some of their best level design yet.

 

[Punished Miku]

Miyazaki will always try something new in the future, maybe its neither of them

It'll probably be pretty similar to his last 7 games though. But fingers crossed.

 

[SeraphJan]

It'll probably be pretty similar to his last 7 games though. But fingers crossed.

He did try something new with Sekiro with verticality in its level design.

 

[Sub_Level]

Naw, ER is great but after more than a decade of Souls I’m ready for some AC!

 

[Ezquimacore]

This game did it brilliantly, all I want from the next zelda is temples like this game but using the Zelda formula.

 

[Shmunter]

You can’t put the cat back in the bag sadly

 

[levyjl1988]

Does the smaller dungeons have some sort of shortcut system where you suddenly loop back to previous areas with surprise or areas where you have to carve through the darkness with lighting brazens like in Dark Souls 2? I enjoyed that in Dark Souls 1, where there is some sort of geographic consistency in the world.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

I just beated some kind of academy for mages, forgot the name, and that place is pure souls games level design, with shortcuts, lots of secrets to be discovered etc. So on top of the huge open world, you still have the traditional level design in closed zones, like castles.

Oh, I have a key for a place with Academy in its name. I think I'll make it a goal to find this place today. I have other keys which I have yet to find a use for, too.
There are tons of things to do in this game and so many times I've found new things after combing through areas I've been to, a second time.

 

[tassletine]

Just wrong -- Elden Ring is full of that sort of design, just get to a castle.
I thought the same when first playing, but there are some very intricate, tight levels with far more 'how do I get there?' moments than usual.

The open world stuff is just filler, much like Ash Lake and Royal Wood was filler. Nothing has really changed, just expanded, although having the ability to warp around makes things easier.

 

[Petopia]

They should go back to armored core, tenchu or kings field.

 

[kingpotato]

Tell me you haven't played much Elden Ring without telling me you haven't played much Elden Ring.

 

[RafterXL]

They never left.

When you start playing Elden Ring you see this open world game, with vast areas and ways to deal with it that are far different from previous games. Once you get further in you realize the genius of the design. They basically built that world around multiple Dark Souls games. So, all the level design and gameplay from the previous games are still there, they've just added another layer on top of it with the open world.

 

[Mr Hyde]

I prefer this approach, whee you have a beautiful open world to explore and then intricate level design and shortcuts when you visit castles and other big points of interest. It's the best of both worlds.

 

[Krappadizzle]

Elden Ring absolutely has complex, HUGE, traditional dungeons/castles that are as complex as anything they've done in the past, they've just added a really compelling open world on top of that.

 

[Evil Calvin]

They should go back to armored core, tenchu or kings field.

Armored Core is coming out this year.
Sekiro started out as Tenchu then they made it it's own thing
Dark Souls is really the evolution of King's Field. RPG which is slow and deliberate

 

[YukiOnna]

So you confirm you haven't played much of Elden Ring? Because the Legacy Dungeons are literally that and more complex than any previous setting.

 

[Petopia]

Armored Core is coming out this year.
Sekiro started out as Tenchu then they made it it's own thing
Dark Souls is really the evolution of King's Field. RPG which is slow and deliberate

Nah man i dont agree with u on the tenchu and kings field argument.

 

[YukiOnna]

Nah man i dont agree with u on the tenchu and kings field argument.

It's apparently what they said that they had considered Tenchu sequel, but decided to do their own thing and only take inspiration from it and a couple of other games like Mysterious Murasame Castle.

 

[cireza]

 

[Petopia]

It's apparently what they said that they had considered Tenchu sequel, but decided to do their own thing and only take inspiration from it and a couple of other games like Mysterious Murasame Castle.

Well that was pretty lame if u asked me its just another souls game with out the rpg and more action based also theyve came out with nothing but souls games it would be better of they went back to basics like a kingsfield.

 

[SantaC]

He did try something new with Sekiro with verticality in its level design.

There is verticality in Elden ring. Lots of it.

 

[Killer8]

On the contrary, I hope they don't move away from open world. Souls games always felt like they suffered a bit from a lack of adjoining space between the levels - Dark Souls 2 was a particular victim of this with its immersion breaking Earthen Peak elevator. Elden Ring is much more expansive which obviously adds to the epic feeling, but also kind of feels like what From always wanted to do since Demons Souls. Instead of having to warp across the world, you just travel naturally.

 

[Osaka_Boss]

Something in between the scale of DS1's metroidvania3d like and Elden ring big scale would be fun.

 

[RoadHazard]

I mean, no Souls game has REALLY had that (as in a fully interconnected "puzzle world") since DkS1. 2 definitely didn't, and 3 didn't either to nearly the same degree as 1. 3 (and BB) had it in a more limited, local fashion, and ER does too in dungeons etc.