Support NeoGAF

[Jim Ryan other Clone]

The dude posted why he thought it was good, why don’t you say why you think it was bad? What are these major flaws you speak of that are overlooked? Pretty funny you want to criticize the obligatory git gud response when you’re playing the tired role of elden ring thread shitter upper.

Get dual wield imbued one with ice and one with blood. Go to the boss, do a jump +L1 three times and the boss is dead. Are you struggling even after that, call your copy and jump two times apply frost and bleed and then move to the next boss. Git Gut my ass.

 

[Brigandier]

I don't really like From games but Sekiro and ER were excellent.

ER really clicked with me and I had a blast.

It's definitely not absolutely perfect though, I would have liked more life in the game all towns, settlements and villages are always dead and burned in every game they make why not change it up a little?.

Recycled bosses are lame or fight two at once later on is weak but I loved ER great game.

 

[Arachnid]

Yep, it's a masterpiece.

Greatest of all time belongs to Bloodborne though

 

[Ogbert]

It’s alright.

Didn’t like the switch to Open World. Game becomes a fucking slog.

Traditional DS titles are way better.

 

[xpresstuning]

I don't really like From games but Sekiro and ER were excellent.

ER really clicked with me and I had a blast.

It's definitely not absolutely perfect though, I would have liked more life in the game all towns, settlements and villages are always dead and burned in every game they make why not change it up a little?.

Recycled bosses are lame or fight two at once later on is weak but I loved ER great game.

Those lovable dancing people in the windmills had plenty of life in them tho.

I was like "Alright, what the fuck am i going into now?"

 

[Thief1987]

I absolutely agree. Its Zelda Ocarina of Time levels for me. The level design is insane.

Yep, it's absolutely insane how they fell from the DS1, which has arguably one of the best designed map/world, to a boring, barren OW with copypasta caves and unremarkable, forgettable dungeons.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

The GOAT

 

[Jim Ryan other Clone]

I wish I can get an strong strong build so I can explore this world at my pleasure.

Game is too hard. Its not fun when you have to dance around every goddamn enemy. Fuck up your stats and you're done. Go farm somewhere now.

Start as samurai, the skills of the katana is one of the best. Go to the church then the first ruins follow the street after the bridge turn left go straight avoid the camp with the guy with the great swords or continue straight until you reach the are where a big giant throws arrows. Stop and go to the lake are and now move to the beach side. Now go to the other side of the lake. You now have cleared all the first area and can go back to the Giant with the arrow to enter the castle. After the caste explore the lower part of the map. Do all this while you enter dungeons, kill monsters etc. Level Up only go and nothing else. When you finish with the first region you will be 30-40 level and ready to kill the first big boss. After you kill the first boss you can now start leveling other stats.

 

[Hero_Select]

It's a fantastic game that I enjoyed a lot but it definitely has some flaws that keep it from reaching the "GOAT" status for me.

- The combat still feels clunky, especially with anything ranged being absolutely terrible.
- That crafting system sucks
- Anytime something that requires precise platforming suuuuucks and doesn't feel fair
- Some bosses are way too overtuned and cheap
- I hope you like your early-game build because you're stuck with it until you beat the 2nd boss and have a larvel tear
- Difficult to experiment with builds if you're only doing one playthrough - which sucks when you find a really awesome looking giant sword but can't try it because you have to respec
- Co-op shouldn't be so restrictive
- Side-quests you get from NPCs aren't tracked and it's easy to forget what you're supposed to be doing without a log

Other things as well be these were the most immediate problems I had with the game. Still an amazing experience and I'd rate it a high 9/10

 

[lughnasadh123]

Maybe my lack of english but I dont really understand you..

Formula is good and can work in a open world. But there I lose you.. sorry =(

Just saying that being formulaic isn't bad when that's the thing that you're known for doing yet other games get criticized for doing just that.

At the end of the day he’s an artist and will want to take risk and try new forms of game design.

To some degree, sure. Largely with evironmental story telling that they were doing some of to begin with and has lot's of room for growth particularly with ND's conventional story telling. Something that's more of a complimentary fit rather than chucking it out for something that doesn't fit their strengths in shaping narratives.

 

[Mozzarella]

Dang, a lot of replies already, but i dont think its the greatest open world, i loved the game, for me its a 5/5 masterpiece, but honestly i dont feel like replaying it these days, i just lost the motivation, its too big for its own good, again...i love the game and i enjoyed it immensely, i put more than 250 hours in it, but i can't bring myself to do another run, it just feels tedious to clear the world, when it comes to replay value i prefer linear games, however in the defense of Elden Ring i got a lot of hours from it just by 2 playthroughs, so i think there was the tradeoff you lose few runs for the amount of bigger 1 run.

As for the open world itself, i think Bethesda Game Studios are the best at making engaging open world experience, after them comes Rockstar, then its up for grabs, Elden Ring, BOTW are well made open world too, Gothic is another option, Witcher 3 is for entirely different reason, but i wouldn't put any of those as a pioneer in open world, the only ones imo that can enter such discussion are Bethesda games, Rockstar and probably Breath of the Wild...Probably... even though Elden Ring is the better overall game.

 

[balls of snow]

It's a hot take for sure, but I don't think it's completely wrong-headed. ER might actually be a step back in some respects - it feels formulaic (cave, catacomb, mining tunnel) in a way that other Souls never really did (outside of Bloodborne's Chalice Dungeons). Finding that first mining cave in Limgrave was cool, finding another half a dozen scattered across the world, each tuned for a particular level of Smithing Stone (and an appropriate level of difficulty) felt artificial. All of these are well designed - expertly designed, in fact - but they undoubtedly feel artificial and this is one big problem in ER: the open world is immersive and believable but fairly empty; the dungeons are formulaic and artificial, but normally have cool fights, encounters and loot. The secret is to marry the two: a believable world that's interesting to explore and filled with cool encounters and loot that never seem repetitive - which is basically what every Souls game prior to ER was. As I said, it's a bit of a step back.

Oh god the grind to get smithing stones or the crystals to buy them. 10/10 would not recommend.

And you want them too unless you like spending 200 hours on the same spear you found in your first hour.

 

[22:22:22]

Yet it's an formula inserted into an open world. I'm done.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Yes. And my pasta in the best in the world and needs no improvement even though it's delicious.

One time some friends told me that my pasta was the best they ever tried. They were drunk, yes, and I basically used a ton of spices and bacon, true. Was it the best pasta in the whole fucking world? I'm sure it wasn't, but the important thing here is that I tried something a bit different and those who tried it really loved it.

And it's the same with Elden Ring. It's another open world, yes, it's the same gameplay as in all the souls games, true. But the way it's laid out, with 0 hand-holding, giving the player so much freedom when exploring and making said exploration so rewarding makes it the most fresh and fun open world I've ever played.

 

[22:22:22]

One time some friends told me that my pasta was the best they ever tried. They were drunk, yes, and I basically used a ton of spices and bacon, true. Was it the best pasta in the whole fucking world? I'm sure it wasn't, but the important thing here is that I tried something a bit different and those who tried it really loved it.

And it's the same with Elden Ring. It's another open world, yes, it's the same gameplay as in all the souls games, true. But the way it's laid out, with 0 hand-holding, giving the player so much freedom when exploring and making said exploration so rewarding makes it the most fresh and fun open world I've ever played.

Doenst mean it has it shortcomings. Which is to be expected

 

[Balducci30]

Wholeheartedly agree op. And I played all the other souls games - the open world adds another dimension to the whole thing that the others just can’t compete with

 

[TintoConCasera]

Doenst mean it has it shortcomings. Which is to be expected

To be fair most of my favorite games have tons of shortcomings.

But as you said earlier, it's cool to be able to recognize and criticize such shortcomings while still being able to enjoy all the good stuff that it has.

In fact, I think being able to do so allows you to be a very cool person. Blind fanboys are the worst.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

I gave up after 30 hours. Gave up in the sense in that I had my fill. I came to the realization while doing one of those mini dungeons.

"Why am I doing this?"

There was no story pushing me forward. No characters for me to care about. Just to get some consumable that I didn't care about or to get a weapon I couldn't use or won't switch to.

"Why am I going through this meat grinder?"

But yeah, I made my peace with souls games. Just not the genre for me. I will check out armored core. Maybe thats more up my alley.

 

[HYDE]

Possibly the most overrated game of all time imo.
Its innovation on the Souls formula's exaggerated tbh & it's major flaws somehow escaped actual criticism.
But hey whatever works with you man.

Image your favorite game is truly amazing, and without it’s own flaws…cringe worthy post.

 

[TintoConCasera]

I gave up after 30 hours. Gave up in the sense in that I had my fill. I came to the realization while doing one of those mini dungeons.

"Why am I doing this?"

There was no story pushing me forward. No characters for me to care about. Just to get some consumable that I didn't care about or to get a weapon I couldn't use or won't switch to.

"Why am I going through this meat grinder?"

But yeah, I made my peace with souls games. Just not the genre for me. I will check out armored core. Maybe thats more up my alley.

Have you tried Sekiro? One of their best games imo, and it has it's story too.

 

[Esca]

It isn't even fromsoft best game

 

[Danjin44]

Have you tried Sekiro? One of their best games imo, and it has it's story too.

Yup, compare to previous FROM games, Sekiro actually made me care about characters and care what’s going with actual plot and more importantly you controlling actual character rather than avatar.

 

[Tomeru]

The only souls game I stopped playing after platinum. Pvp was in it's shittiest form at launch and for several months later with all the exploits and non existent balance. I stopped playing and has no desire to boot it up. Never had that with ds123 or demons souls. If that is not a sign of being tired of the same formula, I dunno what it. Obviously it's a great game, infinitely more if you are new to souls, but I think veterans can understand me.

 

[gothmog]

I loved ER but Sekiro is still my favorite From game.

 

[MagnesD3]

Lore/Characters 10
Music 10
Combat 10
Bosses 10
Enemy Variety 10
Exploration/Reward System 10
Level Design 10
Graphics/Art Design 10
Sheer amount of Quality Content 10
Humor 10
Build Variety 10

Like there are definitely smaller complaints like that message asking you about the horse heal is really annoying and maybe dont re use a main boss like Godrick or Mohg since their coolness shouldnt be diminished but even the ones not listed here all and all are small.

It's like if you took linear game design quality but its open world though and it nails everything else too to boot.

 

[Rivet]

Possibly the most overrated game of all time imo.
Its innovation on the Souls formula's exaggerated tbh & it's major flaws somehow escaped actual criticism.
But hey whatever works with you man.

Agreed. I liked it a lot but it's overrated. It's basically a Souls game like we already played 10 times before, same stats, mostly the same mechanics, just in an open world (which is mostly a negative to me due to the story focus we lost in the process), with tons of mobs waiting to kill you in their place like in a theme park.

Add in tons of repetition in bosses and enemies, some overpowered spells (balance is terrible in this game), useless crafting, excessive duration... I don't see where the sense of exploration is either, at least in the second part, you barely find anything useful anymore. I got the big blue comet mage spell (forgot the name), then that was it, you basically instakill everything, if you still care. You know what you will find exploring : another mob waiting in his place, another useless loot you won't care about, like the tons of summons you won't use anyway, since you'll always summon the best one and there's no incentive not to do it every time. I stopped due to boredom, I didn't even finish it, unlike DS remake.

The game also has terrible technicals : game looks one generation and a half behind DS PS5 remake and stuttered like crazy on PC at launch, also ran bad on next gen consoles, which doesn't help.

It's still a very good game, but flawed and overrated. Hardly the second coming of Jesus, although I still enjoyed helping people kill the bosses again and again with coop. Bosses were mostly great. They're the highlights of the game to me.

 

[Raven117]

Yes, it has flaws as no game is perfect, but it is indeed an achievement and one of the best games ever made.

That said, I would love to see From shake up their formula. (I know, Armored Core is coming out). Id love for them to try their hand at a game more in the vein of like Witcher (I just mean real time story....towns with people....not EVERYTHING is there to kill you all the time everywhere).

 

[SlimySnake]

Some of the rare drops are too painful to base a new build around, you're better off in NG+ for that sort of thing. Especially getting the Magma Blades, that's one of the rarer ones - let alone two of them. If you know what you're doing you can get to that enemy within about 25 minutes of a new game, but the luck is too low to stand any real chance and the enemies are a higher area scaling than you have the gear for.

You're not wrong about delayed attacks, and it really takes some adjusting to. It's indicative of From's gameplay design progress, as they take something from a recent project and run with it. Dark Souls 2 was anti-[everything that worked in 1] to the point of annoyance. Rolls were nerfed, enemies got insane tracking to stop back stabs. When they made Bloodborne, all future games got faster. After they made Dark Souls 3 and Namless King kicked everyone's arse with his delayed attacks, Elden Ring had 400,000 delayed attacks. It's fine if you adapt, and the point is to stop people getting away with panic rolling, but it's almost a meta game From play with long time fans to catch them out and punish what works.

For better or worse, as time goes on it's emphasised the idea that the gameplay is sometimes less about acting and more about reacting. You wait for/create opportunities to safely get hits in. Then if you get good at that and don't play too safely, you can start to stagger enemies/bosses and be rewarded with bonus damage for your efforts.

I will recommend Strength builds to anyone coming into ER fresh, because not only do that absolutely encourage it (Great Axe, Axe talisman, Strength tear all in the first area) but bigger weapons do more for you than smaller ones will (stagger) while also discouraging lots of hits.

But the truth is that you're missing a lot because you're trying to take shortcuts. Of course things are hidden if your solution to everything is YouTube instead of playing the game, what do you expect? Volcano Manor's Rya gives you more and more dialogue that hints towards a hidden wall as you progress through the assignments. If you don't like the gameplay that's fine, but the game gives you so many more options than previous games did and they're all valid. Summon spirits, buff to fuck, find a nice powerful ash of war, craft sleep bombs. You get windows to attack when a summon is drawing aggro for you. Not all enemies have massive combos, you're salty because impatience is punished and it's clouded your judgement. I find it strange that you'll happily take some previous games, but ER isn't that far away from any of them so if you can play them you can definitely play this.

I didnt take shortcuts on my first try. Played it blind and had the same issues as everyone else here. The entire map is the same copy pasta. Reward for exploring are items you will never use. Enemy types are varied but none are fun to fight because of the dumb aggressive level design. And my favorite entry in the souls series is Bloodborne followed by Sekiro, both are fast paced games with insanely aggressive enemies. But the game's combat is tailored towards fast combat.

Just two years ago, I played and beat Demon Souls remake over 13 times. I beat Sekiro 5 times. Including several NG+ runs. I dont mind a challenge. I got gud. ER doesnt give me the incentive to get gud. It's just not fun to play. It's not rewarding to beat bosses. It's not rewarding to explore. It is way too long. I can handle being raped for 20 hours. Maybe 30 but eventually these games become easy if you level up enough and continue to find items that make you stronger because by hour 20-30 you are in the last third act of the game. Here, by hour 20 you are still half way in the first act and i dont want to be raped for another 100 hours. No thanks.

And yes, I have 50 strength. And am level 85. I routintely run into mob enemies that go on 5 combo attacks. Not all, but A LOT of enemies do this and it makes the game painfully boring.

 

[TheDraconian]

LMAO

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

It is the greatest game ever made and will push game design going forward. Hearing people like Neil druckman and the like using elden ring as an example of how to tel a story going forward is promising. Utalize what makes game design game design and leave cinematic to the film industry.

You hating cutscenes doesn’t mean that Miyazaki’s games have good storytelling. The storytelling is atrocious and if I were in GRRM’s shoes I would be offended at how useless my contribution ended up being. Some useless throwaway mentions about a bunch of people with annoyingly similar names, fingers, a cutscene every 10 hours with bad dialogue and animations from the PS2 era, and some text that describes how almost everything cool happened way before the game began but you can’t see any of it because FromSoftware likes to spend $10 of their budget on their “story” “telling.”

 

[manfestival]

Possibly the most overrated game of all time imo.
Its innovation on the Souls formula's exaggerated tbh & it's major flaws somehow escaped actual criticism.
But hey whatever works with you man.

I hit 70 hours on the game today and I am inclined to agree with you. The game has quite a few flaws and plays just as every other souls game(not a bad thing and also totally expected). I am enjoying this game tremendously but the exaggerations and hyperbole by the fans is just huge. HOWEVER, the world is absolutely amazing for how expansive it is. I don't care for open world much but this one is definitely top class.

 

[GenericUser]

Sorry, can't play it, it's too hard for me.

 

[Elder Legend]

Possibly the most overrated game of all time imo.
Its innovation on the Souls formula's exaggerated tbh & it's major flaws somehow escaped actual criticism.
But hey whatever works with you man.

I am so sorry you didn't make it past Soldier of Godrick.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I’m not sure about the greatest game of all time, but it’s definitely up there with the best and it’s one of my favorite games ever and I’ve played ALOT of games in my life. I do prefer the more linear, more structured approach of the other Souls games, but I think they handled the open world very well and the variety of the builds, weapons and armors is very impressive.

Primary flaws for me is, sometimes I feel the game can be overwhelmingly large and even confusing(cryptic side quests)at times, recycled dungeons, assets, bosses, etc and some of the bosses are WAY too aggressive which can be really difficult and frustrating to deal without summons imo. Besides that, excellent game. Will complete my second playthrough eventually. Can’t wait for a sequel.

 

[Midnight Bliss]

This is probably the most obnoxious post i’ve ever seen about these games. I will never play them. Maybe some day. It’s just pure cringe.

Why do I want to roll around for 5 hours doing rolling motions and rolling some more? Maybe i’ll get rags and a club? Maybe the npc will tell me the vague thing? Big whoop.

I think it’s great that the glasses guy who makes these games got to be famous after he got inspired by ICO but jeez. I can only imagine the type of person who plays these, and it’s the westerner. Yikes

 

[Dr. Claus]

This is probably the most obnoxious post i’ve ever seen about these games. I will never play them. Maybe some day. It’s just pure cringe.

Why do I want to roll around for 5 hours doing rolling motions and rolling some more? Maybe i’ll get rags and a club? Maybe the npc will tell me the vague thing? Big whoop.

I think it’s great that the glasses guy who makes these games got to be famous after he got inspired by ICO but jeez. I can only imagine the type of person who plays these, and it’s the westerner. Yikes

What is cringe is this post.

 

[Buggy Loop]

I gotta mostly agree with OP. 3/4 of the game is mind blowing while the remaining 1/4 is "good souls", i think it actually downgraded a bit in the end game sections that are more "souls" map.

The over world alone is peak gaming. I wish i could actually reset my memory and start playing this again as the first experience was. When i got to explore the underworld and seeing how huge it is and how many places it connects, my mind was simply blown.

This song when you reach the bottom of the elevator and start exploring :



I just couldn't believe it. Peak "HOLY SHIT" moment of gaming. Utterly creepy and eerie. Never quite seen an underworld map so big underneath an already gigantic map.





It's like a painting, so beautiful. Greatest art direction in a game, ever. RIP to the concept artist, Zhuoxin Ye, died before the game release and raving reviews.

Spoiler

I probably came close to a divorce after i got addicted to it and disapeared from family life for ~150h to 100% achievement it... worth it

 

[Bernardougf]

Level 55 right now, being playing for some hours already and I can say its the worst souls game after DS2 and problably I will play DS2 before I ever play this again

SOULS dosent need to be open world, it sucks.. and this game its just too easy, ELDEN RING was made to appeal to the general audience it seems

Its rpg bloat fest to the letter and not in a good way

Dont get me wrong, I am a big souls fans and ER is better that anything I played through last/this year until now, but Demons Souls remake is a much better game for the PS5 imho

I prefer a more tight souls experiencie with "fewer" things to do but more memorable and harder

well congrats to from, just hope its not their decent to mainstream. Because they are my favorite developer since the ps4 era.

 

[onnextflix5]

People said the same thing about botw when it came out, after a few years, yeh great game but it’s not really a zelda game, combat was good but got repetitive fast, I got tired of the repetitive formula well before the end of the game,

So Elden ring after a few years, everyone will see was not all that, but it was much better game then, horizon 1 and 2, man that was some overrated shit.

 

[Arsic]

You didn’t spell ghost of Tsushima correctly

 

[MagnesD3]

People said the same thing about botw when it came out, after a few years, yeh great game but it’s not really a zelda game, combat was good but got repetitive fast, I got tired of the repetitive formula well before the end of the game,

So Elden ring after a few years, everyone will see was not all that, but it was much better game then, horizon 1 and 2, man that was some overrated shit.

Botw actually was flawed from the get go (contrary to the actual overhype when it launched, I remember), while it had the best open world ever created until Elden Ring its weapon breaking system sucked and affected the reward system of the game alot making it worse and unlike Elden Ring Botw sacrificed something that is core to Zelda being as amazing as it is aka their GOD tier dungeons/dungeon items, shrines are cool but nowhere near as good as Twilight Princess/Ocarina level dungeons (not to mention it lost its Iconic bosses, incredible iconic dungeon ost's and an interesting story (although the champions were cool characters)). Elden Ring didnt really sacrifice anything that makes the from software games amazing.

Even with that being said BOTW is still probably the 3rd best Zelda game because its Open world/Exploration is that fantastic although Wind Waker is close to it in rank.

 

[Knightime_X]

Souls games are basically Dungeons and Dragons: Kazio edition.
Bosses share the same stigma as arcade games, but since they're not quarter munching, it's ok now for some reason.

The games are praised for things NES games did like 35+ years ago.

The world environments look interesting and combat is undeniably satisfactory.
Cool games, but not without their flaws.

 

[JayK47]

I am not a fan of the souls games or souls-like games. Yet this game seems a little interesting. I may pick it up on sale at some point. Or maybe Epic gives it to me for free.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Holy Hyperbole, Batman!

 

[Fess]

Wholeheartedly agree op. And I played all the other souls games - the open world adds another dimension to the whole thing that the others just can’t compete with

I haven’t played all but I’ll never understand why the open world is such an issue for some old Souls fans. If there was portals from Rountable Hold into Stormveil Castle and Haligtree and Volcano Manor etc it would essentially be Demon’s Souls 2. Fortunately FROM realized it would be more fun with a whole world to explore than just having a small hub area with portals.

 

[Nobody_Important]

I don't know if its the best open world game of all time because I still hand that to Witcher 3: Wild Hunt due to it's INSANE amount of depth, detail, character building, and quest design outside the main plotline.


BUT


Elden Ring as a whole is 100% in the running for the greatest game ever made to this point.

 

[Soodanim]

I didnt take shortcuts on my first try. Played it blind and had the same issues as everyone else here. The entire map is the same copy pasta. Reward for exploring are items you will never use. Enemy types are varied but none are fun to fight because of the dumb aggressive level design. And my favorite entry in the souls series is Bloodborne followed by Sekiro, both are fast paced games with insanely aggressive enemies. But the game's combat is tailored towards fast combat.

Just two years ago, I played and beat Demon Souls remake over 13 times. I beat Sekiro 5 times. Including several NG+ runs. I dont mind a challenge. I got gud. ER doesnt give me the incentive to get gud. It's just not fun to play. It's not rewarding to beat bosses. It's not rewarding to explore. It is way too long. I can handle being raped for 20 hours. Maybe 30 but eventually these games become easy if you level up enough and continue to find items that make you stronger because by hour 20-30 you are in the last third act of the game. Here, by hour 20 you are still half way in the first act and i dont want to be raped for another 100 hours. No thanks.

And yes, I have 50 strength. And am level 85. I routintely run into mob enemies that go on 5 combo attacks. Not all, but A LOT of enemies do this and it makes the game painfully boring.

There's a very valid argument for preferring closed world design, but everything else isn't the game's fault. It's yours.

ER gives you equipment you never use... as opposed to all the other From games that give you items you will never use as well? You can like and dislike whatever you want, but there's a distinct breakdown of logic when you blame the game for playing the same way as the others. No incentive to git gud? The games never give incentive, that's up to you. You're acting as if ER plays massively differently to the rest, and it doesn't. The only difference seems to be that you're mad at it and that's clouded your judgement. Pick up a shield until you've learned enemy attacks, just like every other game in the series. The rules never changed, you did.

 

[Aldric]

I haven’t played all but I’ll never understand why the open world is such an issue for some old Souls fans. If there was portals from Rountable Hold into Stormveil Castle and Haligtree and Volcano Manor etc it would essentially be Demon’s Souls 2. Fortunately FROM realized it would be more fun with a whole world to explore than just having a small hub area with portals.

It's an issue because it's essentially pointless and ends up being a gigantic waste of time. It's not fun, engaging or challenging to take your donkey goat horse and run across vast expanses of nothing or occasionally engage in terrible platforming with the goofy looking double jump. Overworld enemies are basically useless because they give very little XP, seldomly have anything of worth to drop and can very easily be dodged with the aforementioned horse to get to whatever loot you've identified as desirable after watching your favorite content creator's guide on Youtube. The horse even makes the pathetic attempts at environmental hazards trivial since you can just safely run across copypasted poison swamps with it. On top of that the world itself is completely devoid of life, being the usual desolate shithole populated by hostile zombies Miyazaki has been recycling for the best part of a decade which means that the amount of surprises you can find in it is surprisingly small, making rewards for exploration another likely reskinned boss fight, admitedly beautiful vistas, the fuckawful quests I refuse to believe anyone progressed without a guide and the legacy dungeons.

Even there though I feel like I'm getting crazy when I see people constantly parroting the notion that these dungeons are "the best levels FromSoft ever designed" because I feel like they're extremely disappointing and forgettable. I don't know if people even noticed but the reason the first Dark Souls world was so remarkable wasn't simply because the map was interconnected; the areas themselves had a very strong identity not simply because of their visuals but also because of their mechanics, challenges and gameplay scenarios: the most obvious example if of course Sen's Fortress, which is an endless succession of various traps, guarding access to the land of the gods. But Anor Londo itself had its own unique identity, with a focus on tightly navigating hazardous paths above bottomless pits. First you have to realize the way to progress is to use a flying buttress as a bridge, then you have to carefully walk on beams hanging from the ceiling while fighting enemies, and finally you have the infamous parts with the archers. All of this is brilliantly contextualized by the fact you're trespassing on a place you shouldn't be in and are therefore forced to use risky, thief like maneuvers. I could also cite the tomb of the giants where you can't see shit, the depths and their maze like structure or the crystal caves with their invisible paths but hopefully you got the point by now.

Elden Ring's legacy dungeons in comparison feel remarkably samey, with a part inside the building, a part on the roofs, a lower part etc. There's no really unique challenges or interesting narrative context for them. You enter them, and everyone wants to kill you, and you're going to roll through it till the end. They're beautiful yeah, but that's about it. And that to me defines Elden Ring and its reception. I feel like people are completely incapable of analyzing its game design, its mechanics, its systems, the way they're balanced and interact with eachother, because it they could they'd see it's close to being utter shit. They see the awe inspiring scale, the evocative art direction, the huge number of loot, bosses, mini dungeons and think that makes it a great game. But it doesn't. It's all style over substance and quantity over quality. It's like a caricature of what made the first Dark Souls interesting made for the kind of cretins who feel like they belong to an exclusive elite club because they press the roll button at the right time.

 

[Ogbert]

It’s odd. I loved what BoTW did for Zelda but absolutely hate what ER did to Dark Souls.

Running round a random map, hugging the walls for caves or identikit dungeons is not mysterious. It’s shit and boring.

The game picks up again the moment it falls back into traditional DS level design.

 

[Ogbert]

Botw actually was flawed from the get go (contrary to the actual overhype when it launched, I remember), while it had the best open world ever created until Elden Ring its weapon breaking system sucked and affected the reward system of the game alot making it worse and unlike Elden Ring Botw sacrificed something that is core to Zelda being as amazing as it is aka their GOD tier dungeons/dungeon items, shrines are cool but nowhere near as good as Twilight Princess/Ocarina level dungeons (not to mention it lost its Iconic bosses, incredible iconic dungeon ost's and an interesting story (although the champions were cool characters)). Elden Ring didnt really sacrifice anything that makes the from software games amazing.

Even with that being said BOTW is still probably the 3rd best Zelda game because its Open world/Exploration is that fantastic although Wind Waker is close to it in rank.

Disagree.

ER sacrifices the very thing that makes DS games magic - perfectly interconnected, complicated levels with worthwhile exploration and an insanely addictive loop based on perfectly pitched character progression and challenge.

ER is just random stuff on a random map. Playing it is an exercise in frustration, boredom and occasional challenge.

Some good boss fights though. And looks beautiful.