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I hope that western devs will be inspired by Elden Ring's success to make their open world games not suck

I think the thing that sets Elden ring apart is it's crazy amount of variety in literally everything. From enemies, weapons, locations etc etc. (At First anyway).

That just can't necessarily be replicated in other settings e.g. I'am not sure what Sucker Punch can take from Elden ring if they want to remain authentic to there setting. FROM have the advantage of there audience not demanding top of the range graphics either

RDR2 isn't a good example either. Firstly Rockstar has budget literally nobody can compete with and Secondly a lot of the "variety" in RDR2 is all just window dressing. All those unique events in the open world are cool at first but you can't interact with them in any meaningful way other than shooting and then it run's into the enemy variety problem again.

Death Stranding is a very unique take on the open world that I hope devs will be influenced by.
 
Wow, you're so angry. Chill out, lol.

No.

Turning off quest markers or compass completely in Odyssey wasn't possible as far as I can remember, plus it wouldn't work anyway because the game is designed around them.

No, AC: Valhalla is actually designed around the mode where quest and POI markers aren't all visible. This is the default mode that the game tries pretty hard to make you play. It basically says when you start the game that this is the way the game is intended to be played.

So again you aren't arguing facts. You're arguing from a place of ignorance, criticizing games you haven't played based on demonstrably false info.

Some quests will show you where to go or which NPC to talk to only with a quest marker because otherwise there are no other visual indicators within the game world and you can easily miss important stuff that way.

Lol, wut?!? How do quest markers make you miss stuff? There is nothing stopping you go off the beaten path and exploring while ignoring the quest marker, or turning off the tracking of the quest on the map.

Your argument is completely BS.

I didn't read the rest of your post because you clearly can't see past your own viewpoint

Lol, oh the irony.

I've pointed out all the absurd logical fallacies and inconsistency in your arguments and instead of offering a rational counter-argument, you're doubling down on an incoherent argument that ultimately boils down to, "I like ER and BoTW; therefore everything else is shit".... lol, ok mate

Okaay What GIF by ABC Network
 
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Drizzlehell

Banned
No.



No, AC: Valhalla is actually designed around the mode where quest and POI markers aren't all visible. This is the default mode that the game tries pretty hard to make you play. It basically says when you start the game that this is the way the game is intended to be played.

So again you aren't arguing facts. You're arguing from a place of ignorance, criticizing games you haven't played based on demonstrably false info.



Lol, wut?!? How do quest markers make you miss stuff? There is nothing stopping you go off the beaten path and exploring while ignoring the quest marker, or turning off the tracking of the quest on the map.

Your argument is completely BS.



Lol, oh the irony.

I've pointed out all the absurd logical fallacies and inconsistency in your arguments and instead of offering a rational counter-argument, you're doubling down on an incoherent argument that ultimately boils down to, "I like ER and BoTW; therefore everything else is shit".... lol, ok mate

Okaay What GIF by ABC Network
I hope you'll get the help you need.
 
Couldn't disagree more OP. Elden Ring had the worst open world I think I have ever played. I loved the core gameplay and legacy dungeons. As soon as I had to start exploring though.... Never wanted to consistently turn off a game so fast. It's just a boring wasteland of nothingness and copy and paste tombs/caves with some of the worst bosses that FROM has designed.

Then there is also the "quests lines." Too be fair, this is moreso all FROM games, not just ER. But can we like get a journal or something to keep track? Not asking you to dumb it down to tell me exactly where I have to go and do, but can I at least know that I started a side mission.

In terms of overall design for open world, I think we need more games like GoW Ragnarok and DS1. They tend to find a really good balance between open world and linear at the same time.
 

BbMajor7th

Member
Neither Breath of the Wild nor Elden Ring surpassed the open-world benchmark set by The Witcher 3. I love both of those games and think each surpasses TW3 in plenty of areas, but not in open-world design. The sense of discovery in TW3 and the immersiveness of the world blow BotW and Elden Ring out of the water.
 

BbMajor7th

Member
Sense of discover a question mark?
Original Commentary of the Year Award goes to the Thief1987.

You can turn those off if you're so inclined, but even if you don't, it's more about what you find at points of interest. Sometimes it's just a lowly bandit camp, but sometimes it's a hugely complex, narrative-driven, puzzle-laden quest that'll swallow an hour or two of your time. And there are literally dozens of quests like this throughout the world, and because it's just 'question mark' you don't know what you'll get until you get there.
 
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Sense of discover a question mark?

Why does a question mark on a map vs no question on a mark scare you so much? What difference does it make? You can ignore the map in Witcher 3 if you want or any other open world game compared to ER. Dont press M. Problem solved, no markers. You can even disable most markers on the maps. Now have fun finding amazing side quests and content in those open world games that Elden Ring doesnt have lmao. Jesus, when will people stop comparing ER open world map with the others.
 

Drizzlehell

Banned
Why does a question mark on a map vs no question on a mark scare you so much? What difference does it make? You can ignore the map in Witcher 3 if you want or any other open world game compared to ER. Dont press M. Problem solved, no markers. You can even disable most markers on the maps. Now have fun finding amazing side quests and content in those open world games that Elden Ring doesnt have lmao. Jesus, when will people stop comparing ER open world map with the others.
giphy.gif
 

Edellus

Member
I thoroughly enjoyed Assassin's Creed Odissey, Valhalla (still have to go through all the DLC) and I'm currently loving Horizon FW.

I play them on hard difficulty forward and I do minimize the UI as much as possible, yes. But that's it, really, for me. For the rest of the game, I take my take my time, explore at my leisure, enjoy the vistas. Only at the end, when I can't find stuff on my own and I'm interested in 100% the game, I turn UI helpers like icons and stuff.

I understand enjoying way more a complete discovery sort of feeling, like Elden Ring, but I can't understand thinking that unless you do something like that, it means it "sucks". Sometimes I wonder if people really do feel like that, or just like to throw hyperbole and over emphasise their negative feelings (that would be just the Internet tho).

I hope more games double down on the feeling of full discovery, yes. But that doesn't mean I also hope games that are more check-listy stop existing all together (do, in fact, always include an option to turn that off as much as possible , please)
 

MagnesD3

Member
Wow it seems quite arrogant to act like you're above everybody because nobody else can see "the truth". Game quality is subjective, just because you love a game doesn't make it objectively master class. And people liking or disliking Elden Ring has absolutely 0 to do with having "taste", or being "good enough" to understand why it's good. Your opinion is no more special than anybody else's
Well I for one believe in objective good Game Design, everyone has preferences but what Elden Ring brought to the table is Objectively amazing, it's one of the only Game's that I have had the thought this might be the best game ever made, its not perfect, no game is and Id argue there are more well rounded game's out there but what it does do well is just crazy good.

First off it's the best Exploration in gaming, the level design is phenomenal and varied, grounded enough to feel like it has a realistic logic to it but wild enough to feel magical/fantasy esk. It's like if you had linear level game design quality but its on a ridiculously huge scale. You constantly get lost in interesting things, in every direction, you'll go to do one interesting thing and stumble into 3 more. The game constantly rewards the player intuition with secrets that contain meaningful rewards that are actually useful 90% of the time. If the item isnt for your build you can respec to try it out later or have something exciting to look forward to use on another playthrough and at the very least it always has some sort of interesting lore to give you grander context into the mysterious world your exploring.

There are so many fantastical art design set pieces and vista's to find that will blow your mind, and even when it reuses assets it does such a good job to make them feel like they belong in that world naturally using them to communicate to the player there's a some sort of good reward here and maybe a secret or boss too. Ive seen complain about the Mine/Catacomb/Ruins's all being the same and they are crazy, almost all of them are varied gameplay wise in their layouts except for the type of architecture/structures used there with some wildly varying. They reuse assets incredibly well and make sure that its never boring so there is always a surprise coming your way with a cool reward at the end, (although I will give there are too many Ulcerated Tree Spirits but I believe in full that even this was understood by the developers, as they kind of meme it up with them at times).

Something that is at the Core of keeping the Exploration so damn interesting is it having the most refined Souls combat system to date with new tools like Torrent, Jump Attacks, Guard Attacks, Perfume etc. combined with a 140 unique enemy types to engage in that incredible system with. I could explain why Soulsbourne Combat is some of the best in Video game's but I feel it should be understood by this point (I can if I have to though) it's challenge forcing player engagement with even minor encounters at the risk of dying keeps you always in the adventure never feeling truly safe, this is very important when your playing a 100 plus hour experience and why most open world games get boring quickly. Also the variety of how you choose to play is vast, like there are so many different and interesting build/ways to play the game with many interesting options for each Stat Direction you would want to go in, I've beaten it 3 times and there is still a ton of tools I want to try to engage the game with. Another thing about the Soulsbourne game's is they are known for their challenge or difficulty, in many of those game's you can hit a wall that you are just expected to beat your head over again and again till you break through. Elden ring is also very challenging but with key differences similar to the brilliant design of Demon's Souls except on a larger scale if you hit wall you are never just stuck you can go somewhere else, you can go to several somewhere else's till you feel comfortable to come back and try again. Not to mention the crazy amount of difficulty sliders you can apply to yourself, you can use summons, co op or even npc summons or you can just use melee or magic/faith or some combination of all these to determine what kind of challenge you want in the game.

Then there is one critical thing this game doesnt give up that is so important when transitioning to Open World (something Breath of the Wild lost) was Legacy Dungeon's. If you didnt think the Level Design was fantastic already well it cranks it up a notch even further with arguably some of the best Dungeon's in the Soul Series, even more intricate level design, secrets and characters always ending with an incredible Boss Encounter, most boss's in the Overworld are more Mini Boss material but the Legacy Dungeon's boss are a cut above.

Besides all of that you have an incredible OST filled with both beautiful ambient tracks and bombastic iconic tracks. A world filled with memorable characters and incredibly deep interesting lore that is designed in a way to give you room to interpret it yourself. The game is also filled to brim with charm with just weird quirky enemy/world interactions or weapons like rolling electric goats or a big dumb finger flicking weapon hidden in the bottom of a hidden Chariot area, like what. Then there is just how huge the game truly is, it has a bonker's amount of content and area's to explore, all filled with meaningful content to the brim, I mean just looking how big would get was an adventure in itself. Then there is just the freedom of how you want to approach the game, I think there are only 8 required boss's to beat the game out of 112 unique one's There are just so many ways you can approach this game and they are almost all valid, your story of how your game unfolded wont ever be the same as your friends, it was wild talking about this with coworkers at work since we barely shared any of the same content even though we just started.

With all that said that just the tip of the Iceburg this game has so much I could go into what it does well for along time but Im lazy to type that much lol, yes the game has small issues like too many Ulcerated Tree Spirits or it could have a better system for scaling the overworld enemies with your level etc. but nothing that comes even close to comparing to the incredible work on display here. It's the only time ive ever thought to myself in my 25 plus years of gaming that this might be best game ever made, it's now firmly in my personal top 10. Also yes I dont think the majority of people will ever get why Elden Ring is objectively just that good because most people do not understand nor desire to understand the WHY to why they like anything really.
 
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I have 300+ hours into Elden Ring and the platinum, and I just found Patches for the first time last night.

If you think this open world is bland, you’re a f*** moron. I’d like to know what some of you consider a ‘good’ open world?

Elden Ring rewards you every where you go. There’s not a single wasted space for lore or exploration.
 

Arsic

Loves his juicy stink trail scent
Homogenizing design makes things bland. Look how many open world games we got after ass creed took off.

Currently no open world game has the “best formula” combining the others. If you got tears of the kingdom , elden ring, Witcher 3, red dead 2 and Skyrim rolled into one with the best parts of each ? That would be the pinnacle.

All of the above games excel in various aspects, and I think all are amazing. For me the best is tears currently.
 

Madflavor

Gold Member
Elden Ring, RDR2 and TotK are how to do Open World Games right imo. They don't try to ape off each other. They all try to do their own thing in their approach to Open World design.

The Ubisoft approach is the homogenized boring and uninspired type of crap that makes the Open World genre feel tiresome and played out. But every once in a while we get something that's a cut above the rest. And every time you've got people going "Omg it's so amazing. How are they ever gonna top this?"

You don't top it. You just do you own thing.
 
Elden Ring, RDR2 and TotK are how to do Open World Games right imo. They don't try to ape off each other. They all try to do their own thing in their approach to Open World design.

The Ubisoft approach is the homogenized boring and uninspired type of crap that makes the Open World genre feel tiresome and played out. But every once in a while we get something that's a cut above the rest. And every time you've got people going "Omg it's so amazing. How are they ever gonna top this?"

You don't top it. You just do you own thing.
I’d add Bethesda games to this but I basically agree their uniqueness is what makes them so good
 

Madflavor

Gold Member
I’d add Bethesda games to this but I basically agree their uniqueness is what makes them so good

Yeah I'm just holding off on that until we see how Starfield does. Skyrim was the last game Bethesda made that was truly great, but that was 12 years ago. If you entered first grade when Skyrim came out, you'd be graduating by now.
 
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Yeah I'm just holding off on that until we see how Starfield does. Skyrim was the last game Bethesda made that was truly great, but that was 12 years ago. If you entered first grade when Skyrim came out, you'd be graduating by now.
Yeah I mean Im counting Skyrim/oblivion/morrowind basically vs other open worlds. They could fuck up starfield but I still feel like those games will always be unique open worlds in their own way
 

Allandor

Member
Elden Ring is a good game but Imho a bad example for an open world game. The world is big, filled with enemies and a handful of NPCs. It is also hard to follow any questline without a guide and the quests are more or less almost all the same .. "go there kill that" ...
As much as I like the game this part is not really good. It is more the combination of the features of the game that makes it feel good (like the atmosphere).
One of the many flaws such open world games have, enemies respawn. Yes in case of elden Ring only if you "save" your progress and heal yourself on the fire. More games should do this like gothic/risen games. If an enemy is beaten it stays that way until something else happens (chapter change) or other enemies expand there where now is more space for them.
 

Dr. Claus

Banned
Elden Ring is a good game but Imho a bad example for an open world game. The world is big, filled with enemies and a handful of NPCs. It is also hard to follow any questline without a guide and the quests are more or less almost all the same .. "go there kill that" ...
As much as I like the game this part is not really good. It is more the combination of the features of the game that makes it feel good (like the atmosphere).
One of the many flaws such open world games have, enemies respawn. Yes in case of elden Ring only if you "save" your progress and heal yourself on the fire. More games should do this like gothic/risen games. If an enemy is beaten it stays that way until something else happens (chapter change) or other enemies expand there where now is more space for them.

You can easily follow every quest line with zero guides. I did all of them, 100% the game, and got the platinum in a single run. All it took was downloading my saved file from the cloud that was set right before I finished the game.

The quests are very simple and quite literally tell you exactly what you need to do, you just have to pay attention and not expect a big glowing mark on your map.

The difference between Gothic/Risen is that those worlds are far, far, *far* smaller than Elden Ring. Imagine Elden Ring's massive world, completely devoid of any enemies. It would feel lifeless and empty.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
I'm hoping for Western devs to find the right balance between the two:
  • Elden Ring's open world is too sandboxy for me.
  • Assassin's Creed's open world is too full of markers.
A right balance between the two would be amazing. I don't know what form that would take, however.
 
The hate for Elden ring is ridiculous. People not liking the open world is mind blowing to me - clearly you’re doing something wrong if you think it’s an actual detriment to the “souls” core. The open world literally opens the thing up in ways that were not possible in other souls games, dont wanna fight through a particular path? You don’t have to - there’s a whole bunch of other stuff you can do - and the exploration is amazing you come across tons of cool new enemies/weapons/locations that are largely distinct no matter where you go
 

Griffon

Member
I'd rather have dark souls type world design than whatever Elden Ring did.

Anyway BotW has been around for quite a while yet nobody truly followed suit. I don't expect AAA westerners to understand the differences.
 

yurinka

Member
There's a reason why disabling the HUD in most open world games suddenly makes them 10 times more fun to play but the problem is that most of those game's design is tied to their quest markers and map icons. To the point where some of them become needlessly obtuse if you disable those HUD elements. It's an incredibly lazy design and more western devs should start copying the philosophy of Elden Ring.
I'd say that in most -if not all- modern open world games you can disable them, or at least most.

What should they copy exactly?

I didn't play Elden Ring, but sounds that like in the case of Breath of the Wild, which according to some revolutionizes open world games, it really doesn't add anything new: it only mixes stuff from other very successful games, as everybody does.
 
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MagnesD3

Member
I'd say that in most -if not all- modern open world games you can disable them, or at least most.

What should they copy exactly?

I didn't play Elden Ring, but sounds that like in the case of Breath of the Wild, which according to some revolutionizes open world games, it really doesn't add anything new: it only mixes stuff from other very successful games, as everybody does.
It didn't do anything new, what it did was do almost everything really good in video games at a "Masterclass" level.
 
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Cyberpunkd

Member
Exactly this. A smartly designed game would put some visual queues to get the player's attention more organically to the things they need to pay attention to in order to progress, but that just takes too much time and effort. Better to just slap a quest marker on the screen and call it a day.
Not really - the danger is the user "missing out" on the content since they didn't get the clues. Then they will complain the game is too "vague". From Software games - you now what you are getting into, but imagine Ubisoft suddenly doing things like that in AC, people would riot.
 

yurinka

Member
It didn't do anything new, what it did was do almost everything really good in video games at a "Masterclass" level.
Not sure about Elden Ring because I didn't play it, but the previous ones didn't do everything at a 'masterclass level':
  • The narrative in the Souls always has been confuse, weird and difficult to understand, did they fix it in Elden Ring?
  • The difficulty and learning curves in the previous ones was a wall instead for new players at the start of the game, did they fix it in Elden Ring?
  • The performance never has been great in the previous ones, did they fix it in Elden Ring?
  • In previous games many things weren't properly explained by the game so you had to learn them going to internet guides or asking other players, did they fix it in Elden Ring?
I think that as happens with Nintendo, people is really religious and forgiving with Miyazaki games ignoring all their flaws in many areas placing there excuses, in areas where people is pretty harsh when other games do the same.

Same goes with the 'the other ones should learn from them', I think there's little to nothing to learn from them other than some tweak or detail in this or that area, since they didn't add nothing new.
 
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I have 300+ hours into Elden Ring and the platinum, and I just found Patches for the first time last night.

If you think this open world is bland, you’re a f*** moron. I’d like to know what some of you consider a ‘good’ open world?

Elden Ring rewards you every where you go. There’s not a single wasted space for lore or exploration.
This is exactly where Elden Ring gets it right. Playing a Souls game is always surprising and rewarding the same way gaming was rewarding when we were very young. Playing Elden Ring reminds me when I was playing Zelda on NES / SNES (which were quite open world by design and rewarded exploration). Also those games already had a map so exploration with rewarding content can be done even with a map.
 
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Spaceman292

Banned
Not sure about Elden Ring because I didn't play it, but the previous ones didn't do everything at a 'masterclass level':
  • The narrative in the Souls always has been confuse, weird and difficult to understand, did they fix it in Elden Ring?
  • The difficulty and learning curves in the previous ones was a wall instead for new players at the start of the game, did they fix it in Elden Ring?
  • The performance never has been great in the previous ones, did they fix it in Elden Ring?
  • In previous games many things weren't properly explained by the game so you had to learn them going to internet guides or asking other players, did they fix it in Elden Ring?
I think that as happens with Nintendo, people is really religious and forgiving with Miyazaki games ignoring all their flaws in many areas placing there excuses, in areas where people is pretty harsh when other games do the same.

Same goes with the 'the other ones should learn from them', I think there's little to nothing to learn from them other than some tweak or detail in this or that area, since they didn't add nothing new.
Those aren't problems, they're design choices.

Except yeah the performance wasn't great.
 

MagnesD3

Member
Not sure about Elden Ring because I didn't play it, but the previous ones didn't do everything at a 'masterclass level':
  • The narrative in the Souls always has been confuse, weird and difficult to understand, did they fix it in Elden Ring?
  • The difficulty and learning curves in the previous ones was a wall instead for new players at the start of the game, did they fix it in Elden Ring?
  • The performance never has been great in the previous ones, did they fix it in Elden Ring?
  • In previous games many things weren't properly explained by the game so you had to learn them going to internet guides or asking other players, did they fix it in Elden Ring?
I think that as happens with Nintendo, people is really religious and forgiving with Miyazaki games ignoring all their flaws in many areas placing there excuses, in areas where people is pretty harsh when other games do the same.

Same goes with the 'the other ones should learn from them', I think there's little to nothing to learn from them other than some tweak or detail in this or that area, since they didn't add nothing new.
The story is the best it's ever been (its one of my favorite stories in gaming) yes still feeds it to you it mostly through the environment, npcs and items but unlike the other games you can tell there was a real story (by George RR) underneath, there are so many interesting layers and details in it everytime I got a new clothing item it would be a new lore treat

That's not a thing to fix.. but I will say that they absolutely fixed aloylt of frustration similar to how demons souls does due to the nature of the open world, in this game if you hit a wall of frustration your struggling with just try somewhere else there is a ton of interesting things to do.

The performance was fine for me on ps5 but tbh that's not what I think of when I think the best part of a video game, this matters very little to me, only in so far that it becomes a problem.

The game hands you alot more information but there are still a ton of secrets and hidden elements, it's not really a signifcant issue.

DudeAlso on the fanboy part I somewhat agree but that isnt the case here, the from software lineup consists of all great games but only 2 are top 10 material for me, Demons Souls and Elden Ring. With that being said none of these games are untouchable from complaints small or larger ones with some of them.
 

Thief1987

Member
and the exploration is amazing you come across tons of cool new enemies/weapons/locations that are largely distinct no matter where you go
Agree. Cave #83. Amazing! Catacomb #56. Mesmerising! Evergaol #32. Heavenly! Everyone should take inspiration from this game, especially ubisoft as their games are too light on the meaningful content like this.
have 300+ hours into Elden Ring and the platinum, and I just found Patches for the first time last night.

If you think this open world is bland, you’re a f*** moron. I’d like to know what some of you consider a ‘good’ open world?

Elden Ring rewards you every where you go. There’s not a single wasted space for lore or exploration.



What reward you received in 50 previous randomly generated caves before you found Patches in 51st?
 
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Madflavor

Gold Member
Agree. Cave #83. Amazing! Catacomb #56. Mesmerising! Evergaol #32. Heavenly! Everyone should take inspiration from this game, especially ubisoft as their games are too light on the meaningful content like this.

What reward you received in 50 previous randomly generated caves before you found Patches in 51st?

There are 51 optional mini-dungeons in Elden Ring total. These range from Caves, Catacombs, Tunnels, Grottos, and Hero's Graves. So that's 5 mini dungeon types each with their own aesthetic and this is excluding Evergaol's which are just boss fights. So already that's more variety than the Shrines in BotW and TotK that all look the same. Then there's the Legacy Dungeons which are huge sprawling areas/dungeons that are completely optional. In fact there's more optional Legacy Dungeons/Areas than there are for the main path. The rewards yielding for exploration in Elden Ring include:

1. Weapons
2. Armor
3. Spells
4. Talismans
5. Bosses
6. Discovering Mini dungeons
7. Discovering Legacy dungeons
8. Flask upgrades
9. Crafting material

There's so much to discover and to easily miss in Elden Ring, that yes, for some people who've played the game a ton, it's exciting when you come across something you haven't discovered before.
 
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MagnesD3

Member
Agree. Cave #83. Amazing! Catacomb #56. Mesmerising! Evergaol #32. Heavenly! Everyone should take inspiration from this game, especially ubisoft as their games are too light on the meaningful content like this.






What reward you received in 50 previous randomly generated caves before you found Patches in 51st?
If you think those side areas were all the same you either didn't play the game, have a bad memory or don't understand what variety is. There was a ton of interesting designs in those things (bat cave, hidden dual boss cave, jail cave, rot knight plume, infinte ghost battle, trick maze, teleport maze, etc)I did all of them twice so I would know.

I think what your looking for is chalice dungeons..
 
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RoboFu

One of the green rats
Holy hyperbole Batman
I don’t think you know what hyperbole means.

And no it’s not. It’s the same things. Minor elder trees, fast travel points, churches, caves, ever goals, ruins, troll pulling mobs, wandering zombie mobs .. ect. It’s repeating instances. it’s the same as every open world game of its type.
 
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