never said it was just japan lolOut of billions on the surface of the Earth, only someone from Japan is capable of such feats.
Knock off the idolatry.
All very valid.Most Souls players loved Elden Ring i think. Most people here played the others games. Obviously it's what you like about it that conditions the use of the word "diluted" where other people might be calling that "adding things".
Because personally i really like worldbuilding and the feeling of being lost in something unfathomable and in that sense if Dark Souls, with all its great (and very bad, let's not forget about it) segments , is some kind of olympic pool Elden Ring is an ocean. It doesn't mean that at some point you will not understand how the game works design wise, because obviously, things are going to repeat themselves there is no question about that, this is how the world's design give context to all of this that keep the game fascinating until the end i think.
The talent of From Software can express itself in many different ways. I think that even in the recycled content it sometimes does, the small dungeons for example, from a template of 4 different kind of dungeons have a whole variety of little design ideas and gain in complexity the more you advance, and there are not that many. I think it was well managed design wise.
The problem with western open worlds are simplistic mechanics and the menu-fication of it all.Elden ring suffered from a lot of the same issues Western open world games do,i dont know why people act like it solved everything,game is such a slog near the end and filled with a lot of copy-paste bosses.
Yeah most humans have no clue why something is good or not, 0 taste...
Elden Ring is master class game design and most will never get why.
this but unironically. don't give a shit about all the graphics obsessed casuals and reuse what works. remaking your engine from the ground up especially when it isn't even next gen yet is just wasting precious resources.Reusing animations and assets from all your previous games is the true inspiration western devs should take to make their open world games not suck.
What are examples of games that have that depth? I find open world an unnecessary distraction. I enjoy the concept of a giant living world that my character exists in, but most implementations suck.This. It’s a great game but not the Revolution of open world design we were hoping for. Still too bloated, not enough depth for my taste.
definitely agree there. I hope next gow game is just more of the crater area.If thers an open world section that needs to serve as inpiration to more open worlds, then its "The Crater" area from GoW Ragnarok. That area was a showcase of what great level design means. Bugthesda games have been doing great worlds to explore too with the way you interact with every object and NPC. As mentioned above, Tchia is doing pretty cool stuff with its open world too, also with great level of interation with every object and a cool take tranfering ur soul to any animal changing the way you traverse the map, by being a bird to reach high points of the map faster, a dolphin to swim at high speeds, etc.
Taking bits and pieces from all these games, and some others like BOTW, and u get an open world game, much superior than anything Elden Ring had to offer.
The map is incredibly well designed. Almost from every spot you can see where there’s something for the player to discover and where the focus point of that area is.What makes Elden Ring open world special? It's just Dark Souls zones stuck together on a big map with a ton of nothing to see in between those main areas such as the Academy. Also, open world design sucks.
Give me a map like Dark Souls had, or Deus Ex games have or Prey has or God of War has and I'll be happy. I mean look at the recent linear games released, people are all over them because the open-world fatigue is real and that includes ER as well.
Ehh even elden rings open world is the same repeated set points over and over with a few scattered mobs that are somewhat unique.
It just sounds like you prefer to be led through narrower, more compact levels rather than exploring a big open map. But that doesn't mean that it's "bloated" or that there's nothing going on outside of castles or dungeons. Because there's plenty of stuff to discover in the open areas that wouldn't even be possible to include in more confined spaces, and adventuring in this huge land full of mysteries feels so much more epic than dragging your feet through yet another sewer or ruined castle.Sure, it tells you what the player values in From Games.
Cumulatively, I’ve beaten DeS, DS and DS3 tens of times. I absolutely adore their intricately designed dungeons and the ability to replay with different builds. Undead Burgh is, in my opinion, the greatest single player zone ever designed in video games.
ER was good fun for about 15 hours. Randomly running around the map, hugging the edge to maybe find a cave where one of the same 4 bosses is waiting, is not an incredible journey of discovery. It’s bloat.
The game diluted what makes From games so amazing.
So just like any other open world? LolAlmost from every spot you can see where there’s something for the player to discover
While western open worlds don’t even have that in mind, because they have the dreaded floating waypoint icons in front of you. Telling you every step of the way where to go.
What exactly do you mean by this? Explain it specifically.
Did you even read my comment? If so, you didn’t understand it.So just like any other open world? Lol
Uhm yes they do? You can also disable most UI in most western open worlds. If you cant then again, its a gameplay decision because noones going to spend 300 hours doing everything on the map without proper UI. Elden Ring's open world serves no purpose compared to other open-world games. Moreover Elden Ring did not need to be open-world at all and you can clearly see it suffers a lot for it, with so many copy pasted dungeons, reused and repated bosses over and over and other open-world problematic gimmicks.
Thats why you're struggling with Horizon. Elden Ring open world is not better, it's just different and its gameplay does not rely on it unlike all the other open world games. Jesus you people talk as if you never played games before. Cmon.
Perhaps I am talking bullshit, but having played video games for the best part of four decades, I have a good sense of video game design and the difficult art of what makes a compelling game.It just sounds like you prefer to be led through narrower, more compact levels rather than exploring a big open map. But that doesn't mean that it's "bloated" or that there's nothing going on outside of castles or dungeons. Because there's plenty of stuff to discover in the open areas that wouldn't even be possible to include in more confined spaces, and adventuring in this huge land full of mysteries feels so much more epic than dragging your feet through yet another sewer or ruined castle.
It's okay if you prefer a more compact design of the earlier games but what you're saying about the open world in Elden Ring is complete bullshit.
Once again, a post that misses the point of what's being discussed here.Generalizing "western games" as one single homogenous category of open-world games is both disingenuous and categorically incorrect, to the extent that it invalidates any point attempting to be made.
There are many different types of the western-developed open world game and the two cited early in the video, Horizon and AC: Valhalla both play so differently that I'm just going to go ahead and say that this goon who made this video didn't even play these games at all.
Then you have games like Skyrim, Fallout, The Witcher 3, and Cyberpunk.... not to mention fucking juggernauts like RDR2 and GTAV.
I'm sorry, I don't give a fuck how much you jizz yourself over ER and BoTW... RDR2 and GTAV are far faaaar better games in virtually every respect. But they're so different open-world games that it's like trying to compare apples to oranges.
That brings me to the crux of this issue... fucking idiots like the guy in the video in the OP who wholly fail to realize that the "open world" is not a fucking gaming genre. It's a type of level design. You can have "open world" action games, "open world" RPGs, "open world" adventure games, and "open world" puzzle games... heck even open-world hentai dating sims.
If you want to make an argument about open-world game design, you have to qualify it within a certain actual fucking game genre. As "open world" games as a terminology is so broad and diverse as to be wholly and entirely fucking meaningless. You have to make arguments about the actual level design in the context of the particular genre being discussed, as a good open-world level design for an RPG =/= a good open-world game design for an action game or puzzler.
ER and BoTW aren't some magical one-size fits all solution that every game should copy. And even if they did, then wouldn't all open-world games now really play the same, which would actualize the complaint about homogeneity in game world design?
So... the very things you're advocating for will effectuate the very thing you're bitching about.... funny that.
I've been eating pizza for almot 3 decades, doesn't mean I know what it takes to make one that's good, or that my opinion on certain pizza types is somehow more valid than other people's.Perhaps I am talking bullshit, but having played video games for the best part of four decades, I have a good sense of video game design and the difficult art of what makes a compelling game.
If this is your soul point (pun intended), then I’m not sure why you needed the antagonistic tone in the OP.Once again, a post that misses the point of what's being discussed here.
It's not about how the specific features are designed such as combat or traversal. It's not even about the contents of the open world map, which people often criticize about ER because it repeats certain dungeons or whatever. It is primarily about how western-developed OW games have a tendency to completely cover the map screen with icons that serve as a laundry list of things to do in order to get the 100% completion, even though it rarely serves any particular purpose other than giving the player an illusion that there's "CONTENT" in the game and they somehow get value out of their purchase by having to spend 250 hours plowing through it.
It's also about complete lack of faith in player's ability to figure out what to do next, and constantly dragging us along with omnipresent quest markers, quest trackers, compass widgets, and other shit like that. I can still remember having to figure out where I need to go in Morrowind by checking the name of the town in my journal and then following a road by reading literal road signs. The only other western game that actually had something like that in recent memory was Kingdom Come: Deliverance, while almost every other game simply pointed me in the right direction with a map marker and a big glowing compass arrow.
There's just no sense of discovery in modern open world games, and Elden Ring, even though it's not a perfect game by any stretch, at least shows enough restraint and trust in the player to allow us to discover stuff on our own without being blatantly told where to go all the time. That's what this thread, and the video, is about.
You’d know when the pizza was burned though.I've been eating pizza for almot 3 decades, doesn't mean I know what it takes to make one that's good, or that my opinion on certain pizza types is somehow more valid than other people's.
antagonistic tone in the OP.
I think this analogy makes me wanna order pizza already.You’d know when the pizza was burned though.
And if someone came along and said ‘no, the charcoal crisp is actually how they cook it in Napoli’, you’d tell them to take it back and bring you a new one.
And one that wasn’t burned, regardless of what the good people of Napoli think.
Well, yeah, no one's arguing that it was the first one to do it. The problem is that it's a rare exception rather than rule nowadays.I love Elden Ring, but its not the first open world games to do the no handholding thing, i would argue Morrowind open world is better too.